View Full Version : ACOG TA33H_G or Accupoint TR24
Rickenbacker53
06-21-09, 11:29
ACOG TA33H_G or Accupoint TR24
I have boiled it down to these 2 optics. I have never posted here before ..so first off hi everyone
Just would like some opinions and also where the best place to get one ordered. I noticed from looking there are a wide range of pricing . Thanks for the help and input
Going to be using on a Smith AR with Installed Larue 7Inch Rail and Fug- Magpul CTR 16"
These are the 2 optics I have nailed it down to myself, so i can't be of much help.
One thing I don't know if you have considered or not is if a fixed front sight is used, some here have reported seeing a "shadow" with the TR24, other's are fine with it.
Good luck, Terry.
roberto232
06-21-09, 16:40
Can't really help with the choice, I went with EOTech......but I will say I purchased mine off ebay for a great price.....
I own similar optics. An Accupoint TR21 amber triangle and a TA33R8.
Short answer: put the TA33 on your AR. Here is why...
While the Accupoint gives you 1-4 variable magnification it has no ranging ability. So past point blank range all it shows you is a slightly better view of what you can't hit.
My Accupoint is on my .308 bolt action deer rifle.
Advantages:
Shooting with both eyes open the Bidon aiming concept works well. On 1.25X, I took a successful shot at deer running flat out quartering away(it had been shot at, unsuccessfully, 4 times by another hunter) and I hit perfectly at 60 m. Believe me, it was the scope not me that did it. My Longest shot was 200 ish m.
This is a great scope in low light. Most deer I have taken were at first or last light and that big amber triangle is real easy to see against game right down to pitch black.
Try this experiment: put up a full size deer target with the white area around the image cut away. Observe it in late twilight through a regular scope and an Aimpoint. once it is dark enough you will still be able to see the deer through the cross hair scope but it will be extremely difficult to tell where on the dark deer the dark cross hairs intersect. The Aimpoint will show you where the round will hit long after a regular scope looses the ability.
Disadvantages: No ranging ability, reticule design makes holdover very difficult. I have no intention of shooting beyond 300 m. with this rifle. The Accupoint is more complex and delicate compared to the TA33.
My TA33R8 in a LaRue QD mount is on my POF 16" upper/LMT Defender Lower combo.
Shooting with both eyes open my impressions are:
In close: the red chevron is very fast (not Aimpoint fast but still fast). I get a flash sight picture and "bang"! Your reticule will be at least as fast. Some think that the "true 1X" of the TR 24 would give an advantage in close over a TA33. It won't. Both are magnifying optics both will distort and require a good cheek weld due to parallax. An Aimpoint will beat them both out to about 15 m.
Beyond Point Blank: Here is where the TA33 has the advantage. Using decent ammo, I can keep a 30 round magazine on a full size silhouette's torso at 600 m from prone supported.
With my back turned, I had a friend of mine set up 10 full size targets (the kind that are life like pictures of bad guys) randomly at unknown distances at a rifle range from 50 to 600 m. Using the ranging features of the TA33 I was able to successfully engage all targets and hit each one on the first shot. Just match the cross bar to the target's shoulder width and shoot.
The TA33 is about as bomb proof a scope as you can find.
Disadvantages: ACOG can be tricky to zero, but once set it stays set.
Rickenbacker53
06-22-09, 07:20
I own similar optics. An Accupoint TR21 amber triangle and a TA33R8.
Short answer: put the TA33 on your AR. Here is why...
While the Accupoint gives you 1-4 variable magnification it has no ranging ability. So past point blank range all it shows you is a slightly better view of what you can't hit.
My Accupoint is on my .308 bolt action deer rifle.
Advantages:
Shooting with both eyes open the Bidon aiming concept works well. On 1.25X, I took a successful shot at deer running flat out quartering away(it had been shot at, unsuccessfully, 4 times by another hunter) and I hit perfectly at 60 m. Believe me, it was the scope not me that did it. My Longest shot was 200 ish m.
This is a great scope in low light. Most deer I have taken were at first or last light and that big amber triangle is real easy to see against game right down to pitch black.
Try this experiment: put up a full size deer target with the white area around the image cut away. Observe it in late twilight through a regular scope and an Aimpoint. once it is dark enough you will still be able to see the deer through the cross hair scope but it will be extremely difficult to tell where on the dark deer the dark cross hairs intersect. The Aimpoint will show you where the round will hit long after a regular scope looses the ability.
Disadvantages: No ranging ability, reticule design makes holdover very difficult. I have no intention of shooting beyond 300 m. with this rifle. The Accupoint is more complex and delicate compared to the TA33.
My TA33R8 in a LaRue QD mount is on my POF 16" upper/LMT Defender Lower combo.
Shooting with both eyes open my impressions are:
In close: the red chevron is very fast (not Aimpoint fast but still fast). I get a flash sight picture and "bang"! Your reticule will be at least as fast. Some think that the "true 1X" of the TR 24 would give an advantage in close over a TA33. It won't. Both are magnifying optics both will distort and require a good cheek weld due to parallax. An Aimpoint will beat them both out to about 15 m.
Beyond Point Blank: Here is where the TA33 has the advantage. Using decent ammo, I can keep a 30 round magazine on a full size silhouette's torso at 600 m from prone supported.
With my back turned, I had a friend of mine set up 10 full size targets (the kind that are life like pictures of bad guys) randomly at unknown distances at a rifle range from 50 to 600 m. Using the ranging features of the TA33 I was able to successfully engage all targets and hit each one on the first shot. Just match the cross bar to the target's shoulder width and shoot.
The TA33 is about as bomb proof a scope as you can find.
Disadvantages: ACOG can be tricky to zero, but once set it stays set. Steve, I appreciate the in depth comment. It was very helpful . For the most part I will be shooting at 50 Meters to 250. Rarely past 250 and even more rarely inside 50. Quite Frankly from 15 m and closer , I normally practice with Iron sights.
If I am reading what you answered correctly: Your saying I can use the TA33 at 15-40 Meters and it will be fast. Not as Fast as an Aimpoint but fast. Anything farther away than that I will blow the Aimpoint away..
What are your thoughts on the TA33H opposed to the 8 ..The 8 seems more readly available. Based on an average cost of $850.00 ..Larue at 917.00 is reasonable as long as they send the stock mount and their mount with your purchase. How nice is Larue Mount compared to the stock mount?
I have used my TA33 at 10 m. and out to 600 m. It works you just use it differently: In close quick reaction drills I just put the red "blob" center mass and fire. yes, its still a chevron and in focus but I don't take the time to use it as more than a red dot. depending on what I am practicing, I can do that out to 50 m or so. From about 25 m out you can also start using the tip of the chevron or the red tip of the vertical bar as more precise aim points. The instruction manual will tell you what parts of the reticule will line up with different distances. and you can fine tune that with your own ammo selection.
You can't use iron sights with any magnifying optic as you can't see the front sight through the scope. You need a folding rear sight. Folding front is optional, your choice.
The TA33 will never be faster than an Aimpoint type sight at any distance. It just allows more precision as you get past 50 m and has a Bullet Drop Compensator/ranging reticule for the longer distances.
For the ranges you are talking about (300 m max) an Aimpoint would be the better choice however, if you want to keep the option of hitting out to 600 with only a slight trade off in speed I recomend the ACOG. 90% of my shooting is sub 300 m. But, every now and then I get to go to my friends club where they have a 600 m. rifle range. Its comforting to know that from 10 to 600 m. if I can see it I can hit it.
I have not used the H model but the reticule seems very nice in that it is more open for 100 to 300 m use.
The chevron reticule can be a bit thick and covers smaller targets in that range and the first 3 aimpoints are crowded into it. When zeroed at 100 m the first 3 impact/aim points are:
100m= top of triangle tip
200m= underside of triangle tip
300m= iluminated tip of vertical bar
I think that for your purposes the red or amber chevron would serve you well. The H reticule is just out so it will sell at a premium (when available) In the meantime the chevron versions will be discounted even though the only difference is the shape of the reticule. If you can find a TA338 for around $600ish buy it.
I love the LaRue mount! Very clean, simple and bombproof. I can take it off and put it back on with no tools with perfect return to zero. It is also lighter, more streamlined and more compact than the stock mount. I ordered the LaRue separately and then sold my original mount on Gunbroker for about $50.
A few things to consider: The TA33 comes in the "8" version(calibrated for 5.56 NATO) and the "9" version (calibrated for 7.62 NATO). for your use you need the "8"
The reticule color is a real personal thing. Get to a store that has Trijicon products in both colors, It does not have to be the same ACOG or even an ACOG. compare amber and red and pick the one you like best. For some who have red/green colorblindness issues the red chevron does not seem bright enough Cabelas /Bass Pro usually has both colors of Accupoints.
Enjoy!
One thing I don't know if you have considered or not is if a fixed front sight is used, some here have reported seeing a "shadow" with the TR24.
Virtually everybody sees the blur of the FSB in either sight. The "some" you speak of is the sum total of those who have an actual issue with it and insist that it interferes or totally occludes their vision through the optics in question.
These individuals are significantly in the minority. Optically, scientifically, it's a non-issue. No different that using binos to "burn" through concealment; you can still see through the blurry branches in front of you, which in no way gets in the way of observation downrange.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-22-09, 19:24
Why don't they put a H reticle in the TR24? Is it a technical or a marketing thing. That would seem to be the real killer application. "Poor" mans Short Dot. Have it range right at 4x?
Yeah, you will see a "shadow" of the front sight. Usually it appears at the 6 o'clock position and you will learn to ignore it, especially if you focus on the target not the reticule.
On my .308 bolt, which has no irons mounted, I see a shadow image of the barrel when on 1.25X. As you up the magnification it becomes fainter and somewhere between 3-4 it's gone. Be a "mensch", ignore it!:D
I have also narrowed my search down to these 2 optics, well close, the TA31H-G is what Im lookin at compared to the TR24G. Im leaning towards the TA31H-G, but I have yet to see anyone selling them. I have seen the TA11G and the TA33H-G, but not the TA31. Hopefully it will be soon!
I just picked up a TA11H...it was a long hard search but I found it. It was well worth the search time. It is superlative!
Why don't they put a H reticle in the TR24? Is it a technical or a marketing thing. That would seem to be the real killer application. "Poor" mans Short Dot. Have it range right at 4x?
I have seen this question asked many times but haven't seen an answer yet (or don't remember the answer).
Reminds me of the GRSC CRS (http://www.grsc.com/combatriflescope.php) concept.
Rickenbacker53
06-27-09, 08:07
I have seen this question asked many times but haven't seen an answer yet (or don't remember the answer).
Reminds me of the GRSC CRS (http://www.grsc.com/combatriflescope.php) concept.
As You See I have yet to even get an Answer on what I asked
So I answered it for myself. I found a local store ( Local being a 2 hour drive) They had for display purposes only . A TR24 ( Red Posts) TR24 Amber German X-hairs- TA33R ( Well used) . All of these scopes were mounted on Rifles. The Store owner had a small narrow but fairly Long Sighting only Range. Targets were set at 15 30 50 100 120 150 and 225 yards.
Now keep in mind I couldn't fire these weapons-but it still gave me a very good idea.
While the TA33 was very nice it did not perform like the TR24. Especially from The 15 and 30 yard markers. I am not going into alot of details like a professional expert would. Lets just say from a color standpoint I liked the Amber much more than the red.
The big surprise is I went down there planing on liking the TR24 (Red POSTS), but instead fell in love with the German X hairs.
I tried the TA33 first . But once I tried the TR24 I never went back. If there's a Best of both worlds scope available this has to be it.
As mentioned I fell in love with the x-hairs. They were every bit as fast on closer targets as the red post, but from 100 and farther there wasn't any question this was it. Even if the center dot were to wash out, it appeared you'd just center your target and bang.
I have read a few posts suggesting that a BDC should be added to the recticle.
I disagree that little amber center showed up great and once you know how your rifle shoots you just make the adjustments. I felt both the Ta33 and the Red Post Ta24 covered to much up at 100 yards to be real precise.
To simplify my decision. I chose the TR24 Cross Hairs because what I was looking for is a scope that's fairly fast in close, but that I can consistently shoot tight groups at 100 yards and out.
I didn't feel I could consistently do that with the other 2 examples. For me the Ta33 was just an old dog with worse eyes than its predecessors.
Those of you waiting for green in the TR24. While I don't think you'll be disappointed, I think the yellow would show up better.
I brought some 50 cent size slugs with me. Painted Lime Green, Red, Yellow, Orange, and Bright Blue. I had drilled a center hole in each piece and attached them vertically to a piece of heavy cardboard.
To be fair I should mention, I am a 53 year old that GOD as chosen to leave my eyes as they were when I was 30. I don't need glasses for anything so far.
I set the cardboard at 50 yards and could see every color. So I tried 100 and
could pick out the yellow and Red but the rest seemed to wash out. It was getting pretty late and the store owner appeared to be getting a tad peeved I was wasting so much time- so I quit went inside and proceeded to purchase the German Cross Hair in Amber. I think I'll be very happy.
As to my color test. To get a better idea of what your eyes really pick up ..I plan on trying it again but with one color at a time at the local range where I can take my sweet time.
Anyway- This post is clearly just my own opinion of the 2 scopes and the options of what I had to try.
I think you guys debating on either TA33 or TR24 ..Will rather have the 24. Especially if your coming from and Eotech or Aimpoint like I am. Thanks
Sorry I didn't answer your question, and Thank you for the write up.
I just picked up a TA11H...it was a long hard search but I found it. It was well worth the search time. It is superlative!
Where?
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-27-09, 15:03
XXXXX
Rickenbacker53
06-28-09, 08:57
I might wait for a TA11H-G.
It really doesn't matter at this point because I have my scope- but why are you guys discussing a totally different scope than what the Thread is about. I wrote the thread for some answers and discussion of the TA33 and TR24 -Not the Ta11.. Why do people change the subject. ??
Start a TA11 thread
Sorry, Rickenbacker53.
I don't think anyone was intentionally taking your thread off-topic.
It's just that sometimes some folks don't know what they don't know.
And in that case, it might be helpful for someone with experience to suggest a TA11 or other "off topic" optic (even though you might think that's not what you want, or have never even considered it) and possibly get you exactly where you want to be.
Again, glad you found what you were looking for and hopefully this discussion can continue to be useful for others in the future who may find themselves in the same spot you were in, when you created this thread.
:)
In the vane of continuing education, or for those still undecided. I have a TA33-8 (amber chevron) on my GP rifle. I would echo the sentiments of Steven58. As an all around optic I don't think a better one exists.
Mine is in a ADM mount and also has proven to have very repeatable zero.
Chris
+1 CCK
I'm Terrifically impressed with my TA33 Amber chevron. It has produced some very good groups on the precision side and I look forward to wringng it out in some 3 gun. My son fired this 200 yard group with it recently.
I appreciate it when threads wander about other options. This can be very helpful for any number or reasons.
+2 CCK!
Nice Group.
While the TR21 and TA33 may not be the most precise optics on a square range they are some of the best at hitting targets that are actually trying not to get shot.
The ACOG just lets you do it further out!
Here is my TR21 amber on my Ultra Light Arms .308 and my son shooting my POF with TA33.
Rickenbacker53
06-29-09, 17:53
+2 CCK!
Nice Group.
While the TR21 and TA33 may not be the most precise optics on a square range they are some of the best at hitting targets that are actually trying not to get shot.
The ACOG just lets you do it further out!
Here is my TR21 amber on my Ultra Light Arms .308 and my son shooting my POF with TA33. Trying not to get shot..Your referring to an animal.. Steve you really need to check out the tr24..just to try it..I liked the ta33 and still may buy one ..But I think you'd be impressed with the upgrade from a 21 to this newer 24..
Rickenbacker53,
Yes Animals, all of them, both 2 legged and 4... Whatever needs shooting under the exigencies of the given situation.
I love both the Accupoint and ACOG series of optics.
I own 2 Accupoints. The TR 20 3 X 9 is on my 22 LR bolt action Great on small game!
The TR 21 1.25 X 4 is on a .308. Great on big game! I think these are the best hunting optics "for me" given the envelope for which they are intended to be used
If the TR 24 were available when I bought the 21 I would have bought the 24 as it is an improvement over the 21 in several areas. I think it's a great scope for the money.
Both ACOGs and Accupoints are fine choices for an AR platform. Inside of 300 m the ACOG's only advantage over the Accupoint is that it is more resistant to damage. The Accupoint will save you hundreds of $$$ over the ACOG.
However, in my opinion, If you want your AR to have the ability to engage uncooperative targets (persons who are moving in and out of cover/concealment and might even be shooting back) at unknown ranges from 300 to 600 m then the TA33 will do that. the TR24 can't, as it has no BDC capability and no ranging capability.
To hit beyond point blank range with a TR24, you would have to
1- range the target independently with a rangefinder,
2- guesstimate the holdover based on information on a range card that at best is taped to your stock at worst is in your pocket.
3- attempt to apply the holdover. This is very difficult with a thick lower post as it tends to obscure the target.
4- fire.
To hit beyond PBR with the TA33
1- match stadia bar to target's shoulder width
2- fire.
If medium range is part of what your rifle is expected to do, TA33. If not, the TR24's the choice.
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