View Full Version : How do they rate?
I'm starting to gather information to start my first AR build. One thing I'm not clear on are the relative differences between different component manufacturers. I know I can look at price as one indicator, but that doesn't always tell the story. So I'm asking you guys!
Here's the scale:
1 - Poor
2 - Below average
3 - Average
4 - Above average
5 - Excellent
I'd like any feedback you want to offer on how you think - generally - these manufacturers stand:
- Rock River Arms
- Bushmaster
- Vltor
- DPMS
- CMT
I'm looking primarily at their components but I'll assume that complete rifles will be of the same relative quality. I'd appreciate your input on any or all -- and feel free to include any major suppliers I've overlooked.
I don't want to turn this into a bash session - I'm just trying to get a feel for what I should expect if I order an RRA lower vs. a Bushmaster.
Thanks in advance!
Jim
Jim
Robb Jensen
01-18-07, 15:00
- Rock River Arms (4) Decent rifles and parts for the most part but their complete rifles aren't assembled correctly (bad staking on carrier keys, Loc-Tited receiver extensions, raw aluminum feed ramps on upper receivers.
- Bushmaster (3) Decent rifles assembled okay (but sometimes bad staking on carrier keys), I don't recommend their bolts or bolt carriers, nor stocks. Finish usually don't match (uppers to lowers).
- Vltor (5) Excellent everything!
- DPMS (3) Average, some parts are okay some suck bad.
- CMT (5) Excellent everything!
CMT is clearly the pick of the this litter. They provide parts to some of the others on your list as well as other manufacturers.
- CMT (5) Excellent everything!
What about the staking of the carrier keys?
These are my opinions based on my experience.
Rock River Arms - (4) - I've had nothing but good luck with RRA stuff but I've never owned a complete carbine. All the parts I've used; BCGs, LPKs, lowers, buttstocks, furniture, etc have been great. If I wanted a complete RRA (and I do) I'd have Steve at ADCO build the upper for me.
Bushmaster - (3) - While I've had good luck with all things Bushmaster their loose gas keys and canted front sights are infamous. But I have several Bushy lowers, barrels and other assorted parts in the safe and all have been good to go.
Vltor - (5) - Everything I have or have seen from them has been the cat's meow.
DPMS - (2) - I've used some DPMS stuff and have had great luck with it. But their bolts breaking and their excessively tight chambers are stuff of legends.
CMT - (5) - When I need a LPK, buttstock, upper, BCG or whatever these days my first call goes out to Bravo Company or G&R for CMT stuff. I use it almost exclusively now for all my builds. Great stuff!
Only two of those companies make AR's (technically) and would pass on both of them. If you like CMT and want to get a lot of the components in an AR, buy a Stag. The maine issue with Stag's is that the carrier key is not properly staked. This can easily be fixed.
VLTOR makes some of the VERY best AR parts on the planet! ;)
C4
Robb Jensen
01-18-07, 18:22
What about the staking of the carrier keys?
No reason not to buy CMT. More than Likely I'm building Jims AR (Navy87Guy)
My MOACKS fixes CMT carrier keys in less than 2 minutes.
GotM4 just reminded me that I need to buy a MOACKS.
No reason not to buy CMT. More than Likely I'm building Jims AR (Navy87Guy)
My MOACKS fixes CMT carrier keys in less than 2 minutes.
Well if things go right, Robb will help me build my AR -- and get my butt out of trouble if I screw up!
Thanks for the feedback, guys. This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I'm just trying to get my arms around all the differences and the experiences from you seasoned AR folks. I'd rather learn from your mistakes!
Jim
Well if things go right, Robb will help me build my AR -- and get my butt out of trouble if I screw up!
Thanks for the feedback, guys. This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I'm just trying to get my arms around all the differences and the experiences from you seasoned AR folks. I'd rather learn from your mistakes!
Jim
It is a VERY good idea to let Robb help you out. ;)
C4
No reason not to buy CMT. More than Likely I'm building Jims AR (Navy87Guy)
My MOACKS fixes CMT carrier keys in less than 2 minutes.
I asked to see if you had a different view about the quality of their staking.
What really makes me curious is everyone I talk to says they could easily do a better job of staking, yet they continue on their current course. So that got me to wondering if there was any reason at all to use their staking method.
I asked to see if you had a different view about the quality of their staking.
What really makes me curious is everyone I talk to says they could easily do a better job of staking, yet they continue on their current course. So that got me to wondering if there was any reason at all to use their staking method.
I have talked to them about it before and they kind of seemed puzzled about what I was saying. So I am guessing that they really don't see it as a problem.
C4
So I am guessing that they really don't see it as a problem.
C4
I'm completely puzzled as to why they don't see the problem. They have engineers, I hope. I was hoping someone had a theory or an explaination as to why. It was a long shot, but worth the chance.
Time to unhijack the thread.;)
Time to unhijack the thread.;)
No hijack - it's all part of the learning process! Besides, poor staking seems to be a common problem with several components. It's always good to know what to look out for!
Jim
Maybe it's my lack of knowledge on everything AR, but I'd stack my Bushmaster's fit/finish/quality up against CMT any day of the week. Everyone knows VLTOR has really gone above and beyond, I won't argue against them.
But ranking Bushmaster a tier 3, I guess I got one of the good one's? RRA is a tier 2-3 at best.
IMHO, ask Grant he's got waaaaaaaay more knowledge than most do.
GotM4 just reminded me that I need to buy a MOACKS.
Get on it mister!
I have the Stag lowers, Grizzly , Bushmaster. The high round count is on the Bushmaster lower which has a DPMS LPK, th elower has at least 25k through it, no issues at all. The upper that was with it was a Bushmaster shorty AK that I got used, got a DPMS bolt carrier group. I had to assembly that, I worked the gas key onto the carrier, lock tighted the screws and used a center punch to stake them. I had over 20k through that upper, serious hard use. I sold it as is(just wanted a "non ban" upper, but miss the AK brake, very effective), was running strong to upgrade to an M4 upper. Luck has it, I found a used Colt M4 upper un a local shop(unk round count), got a fh pinned/welded and it's been running with a used Bushy bolt group from a buddy, at least 5k in that.
I did have a DPMS upper years ago and the ARMS mount was loose as can be on it.
The CMT LPK's are really nice, for a stock trigger, not bad. The Bushmaster triggers that I've had were all gritty. I replaced the stock Bushmaster group with a CMT in my SBR.
The Stags, Grizzy's run great with the Bco and Sabre uppers.
Mark
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