Funny Quirk about my AR

[Mac5.56]

So I don't know if any of you have had this happen but in the last two weeks I have noticed a funny quirk about my AR.

Prior to two weeks ago I had had zero malfunctions with the rifle! Recently I have taken the gun out with some old friends, and a new group of people I met recently (shooters are hard to find in NY, so if their safe, it's kind of like a blessing if you meet anyone). With these two groups I experienced my first two malfunctions, and both times it happened while in another shooters hands. The gun has always operated perfectly for me... So does this mean that it has an attachment to me, and hates other users...:):confused::)

I personally find it a bit amusing, and quirky.

This first failure was a failure to feed that may have been a double feed as the second round's front was pointed upwards and out of the magazine.

The second failure happened yesterday, and it honestly looked like a light primer strike, as the indent on the primer was minimal and the round did not fire. (this one honestly has me a bit concerned, but I just ran several rounds slowly through the rifle and didn't have it happen again).

So that's my rifles quirk. Anyone have stories of their own?

[Slugger]

Any chance you were using the same mag during both failures? May want to put some tape on the mag if it happens again just to see if it could be mag related.
Slugger

[decodeddiesel]

Failure number 1 sounds like an improperly seated mag, but it's hard to tell from your description. Did the fired case fail to eject? Was immediate action (SPORTS) performed? Did that solve the problem?

Failure number 2 could be a number of things. What type of ammo was it? What are the specifics of the weapon?

[beavo451]

I had a 1911 that was the same way. :confused:

[dcmdon]

Number your mags, then it will be easy to track if you have any trouble.

I had a light primer strike during a carbine course last month. Only malfunction in 700 rounds. Actually it was my only malfunction in thousands of rounds with that gun.

Next round went off fine. ejected cases all had correct primer strikes.

During lunch, I checked the firing pin. It moved freely. Strange. I took the bolt apart, blew it out with brake cleaner and relubed it just in case. No problem since then. Strange. Sounds similar.

Don

[Zhurdan]

Call me crazy, but you said the malfunctions only happened when the rifle was in hands other than your own right? I'd say shoot your rifle, if it doesn't happen to you, it's probably the shooter. Yes, I realize that these issues can stem from other more problematic issues, but eliminating causes is the first thing to do. If these things aren't happening with you, it may not be the rifle.

[dcmdon]

I had a 1911 that was the same way. :confused:

Here's the difference. A 1911 requires a firm platform to recoil against for it to perform properly. If someone "limp wrists" it, a 1911 can not function.

This is normal.

An AR's bolt assembly is driven rearward by gas pressure extending the bolt of the carrier and driving the carrier rearward.

The user's input should not affect the rifles ability to cycle.

With that said. having a firm shoulder to recoil against can a little boost to cycling. However this should not be necessary.

Do this little test. load your rifle. turn 90 degrees to down range. hold the rifle in front of you pointing down range and squeeze the trigger.

This way it has nothing even remotely solid to recoil against. It should function correctly. if it has the same problem you need either more gas or a lighter buffer, or you could clip the spring.

Don

[decodeddiesel]

Here's the difference. A 1911 requires a firm platform to recoil against for it to perform properly. If someone "limp wrists" it, a 1911 can not function.

This is normal.

An AR's bolt assembly is driven rearward by gas pressure extending the bolt of the carrier and driving the carrier rearward.

The user's input should not affect the rifles ability to cycle.

With that said. having a firm shoulder to recoil against can a little boost to cycling. However this should not be necessary.

Do this little test. load your rifle. turn 90 degrees to down range. hold the rifle in front of you pointing down range and squeeze the trigger.

This way it has nothing even remotely solid to recoil against. It should function correctly. if it has the same problem you need either more gas or a lighter buffer, or you could clip the spring.

Don

I'm sorry, but why do you think this is a gas/buffer problem?

It really sounds to me like who ever inserted the magazine didn't insert it properly. This is why I asked if immediate action had been performed and what the result was.

If he stated the rifle wasn't locking back on the last round I would agree that it was a gas issue.

[dcmdon]

I'm not saying this is a problem. I'm saying that this is an easy, quick, painless diagnostic.

If it were me, I'd like to find the problem. Since he can't replicate the problem himself, I was just trying to further any brainstorming that might be going on.


I guess, on whole, I'd try to replicate it by swapping mags. Then if that didnt do it, I'd do whatever I could do to replicate the problem. Including holding it with nothing to recoil against.

Don

p.s. One other question that might confirm your suspicion. to the OP. Was the mag full? Was the bolt closed when it was inserted?

[Mac5.56]

Thanks guys for your thoughts.

I do feel like there was a user factor involved in both situations, both of which may have had some effect, but who knows.

Here are the details:

Both malfunctions happened with the same 10 round C Products magazine with a Magpul follower that the gun came with. I use this magazine exclusively when I teach new users to use the gun as I don't see the point of: A. Giving a new user five rounds loaded into a 30 round mag. B. Having to explain to a NY park ranger that my 30 RND magazines are pre-ban while the gun is potentially in someone's hands other then my own.

Here's the kicker I know you will all jump on me for (which is fair). Both malfunctions happened with Wolf ammo. Is this the cause? I don't know, because I have over 250 of these rounds through the gun in my hand. Before recently I only ran Black Hills, Partizan, Federal, and Remington through the gun, but with the lack of cheap ammo in NY I buckled and tried some Wolf.

Status of failures:

Failure to feed/Double Feed: First magazine of a new user. Bolt was open. I loaded the rounds, but he seated the magazine, and closed the bolt. Failure occurred on the sixth round on a ten round magazine. I took the gun from the shooter, did an immediate action, as described in this article: http://www.usshootingacademy.com/CM_Files/Newsletters/ARE%20YOU%20TRAINING%20FOR%20FAILURE%20by%20Erik%20Lund.pdf. Re-seated the magazine myself, shot through the magazine. And all was fine.

Light Strike: Second set of shots for new user. User was nervous (she's a cowgirl, that out shot me years ago with a 30.30, but said she didn't like the "look/feel" of the AR). Bolt was open. I loaded the magazine. She seated the magazine, and pressed closed the bolt. Magazine had 5 rounds in it. Failure occurred on the last round of the magazine. I took the rifle, ejected the magazine, then ejected the round using the charging handle. I noticed the light strike, and discarded the round (safely). I then re-loaded 5 rounds into the same magazine, and shot all five without failure.

80 more rounds have been shot through the rifle since yesterday (the last malfunction), all by me, and all without failure.

I personally think the gun can just tell when the user is a goof...;)

(I'm taking this seriously, but I can't help but give this gun some form of personality)

[decodeddiesel]

Thanks guys for your thoughts.

I do feel like there was a user factor involved in both situations, both of which may have had some effect, but who knows.

Here are the details:

Both malfunctions happened with the same 10 round C Products magazine with a Magpul follower that the gun came with. I use this magazine exclusively when I teach new users to use the gun as I don't see the point of: A. Giving a new user five rounds loaded into a 30 round mag. B. Having to explain to a NY park ranger that my 30 RND magazines are pre-ban while the gun is potentially in someone's hands other then my own.

Here's the kicker I know you will all jump on me for (which is fair). Both malfunctions happened with Wolf ammo. Is this the cause? I don't know, because I have over 250 of these rounds through the gun in my hand. Before recently I only ran Black Hills, Partizan, Federal, and Remington through the gun, but with the lack of cheap ammo in NY I buckled and tried some Wolf.

Status of failures:

Failure to feed/Double Feed: First magazine of a new user. Bolt was open. I loaded the rounds, but he seated the magazine, and closed the bolt. Failure occurred on the sixth round on a ten round magazine. I took the gun from the shooter, did an immediate action, as described in this article: http://www.usshootingacademy.com/CM_Files/Newsletters/ARE%20YOU%20TRAINING%20FOR%20FAILURE%20by%20Erik%20Lund.pdf. Re-seated the magazine myself, shot through the magazine. And all was fine.

Light Strike: Second set of shots for new user. User was nervous (she's a cowgirl, that out shot me years ago with a 30.30, but said she didn't like the "look/feel" of the AR). Bolt was open. I loaded the magazine. She seated the magazine, and pressed closed the bolt. Magazine had 5 rounds in it. Failure occurred on the last round of the magazine. I took the rifle, ejected the magazine, then ejected the round using the charging handle. I noticed the light strike, and discarded the round (safely). I then re-loaded 5 rounds into the same magazine, and shot all five without failure.

80 more rounds have been shot through the rifle since yesterday (the last malfunction), all by me, and all without failure.

I personally think the gun can just tell when the user is a goof...;)

(I'm taking this seriously, but I can't help but give this gun some form of personality)

A gun that won't shoot Wolf is a gun that I won't own. No one worth a damn on this site will chastise you for using Wolf. That said, Wolf has very hard primers and could be the reason for the "light primer strike". Given the isolated nature of this malfunction I would call it an ammo related issue and be done with it.

As far as malfunction number one. C-Products mags = shit. I would ditch that thing like a hot rock, straight into the trash. Magazines are meant to be expendable items. Something jacked up.

Obviously without diagnosing the malfunction first hand it is impossible to know, but the old Army armorer in me would bet money it is a magazine related malfunction.

[dcmdon]

I agree.

Toss the mag. If nothing else, its $10 towards solving the problem.

I've got a number of stainless C prod 20 rd mags and they work fine, but even if it was a Pmag, I'd say toss it just for the sake of solving the problem.

Now that prices are down to earth, you might want to invest in some pmags. Can you get them in 10 rds?

Its funny. I've sold all my old 20 and 30 rd mags to a friend who lives in Mass and can't buy new high caps. I did him a favor and only sold them to him for replacement cost. Heres the funny part. A week later a friend of mine suggests we do the 3 gun match at West Point.

Technically I would have committed a felony if I came into the state with all my post ban mags to use at that match. I never thought of the travel aspect when I sold all my pre-ban mags.

Oh well.

Re wolf - again, I agree. Anyone who gives you crap either has someone else paying for his ammo or doesn't shoot enough for it to matter. Wolf works fine. Sometimes you have to tweak a gun to work with its low power.

I had to clip a couple of coils off my buffer spring. No big deal. With what I save on 2000 rounds of Wolf, I can buy a new barrel and buffer spring.

Good luck.

Don

p.s. re light primer strike misfire. Was it noticeably lighter than the rounds that went off?

[Mac5.56]

Tossed Mags: I hear you guys! But magazines may be designed to be expendable, but in NY they aren't priced that way!!! ;) A Pre-Ban used 30 rd is between 30-60 at a gun shop. And the 10 RND new magazines are 25 - 29.99 everywhere I have looked. But I will keep my eyes open and just use my pre-bans for the time being.

As for the Wolf, I figured that would be the response. If a shooter can't hit a target with expensive ammo because he/she can't afford to practice what good are they? In my mind they own a fancy, 1000 dollar paperweight and nothing more.

Regarding Dcmdon and the 3gun comp. This is an interesting question. There are several questions I would have for a lawyer regarding this. One being that it is at West Point. This may make the use of the mags acceptable if it is on federal government property. The big question though is transportation... I know that NY gun laws specifically address the transportation of pistols by competition shooters. Since it is illegal for anyone with a CC to transport a pistol in the state, certain sports shooters are exempt if they carry the pistol in a locked box with all of the paper work. It could be the same for magazines. I have no idea though.




I agree.

Toss the mag. If nothing else, its $10 towards solving the problem.

Now that prices are down to earth, you might want to invest in some pmags. Can you get them in 10 rds?

Its funny. I've sold all my old 20 and 30 rd mags to a friend who lives in Mass and can't buy new high caps. I did him a favor and only sold them to him for replacement cost. Heres the funny part. A week later a friend of mine suggests we do the 3 gun match at West Point.

Technically I would have committed a felony if I came into the state with all my post ban mags to use at that match. I never thought of the travel aspect when I sold all my pre-ban mags.

Oh well.

Re wolf - again, I agree. Anyone who gives you crap either has someone else paying for his ammo or doesn't shoot enough for it to matter. Wolf works fine. Sometimes you have to tweak a gun to work with its low power.

I had to clip a couple of coils off my buffer spring. No big deal. With what I save on 2000 rounds of Wolf, I can buy a new barrel and buffer spring.

Good luck.

Don

p.s. re light primer strike misfire. Was it noticeably lighter than the rounds that went off?

[dcmdon]

set up an account with Brownells. say that you have a C&R FFL. That will get you a discount.

This item:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=5560/Product/AR-15_10_ROUND_POLYMER_MAGAZINE

shows as $19.99, but with a C&R discount, it is $14.92

You may want to actually get your C&R FFL. Its very little hassle. 1 page form and $30 for 3 years. then $20 renewal every 3 years.

Don