View Full Version : Bolt Carrier Carbon Removal
White Eagle
06-28-09, 19:50
What's the best way to remove carbon from the bolt carrier? Scraping or solvents? Thanks!
Welcome to M4C! Hope you enjoy your stay here! :cool:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5074&highlight=carbon+removal
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=27331&highlight=carbon+removal
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=17089&highlight=carbon+removal
brushes soaked with solvents, then scraping. a cheap screwdriver works good, cause it's generally much softer steel than the carrier. i have one that i cut short and ground down to a sharpish edge.. scrapes well, doesn't beat up the carrier.
lotta guys will say don't worry about carbon deposits. i think it's more preference than anything... it seems like being adamently against cleaning is almost "cool" these days.
Failure2Stop
06-28-09, 20:15
I mostly just keep it soaked in lube of some sort anyway. When it comes to cleaning I just wad up a bit of cloth and twist it in. The Slip 2000 Carbon Cutter does a pretty good job in there. If I get a big chunk of carbon that doesn't want to come out I will either hit it with a punch-rod or one of the brass bore-brushes that fit (not sure which one it is, but I am fairly sure it is a worn shotgun brush) and twist it for a while.
lotta guys will say don't worry about carbon deposits. i think it's more preference than anything... it seems like being adamently against cleaning is almost "cool" these days.
I think it's the pendulum swing away from the anal armorer inspections that plagued us for many years. I would like to see a sensible middle-ground met. But I am not going to be the one to lead that charge ;).
This is how I clean my BCG and weapon.
1. Mix 7/8 pint of odorless mineral spirit with 1/4 bottle of CLP.
2. Pour the mixture into a small metal pan.
3. Take apart BCG and let it soak in pan.
4. Clean the rest of your weapon.
5. Use a small paint brush or q-tip to remove carbon from BCG.
6. Remove BCG parts from soaking mixure, dry with can of air, Lube BCG, and put together BCG.
7. Put BCG into your weapon. GTG.
8. Recycle your soaking mixture with a funnel and coffee filter to remove large bits of carbon deposit. Store it in original mineral spirit container to be use again next time.
Total weapon cleaning time= 1 hour max. So simple a caveman can do it.:D
Blankwaffe
06-28-09, 22:48
Like F2S recommends,I also just try to keep the inside of the carrier and the bolt tail wet with lube,which seems to help keep the carbon soft and prevent corrosion under the carbon.If the carbon gets real heavy,from say shooting cheap nasty ammo,I will soak the parts in Hoppe's No.9 overnight and use a sharpened chop-stick to pick the remaining carbon off/out.
Otherwise I dont worry too much about it as the carbon seems to be self limiting,and I clean my weapons after every use...so I don't see a huge buildup on the parts regardless.
SWATcop556
06-29-09, 00:32
I just keep it well lubed and scrape out the big chunks. I haven't "white-glove" cleaned any of my rifles in years.
I don't let it build up too thick but I don't sweat getting every last piece off. I just use an old brass punch to scrape what I need to after soaking it in carbon cutter.
kaiservontexas
06-29-09, 00:47
toothpicks and q-tips is what I use along with Hoppes No. 9.
White Eagle
06-29-09, 06:46
I appreciate all of the helpful responses. Thanks!
Expedition
07-10-09, 10:26
Try this: http://catm4.com/ .
I just shot through a Magpul Dynamics Carbine I course starting with a case of Wolf (I know, I know...) the first day. My rifle got dirty enough to start double feeding. I scraped it down with this tool and lubed it up and was back on the line without missing a drill.
It also has instructions for "inspection" cleaning, whatever that means (I was in the Air Force ;-).
Littlelebowski
07-10-09, 10:28
I shoot, lube, and repeat. This leaves the carbon at a set amount and the rest blows out. Stop worrying about carbon on your carrier.
Soaking the carrier and bolt rings with a hearty application of CLP really softens that crap up after about 2 or 3 days.
As soon as I'm done at the range, I drip CLP into the exhaust ports and a few drops down the carrier key. The next day or so, the stuff is much easier to clean.
faawrenchbndr
07-10-09, 15:14
I disasemble the BCG and place in a gallon size zip lock bag.
I place 2-3 ounces of Kano Kroil or Ford fuel injection cleaner in the
bag with the BCG. An overnight soak removed all or nearly all of the carbon.
A GI toothbrush will remove what is left.
What's the best way to remove carbon from the bolt carrier? Scraping or solvents? Thanks!
Gas piston retro kit..........
I have mixed for cleaning the blasters, one part Kroil to 2 parts Shooters Choice bore cleaner. I put the bolt carrier on it's end, run some of it into the key, then the well and let it sit while I clean the rest of the weapon. I use a GI toothbrush with a patch doubled to run in and twist. Every so often I use the carbon scraper-excess build up w/o cleaning does stress the bolt lugs.
For the bolt, I use the same stuff after running an empty .44 Mag case around the tail.
Parabellum9x19mm
07-11-09, 08:27
once in a while i break out the Mark Brown carbon scraper, but usually i dont really worry about it too much.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1851/Product/AR_15_M16_CARRIER_CARBON_SCRAPER
it wont work in the LMT Enhanced carrier, so i just use a cleaning rod section and dental picks for that.
OldNavyGuy
07-11-09, 09:04
I shoot, lube, and repeat. This leaves the carbon at a set amount and the rest blows out. Stop worrying about carbon on your carrier.
once more i fully and totally agree with the above statement. if the designers had fired a thousand or so rounds, then inspected the parts, then added metal in those areas where carbon build up occurred there would never be a carbon build up !! just my OPINION of course
Im not sure why anyone here is scraping.
WHAT exactly are you guys cleaning off so rigorously?
I understand there is a difference between military cleaning procedures and civi procedures but a simple wipe down has ALWAYS been enough to keep my rifles functioning.
I do generously lube the bolt with CLP after shooting to help soften the deposits.
Also, in regards to that comment about it being "cool" to not clean these days i think its more about maximizing time. In today's day and age and pace of life most of us want to shoot more, clean less and spend time doing other things. I dont have two hours to spend cleaning my rifle after shooting. A quick 10 minute clean and im on my way to do other things. I think alot of other guys here will echo this sentiment.
RogerinTPA
07-11-09, 11:48
Like F2S recommends,I also just try to keep the inside of the carrier and the bolt tail wet with lube,which seems to help keep the carbon soft and prevent corrosion under the carbon.If the carbon gets real heavy,from say shooting cheap nasty ammo,I will soak the parts in Hoppe's No.9 overnight and use a sharpened chop-stick to pick the remaining carbon off/out.
Otherwise I dont worry too much about it as the carbon seems to be self limiting,and I clean my weapons after every use...so I don't see a huge buildup on the parts regardless.
Never knew carbon promoted corrosion. :confused: I know the army manual actually states this, but it has never been proven to be the case, nor has anyone provided proof. It's an old wives tale if you ask me.
Blankwaffe
07-11-09, 14:48
Never knew carbon promoted corrosion. :confused: I know the army manual actually states this, but it has never been proven to be the case, nor has anyone provided proof. It's an old wives tale if you ask me.
Ive never personally seen corrosion on the bolt,or any of my weapons for that matter...ever,but I also PM my weapons after use and they are well lubricated.Personally I dont worry too much about the carbon as it seems to be self limiting,and a nice sheen of lube helps keep it that way.
But there does seem to be some folks that do have corrosion issues at the bolt tail.In fact there is a thread running on this forum that the fella has corrosion on the bolt tail.Was it caused by carbon,who knows.But I would not say that it does not,or could not happen as there have been folks talk about the very same issue for years over on TOS.
Ive never personally seen corrosion on the bolt,or any of my weapons for that matter...ever,but I also PM my weapons after use and they are well lubricated.Personally I dont worry too much about the carbon as it seems to be self limiting,and a nice sheen of lube helps keep it that way.
But there does seem to be some folks that do have corrosion issues at the bolt tail.In fact there is a thread running on this forum that the fella has corrosion on the bolt tail.Was it caused by carbon,who knows.But I would not say that it does not,or could not happen as there have been folks talk about the very same issue for years over on TOS.
You may (or may not) be talking about me. :D
First let me explain, I got this bolt in a trade with some other parts. I'm kind of OCD with cleaning my weapons thanks to a few kind Drill Sergeants back in the 80's and I wouldn't ever let one of my bolts get like this. Before I cleaned the bolt it was caked in carbon. Sorry, no before pictures.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/schenninge/DSC00360.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/schenninge/DSC00363.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/schenninge/DSC00364.jpg
For cleaning my carrier I soak the bolt / bolt carrier group in a coffee can filled with mineral spirits while I'm cleaning the barrel, upper and lower receivers. While the barrel is soaking I then clean the bolt / bolt carrier group. For cleaning the inside of the carrier I find a 40 brush or old 45 brush wrapped with a 3x3 patch works well. For any persistent carbon a brass dowel rod with a chisel point on the end works great.
It's not that hard to get a rifle clean if you stick to a routine.
Littlelebowski
07-12-09, 09:07
And how does your rifle perform after such cleaning, Henny? Better? No different?
I carry a rifle at work, so to me it's not that if it works better or not - it would probably work the same. To me, it's having the confidence in my weapon and knowing it's in proper working order. For some reason or another, I'm not willing to stake my life on a dirty weapon. Cleaning it gives me the opportunity to check parts for unusual wear, properly lube it and in general combine my work and hobby.
Like I said earlier, when I was a kid in the Army I had a few nice sergeants drill into my head about proper maintenance, cleaning and care of the M16A1. Over 25 years later I can still hear their voices!
Littlelebowski
07-12-09, 10:22
Like I said earlier, when I was a kid in the Army I had a few nice sergeants drill into my head about proper maintenance, cleaning and care of the M16A1. Over 25 years later I can still hear their voices!
In my case, it was those Marine Corps Drill Instructors. However, I do realize the difference between battle ready and inspection ready.
Cagemonkey
07-12-09, 10:43
Got to agree with LLebowski on this. I remember the insane cleaning methods we used in P.I. during boot camp. Trash cans full of water and Wisk detergent. All our rifles were soaked in these. The only original part of your rifle you received back, was the lower since it had the serial # on it. We had pieces of cut coat hanger about 6"s long flattened on the end to scrape carbon from the bolt carrier and muzzle crown inside the flash suppressor. We were commanded to scrub with the G.P. brush. In response, we shouted out "Harder, faster, Sir." and vigorously scrubbed every part clean to the point that the finish was worn off. As an Marine Armorer, I believe more damage was done to the weapons in the name of cleaning then any corrosion due to carbon or fouling.
the1911fan
07-12-09, 11:42
A carbon scraper and dental tools (picks)
The concept of clean has stayed with me, not the Army's (back then) insane cleaning methods. It takes me, I'm guessing 10 minutes to clean my rifle? I have to admit, it's usually longer because my wife will usually try interrupt me with something to do!
To me, having a clean rifle is just like wearing a clean uniform, shined boots and a clean car. Sure a wrinkled uniform, scuffed boots and a mud caked car still work just fine, but they don't present a professional image. I have less than 2 and a half years to go to retirement and having clean weapons has worked well for me so far. By the way, I'm still a patrolman, I haven't decided to drive a desk yet!
On a related note, does anyone know if the military still uses those methods? It's been a couple decades since I wore Army green. My son is in the USCG, but he works on the big guns and doesn't spend much time with the small arms at this point in his career. It even seemed to me as a barely 18 year old private that they were doing more damage to the gun than not. Drills, scotchbrite and steel rods chucked to the aforementioned drills just don't belong in a cleaning kit!
soldiersystems
07-12-09, 12:06
Expedition already said ir. CAT M4 Tool.
Blankwaffe
07-12-09, 22:41
You may (or may not) be talking about me. :D
First let me explain, I got this bolt in a trade with some other parts. I'm kind of OCD with cleaning my weapons thanks to a few kind Drill Sergeants back in the 80's and I wouldn't ever let one of my bolts get like this. Before I cleaned the bolt it was caked in carbon. Sorry, no before pictures.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/schenninge/DSC00360.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/schenninge/DSC00363.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/schenninge/DSC00364.jpg
For cleaning my carrier I soak the bolt / bolt carrier group in a coffee can filled with mineral spirits while I'm cleaning the barrel, upper and lower receivers. While the barrel is soaking I then clean the bolt / bolt carrier group. For cleaning the inside of the carrier I find a 40 brush or old 45 brush wrapped with a 3x3 patch works well. For any persistent carbon a brass dowel rod with a chisel point on the end works great.
It's not that hard to get a rifle clean if you stick to a routine.
Thats a very fine example you have there,thanks for posting the picture of it.But no I was not speaking directly in reference to you or your posts.Ive seen many posts on this topic over the years.
As far as bolt cleaning,I do basically the same as you except I use Hoppe's No.9 as a soaking solution.Previous years I used Break Free's bore cleaner,which had a very high flash point and aided in solvent removal.Verygood solution for soaking and the large mouth tin container was handy,but that was it.
I did not have any DI's driving my maintenance routine and was not given on a professional level.Rather in my youth I had a couple old hard nosed military combat vets,one of which served in the Infantry for the duration of WW2,that showed me the proper way to clean a weapon and what is considered a clean weapon for actual use.
My instruction was not a white glove cleaning/inspection by any means but what is acceptable in a set PM routine for use in the field or otherwise,and how a weapon should be properly lubricated.
Use of instruments such as metal picks and the like were greatly discouraged due to possible damage of the parts and or finish.Great care was also given in consideration of protection of the bore,chamber and muzzle,and with what tools are to be used and how clean it should be.
I like to refer to the instruction given to me as a true Riflemans perspective on PM.Its certainly served me well in my life.
So yeah I think a responsible PM routine should be followed by anyone who cares about the weapons function and service life.Not to mention the weapons are also a considerable investment and should be treated as such.
To me not maintaining a weapon properly is just as bad as rarely or never doing maintenance on your car.Sure it may run fine for a long time with minimal to no maintenance,but someday soon it will not be good in return and you will be afoot.
But thats my opinion.
Smuckatelli
07-12-09, 22:57
I use an all purpose brush on the outside and an old chamber brush dipped in Hoppe # 9 for the inside of the carrier.
Head Trauma
07-22-09, 19:51
Try soaking the bolt in CLR, a cleaning product you can find in the grocery store that is used for removing calcium, lime and rust. A short soak and the carbon fouling just wipes off without a lot of scrubbing. Works great on M1A and FAL gas pistons. If you wish to use a commercial product, Slip2000 Carbon Killer works the same way.
Blankwaffe
07-23-09, 05:38
Im not sure what to say about using commercial household detergents/surfactants on weapons parts,especially a water based solution as a dunk-it or similar.Way too much to consider in the chemistry of,and limited amount of information on the products...which makes it all a risky prospect to me.So I personally would not want to make a science project out of one of my expensive AR parts.
Its has been noted here by one of the Manufacturers,believe it was Bill Alexander in fact, about the risk of using harsh chemicals,particularly stong alkalines on the heat treated parts like BCG's.Aluminum parts are also subject to damage and easily affected by some of these cleaners.
I personally have made note of the comments in that regard and stay cautious.Damage done may not be seen until its too late.
There are way too many weapons specific cleaners available to have to resort to using anything else.I'd personally would rather just leave the layer of carbon in place and keep it soaked in oil between uses ,than go to extremes in trying to clean it off.
But thats my opinion.
Soak the affected areas with Kroil penetrating oil, and wrap a green 3M Scotch-Brite pad around it and twist.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/schenninge/DSC00360.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/schenninge/DSC00363.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/schenninge/DSC00364.jpg
Is that carbon on that bolt, or is that pitting? Looks like pitting in the metal. If it is pitting, what type of lube are you using?
No, it's not carbon, it's pitting. This is a bolt that I received in a trade. When I got it, the bolt's tail piece was caked in carbon. Sorry, I have no before pictures. After I cleaned it up, this is what I found.
I'm one of those guys that like to clean up my firearms after use. I wouldn't ever let one of my bolts go that long with out a good cleaning.
This is how I clean my BCG and weapon.
1. Mix 7/8 pint of odorless mineral spirit with 1/4 bottle of CLP.
2. Pour the mixture into a small metal pan.
3. Take apart BCG and let it soak in pan.
4. Clean the rest of your weapon.
5. Use a small paint brush or q-tip to remove carbon from BCG.
6. Remove BCG parts from soaking mixure, dry with can of air, Lube BCG, and put together BCG.
7. Put BCG into your weapon. GTG.
8. Recycle your soaking mixture with a funnel and coffee filter to remove large bits of carbon deposit. Store it in original mineral spirit container to be use again next time.
Total weapon cleaning time= 1 hour max. So simple a caveman can do it.:D
Sounds familiar.........:)
I shoot, lube, and repeat. This leaves the carbon at a set amount and the rest blows out. Stop worrying about carbon on your carrier.
Agree with this.
auto parts stores sell GUNK Carburetor and Parts Cleaner that comes in a 1 gal. container and includes a parts strainer/basket.
I just throw the parts into the basket when I come home from shooting and let soak. carbon comes off very easy after a couple hours.
remember to relube completely as this is a vigorous degreaser...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/OMS3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/OMS.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/OMS1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/OMSBFboltassySm.jpg
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