View Full Version : Double Star M4
yogiboobooranger
06-30-09, 10:42
I am pretty new to the AR Rifle thing, but have the opportunity to get a Double Star M4 flat top, unfired for a reasonable trade offer. I noticed that this brand is not even listed on "THE CHART". Looking into this alittle myself shows that these rifles are Mil Spec manufactured. Am I ok in assuming the Double Star rifles are descent quality, or should I leave it alone? By the way, I am new here and hope to be involved more as I get into the AR Rifle ownership.
Failure2Stop
06-30-09, 11:35
The only thing I would use from DoubleStar is a stripped lower, and even that would be done under suspicion.
Double Star is about as Mil-Spec as Liberace.
Don't know nothing for nothing about Double Star, but have you read through M4C forum member gotm4's thread:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=24397
Enjoy! :cool:
yogiboobooranger
06-30-09, 12:08
Yes I read all of that but I guess what I am after is a good suggestion for a mid-range M4 rifle, not too expensive, but worthy of owning and improving on as time goes by. I asked about the Double Star as I have the opportunity to trade a Ruger SP101 .357 Mag with factory installed crimson trace grips for it.
Here's another thread that you may have seen or read regarding said product versus another.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31631&highlight=Double+Star
take a look at the ADS m4s that G&R offers in the dealed section. they certainly look good on paper, got one of the uppers myself,,, nice. not shot enough to give any real opinion yet. for sure good quality for the price.
The_War_Wagon
06-30-09, 14:31
I had a Doublestar CAR as a plinker for a while (sold it during the post-election hysteria to fund some upgrades on other rifles :D). With 55gr. FMJ fodder (mostly GA Arms reloads) it ran fine. I wouldn't want to run the Apocalypse with it, but as simply a paper puncher, to keep the ol' hand/eye coordination in check, it was sufficient. If that's all you WANT to do with it, I think it would be quite adequate to the task.
Had a Doublestar M4orgery 14.5 upper. Ran great, no problem. Just remember, "mil-spec commercial" doesn't exist.
Looking into this alittle myself shows that these rifles are Mil Spec manufactured.
What in the world would make you think that they are "mil-spec manufacturered?"
C4
yogiboobooranger
07-01-09, 09:56
I looked up the rifle company and in their listings they state "only Mil-spec parts" are used to build their carbine. So I guess that must mean their parts meet minimum Military requirements or standards.
I guess after reading and studying what I could find here on this site, that Double Star would be a good starter rifle for minimum usage (plinking) and that LMT,Colt, and other high grade rifles are for training and volume shooting. Since I probably will never be a high volume shooter (Too costly for Ammo), and primarily want an AR type weapon before completely banned by the Obamanites, I want a rifle I can afford or trade for. The offer is for a brand new Double Star M4 in trade for a handgun, and I just wanted some input as to the quality or lack there of. Thanks for all who responded.
I looked up the rifle company and in their listings they state "only Mil-spec parts" are used to build their carbine.
That is a buzz line that every company uses.
I guess after reading and studying what I could find here on this site, that Double Star would be a good starter rifle for minimum usage
A used Colt 6920 would be a good starter rifle that will also hold is value and will never need upgrading.
I looked up the rifle company and in their listings they state "only Mil-spec parts" are used to build their carbine. So I guess that must mean their parts meet minimum Military requirements or standards.
I guess after reading and studying what I could find here on this site, that Double Star would be a good starter rifle for minimum usage (plinking) and that LMT,Colt, and other high grade rifles are for training and volume shooting. Since I probably will never be a high volume shooter (Too costly for Ammo), and primarily want an AR type weapon before completely banned by the Obamanites, I want a rifle I can afford or trade for. The offer is for a brand new Double Star M4 in trade for a handgun, and I just wanted some input as to the quality or lack there of. Thanks for all who responded.
So you believe what the manufacturer wrote?? Remember that by defintion "mil-spec" means to many companies (BM, Oly, RRA, Double Star, etc) that parts will fit together. That is it!
You get what you pay for. If you want a gun that will retain its value, and be less likely to fail, then buy a LMT, Colt, DD, Noveske or even a S&W.
C4
I purchased a DSC star 15 lower and its tooling and specs are quite surprising from a budget manufacturer. The roll marks were great and no visible tooling or slop in its machining. I approve of their lowers at least and it would be their uppers i would take on with caution. I might, just maybe buy a cheap upper for a throw around build, MAYBE
I used a lower on my build but that is the only DS part I have, it had nice roll marks and nice fit and finish .it will hold me over til I find a Colt lower
Parabellum9x19mm
07-02-09, 17:08
i've bought/assembled a few DS lowers (had maybe 6 or so go thru my hands, either mine or other people's)
one had a tolerance stacking issue and wouldn't work with some of my uppers....but that one wasn't mine and it fit the other guy's upper fine, so wasn't too much of a problem
other than that....no issues.
i'd avoid the rest of their parts/products like the plague tho.
the term "mil-spec" doesn't mean much anymore. if you listen to the company line from Oly they're either milspec or better than milspec in every way.
trade a handgun for it? do it. why wouldnt you?
the carbine will be a piece of shit, but if you're not losing anything by giving up the handgun (i.e., the handgun isn't currently filling any particular roll and isn't worth a shitload of money [i'm not familiar with that weapon, and too lazy to look it up]), then do it. then buy a 6920 for a home defense gun.
Wow, talk about a bunch of gun snobs.
"What makes you think it's MilSpec?"
Uh, because they are.
http://www.star15.com/home.html
I have owned a Colt Sporter purchased new around 20 years ago. I purchased a DSC EM-4 Carbine last year.
The trigger on the DS is as sweet as the one on my Colt that has a few thousand rounds through it. The fit is tight and the finish solid. I haven't gone out and fired 15,000 rounds through it yet and don't expect to. But I have fired a wide variety of 5.56 and .223 through it (steel, brass, tracer, different weight ball, Russian, US and some African) and all have performed well.
"OK for a paper punch"
Care to stand in front of me?
The rifle is a great shooter. I no longer run around like GI Joe preparing for the End of Days but I would trust my life to this rifle as well as any other.
On top of that, I picked mine up NIB for less than $900 tax included.
If you like the rifle, get it.
My experince?
Capt USMCR (Ret)
Vet. of the Cold War and the War on Terror.
Wow, talk about a bunch of gun snobs.
"What makes you think it's MilSpec?"
Uh, because they are.
http://www.star15.com/home.html
no seriously- what makes you think these rifles are actually milspec?
1/9 twist, 4140 steel, not chrome lined... big three negs on the barrel being milspec
bolts are not HPT, MPI, or shot peened... big three negs on bolt being milspec
since these are the two most important components of the weapon, we really dont need to go any futher.
My experince?
Capt USMCR (Ret)
Vet. of the Cold War and the War on Terror.
and we're all vets, by the way. shooting guns does not mean you know anything about the guns. probably 98% of infantrymen have never even heard of the TDP- the basic and minimum technical requirements for "milspec."
David Crane article in '08 "Combat Tactics" titled "The Truth About Mil-Spec". Quote "no commercial AR-15 carbine or rifle is, or ever will be, Mil-Spec. If the government is not testing the gun, by definition, it is not Mil-Spec. 'Mil-Spec commercial' is an oxymoron."
David Crane article in '08 "Combat Tactics" titled "The Truth About Mil-Spec". Quote "no commercial AR-15 carbine or rifle is, or ever will be, Mil-Spec. If the government is not testing the gun, by definition, it is not Mil-Spec. 'Mil-Spec commercial' is an oxymoron."
david crane can use whatever terms he wants. if a weapon is constructed as closely to, or exceeds, the TDP as a civilian weapon can, it's "milspec" in common useage.
the only thing lacking in a colt 6920, for instance, is select fire. it's milspec.
I have a DoubleStar DS4 (M4gery) with 1x7 4150 chrome lined barrel and M4 feed ramps. I've put 1,500 rounds through it of PPU M193, Brown Bear and Wolf MC and it's ran fine so far. I ran it in a basic carbine class I took recently and it ran fine there also. I do have a CMT MP bolt as a spare backup incase the stock bolt bites the dust. I like it fine for what I do with it, just go out and shoot it.
Having said that, when I stop by my FFL tomorrow and pick up my BCM Lowers I'll have a complete BCM middy rifle ;)
.......
Wow, talk about a bunch of gun snobs.
"What makes you think it's MilSpec?"
Uh, because they are.
http://www.star15.com/home.html
I have owned a Colt Sporter purchased new around 20 years ago. I purchased a DSC EM-4 Carbine last year.
The trigger on the DS is as sweet as the one on my Colt that has a few thousand rounds through it. The fit is tight and the finish solid. I haven't gone out and fired 15,000 rounds through it yet and don't expect to. But I have fired a wide variety of 5.56 and .223 through it (steel, brass, tracer, different weight ball, Russian, US and some African) and all have performed well.
"OK for a paper punch"
Care to stand in front of me?
The rifle is a great shooter. I no longer run around like GI Joe preparing for the End of Days but I would trust my life to this rifle as well as any other.
On top of that, I picked mine up NIB for less than $900 tax included.
If you like the rifle, get it.
My experince?
Capt USMCR (Ret)
Vet. of the Cold War and the War on Terror.
"bkb0000" is right, Im not knocking the company totally but they really arent mil spec on everything, well, theres not really a whole lot that they are mil-spec on. I have bought one of there stripped lowers and the tooling and specs are better than some other higher dollar lowers ive used (+/- .03")However, when they say that their stuff is mil-spec, but then try to tell you that nobody really needs chrome lined barrel/chamber on their website it sends a red flag right away. Like I said before, I cant knock them completely, but they arent mil-spec. ANY company will say their guns are up to mil-spec if they think it will sell ( which it does:rolleyes:). So dont trust their word for it.
My experince?
Capt USMCR (Ret)
Vet. of the Cold War and the War on Terror.
Completely irrelevant.
I haven't gone out and fired 15,000 rounds through it yet and don't expect to.
That is all we need to hear.
Fire several thousand through your Colt and then your DS and then report back to us.
Care to stand in front of me?
The argument of someone who is losing.
Every one of us has heard this bullshit line a thousand times. Give it up.
With all due respect you don't know, what you don't know. Doublestar can say whatever they want about their carbines or rifles or parts but that doesn't make it so.
If you wanted a paper punch you could have bought a Ruger 10/22.
Exactly how many rounds have you fired through your Doublestar? The feel of the trigger is completely irrelevant and has nothing to do the quality of the weapon or its "milspec-ness".
You paid less than 900.00 and yet for about 150.00 more you could have put together a BCM or Daniel Defense carbine that is probably as close to the TDP you can get next to a Colt 6920.
Wow, talk about a bunch of gun snobs.
"What makes you think it's MilSpec?"
Uh, because they are.
http://www.star15.com/home.html
I have owned a Colt Sporter purchased new around 20 years ago. I purchased a DSC EM-4 Carbine last year.
The trigger on the DS is as sweet as the one on my Colt that has a few thousand rounds through it. The fit is tight and the finish solid. I haven't gone out and fired 15,000 rounds through it yet and don't expect to. But I have fired a wide variety of 5.56 and .223 through it (steel, brass, tracer, different weight ball, Russian, US and some African) and all have performed well.
"OK for a paper punch"
Care to stand in front of me?
The rifle is a great shooter. I no longer run around like GI Joe preparing for the End of Days but I would trust my life to this rifle as well as any other.
On top of that, I picked mine up NIB for less than $900 tax included.
If you like the rifle, get it.
My experince?
Capt USMCR (Ret)
Vet. of the Cold War and the War on Terror.
Jay Cunningham
07-17-09, 04:22
The OP's questions have been answered by very credible members - this thread has run its course.
david crane can use whatever terms he wants. if a weapon is constructed as closely to, or exceeds, the TDP as a civilian weapon can, it's "milspec" in common useage.
the only thing lacking in a colt 6920, for instance, is select fire. it's milspec.
Actually David is correct in this instance.
The 6920 is not subject to Gov Inspectors, nor is its barrel length Mil-Spec, the closest to MilSpec is the current LE6921.
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