Good non jhp 9mm luger defense load [Archive]

iceman0085

07-02-09, 13:24

Hi, I have recenlty baught an glock 19 and it's an great gun. I have allready tested it on the range. I want to use it as an sd gun also but I am from austria and my country jhp bullets (with lead core) are prohibited. It would be possible to use full lead hp, copper hps, sjhps and Pre fragemented rounds like the glaser safty slug. Some specialty rounds like the federal efmj, corbon powerball and corbon dpx would be available. Which of these loads would you recomend?

thx for the help in advance

Greetings from Austria

Jim from Houston

07-02-09, 14:13

Of the list you've given, the Corbon DPX is far and away the best performer...if it's available and legal to use, it's the way to go...

Avoid prefragmented rounds like Glaser...they simply do not work.

iceman0085

07-02-09, 16:16

I see. Thx for the answer. I am also the opineon that the dpx rounds would be the best choice. The powerball concept sounds als intersting, but I think the dpx rounds would be better.

ps. What do you think about the EFMJ from federal?

Jim from Houston

07-02-09, 16:24

EFMJ is ok...it often gives inconsistent results in tests that I've seen and is very velocity dependant...if DPX is a legal, available option, there's no point using EFMJ...a well-designed actual hollowpoint is almost always going to give better and more consistent performance than a round like EFMJ or Pow'rball...

EFMJ was designed for places like the US state of New Jersey, where all hollowpoints, regardless of material, are banned from carry...the DPX round would not be legal to carry in New Jersey, so they have to use something like EFMJ.

In Austria, is sounds like you have a way around the law if the bullet is not a jacketed lead projectile...if the DPX is legal, it's your best bet because its not really a compromise...it is a hollowpoint, just one that doesn't use regular JHP construction.

iceman0085

07-02-09, 16:31

@Jim from Houston. Yes, that's an odd law. In fact only Jackted Hollow Points are prohibited, it would be no problem to use full copper or lead hallow points. And even the "evil" Jhps are not totally prohibited. Since 2008 it is possible to buy the evil jhps with an special permition. I am not an aproved hunter so I can't get these stuff. But the dpx rounds will work fine for me.

Jim from Houston

07-02-09, 16:59

Well, then you're all set...the DPX would be a good choice even if you could choose any ammo you wanted...you're not really giving anything up...even here in Texas, where we can use whatever ammo we please, a Glock 19 loaded with DPX would be a very popular choice.

iceman0085

07-03-09, 02:27

tpd223

07-03-09, 02:48

I know several people who can choose whatever they want, and carry the DPX, it is very good ammo.
One of my back-up magazines is loaded with DPX.

iceman0085

07-08-09, 02:33

I know several people who can choose whatever they want, and carry the DPX, it is very good ammo.
One of my back-up magazines is loaded with DPX.

Thx for your answer. In the meantime I have visited my local gunstore and I have orederd the dpx rounds.

ps: What do you think about the Magtech First Defense Copper HPs?

tpd223

07-08-09, 07:23

I've shot some of the Magtech 9mm and .38, it's low recoil and has been reliable in the limited shooting I have done.

I haven't seen it tested in gelatin, I'd worry that these rounds might not penetrate enough as they are rather light for the caliber.

iceman0085

07-08-09, 16:31

I see thx for your info. I will check if I can find some infos about the terminal performance of the first defense rounds. I have also found another interesting defense load, the former hirtenberger now fiocchi emb. These rounds are the quite cheap at my local gunstore.. Much cheaper than the corbon dpx, federal efmj.. and the emb conzept sounds intersting. mayby I will buy some.

iceman0085

09-20-09, 09:30

Concering the Federal EFMJ. which load would be the better chocie, the 124 grain tactical or the 105 grain personel defense?

tpd223

09-20-09, 20:25

124gr, the 105gr load does not penetrate enough.

iceman0085

09-21-09, 05:34

Thx for the Infos. If that is the case I will order the law enforcment version. I have found an good source for the efmj. I will test the rounds and if I my pistol likes them I will use them as my main defense load.

Alpha Sierra

09-21-09, 05:48

iceman, get the DPX regardless of the cost. If this is ammo that you will stake your safety and the safety of your family on, do not skimp on performance.

Corbon DPX is proven both in the lab and in the real world with defensive shootings from police and private citizens here in the US.

iceman0085

09-21-09, 09:36

Alpha Sierra Yes I haven't ceased my search for an good importer for the dpx roud. If find one I will get the dpx rounds. I like the copper bullet concept.

WillBrink

06-26-10, 17:21

EFMJ was designed for places like the US state of New Jersey, where all hollowpoints, regardless of material, are banned from carry...the DPX round would not be legal to carry in New Jersey, so they have to use something like EFMJ.
.

To re start this old thread, the above makes sense, but why do PD's stick their LEOs with that rnd?

Ned Christiansen

06-26-10, 20:03

RUAG Action 4's. Solid brass with a HP, capped by a plastic plug.

Neville

06-27-10, 02:37

Simply join a local sport shooting club and get a "Schützenpaß". There is a shooting club in Kärnten (http://members.aon.at/schuetzenverein-st.veit/) which offers defense oriented IDPA.
Voila- no restrictions on ammo anymore. The problem with expensive defense ammo is that you should at least fire 200 rds. for function testing in a pistol. So either invest 200,-
Euro or choose a revolver .... guess NOT in Glock country! ;-)

The best "legal for all, relatively cheap and easy to get" ammo in Austria is the Expansion Mono Block (EMB) now loaded by Fiocchi. Just take care to get the well expanding
5g, not the castrated 6g version. It was developed by Hirtenberger for Glock pistols, has a feeding friendly profile and is used as a limited penetration round by our police
SWAT teams (COBRA). I would not want to argue with a judge why I used another hollowpoint design than our police in a potential defense case...

http://www.tactical.at/images/product_images/popup_images/42_2.jpg

ryan

06-27-10, 12:20

disregard

Jake'sDad

06-27-10, 22:15

To re start this old thread, the above makes sense, but why do PD's stick their LEOs with that rnd?

They don't. NJ police aren't covered by the hollow point law.

WillBrink

06-28-10, 07:38

They don't.

Yes they do. That rnd is issued currently by various PDs. I'm not talking about NJ specifically as it applies to LE.

NJ police aren't covered by the hollow point law.

Thus my point: why would a dept issue them? Less $$$? Less scary looking to the public then those evil JHPs? Perceived liability? Marketing by Federal as another "magic bullet"?

Jake'sDad

06-28-10, 12:38

Yes they do. That rnd is issued currently by various PDs. I'm not talking about NJ specifically as it applies to LE.

Thus my point: why would a dept issue them? Less $$$? Less scary looking to the public then those evil JHPs? Perceived liability? Marketing by Federal as another "magic bullet"?

Ahhhh... sorry, I misunderstood. My point was NJ government exempted themselves from this silly law.

I don't think many agencies issue the EFMJ, it's not less expensive, and afaik, I don't think Federal's ever marketed it as anything other than a round for where HP's are not allowed. They've always been big on ballistic testing, and in any test, it would be obvious it was no "magic bullet". iirc, it was originally developed for foreign customers, and then made available to domestic market.

WillBrink

06-28-10, 12:43

Ahhhh... sorry, I misunderstood. My point was NJ government exempted themselves from this silly law.

I don't think many agencies issue the EFMJ, it's not less expensive, and afaik, I don't think Federal's ever marketed it as anything other than a round for where HP's are not allowed. They've always been big on ballistic testing, and in any test, it would be obvious it was no "magic bullet". iirc, it was originally developed for foreign customers, and then made available to domestic market.

Which only increases the mystery as to why any dept would issue this rnd. I doubt it has a large % of the LE market, but I do know PDs that issue it and always wonder why.

Jake'sDad

06-28-10, 13:04

Which only increases the mystery as to why any dept would issue this rnd. I doubt it has a large % of the LE market, but I do know PDs that issue it and always wonder why.

I doubt it has a 0.001% of the LE market. I'm not aware of any agencies out West that issue it. I can only believe those that do, are forced to by clueless politicians.

In the early days of 9mm conversions by LE, there were quite a few cities that refused to allow hollow points, (anyone remember the awful 100 grain Winchester Power Points that not only were ineffective, but failed to feed in many guns?) Thankfully, that idiocy seemed to burn itself out 20-25 years ago.

WillBrink

06-28-10, 14:11

I doubt it has a 0.001% of the LE market. I'm not aware of any agencies out West that issue it. I can only believe those that do, are forced to by clueless politicians.

In the early days of 9mm conversions by LE, there were quite a few cities that refused to allow hollow points, (anyone remember the awful 100 grain Winchester Power Points that not only were ineffective, but failed to feed in many guns?) Thankfully, that idiocy seemed to burn itself out 20-25 years ago.

Only to be replaced with brand new shiny idiocy! :eek: