View Full Version : Weird problems with brand new CZ 452
So I buy a brand new CZ 452 in .22 LR, and
1. I figure to run a couple of patches through the bore. So I use my trusty Pro-Shot stainless steel one-piece rod, the same one I've used for years on Mini-14, AR, Marlin .22LR, etc etc. Feels hard to push through the bore, so after a couple of patches I look, and the CZ's bore is engraving rifling onto my stainless steel rod! What's up with that?
2. Bolt is supplied disassembled from the rifle. I go to put the bolt in, it goes in a little way with much difficulty, then seizes up.
Anybody have any ideas? (I know, I'm kicking myself now, I should have bought an American rifle, instead of third-world, but everybody said the CZ was a good gun . . . . )
Uni,
CZ is a good gun. There are always lemons in any bunch but CZ on a whole is normally a lot more rifle for the money.
I wish I could be of assistance with your problem but I don't know what would have caused your issue. I would suggest you go over to rimfirecentral.com and post. There are some very knowledgable CZ shooters on that site and I believe they could offer you some advise.
Good luck and I hope everthing turns out ok.
I suggest contacting the company first and reporting back after you hear from them. If they make it right or don't, tell the board.
I took it back to Gander Mountain from where I bought it. Gunsmith there said the scratches on the cleaning rod possibly could be caused by a burr in the freebore, and that I should clean only from the muzzle end. He had no idea about the bolt problem and put a big pair of pliers on it to try to make it fit. It didn't. I didn't want to spend any more time or money on it, so I think I'm in the market for a real gun.
Once again, I'm amazed at the high failure rate of brand new firearms. What says the group? I'd put it at about 25% across the board.
I took it back to Gander Mountain from where I bought it. Gunsmith there said the scratches on the cleaning rod possibly could be caused by a burr in the freebore, and that I should clean only from the muzzle end. He had no idea about the bolt problem and put a big pair of pliers on it to try to make it fit. It didn't. I didn't want to spend any more time or money on it, so I think I'm in the market for a real gun.
Once again, I'm amazed at the high failure rate of brand new firearms. What says the group? I'd put it at about 25% across the board.
That is not a good answer or very good customer service.....cleaning from the muzzle has ruined more good shooting guns than you can count. It should only be done on guns when you cannot access from the chamber end and with extreme care.
I bet that used 1700 / 54 Sporter is looking good right now. Go with the Anschutz and you will keep it for life.
Good luck!!
thetallengineer
07-06-09, 18:57
CZs typically have a pretty tight bore for whatever reason. I'd suggest buying stuff intended for the .17HMR as this will provide some clearance. I have a 452 Varmint that I have been very happy with and use undersized .17 - .20 cal cleaning devices.
If something is going in with difficulty rarely does pushing even harder solve the problem. Were you holding down the trigger while sliding the bolt into the receiver? Without doing that I doubt you will be able to insert the bolt.
Yes, I was holding the trigger down. The receiver seemed to be undersized for the bolt. The bolt would enter but it was very difficult to slide forward, and after maybe 3/4 inch, it seized up. The Gander Mtn. gunsmith tried something with large pliers--I couldn't see what--but that had no effect.
Anyway, I just sold the stock and the magazines to a member of this forum, so I got some of my money out of it. I bought a new Nikon scope for it, still in the box. I'm going to hang onto that, in case I run across a rifle that works.
Hello Mr. UniVibe,
Don't dispair it is problaby something minor.
First, Just like the TallEngineer said, the tolerances on the barrel are tight. Mine were too. USE a .17 caliber Rod or a .17 HMR BoreSnake.
I was skeptical too. After, reading in several places that a .17 rod should be used. I didn't believe it and I got my ****en Dewey cleaning rod so stuck in the barrel that it took two people to pull-it apart. The moral of the story I learned was not to try a .22 caliber rod in ANY CZ rimfire AGAIN. Yes, I scratched up my brand new $36 coated rod too.
Second, as was already suggested. You must HOLD the trigger back completely, until the bolt is fully seated into the receiver/ bore. If you do not, then the bolt WILL not go into the receiver.
I grabbed my rifle a couple of minutes ago, and removed the bolt. Holding the rifle, and inserting the bolt in the correct fashion, the bolt at eye-level will appear to be at an approximately 45 degree angle. Slowly insert the bolt, WHILE holding the trigger back. As the bolt moves forward, there will be a slight snag as the catch engages and then it should move completely forward and seat into the chamber.
NOTE: When the rifle is new, manipulating the bolt it might seem a little rough. But after a few hundred rounds it will smoothe-out. Use a good quality liquid lubricant on the bolt and inside the action on the sides of the receiver, where the bolt contacts, and it should help.
IF this does not work, can you post a few pictures of the rifles bolt and the reciever area, particularly the rear of the receiver? I hope that the previous suggestions already given have solved your problem.
Lastly, The CZ rifles have extremely good quality control. I keep seeing more shooters using them. It is not a POS. It just has some quirks. You are not the first person to encounter problems with the CZ disassembly or cleaning. I have shown a few CZ owners how to disassmble/ clean their rifles.
I hope everything works-out. Please let us know.
SkiDevil:)
One thing I found really exceptional about the CZ 452, now that I think about it.
In the box there was a target that said it was shot at 50 meters. It was a five shot group that you could cover with a dime. Now, I got to thinking. That rifle shot that good a group even though the bolt wouldn't fit into the receiver. That's pretty impressive. If a CZ can do that, I'd bet if you could get the bolt into the rifle, it'd shoot 'em all through the same hole!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/3699361027_208f5fb823_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3437/3699361043_66b397624b_o.jpg
Hello,
CZ 452 is a fine rifle. I have a varmint in 22lr. The marks on the cleaning rod were probably from the fixed ejector. These will definately scratch a cleaning rod. Also CZ 452 bores are very tight and will require a .17 cal. or a specific rimfire sized cleaning rod. If you did not get yours stuck in the barrel you were pretty lucky.
As far as your bolt binding I am not sure. Maybe you bent the ejector with the cleaning rod and it is binding the bolt. Evidently the bolt fit in the rifle at one time for the factory to test fire it as they all are. Lots of people complain about the bolts being stiff or gritty on new rifles. This can be cured with a little Flitz on the lugs and cocking cams. Cycle the bolt while watching TV or something until smooth.
Sorry to hear you were unhappy with your CZ 452. Hopefully you will get another and give them another chance. After using mine and having experience with several others I feel confident saying you will not regret it.
Sim
Lots of info on rimfirecentral.com if you care to check it out.
One thing I found really exceptional about the CZ 452, now that I think about it.
In the box there was a target that said it was shot at 50 meters. It was a five shot group that you could cover with a dime. Now, I got to thinking. That rifle shot that good a group even though the bolt wouldn't fit into the receiver. That's pretty impressive. If a CZ can do that, I'd bet if you could get the bolt into the rifle, it'd shoot 'em all through the same hole!
Hey UniVibe,
I have to agree with A1Para that you should give the CZ brand a second chance. Problems will occur with any manufacturer's product. It is inevitable that anything mechanical will break or could be flawed.
I can only IMAGINE how f*&^%n pissed-off you are about this whole situation. Yes, it would piss me off too. I forgot about the problem that you had with the Remington Express shotgun. I can only imagine that it adds to the frustration.
I will say one final thing one this topic.
BOX the complete rifle and/ or action (whatever is left) up and send it to CZ. Let them repair/ replace the firearm at their expense.
If the manufacturer does not fix the problem/ address the issue then I would be surprised.
SkiDevil
..............
OTIO
I agree.
as you and I got our rifles at about the same time, IIRC. Mine has been the shit. Tiny tiny little groups at 25 and 50m with basic Yellow Jacket.
Don't give up! It's a great platform.
Yes, I was holding the trigger down. The receiver seemed to be undersized for the bolt. The bolt would enter but it was very difficult to slide forward, and after maybe 3/4 inch, it seized up. The Gander Mtn. gunsmith tried something with large pliers--I couldn't see what--but that had no effect.
Anyway, I just sold the stock and the magazines to a member of this forum, so I got some of my money out of it. I bought a new Nikon scope for it, still in the box. I'm going to hang onto that, in case I run across a rifle that works.
I'm sorry to hear about your problems, especially because I recommend (and use) the 452.
What others said about the tight bore and using a .17 cleaning rod (or .20 or anything smaller than a .22) is correct and good advice.
I can't offer any real insight on the seized bolt. But I think A1para might be right on the fixed ejector getting dammaged (with the full size rod) and being the problem. The ejector may have also dammaged the underside of the bolt.
If you figure it out, please let us know.
I don't have any confidence in that Gander Mountain gunsmith with this problem/gun.
Joe Mamma
Man, I don't mean to be insulting...
But you're 0/2 on assembling 870's, per the 870 thread. You couldn't assemble yours or one at the store. You used a freaking hammer on your brand new 870. An 870, of any model, is very easy to disassemble/assemble...if you read the manual first. Now you're 0/1 on the CZ. There is a common thread running through all this. I think the real problem is operator error. I'm not trying to be rude, but come on.
There is nothing wrong with CZ rifles or Remington 870 Express models. Judging by the fact that you already sold pieces off of the CZ, without even really trying to fix/understand what is going on...I'd say you're spazzing out on them. Sorry, harsh but true.
Take some pictures, I'm interested in seeing the CZ.
Man, I don't mean to be insulting...
But you're 0/2 on assembling 870's, per the 870 thread. You couldn't assemble yours or one at the store. You used a freaking hammer on your brand new 870. An 870, of any model, is very easy to disassemble/assemble...if you read the manual first. Now you're 0/1 on the CZ. There is a common thread running through all this. I think the real problem is operator error. I'm not trying to be rude, but come on.
There is nothing wrong with CZ rifles or Remington 870 Express models. Judging by the fact that you already sold pieces off of the CZ, without even really trying to fix/understand what is going on...I'd say you're spazzing out on them. Sorry, harsh but true.
Take some pictures, I'm interested in seeing the CZ.
Precisely.
Man, I don't mean to be insulting...
But you're 0/2 on assembling 870's, per the 870 thread. You couldn't assemble yours or one at the store. You used a freaking hammer on your brand new 870. An 870, of any model, is very easy to disassemble/assemble...if you read the manual first. Now you're 0/1 on the CZ. There is a common thread running through all this. I think the real problem is operator error. I'm not trying to be rude, but come on.
There is nothing wrong with CZ rifles or Remington 870 Express models. Judging by the fact that you already sold pieces off of the CZ, without even really trying to fix/understand what is going on...I'd say you're spazzing out on them. Sorry, harsh but true.
Take some pictures, I'm interested in seeing the CZ.
I'm not insulted.
Did you read the two threads?
Both 870 Expresses I tried were the same make and model (20 ga. youth) and from the same store. Almost certainly from the same manufacturing lot. The people that worked at the store couldn't reassemble them either. And my venerable 1970s 870 Wingmaster did, and does, dis- and re-assemble in seconds underneath my supposedly inept hands. Look at the bulletin put out by Remington: the 870 Police is made, by their own admission, much better in a separate facility--otherwise the coppers wouldn't buy it.
And the CZ? Gunsmith at the seller's couldn't fix it either, had no suggestions. And he makes his living doing just that.
And my alleged ineptitude does not extend to my 1911s and my ARs, which, magically, dis- and re-assemble just peachy, even when I'm the one doing the work. Or maybe they're all quality guns?
If the car's a lemon, you blame the driver? Not trying to start cyber-guerrilla war here, but the firearms industry really has taken a nosedive in quality control the last decade or so--if Colt has been building such wonderful pistols lately, why Kimber and Springfield? Free market competition, you know. Shooters are in denial that their hallowed brands are making and selling junk, but the sooner we face up to it and start doing something about it, the better.
You didn't post pictures of your CZ and you didn't send it back to CZ to be repaired before you started bashing the company and selling off parts. It seems to me his concerns are well warranted. If there was something wrong with the gun, seems as though you'd contact CZ FIRST.
Post pictures of what? How does an ordinary digital photograph depict an out of spec receiver? How do I take a photograph of a machining error in a freebore with an ordinary digital camera?
And as for selling off the parts, rather than start the "warranty process," I just can't afford to pour time and money into a defective $400 gun. Strange as it sounds, right now I don't have time to go back and forth to UPS, fork over for shipping and insurance, etc. in an effort to make it into something that will shoot a round of ammo.
I'm out about $250 but I learned my lesson; if you want a quality gun, you have to save your money and do it right the first time.
Post pictures of what? How does an ordinary digital photograph depict an out of spec receiver? How do I take a photograph of a machining error in a freebore with an ordinary digital camera?
And as for selling off the parts, rather than start the "warranty process," I just can't afford to pour time and money into a defective $400 gun. Strange as it sounds, right now I don't have time to go back and forth to UPS, fork over for shipping and insurance, etc. in an effort to make it into something that will shoot a round of ammo.
I'm out about $250 but I learned my lesson; if you want a quality gun, you have to save your money and do it right the first time.
Time and money? Well, for one, CZ will cover the cost of shipping. Their turn-around time is about a week. CZ has excellent customer service. I'd wager you spent that much time bitching about it. You didn't even bother calling them. If you drove to a bubba "gun tech" at Gander, you could have shipped the gun.
The CZ is a great quality gun. Too bad you were to stubborn to find out.
Wow.
Your CZ is a POS because you broke it, then took it to a "gunsmith" who tried to fix it with a pair of pliers.
This thread says a lot more about you, than about your CZ, which undoubtedly worked fine before you ****ed it up.
Wow.
Your CZ is a POS because you broke it, then took it to a "gunsmith" who tried to fix it with a pair of pliers.
This thread says a lot more about you, than about your CZ, which undoubtedly worked fine before you ****ed it up.
Thanks for clearing that up, M76F. Very helpful analysis.
hmm
we have 3 452s in our family and all have been flawless and are absolute tack drivers...
have you contacted CZ directly?
KevlarSniper
09-30-10, 20:49
Never had a lick of problems with my CZ. . .maybe you just got a bad gun. . .:confused::confused:
Yep you are right you want a quality gun buy a CZ, ooops thats not what you said, but you are wrong CZ's are very good rifles.
I have a CZ Varmint and a CZ Trainer. They are by far the most accurate .22's I have or have ever owned. With the Trainer that I shortened the barrel to 17" and re-crowned I have shot 1MOA @ 100 yards with it and Federal Lightning ammo. The Varmint is just about as accurate.
Maybe you got a lemon, but I think if you do your research you'll find that yours is not the norm, not even close.
Check over on Rimfirecentral.com, you'll find that almost all over there say they are good rifles also. Read some of my posts on my 2 CZ's over there also and you'll see how good mine are. Also check out the online USBR matches there and how many CZ's hold there own against the other rifles.
A 22 LR bore should be .223 . CZs have tight bores. I own five of their guns and they are all tight. Use a smaller rod. One other thing don't shoot subsonic ammo in the 22lr. It won't make it out of the muzzle.
While we're necro-posting about CZs, might as well trot out my third love. Wife bought it for me during OIF I as a Christmas/Birthday present for $289. The wood is just amazing for the price, and it shoots like a frikkin' laser.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/120mm/PDR_0091.jpg
I have experienced problems with my ZKK 601 back in the '80s similar to the OP, but a trip to a competent 'smith and $20 set it right.
I love the look of those full stock CZs...
A 22 LR bore should be .223 . CZs have tight bores. I own five of their guns and they are all tight. Use a smaller rod. One other thing don't shoot subsonic ammo in the 22lr. It won't make it out of the muzzle.
OK, I've got to disagree with this. I've got the longest barrel (29") model. There is no problem with subsonic ammo being shot out of it. I even have chrono #'s showing it's fine.
But, there can be issues with shooting CB longs and similar rounds out of it. With those, they can get stuck. But, typical subsonics are not a problem.
Joe Mamma
Alpha Sierra
10-08-10, 20:26
CZs typically have a pretty tight bore for whatever reason. I'd suggest buying stuff intended for the .17HMR as this will provide some clearance. I have a 452 Varmint that I have been very happy with and use undersized .17 - .20 cal cleaning devices.
There's the right answer
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.