Czech Please... [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

SteyrAUG

07-08-09, 01:23

As someone who has been buying and collecting guns since the mid 1970s it is my duty to tell you guys that we really are in the middle of a mini "golden age" of gun buying. Recent collectors always talk about how "if only" they had been there before the 86 MG ban, or the 89 Import ban or some other "perfect time" to buy guns. Well I got news for you, right now is that time...the brief period of time following the sunset of the Clinton Ban and right before the BIG ONE that is almost inevitable.

We have so many unique and interesting firearms available to us right now and in huge quantities (even with the current panic buying) and all at current BEFORE THE BAN market prices. And if you think guns are expensive now...just wait. And it probably won't be very long.

So what does the smart collector buy? Well the real smart guys got to work in September of 2004 and started with the obvious choices like a quality AR-15 variant, a Kalashnikov and LOTS of high capacity magazines and a good supply of ammo. So what's next...? Well some people are writing big checks for things like the FN SCAR and others are waiting on the Steyr AUG A3 and perhaps those two HK carbines if they manage to get them to market in time.

But what about the guys who don't have $3,500 to spend on a rifle? Well you can make some good moves for a lot less. And there are some Czech imports that fit that bill nicely. Now maybe it's just me and the fact that as a kid in the 70s I read a lot of "Soldier of Fortune" and "Warriors" magazines (this was in the olden days before Small Arms Review and SWAT magazine existed) so I already knew a lot about the VZ-61 Skorpion SMG and a bit about the VZ-58 but I honestly never thought I'd ever see one.

You see I grew up back before the wall came down when nobody ever even saw a real Kalashnikov and a Finnish Valmet was as close as you could get in this country as all Commie Block weapons were completely unimportable. It really wasn't until right before the 89 import ban that the first genuine (mostly Chinese) AKs were imported and almost as soon as they were they were banned with the 89 import ban. The 922r AKs that followed are truly a marvel to any gun collector who began prior to the passage of FOPA 86.

Well Czechpoint USA has managed to bring in two Holy Grails for long time gun collectors like me. And these are GENUINE Czech produced, correct VZ-61s and VZ-58s. Now there have been some US made (and even some imported) Skorpion copies from a couple decades ago but these were usually Tec 9 quality junk that bore only a passing resemblance to the real thing. But not these, they are high quality imports that only recently began arriving and when (not if) we finally get the next ban these will begin to command very premium prices just like the Pre 89 Polytech imports that were also high quality but imported for a short time.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/7939/00000000078.jpg

Well start out with the VZ-58 which many take as just a Czech Kalashnikov variant. But they are hardly the same rifle. First off the quality of Czech manufacturing is superior to most of the former Warsaw Pact weapon producers with only Poland and Hungary making weapons of similar quality and the VZ-58 is a distinct evolution of the Kalashnikov design.

Here are some key differences:

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-58-rifles/

Sa vz. 58 Comparison to AK-47 Type Rifle with Stamped Receiver

* All vz. 58 rifles possess a milled receiver; the vast majority of AK-47s are stamped.
* Even with the milled receiver it is almost one pound lighter than a stamped AK-47.
* CNC machining on a vz. 58 receiver takes 2 1/2 hours; a stamped AK-47 receiver takes seconds to produce.
* The bolt of the vz. 58 stays open after the last round in the magazine has been fired.
* The vz. 58 can be reloaded with stripper clips while the magazine is inserted in the rifle.
* The vz. 58 has a more natural point of aim and is faster handling.
* The safety is more ergonomic making a faster first shot possible with the vz. 58.
* The ejection port is HUGE. There is no chance of an empty case getting stuck in the action of the vz. 58.
* The vz. 58 gas piston can be removed or exchanged without tools.
* The alloy magazine of the vz. 58 is half the weight of the steel AK-47 magazine. (.42 lb. vs. .84 lb.)
* The vz. 58 is striker fired unlike the hammer fired AK-47. This reduces the number of parts and possible points of failure.

By the end of the1950s, the Sa vz. 58 military issued assault rifle had obtained the impressive combination of weight and length (6.42 lbs and 33.30 inches for fixed stock) to make this rifle the elite among military issued assault rifles of its class.

It remains the only assault rifle of its size that has achieved an empty weight of under 3 kilos.

And the MILLED VZ-58 is a lot handier and even lighter than most stamped (AKM) Kalashnikov rifles. Here are some additional features:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4660/00000000082.jpg

The open top cover makes FTE and similar jams almost impossible.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/2364/00000000083.jpg

Note the high quality blue finish in this photo with decent lighting.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7172/00000000084.jpg

And even the "sporter" compliant muzzle is aesthetically pleasing and doesn't have the "hacked off" look of most import compliance sporters. Keep in mind these are original Czech made guns not just MG kits built on a US made receiver. And there are many choices of configuration and most importantly...these are IN STOCK. No waiting several months to get your hands on one, they can be ordered now.

Now some will balk at the price, about $850 retail because they will compare them to a Romanian Kalashnikov. But one should keep in mind that these are not some WASR 10 conversion nightmare, and when compared to quality Kalashnkovs such as those produced by Arsenal Inc., they are actually cheaper in most cases, especially in the current frenzied market.

Now here is the good part, surplus 30 round magazines are only $13.50 and refinished magazines are only $21.50 and there are many parts and accessories available.

Moving on to my personal favorite, the VZ-61 Skorpion. Ever since my days of reading about international terrorists in SOF and Warriors I've wanted one of those neat little SMGs the bad guys always seemed to use. And since the foreign MG ban in the 68 GCA makes that pretty much impossible this is as close as a collector can get.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/3439/00000000085.jpg

Now most folks will order one in pistol form as I did originally. And with an average retail of about $599.00 these are a really good deal.

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-61-scorpions/

You can then register it as a SBR on a Form 1 and send it to INRANGE C2 for the actual SBR conversion for a very fair price of $175.00

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-...1-scorpion-sbr/ (http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-61-scorpions/sa-vz-61-scorpion-sbr/)

You can read a very detailed history of the VZ-61 Skorpion here:

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/history-of-the-sa-vz-61/

Some of the interesting points are the top ejection, which must truly be an experience in full auto. Note how the folding stock latches onto the front sight.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4083/00000000086.jpg

Here is a side view of the wire stock latched onto the front sight. Notice how the VZ-61 has the same high quality blue finish, but I should stress it isn't this bright under normal lighting conditions.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7011/00000000087.jpg

Here is mine with the wire stock extended.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7417/00000000089.jpg

And here is the notch and groove lock up for the folding stock. Unlocking the stock is a simple matter of pinching the wire stock together and then folding it over the top to latch onto the front sight.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5596/00000000092.jpg

And to give you an idea of how truly compact this one is, here is a picture of a VZ-61 Skorpion next to a 30 round VZ-58 magazine.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5285/00000000094.jpg

20 round VZ-61 magazines are only $24.00 and many parts and accessories are available as well.

And finally a word of caution, CAI also makes a VZ-58 that "looks" like the one here but the difference in quality is dramatic and the difference in price is not much of a savings. Make sure any VZ-61 or VZ-58 you buy is a genuine Czech import that is manufactured by D. Technik. There are also some domestic receiver Skorpions out there but given the collectability of a true Czech import I wouldn't bother with one.

Iraqgunz

07-08-09, 03:33

SteyrAug,

I have an all orginal Vz 58 here in my armory. Let me know if you are interested in detailed pictures of the weapon and markings. It's good to see some of the info that you have put out thus far. Where you been hiding? :D

Savior 6

07-08-09, 03:58

Nice info and thanks for the heads up. I am trying to put together a small collection and typically have a very limited budget. These lower end (price range) collectables are just my type.

d90king

07-08-09, 06:51

Great minds think alike.:D Great platform...
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN1146.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN1147.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN0949.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN0948.jpg

C-Fish

10-10-09, 11:36

Nice review. I have a VZ58.

I had wanted one for some time, so when a trade opportunity presented itself I jumped at the chance.

I have to say the Czech rifle is a very nice piece. I find it much nicer to shoot than an AK47.
It has less felt recoil and IMO is more accurate.

I just wish the magazines were more plentiful and less expensive...

Here is a photo of mine sporting Blonde wood. My local dealer hooked me up.
Mine is a complete Czechpoint rifle.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g296/mseiferth/Guns/DSC_0227.jpg

LH2

10-10-09, 14:18

C-Fish

10-10-09, 17:41

C-Fish - nice looking blonde furniture!

Mine is a CZ-USA D-Technik gun dressed in black, exactly like the one pictured above. I find the greater LOP more comfortable with the black skeleton stock versus the bakelite, although the bakelite does look cool.

Thanks!

I had to ditch the skeleton stock ASAP. Mine was originally configured as a sporter.
You can easily tell due to the fact that mine doesn't have the metal plate on top of the pistol grip.

As a southpaw, I couldn't use the skeleton due to the unnatural curve (benefiting a right handed shooter) on the bottom of the stock.

I also have a set of the Bakelite furniture in case I get bored with the wood...;)

warpigM-4

10-10-09, 18:43

VZ-61 Skorpion has always been one i have wanted.

SteyrAUG

10-12-09, 00:39

VZ-61 Skorpion has always been one i have wanted.

Turned out to be a pretty accurate little semi PDW as well. Certainly grouped better than I expected. Would never be my first pick for Goblin hunting due to the .32 round, but I enjoy the hell out of owning it.

alexd92

10-29-09, 19:12

My CZ-858-2 Tactical
Scout Scope Mount
Burris FastFire
"military" muzzle brake.

Had to chop a part of the rail to be able to get the front handguard off, which I still can't do because a tiny bit which I can't remove, so I'll have to mod the handguard too...anyways here she is.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/images/smilies/Banane01.gif

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb82/sgtpile/firearms/P1010131.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb82/sgtpile/firearms/P1010132.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb82/sgtpile/firearms/P1010133.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb82/sgtpile/firearms/P1010135.jpg

Neutered mag is a canadian thing...

armakraut

10-30-09, 00:51

Who made the scout mount?

alexd92

10-30-09, 11:49

Who made the scout mount?

scoutscopes.com

:p

Haven't tried it yet, so can't say its good/bad.

mattjmcd

11-18-09, 13:50

woodywoodson

11-20-09, 22:21

I am in CA and the only -58's we can get (AFAIK) are the ones with the sporter/thumbhole stocks. Not too bad, but I just can't get enough of my hand into that thing- it's so small.

Still, looks like a hoot to shoot!

If you take a look at czechpoint's website, you will see that we can get the VZ.58 with the standard military hardware with a 10-round mag-lock device:

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-58-rifles/sa-vz58-california-military

mattjmcd

11-22-09, 21:59

Cool. OTOH, this totally fouls up my GP rifle timeline!

bm176

11-23-09, 04:47

great review, i also have a vz58 from czusa would not mind addin a .223 vz from czech point to my collection once they become available

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/111-1.jpg

some tactical stuff
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/082.jpg

JOHNO

11-24-09, 14:15

TOrrock

11-24-09, 15:18

Excellent write up SteyrAUG, it sounds like we grew up around the same time.

Here's my In Range built VZ 58, it was built on one of the first 100 Slovakian recievers imported. Mine is #3 and Templar has #5 :D

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b128/jaodom722/Picture160.jpg

Actually I've got #4 John. :D

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=9923

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/CZStuff/My%20InRange%20vz-58/DSC00412.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/CZStuff/My%20InRange%20vz-58/DSC00420.jpg

Man, I've wanted a vz-61 Skorpion since I read Kokalis' article in SOF back in the mid 80's. A SBR'd Skorpion is on the list of toys, but it's down on the list a bit.

:cool:

JOHNO

11-24-09, 15:43

My mistake, I could'nt remember if you was #4 or 5. :D

sundance435

12-25-09, 10:18

TOrrock

12-25-09, 10:21

I have been interested in the CZ 58 for a while now. However, my only concern is parts availability. Has anyone had something go wrong that they needed parts for it? If so, how easy are they to get?

I might be wrong, but parts commonality between a CZ 58 and an AK is very little to none, correct?

The only thing that interchanges is the ammunition.

I picked up a parts kit a few years ago when Centerfire Systems had them on sale for $55.00.

Those are long gone.

I don't know what the situation is like up in Canada, sorry.

GermanSynergy

01-05-10, 17:14

Wow..... Very nice pics and rifle. You've convinced me to buy the one sitting at my favorite gun shop when they come back in a week from vacation.... :D

GermanSynergy

01-29-10, 11:29

Well, I went ahead and bought a Czechpoint VZ-58 Military model.

Fit and finish are superb, and it gobbled up 120 rds of 1975 vintage Yugoslavian military ball and 100 rds of Barnaul FMJ without a hitch. I like this rifle!

Everyone at the range thought it was an AK variant of some sort, including the rangemaster :)

I'll take it to the range next week and conduct some more formal accuracy tests with different loads.

Rauch Tactical

02-04-10, 00:23

How about a moderized 58

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/suprathepeg/DSC_0095.jpg

RogerinTPA

02-04-10, 10:18

How about a moderized 58

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/suprathepeg/DSC_0095.jpg

I takes away from the classic look, but I do like it.

What kinda rails you got on it? How much weight was added with all your modernization upgrades?

Rauch Tactical

02-04-10, 11:15

Classic shmassic :)

The whole thing weighs about 1.5lbs more then the factory offering depending on setup.

It is part of a complete package we are developing.

d90king

02-04-10, 12:17

Classic shmassic :)

The whole thing weighs about 1.5lbs more then the factory offering depending on setup.

It is part of a complete package we are developing.

No offense, but I think it looks awful and I am sure that it ruins the wonderful balance that the rifle offers. How bout a simple UM type setup? That, I would be interested in. Just something to mount a T1 on would be more than adequate ... Just my humble opinion... Okay maybe not that humble, but you catch my drift.

Rauch Tactical

02-04-10, 12:31

No offense, but I think it looks awful and I am sure that it ruins the wonderful balance that the rifle offers. How bout a simple UM type setup? That, I would be interested in. Just something to mount a T1 on would be more than adequate ... Just my humble opinion... Okay maybe not that humble, but you catch my drift.

To each their own I guess.

The interesting thing about this setup is that it completely changes the function of the rifle from the shooter's perspective. Placing the stock inline with the barrel and higher on the action completely eliminates cheek slap and makes it easier to control then we add the muzzle brake witch not only reduced the already mild recoil but almost completely eliminates muzzle rise. I have dumped mags almost as fast as I can shoot with an IOR 1-4 mounted and watched the rounds hit through the optic.

The end result is no more unwieldy then a similar AR setup.

d90king

02-04-10, 13:14

To each their own I guess. #1

#2The interesting thing about this setup is that it completely changes the function of the rifle from the shooter's perspective. #3Placing the stock inline with the barrel and higher on the action completely eliminates cheek slap and makes it easier to control then we add the muzzle brake witch not only reduced the already mild recoil but almost completely eliminates muzzle rise. I have dumped mags almost as fast as I can shoot with #4an IOR 1-4 mounted and watched the rounds hit through the optic.

The end result is no more unwieldy then a similar AR setup.

#1 True and fair...
#2 I think what you are missing, is part of the beauty of the platform is its lightweight balance and the accuracy that comes with the milled receiver...
#3 I have never really experienced the negatives you mention above out of either of my VZ's.
#4 Now here is where we agree, kinda... If there was a way to mount a T1 in a simple manner like the UM rail that I have on my SA M7 and SGL, then that would be tits.:D

I have a CZ "Tactical" version that I would love to add a T1 to. In fairness, I might be considered from the camp of, less is more! I guess in some ways I see no need to try and make a weapon into something that it isn't... I agree that there are ways to enhance a platform, but to gut them I find useless.

Like you said, to each their own...

GermanSynergy

02-07-10, 06:20

What sling setups are you guys running? I'm taking mine to LAV's AK operator course in May and am shopping around...

Rauch Tactical

02-07-10, 09:22

What sling setups are you guys running? I'm taking mine to LAV's AK operator course in May and am shopping around...

I really like the V-CAS. Simple yet effective.

d90king

02-07-10, 09:57

What sling setups are you guys running? I'm taking mine to LAV's AK operator course in May and am shopping around...

I believe Templar ran one of his for Vickers AK class, I am sure he has pics.;)

30 cal slut

02-23-10, 16:11

can you guys steer me to sources for aftermarket rails (forearm as well as top-cover)?

would love to mount an optic and a sling attachment point, not to mention upgrade from the wood stock that i have.

sevin8nin

02-28-10, 18:28

How about a moderized 58

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/suprathepeg/DSC_0095.jpg

To me the forward handguard just looks too big and gawdy. I appreciate what it's accomplishing functionally, but I just don't like the aesthetics.
If you can sell that top rail separately I know a guy that would be interested to finally be able to mount an optic with eye relief on his 58.

GermanSynergy

03-12-10, 17:53

I shot my VZ-58 at the NRA Range today. 120 rds of 1976 vintage Yugoslav M67 ball. Ran like a top and offhand accuracy was excellent. :)

Seraph

09-21-10, 07:06

VZ 58 is a slick little carbine. Love the simple short stroke piston design. For those who are worried about spare parts - I don't think you'd worry too much, if you became familiar with the innards of the 58. There aren't a whole lot of parts in there, and what parts there are, are very simple and robust.

If anybody's interested in picking up a nice VZ 58, Waffen Werks is currently blowing them out at a stupid low price. Email erin@waffenwerks.com, and the nice lady there will hook you up.

gunBunny

12-05-10, 09:44

yellowfin

01-24-11, 10:51

If I were to get a kit and receiver, what might it cost to have a gunsmith help me put it together if I were to need assistance?

96 SS

01-24-11, 11:12

InRange does a good job on them- give them a call.

They built Dan's SBR from CzechPoint that I got to put hands on at SHOT and it was awesome. It convinced me I need a VZ :cool:

dudley2112

01-24-11, 11:29

The only thing that interchanges is the ammunition.

I picked up a parts kit a few years ago when Centerfire Systems had them on sale for $55.00.

Those are long gone.

I don't know what the situation is like up in Canada, sorry.

seeing as this is as close to many of us up here will ever get to owning an ak type rifle these are quite popular, and reasonably priced (about 700$ new) there are a myriad of parts and upgrades available for them up here from Canadian and other manufacturers such as NEA, BCtactical, and Neit arms.

TOrrock

01-24-11, 11:53

InRange does a good job on them- give them a call.

They built Dan's SBR from CzechPoint that I got to put hands on at SHOT and it was awesome. It convinced me I need a VZ :cool:

Troy Sellars built this one for me using one of the Grand Power receivers.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=9923

alexd92

06-22-11, 15:24

Neit Arms Crusader brake
Scout Scope mount
Burris FastFire II
BFG VCAS sling
Extended magazine release
Tabbed bolt

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb82/sgtpile/firearms/P1020361.jpg

Seth Gecko

08-03-11, 09:45

Here is my CSA VZ-58 carbine.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6131/5986655142_61df74301d_z.jpg

11.75" chrome lined barrel
BC Tactical quad-rail handguard
Galil folder and cheek riser
Magpul AFG and XTM panels
Aimpoint micro T1
KAC Aimpoint quick release mount

Anchor Zero Six

08-03-11, 11:57

Well done!

Set up exactly how I have been planning when if I ever get one.

Is it an SBR or is the brake pin/welded on?

montanadave

08-03-11, 12:01

Seth Gecko

08-03-11, 15:02

The weapon would be a SBR if I lived in the USA but I'm from Canada. The stock was purchased from israeli-weapons.com

308smk

08-24-11, 16:45

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5936/546j.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/546j.jpg/)

Vltor Modstock
Hogue grip
Neit Designs Ambi safety and Bolt release
NEA/Troy Railed handguard and barrel clamp
T1 Micro
Surefire G2 in Vltor offset QD mount
Neit flashhider

Setup I've been playing with all summer. Considering going back to the factory folder as it is used as a truck/ranch rifle. Still not completely happy with it. The flashhider is quite heavy, but the offset mount for the G2 is the absolute tits. With the railed clamp it gives you basically the same rail space as an ultimak would on an AK. Have an NEA lower HG as well but never got around to switching it out. Neat little rifle, needs the original mil bbl though.

helothar

12-05-11, 13:55

http://www.aljazeera.com/video/middleeast/2011/11/2011111352513127803.html

At 2:30 looks like the guys in the center back are carrying VZ. 58s?

CGSteve

12-05-11, 19:28

Nice writeup and even nicer firearms.

I started my obsession with firearms in 2000. I didn't have to suffer through the AWB like many of you did. Hell, I wasn't even old enough during the ban to own handguns. Up until recently, I was one of those who "wished" things were the way they were in the 80s with so many cool guns coming into the country, but now I tend to agree with your sentiment that now is the time for shooters/collectors, albeit in a roundabout way.

I say "roundabout" because although we can have just about any type of firearm out there, for the most part they are not going to be 100% country of origin/manufacture; lots of additional money has to be spent to make certain variants look "correct" as possible through various aftermarket parts and labor and or $200 tax stamp; and some items that are very desirable still cannot be imported any longer due to the 89 ban, thus driving the amount in country to ridiculous prices.

Even still, I agree that it is better to have a filtered down option than to not be able to have them at all. I agree there is an impending ban as well and I think that any gun that can even be remotely deemed "assault" in nature will sky rocket in value. I think the same is true even for less scary firearms, such as WWII era rifles. This is in part due to Hollywood raising their popularity.

Man do I still wish that I was at the point in my life I'm at now when we were able to own real Uzis, MP5s, et al though.

SteyrAUG

12-05-11, 23:05

Man do I still wish that I was at the point in my life I'm at now when we were able to own real Uzis, MP5s, et al though.

You still can, they just cost a little more.

d90king

12-06-11, 07:16

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/beaef780.jpg

CGSteve

12-06-11, 22:28

You still can, they just cost a little more.

I meant without the costing a "little" more part.

twyeh

12-08-11, 02:12

Some of my rug collections

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/36934_10150225061590481_565640480_13553454_4445775_n.jpg
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/36934_10150225061595481_565640480_13553455_3820175_n.jpg

CumbiaDude

12-08-11, 15:56

Some of my rug collections(...)Whoa whoa whoa, now. What's up with the long-barrel Vz? I've never really looked into them much. Was that a real variant or is that something somebody made after the fact? :)

twyeh

12-08-11, 17:52

Whoa whoa whoa, now. What's up with the long-barrel Vz? I've never really looked into them much. Was that a real variant or is that something somebody made after the fact? :)

This longer variant was made for the Canadian market by CZ Hermex, it keeps the barrel length legal for non restricted use.
The barrel length is around 19 inches.

Here are some more of her.
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/41239_10150248318005481_565640480_14257378_1322937_n.jpg
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262752_10150700618470481_565640480_19585256_5187160_n.jpg

CumbiaDude

12-08-11, 18:31

I thought it might be a Canadian thing. Thanks for the info :)

dudley2112

12-09-11, 10:06

I thought it might be a Canadian thing. Thanks for the info :)

ya theres allot of "canadianized" things, worst i saw was a guy with a mini uzi with a 18.5" barrel from back in the day before they became totally prohibited

jonconsiglio

03-07-12, 12:51

I've recently found out about these and have been running one to see how it compares to an AK. I never even knew about them until very recently. So far so good.

Boss Hogg

03-27-12, 19:37

Yesterday I picked one of these up that was on consignment at Virginia Arms from Robb Jensen. It's a beautiful gun. The similarities to an AK are purely external and cosmetic.

I had been thinking about one for a long time, and I'm not sure that the previous owner had even fired it.

I'm glad I found it.

fred

04-28-12, 20:20

Anyone know if these are coming back? someone told me Czec-Point had them (the D-technik ones) back in stock but I can't access the web site from work.

96 SS

04-28-12, 23:08

Czechpoint's page shows all 7.62's in stock.

agrin2005

04-28-12, 23:22

Are the VZ-2008 any good.. I am guessing not since they are century?

ri.ben

04-28-12, 23:43

they aren't as good or as collectable as the czechpoint ones.

vzs don't seem to have the little things wrong with them like aks do.like chicken scratch markings,paint overs after conversions,akm rsbs on 103 clones(like my new sgl 21 94 god damn it)etc.but maybe it's just cause i don't know as much about them.

bm176

04-29-12, 16:08

Are the VZ-2008 any good.. I am guessing not since they are century?

depends on what you want, do you want as close to an orignal vz58 we can get on our shores? if so czechpoint is the place to get one. or if you just want a beater vz58 thats built in the U.S using u.s barrel/receiver and vz parts kit and dont want to spend allot of $$ then the 2008 might be for you. just a heads up czecpoint barrel is .311-312 bore diameter, but the vz2008 is .308....soo if you shoot russian ammo which is .311 down the vz2008 your barrel will wear out faster.

some wood furniture on my vz
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/005-5.jpg
then some tactical stuff
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/291-1.jpg

NongShim

05-01-12, 23:54

How simple is into swap the folder for a fixed stock? Is it possible at all?

armakraut

05-02-12, 00:10

Just need a long screwdriver.

SteyrAUG

05-02-12, 00:10

How simple is into swap the folder for a fixed stock? Is it possible at all?

Extremely simple. Easier than an AK.

Clobbersauras

05-03-12, 21:48

The flashlight is just on there for shizzles, I'm working on a better set up. I've also binned the lightening bolt and replaced it with an OEM version.http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/IMG_1308.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/IMG_1309.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/IMG_0979.jpg

fred

05-27-12, 20:10

These are growing on me, I manhandled one at Scottsdale Gun Club, it felt as good or better than my SLR107.

Query for the group: any of you lefties fired one of these with the folder? Does the hinge "get your nose?"

A UMP fired from the prone just about drew blood on me.

Thanks

SteyrAUG

06-29-13, 12:38

Bumped for Big A who asked me to send him the link but has his settings to not messages from other members.

;)

Big A

06-29-13, 14:08

Bumped for Big A who asked me to send him the link but has his settings to not messages from other members.

;)

Thanks, fixed the PM settings, lol...

bubba04

06-29-13, 14:25

Does anyone know who can install a stock the vz58 pistol?

SteyrAUG

06-29-13, 18:19

Does anyone know who can install a stock the vz58 pistol?

Probably Troy at InRange.

Big A

07-01-13, 12:34

I've always liked these rifles over the AK. They just look so much more refined. I really would like to have both the fixed stock and folder models. I don't know why but I'm a sucker for guns with a folding stock as well as guns with wood furniture.

What is the concensus on these rifles chambered for the 5.56x45?

SteyrAUG

07-01-13, 14:16

Big A

07-01-13, 17:06

Didn't even know they made one. Are they being reconfigured to that caliber or did the Czechs make one? What magazine do they use?

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/rifles/556-x-45-mm/

They use their own mag but I was reading through an old issue of Combat Handguns about the 5.56 pistol version and there is an adapter to fit AR mags. Don't know if they're made by the Czechs or mad here.

I'm surprised you didn't know about these...:laugh:

Big A

07-01-13, 17:31

Here's part of the article I read. In the pics you can see the adapter for the AR mags.

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2013/01/czechpoint-sa-vz-58-5-56mm/

From the info I've found the Czechs are making them and then importing them here.

m4brian

07-01-13, 19:36

Some time ago here on m4c, "Templar" , a SME, expressed doubts on the VZ tilting block action being the most suitable for a higher pressure cartridge like the 5.56.

Heavy Metal

07-01-13, 20:32

Some time ago here on m4c, "Templar" , a SME, expressed doubts on the VZ tilting block action being the most suitable for a higher pressure cartridge like the 5.56.

I don't think it is an issue. The 5.56mm has less bolt thrust overall in spite of the higher pressure.

AR's go thru 7.62x39mm bolts like candy for instance.

graffex

12-13-13, 16:38

How about the compact? I'd love to get my hands on one of these bad boys...

22080

SteyrAUG

12-13-13, 18:23

How about the compact? I'd love to get my hands on one of these bad boys...

22080

Looks like you'd have to try and get your hands on a pistol version then send it to somebody like InRange for the SBR conversion.

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/rifles/762-x-39-mm/sa-vz58-pistol-762/

m4brian

12-15-13, 14:59

I am indeed intrigued. HOW is it shooting a 7.62 VZ 58 pistol WITH a stock????

misanthropist

12-15-13, 20:05

Very, very blasty. Also, in my experience, brief. The action is pretty violent.

I do prefer being behind them to being beside them, however.

Ned Christiansen

12-15-13, 20:43

What ever happened to the 7.62X45, which just going by memory here was the original caliber of the VZ? I think I remember seeing it offered here in the US maybe ten, maybe fifteen years ago.

MadDog

12-17-13, 09:35

I have had my SBR'd VZ61 for almost 6 years now. I love this thing. Yes, it is a range toy but it bump-fires from the shoulder like crazy. I can keep all rounds center mass of a man sized target at 10 yards at a rate of about 650 rpm. With the small 20 round mags that is about two seconds.

MadDog

http://imageshack.us/a/img840/2609/skorpion008.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img840/1290/skorpion007.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img840/5016/skorpion003.jpg

misanthropist

12-28-13, 11:57

I have absolutely no use for one of those but I constantly have to talk myself down from buying one.

platoonDaddy

12-29-13, 07:30

Both are nice firearms. Unfortunately, both are banned in Maryland.

Maryland has always classified the VZ-61 as an "assault pistol". Those have been banned in the state since sometime in the 90's. I saw one that a dealer had taken in trade a few years back. He was going to have to sell it out of state. He could own it on his FFL dealer license but couldn't transfer it in Maryland.

The VZ-58 is an "assault rifle" under Maryland law. Since October 1st, It can't be brought into or transferred within Maryland except to an FFL dealer to sell out of state.

There's also the problem of finding legal 10 round magazines for either of these toys or arranging to buy the larger magazines out of state and physically transport them into the state yourself.

mobed

01-02-14, 15:40

The VZ-58 is an "assault rifle" under Maryland law. Since October 1st, It can't be brought into or transferred within Maryland except to an FFL dealer to sell out of state.

As far as I know the VZ58 is in fact legal to buy/transfer in maryland. That or a lot of people are unintentionally breaking the law. The fact that it is legal in Maryland has made it a very sought after rifle here in the not so free state of maryland.

platoonDaddy

01-03-14, 00:58

As far as I know the VZ58 is in fact legal to buy/transfer in maryland. That or a lot of people are unintentionally breaking the law. The fact that it is legal in Maryland has made it a very sought after rifle here in the not so free state of maryland.

The copycat provision of SB281 would seem to apply to anything that even resembles an "assault rifle". If you have read differently or have an actual state police or lawyer opinion, I'd like to see it.

mobed

01-03-14, 08:32

The copycat provision of SB281 would seem to apply to anything that even resembles an "assault rifle". If you have read differently or have an actual state police or lawyer opinion, I'd like to see it.

Well the law is stupid and confusing but this is what SB281 defines as a copycat "assault rifle"

Under Maryland law, assault weapon also includes a “copycat weapon” which is defined as:

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that can accept a detachable magazine and has any two of the following: 1) A folding stock; 2) A grenade or flare launcher; or 3) A flash suppressor;
A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds;
A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 29 inches;
A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds;
A semiautomatic shotgun that has a folding stock; or
A shotgun with a revolving cylinder.6

The closest match would be the first one as the vz58 has a detachable magazine. But it only meets one of the three conditions "folding stock" if were taking about the folder. The fixed stock version meets no condition other then it has a detachable mag.

Source used http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/bills/sb/sb0281e.pdf (page9/10 for quick reference)

Marylandshooters had a few threads on this topic as well.

Bret

01-05-14, 19:54

http://imageshack.us/a/img840/5016/skorpion003.jpg
Funny, you modified the area around the barrel for the buttstock just like I did.