View Full Version : "Best" AR?
My buddy has traditionally been into hunting and bolt-action bench rest shooting, along with a little handgun in recent years. He has become more interested in some of my brand of things though, but when he asked me "If I were to get an AR, which one would be the best pick?", I honestly didn't know how to answer.
A couple of thoughts come to mind though. He should probably start with something basic, but with the adaptability to modify later (but that's what AR's are so great at, right?). Also, he isn't likely to build or special order anything -- it would have to be handed to him from behind the retailer's counter for him to bite. I figure some brand of basic M4 configuration would be a good start.
The main thing I would want is for him to get something reliable. I would feel like a real heel if he laid out a wad of cash on my advice, to end up having a lot of problems. I've had good luck with my M&P15A (although I did have to get the BC key re-staked first). He has shot it and likes it, but would that be the best one to recommend?
Then there's the whole piston-versus-direct-impingement debate going on now. Should we just avoid that altogether?
Although cost is a factor, I think he recognizes what it takes to get basically good quality.
Thanks for any advice. :)
I'm far from an expert here but I think I can offer you some insight. like anything else, rather than a "best", there is a group at the top and any single one in that group can be considered "best", for whatever reason and application at the moment.
have your buddy become acquainted with the features of the "Best" guns and go about to identify which guns are built including most or all of these features.
there is stickied here a very helpful cross-reference chart, which Rob S compiled, which lists these features by manufacturer. generally speaking, the better guns which include most or all of the features, are at the left.
and before he asks, simply saying, "I had a XYZ gun before that I shot 5 boxes of shells through and it never had a problem", doesn't make it "just as good as" some of the best ones on the list. those features are the bottom line, minimum standard features which define what is acceptable on a hardened, serious use rifle. anything less and it falls into the realm of "hobby" gun.
at this point, it becomes a question of application, preference, and budget. I hope this helps...
John_Wayne777
07-10-09, 07:59
Mission dictates gear. What does he want to do with this rifle? Does he want a varmint gun? A benchrest gun? A general purpose carbine?
If he wants a general purpose carbine the 6920 or the rifles from Daniel Defense would be excellent options.
If he doesn't know enough to know what he wants to do with the rifle yet the 6920 or the DD rifles would be a good starting point.
Use is probably best described as "general purpose" -- weekend range use, with possibly some vague ideas re. HD, SHTF, etc. His ideas are also likely to evolve as he (hopefully) gets more acquainted with the gun. That's why I'm advising stay simple on the features, but keep quality in the guts.
The DD XV is a smokin good deal IMHO.
C4
If he has to buy over the counter, and depending on what prices are like and shops are like in your area, the 6920 may put him off the whole thing, and the DD may be impossible to find. That's what happened with one of my coworkers who went to a neighborhood shop only to find they wanted $1600+ for a 6920 and weren't even aware that DD made a rifle.
For the over-the-counter, weekend-plinker types I think the Charles Daly guns offered the best value but they are non-existant now. Second choice for me would be a S&W, but I'd want to at least check and possibly ream the chamber.
Colt 6920 or DD XV. Either one is a great way to get started without having to worry about reliability or customer service.
Stephen
I don't think I'd call any one in particular best, but I'd say one of the following, in no particular order:
Colt 6920, the new DD XV, or a basic LMT w/ sopmod. I would include BCM but it would probably be easier for him if he can just buy something complete and not have to worry about getting everything separately. Noveske and KAC are also great options but much more expensive and in reality probably overkill for what your friend will use it for.
Thanks for the steers guys. That DD XV sure looks price compatible.
If he has to buy over the counter, and depending on what prices are like and shops are like in your area, the 6920 may put him off the whole thing, and the DD may be impossible to find. That's what happened with one of my coworkers who went to a neighborhood shop only to find they wanted $1600+ for a 6920 and weren't even aware that DD made a rifle.
For the over-the-counter, weekend-plinker types I think the Charles Daly guns offered the best value but they are non-existant now. Second choice for me would be a S&W, but I'd want to at least check and possibly ream the chamber.
Gallery of Guns has a few D-M4LEs. Too bad they cost a bit more than they used to. I also see they have some Charles Daly rifles with a pencil barrel profile and 1-7" twist.
Here's a link for the D-M4LE.
http://www.galleryofguns.com/Genie/Default.aspx?item=CDDM4E16&mfg=Charles+Daly+Defense&mdl=All&cat=2&type=Rifle&cal=223&fin=Blue&sit=All
The Colt 6920 is available for a few C-notes less than that now... All he needs is ammo and a good sling. By the way, I hope he's right-handed. We lefties are ill-served by these (compared to handguns).
SchroederUSMC
07-10-09, 20:16
Hello Blackscot,
I am really impressed by the quality of replies that have been posted above.
When asked the same question of which is the best (by the simplest and most common definition), my answer would have to be a Noveske N4 Light Switchblock.
I believe this may be a good choice given the criteria above. I also believe that John Noveske personally takes an interest in the quality of his rifles. The details of why his rifles are the best have been discussed many times, but the value of his ARs go beyond the specific details. The rifles (or at least uppers) are occasionally available off the shelf at quality gun shops in my area (JAX, FL).
I also did not take cost into account. In this hobby, the cost of the base AR may be one of the cheapest expenditures. You will spend much more in ammo and gear if you contract Black Rifle Disease.
I am not trying to start a debate or post flame-bait. This is just my opinion, yet based in research and experience. I believe that the previous posters are wiser than I am in not specifically picking one answer. I probably would be equally happy with a Colt or LMT for similar reasons. S&W, Charles Daly and Daniel Defense (DD) are relatively new to me but are afforded good reputations.
I hope that this post has answered your question and helped you and your friend,
Rob Schroeder
1*
Gallery of Guns has a few D-M4LEs. Too bad they cost a bit more than they used to. I also see they have some Charles Daly rifles with a pencil barrel profile and 1-7" twist.
Here's a link for the D-M4LE.
http://www.galleryofguns.com/Genie/Default.aspx?item=CDDM4E16&mfg=Charles+Daly+Defense&mdl=All&cat=2&type=Rifle&cal=223&fin=Blue&sit=All
I wouldn't pay $1329 for that gun. Not when Colt 6920s are available for under $1200.
Although Rob has already posted here I would recommend having your friend look at "the chart" and read through it completely. Here's a link: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA. I would think a basic LMT, DD or Colt would be a great starting point off the top of my head. KISS rifle and then go from there.
I wouldn't pay $1329 for that gun. Not when Colt 6920s are available for under $1200.
Agreed. And AIM has the Daniel Defense XV for 1,139.05 plus 1 cent shipping. Not bad!
I wouldn't pay $1329 for that gun. Not when Colt 6920s are available for under $1200.
I checked the instant quote feature and it can cost under $1200 from certain dealers(I paid about 1050 for mine a year or so ago). For that much I agree that a Daniel Defense carbine or 6920 would be a better deal. I was just commenting that they are available again when they have been rare for quite a while.
OldNavyGuy
07-11-09, 08:15
THE BEST AR-15 EVER MADE !!
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/JTravis1964/AR-15/DSC01992.jpg
if you can find one for under $1500.00.., jump on it, do not hesitate, haggle or "i gotta ask the wife", just whip out that cash filled wallet and buy, if you find one and don;t want it just send the info to me and it will be mine ASAFP :D
Parabellum9x19mm
07-11-09, 08:59
i guess best is in the eye of the beholder
a 20" carry handle would never be the "best" for me
:D
THE BEST AR-15 EVER MADE !!
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/JTravis1964/AR-15/DSC01992.jpg
if you can find one for under $1500.00.., jump on it, do not hesitate, haggle or "i gotta ask the wife", just whip out that cash filled wallet and buy, if you find one and don;t want it just send the info to me and it will be mine ASAFP :D
In your eyes what makes that rifle the "best". I think it is a great rifle for some uses, but I can think of many others that there are better options. Early SP-1 rifles with no forward assist I consider a negative in real world usage. As collectors I like them a lot... I have a later Green Label that I like a lot and am considering using the upper for a SPR build, but with the A2 handle, I think it limits optics to much to really be an effective option.
Ridge_Runner_5
07-11-09, 12:30
IMO, the two best brands are Noveske and LaRue..they are pricey, but about as accurate an AR out of the box you can get out of the box...
Beat Trash
07-11-09, 13:46
Colt 6920 or DD XV. Either one is a great way to get started without having to worry about reliability or customer service.
Stephen
Blackscot,
Notice a trend starting to emerge?
I was told as a child, "Buy quality, and you only have to buy once". This was in reference to tools. I feel the same applies to guns.
While any manufacture can have an individual product sold with some issues, you are less likely to have issues with the Colt, or the DD guns.
I have no experience with the DD guns, but I have heard alot of good things about them. I own a few of the Colt 6920's. Have one for each member of the family (pet dog not included, yet...) When I bought them, I trust that these guns were more likely to be good-to-go from the start. So far, they are.
I am not saying other manufactures can not produce a serviceable product, they can. The newer M&P's for example seem to be nicely built guns. But if your buddy is new to the game, then he might not know what to be on the look for, as far as quality control, ect.
Buying an AR15 should not be like buying your first "starter home". One should not assume they have to buy a gun, knowing they will outgrow it's potential as their skill and experience level grows. Instead, spend a couple of dollars more and get a platform that's GTG, no matter your skill level.
I feel the Colt 6920 and possibly the DD guns, (remember I have no first hand experience with the DD guns), would make good starting platforms for an individual, be they a new AR owner, someone with 30 years of experience with the system, a LEO, or what ever.
Now that the pricing and availability of AR's is starting to come back to normal, the Colt's and the DD's are much easier to justify than going with some of the other guns out there, like S&W, Rock River, BM, ect.
There are other guns available that are of at least equal quality to the Colt 6920. some might even argue they are superior. Noveske's guns for example. But as Blackscot's buddy is a novice, looking for a gun for weekend usage, HD and SHTF usage, then the extra money a Noveske would set him back might not be worth it to that type of user.
Blackscot, whatever gun your buddy decides upon, please try to talk him into setting some money aside for some ammo, and some qualified training.
Thanks for all the replies folks. :)
Gee, that Colt 6920 sure keeps coming up a lot. Maybe I should look into one of those....? :rolleyes: I bought/sold/traded a pile of their 1911's back during the 80's-90's.
Robb Jensen
07-13-09, 07:20
Blackscot,
Also take a look at the S&W M&P15 MOE. They are under $1200.
I would jump on the Colt 6920, I bought a L.E. Colt during the ban, it has went through numerous changes and is still kicking.
Also, check out the S&W AR-15t, we have two for instructor guns. We just had them re-barreled, we had put 15,000 rounds + in a year.
In these ammo tight times I doubt your friend will put that many rounds through a weapon in a year.
Both rifles were rarely cleaned just lubed a lot. I cleaned them up before John at Shooter's put new barrels on them and it looked like I had a pile of carbon cornflakes on the bench when I was done.
When John looked at the barrels he thought we had them on full-auto lowers, the rifling was all but gone. He put the new barrels on and we are running the rifles just as hard and still have not had any real malfunctions other than ammo or mag induced issues.
I have not had a DD, put I have never heard about any issues with the company or their rifles.
Gee, that Colt 6920 sure keeps coming up a lot. Maybe I should look into one of those....?
I honestly have a have a difficult time comprehending how someone who has been an active member here for nearly 2.5 years would not essentially already know the answer to this question as well as the intricacies of determining what the "best" AR is. Don't see you much in the general forums, so what's your excuse? ;)
I am not taking a shot at you, as you seem like a nice guy looking to help someone out. But I do wonder what you might have been missing to ask this extremely broad and possibly even invalid question.
The 6920 is probably the best base gun for the money. It has been stated and verified here more times than I could possibly count. The DD Grant mentioned sounds like a good deal, though. If he just wants a range gun, there are many lesser priced variants that will do.
Yes, see the chart as suggested. Then go with what fits. It's an easy read.
Either that, or he's being ironic.
Smuckatelli
07-13-09, 13:24
Either that, or he's being ironic.
Me thinks it is easier for him to give his buddy advice if it is not only his advice.
"No good deed goes unpunished."
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