View Full Version : Legal question. SBR stuff
I have an 14.5" barreled upper that I am selling because I don't want it. I purchased it along with a bunch of other things as a lot. At the time I didn't realize it was a 14.5", or I probably would have passed on it. I ordered a Phantom 5C1, with the intent of either SS or pin/welding the Phantom on it. I've decided I don't want it and would rather just sell it, to buy a nice trigger and some other things.
I realize that the upper itself is not considered a firearm, but the ATF can be very creative about things when it suits them. The whole constructive intent crap is just mind boggling. I can't even explain it to people without stating several times "yeah it's as dumb as it sounds".
So my question is, Is it okay for me to sell the 14.5" upper on gunbroker? Any issues I could run into? Are all legalities the responsibilty of the buyer? It's not even consider a firearm right?
Uppers are not restricted at the federal level.
Any legal ramifications would be the responsibility of the buyer.
Just add "All NFA rules apply" to your ad, and you should be covered.
Thanks, that's what I thought but just wanted to be absolutely sure.
i've also sold 14.5s on gun broker, and after the first episode i started adding "will not ship to ban states, so don't bid" or something to that effect.
i don't know what the legal ramifications are of sending an SBR barrel to NY, CA, NJ, IL, etc- but i know these items aren't allowed in ban states, and i've read/heard (don't recall exactly where) that these states have gone after people and/or dealers for shipping restricted items to their states, in the form of civil suits.
the first 14.5 i sold was to a guy in NY- and i ended up sending him his money back. he'd had one negative feedback (his only feedback) from trying to buy something not allowed in his state, so i figured i should check into it. after literally 4 days of calling and waiting for return calls from just about every single agency in the state of NY, and most of them telling me "my understanding of NY laws is that you cannot ship this item to anyone in our state," i finally told the guy no.
i try not to be a paranoid asshole about these little gay legalities, but the whole thing seemed like an unnecessary risk. so, like i said, i just spell it out in the auction- no ban states. last thing i need is the state of NY suing me.
RetreatHell
07-12-09, 09:34
Just curious, what brand/make and model is your 14.5" upper? Is it complete?
It is a Model 1 Sales, that came from them complete.
Flat top. Carrier is chrome lined. Barrel does not appear to be chrome lined. I thought it was, but after taking a closer look I can't see that it is.
Here's the auction. It's met reserve, so I am obligated to sell it to the winner.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133717489
Can I ship this thing to California?
I think I might err on the side of caution and refund his payment. Even though you had a disclaimer about making sure it's legal in their locale if something were to happen is it worth the selling price?
California has some quirky laws. I never had a problem getting standard uppers but the SBR thing does add another headache.
Can I ship this thing to California?
RetreatHell
07-14-09, 21:10
Can I ship this thing to California?
If the flash hider/muzzle break is permanently pinned/welded/attached then YES, you can ship it to Cali. I just sold a 14.7" LWRC upper with perm attached FH to guy there. If it's NOT perm attached, then I would NOT sell it/ship it to anyone in Cali. Not sure if it's illegal to do it or not, I ONLY know that it's gtg with a perm attached FH.
-Paul
youre in the exact same situation i was in with the guy in NY. refund or tell him not to send payment, would be my advice- and in future auctions, inform the reader that you will not ship to ban states.
at least the NFA stuff. i'd ship a permed 14.5 to anyone.
RetreatHell
07-14-09, 22:39
Okay I'm retarded. I just saw that you said you did NOT ever have your FH permanently attached. So that means DO NOT ship it or sell it to anyone in CA.
I apologize for my earlier lazy post.
-Paul
Not all ban states are equal. In MA it is perfectly legal to possess SBR uppers - the same rules as everywhere else apply.
The whole constructive intent crap is just mind boggling.
No. It's internut fantasy.
Like one of the guys here in AZ said.... if you have an ink pin, you've got constructive intent to commit forgery.
Can I ship this thing to California?
You're not subject to California Law. It's the buyers problem.
Mark,
I knowwhat you're saying but California has some confusing laws and SBR's, MG's and all the good stuff are not available to Joe Blow. With the whacked out anti-gun NAZI's that are there I wouldn't be surprised if they charged you with something.
Maybe he could locate a licensed "dangerous weapons dealer" and see what they say. They are usually a little more in the know about stuff.
You're not subject to California Law. It's the buyers problem.
Mark,
I knowwhat you're saying but California has some confusing laws and SBR's, MG's and all the good stuff are not available to Joe Blow. With the whacked out anti-gun NAZI's that are there I wouldn't be surprised if they charged you with something.
Maybe he could locate a licensed "dangerous weapons dealer" and see what they say. They are usually a little more in the know about stuff.
"dangerous weapons dealer?" please tell me there's not a distinction between "dangerous weapons" and the other kind of weapon in california...?
Short barrels can be used on pistol AR15s and are most likely legal to posses in ban states.
It's a play on words. The laws pertaining to evil weapons is referred to as the "Dangerous Weapons Control Law". SO obviously one would need to be a "dangerous weapons dealer". :p
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12000.php
"dangerous weapons dealer?" please tell me there's not a distinction between "dangerous weapons" and the other kind of weapon in california...?
It's a play on words. The laws pertaining to evil weapons is referred to as the "Dangerous Weapons Control Law". SO obviously one would need to be a "dangerous weapons dealer". :p
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12000.php
"2008 Dangerous Weapons Control Law"... they invented the term and defined it in a legal context, just so they could officially use the term "dangerous weapon" in place of "gun."
"2008 Gun Control Law" just wasn't scary enough, i guess. are all california politicians from hollywood?
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