View Full Version : Long term storage problem
I was talking to my Dad today and he told me that he has some guns, mostly rifles and shotguns, that were kept in an underground climate controlled bunker and he hasn't checked on them in about three years (yeah I know). Now they're all rusted, it sounds like surface rust, but I asked him to get some pictures of them and to look for pitting in the metal. If they are rusted does anybody have an idea of what I could have him do? I live about 2200 miles away and I won't be able to make it out there for about three months, he lives in Idaho and inherited most of them, so does anybody know of somebody he could talk to about getting them checked out and repaired?
How were they stored? Any long term firearm storage plan would include (in my opinon), slathering the metal with cosmoline (or a heavy grease) at minimum. In a "bunker" or elsewhere.
The guns in my safe at least have a film of CLP on them, and they're in my house!
Ah man this sucks, so my dad told me that he and my great uncle built this bunker thing about 15 years ago. Most of the guns have pitting on the barrels and several won't function. I think I'm gonna call the closest gunsmith and ask him to take a look and see what's salvageable. Crap:mad:
RogerinTPA
07-12-09, 17:34
Guess the climate control did work too well. That absolutely sucks. It sounds like it's gonna be a very expensive salvage operation. He would have been better off just storing them in those plastic storage weapons bags, after hosing them down with WD40. I hope they weren't too expensive or rare pieces.
oh the Horror! i hate to hear of weapons that rust up:(
Thomas M-4
07-12-09, 17:59
Hose them down with CLP until they are dripping wet and let them set out in the sun for a couple of hours. If it is light rust he should be able to get it off with some OOO steel wool by lightly rubbing them down with a CLP soaked steel wool. The bluing should be mostly intact after wards. If its pitted he will probably have to refinish them.
...and he hasn't checked on them in about three years (yeah I know)...
Yeah I know is right. No offense to you, but anyone who doesn't check on their firearms for 3 years most likely really shouldn't have them in the first place for several basic reasons.
I damn near cry every time I read a thread like this. A buddy of mine uses some space bag thing for long term storage. He removes all the air, puts the firearm in it oiled up, and has never had an issue. He does this when he is being shipped out for an undetermined amount of time. You might want to try something similar...
A good restorer will be able to help you out. Try and avoid refinishing anything old...
Yeah I know is right. No offense to you, but anyone who doesn't check on their firearms for 3 years most likely really shouldn't have them in the first place for several basic reasons.
Ditto. But maybe there are/were circumstances. But still...... Damn!
dog
As long as we are on the subject, any opinions on storing firearms simply by wiping them down with a silicone rag, including the inside of the barrel, and placing them, along with a dessicant pack, in a Pelican case? Pelican cases are supposedly air tight, and if the open cell foam is removed, there should be nothing to hold any moisture, and the dessicant should grab any in the atmosphere.
One can include a VCI strip as well, but these recommend the gun be oil free, an that would include the silicone rag wipe down as well (I think).
If coating the metal is still required, wouldn't you need a RIG or Cosmoline type compound that won't run, and wouldn't you also need to completely detail strip the components to coat each and every piece of metal?
I'm hoping leaving the guns assembled, a good rub down with silicone rag, a packet of dessicant (and perhaps the VCI strip) and an airtight box will be all that is needed for long-term (multiple year) storage.
Pelican cases are great for transport, but what do you think that foam is full of? Air perhaps? There's a reason they pack old guns in cosmoline. It keeps the available air off the steel. Short of using cosmoline, use a heavy oil and remove as much air as is practical. Check on them from time to time.
Personally, I store all my guns in a safe and inspect them from time to time. After all, any gun that cannot be accessed in short order for it's intended purpose is nothing more than a paperweight. If you're worried about someone coming for your guns, it'll most likely be too late by the time you hear about it anyways. It's not really that scary yet, is it?
Shoot what you own, enjoy what you own. You'll probably die before they're worthless anyways, so enjoy them for what they are.
Personally, I love to handle and clean and admire the history of many of the guns I own. They most likely have more stories to tell than I ever would. I own some old (really old) guns, and they bring a smile to my face every time I handle them. Many belonged to relatives, many have stories I've heard. Others not so much. Some I've gotten thru trades and purchases, and I can only imagine by their condition what they've been thru. Some guns are a piece of history, take care of them often.
Thomas M-4
07-13-09, 00:07
I have stored firearms for a extended time 12 months I guess you could call that extended. I didn't have cosmoline I just used wheel bearing grease covered all of my rifles in it then placed them into garbage bags pressed all the air I could out of them then tied them off. No rust when I finally got back to them just cleaned the grease off with brake cleaner then re oiled them.
Pelican cases are great for transport, but what do you think that foam is full of? Air perhaps? There's a reason they pack old guns in cosmoline. It keeps the available air off the steel. Short of using cosmoline, use a heavy oil and remove as much air as is practical. Check on them from time to time.
Personally, I store all my guns in a safe and inspect them from time to time. After all, any gun that cannot be accessed in short order for it's intended purpose is nothing more than a paperweight. If you're worried about someone coming for your guns, it'll most likely be too late by the time you hear about it anyways. It's not really that scary yet, is it?
Shoot what you own, enjoy what you own. You'll probably die before they're worthless anyways, so enjoy them for what they are.
Personally, I love to handle and clean and admire the history of many of the guns I own. They most likely have more stories to tell than I ever would. I own some old (really old) guns, and they bring a smile to my face every time I handle them. Many belonged to relatives, many have stories I've heard. Others not so much. Some I've gotten thru trades and purchases, and I can only imagine by their condition what they've been thru. Some guns are a piece of history, take care of them often.
So true. Nicely said, friend. Treat them all as old friends. Even the new ones. They'll become old and good friends really soon. How fortunate we are. Love and take care of every firearm. Even if it is a cheap, used (example, no insult intended) Raven Arms .25 Auto. It is a right most people on Earth don't get the privilege to touch or even own. God bless America!
dOg
I am not referring to storage to prevent confiscation. That's really hiding the gun(s), and if successful, they won't really be available for use if and when needed. Some have said if it really gets that bad, we need to take our guns out of storage, but that is a political and philosophical discussion for another thread.
I have several firearms at home kept available for different purposes. Self-defense and defense of family being the primary, but I also train, compete, and sometimes, teach. In some cases, I have multiple copies of the same gun. These are the guns that I never want to be without, even for a short period of time. Whether it's a rifle for defense against riots or a hand gun for personal defense, these are the guns that fit the "what would you keep if you could only have one gun" question.
In this case, my reason for storage is to protect against theft and fire, not the authorities. A gun safe will not provide the kind of fire protection I seek (not for what I can afford to spend), and theft is still a potential when my family is out of town. I don't like keeping all my eggs in one basket.
Off-site storage is what I have looked for. I have found several solutions, but the one thing they have in common is a lack of ready access to me. Therefore, I want a method of storage which will keep the gun, ammo, and various support parts safe from the elements for a long period of time - years would be nice. Not that I won't check on them for several years, just that I don't want to have to check on them.
Cosmoline is great, but was designed for a time when guns were blued, had wood stocks, and were buried underground in wood crates. If Pelican cases are air tight, why not treat the metal, absorb any moisture left in the air tight case, and leave it alone. After all, either the case is air tight or its not. I'm not talking about burying it under 100 feet of salt water, or on the top of Mount Hood. Just kept inside, under normal climate conditions, but unchecked by me for extended periods of time.
Do I really need Cosmoline, or RIG, or whatever? If I do, would I not want to completely detail strip the gun, down to component springs, pins, and whatever, for treatment? After all, if the barrel can rust, so can the locking block. If the cylinder can rust, so can the pawl. If the bolt can rust, so can the disconnector. You get the idea.
Finally, I have removed all foam from the Pelican case. I use it simply as an air tight empty box. I fill it with gun, parts, ammo (in plastic MTM cases), a dessicant pack, and perhaps a VCI strip.
Have I done enough, should I coat with oil, or go with Cosmoline? Some of the parts are polymer (Glock frame and mags). These have metal components attached (slide rails and magazine inserts). Can these polymer parts be exposed to something like Cosmoline for extended periods of time? I always thought solutions containing petroleum distillates were supposed to be kept from plastics and polymers?
Thomas M-4
07-13-09, 12:32
I am not referring to storage to prevent confiscation. That's really hiding the gun(s), and if successful, they won't really be available for use if and when needed. Some have said if it really gets that bad, we need to take our guns out of storage, but that is a political and philosophical discussion for another thread.
I have several firearms at home kept available for different purposes. Self-defense and defense of family being the primary, but I also train, compete, and sometimes, teach. In some cases, I have multiple copies of the same gun. These are the guns that I never want to be without, even for a short period of time. Whether it's a rifle for defense against riots or a hand gun for personal defense, these are the guns that fit the "what would you keep if you could only have one gun" question.
In this case, my reason for storage is to protect against theft and fire, not the authorities. A gun safe will not provide the kind of fire protection I seek (not for what I can afford to spend), and theft is still a potential when my family is out of town. I don't like keeping all my eggs in one basket.
Off-site storage is what I have looked for. I have found several solutions, but the one thing they have in common is a lack of ready access to me. Therefore, I want a method of storage which will keep the gun, ammo, and various support parts safe from the elements for a long period of time - years would be nice. Not that I won't check on them for several years, just that I don't want to have to check on them.
Cosmoline is great, but was designed for a time when guns were blued, had wood stocks, and were buried underground in wood crates. If Pelican cases are air tight, why not treat the metal, absorb any moisture left in the air tight case, and leave it alone. After all, either the case is air tight or its not. I'm not talking about burying it under 100 feet of salt water, or on the top of Mount Hood. Just kept inside, under normal climate conditions, but unchecked by me for extended periods of time.
Do I really need Cosmoline, or RIG, or whatever? If I do, would I not want to completely detail strip the gun, down to component springs, pins, and whatever, for treatment? After all, if the barrel can rust, so can the locking block. If the cylinder can rust, so can the pawl. If the bolt can rust, so can the disconnector. You get the idea.
Finally, I have removed all foam from the Pelican case. I use it simply as an air tight empty box. I fill it with gun, parts, ammo (in plastic MTM cases), a dessicant pack, and perhaps a VCI strip.
Have I done enough, should I coat with oil, or go with Cosmoline? Some of the parts are polymer (Glock frame and mags). These have metal components attached (slide rails and magazine inserts). Can these polymer parts be exposed to something like Cosmoline for extended periods of time? I always thought solutions containing petroleum distillates were supposed to be kept from plastics and polymers?
You could try storing individual arms in these long term storage bags http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=812618 but I would at least put a healthy dose of motor oil covering the firearm before placing in bag. For ammo a good quality GI ammo can is air tight and some guys place a small piece of dry ice in the can to push oxygen out of the can before they seal it.
Those storage bags are fine, but whenever I've seen different types of VCI products, they all say to remove all oils from the metal. The metal should be clean and dry. If the gun does not have bare metal (as in no oil or grease), the VCI chemical can't reach the metal pores and is therefore useless.
So what's better - grease that won't run off or evaporate, a coating of oil that may run off or evaporate, a good rub down from silicone rag that won't run or evaporate, but really isn't considered "long-term", or dry metal with VCI?
Yeah I know is right. No offense to you, but anyone who doesn't check on their firearms for 3 years most likely really shouldn't have them in the first place for several basic reasons.
I hear you. No offense taken. It's weird because I didn't even know he had them, he inherited them from my grandfather and hasn't touched them since he got them. He's never showed any interest in firearms and I can't recall him ever handling one so I don't think he knew exactly what he was doing with them. I gotta call somebody up there to check them out and see what it'll take to fix them and I offered to take them off his hands. Hopefully they're not all trashed, but I'll find out in after they get checked out.
Thomas M-4
07-13-09, 15:07
Those storage bags are fine, but whenever I've seen different types of VCI products, they all say to remove all oils from the metal. The metal should be clean and dry. If the gun does not have bare metal (as in no oil or grease), the VCI chemical can't reach the metal pores and is therefore useless.
So what's better - grease that won't run off or evaporate, a coating of oil that may run off or evaporate, a good rub down from silicone rag that won't run or evaporate, but really isn't considered "long-term", or dry metal with VCI?
Are these VCI ?http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1154/Product/TRIPLE_TOUGH_trade__PREMIUM_STORAGE_BAGS The longest I have ever stored was 1 year so my experience is limited. I know I would not feel safe unless the firearm was coated in some kind of oil or grease. If the bag is air tight and you have a good coating of oil or grease It should store for many years.
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