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Was watching a news report on the surge and noticed all M4's had rails and vertical foregrips;some even had BUIS with optics.Are the GI's supplied these as such or do they mod them themselves?I.E. there is no standard anymore;do what ever makes you better?Just curious;no disrespect meant towards anyone or any branch.
Most things should be issued. It depends what units you are at as to how much leeway you'll get with using personal stuff.
Bread is People
07-12-09, 11:05
I've also been noticing that there are pmags in use over there, more than before (at least from what I've noticed on the news).
Was watching a news report on the surge and noticed all M4's had rails and vertical foregrips;some even had BUIS with optics.Are the GI's supplied these as such or do they mod them themselves?I.E. there is no standard anymore;do what ever makes you better?Just curious;no disrespect meant towards anyone or any branch.
There is a standard piece of equipment used for all of these. A quick rundown of the main stuff follows:
The Knights Armament RAS is the standard handguard used on the M4 and M16A2/A3/A4.
The standard BUIS is the Matech.
The standard foregrip is the Knights Armament vertical grip.
The standard optics are the Aimpoint M2 (M68), TA31F ACOG, and TA31RCO ACOG.
In special operations command, there are some different pieces of gear that are standard on the M4A1.
The Knights Armament RIS is used.
The standard optics are the TA01NSN ACOG, the TA01ECOS ACOG.
The Knights 300m BUIS is the standard rear sight instead of the Matech.
You will find other pieces of gear being used. These would come from commercial sources and are not a standardized item.
There are also LOTS of conventional Army units over here using EoTechs so they would be considered standard as well. ;)
There is a standard piece of equipment used for all of these. A quick rundown of the main stuff follows:
The Knights Armament RAS is the standard handguard used on the M4 and M16A2/A3/A4.
The standard BUIS is the Matech.
The standard foregrip is the Knights Armament vertical grip.
The standard optics are the Aimpoint M2 (M68), TA31F ACOG, and TA31RCO ACOG.
In special operations command, there are some different pieces of gear that are standard on the M4A1.
The Knights Armament RIS is used.
The standard optics are the TA01NSN ACOG, the TA01ECOS ACOG.
The Knights 300m BUIS is the standard rear sight instead of the Matech.
You will find other pieces of gear being used. These would come from commercial sources and are not a standardized item.
There is a standard piece of equipment used for all of these. A quick rundown of the main stuff follows:
The Knights Armament RAS is the standard handguard used on the M4 and M16A2/A3/A4.
The standard BUIS is the Matech.
The standard foregrip is the Knights Armament vertical grip.
The standard optics are the Aimpoint M2 (M68), TA31F ACOG, and TA31RCO ACOG.
In special operations command, there are some different pieces of gear that are standard on the M4A1.
The Knights Armament RIS is used.
The standard optics are the TA01NSN ACOG, the TA01ECOS ACOG.
The Knights 300m BUIS is the standard rear sight instead of the Matech.
You will find other pieces of gear being used. These would come from commercial sources and are not a standardized item.
Thank you but at what point are they modded?
My best friend's unit in the 10th MTN gets issued grip pods.
faawrenchbndr
07-12-09, 14:50
My Son-in-Law is ANG. He is said the Soldier's in HIS unit are able to upgrade
some parts pieces. Stocks, VFG, rail covers, lights. Optics, mags, sights are "as issued" from the Unit..... no deviations.
I've also been noticing that there are pmags in use over there, more than before (at least from what I've noticed on the news).
The number of units/organizations issuing PMAGs is growing daily. I used to be surprised when I saw a PMAG on the news or in a photo...now I'm almost surprised when I don't.
SwatDawg15
07-12-09, 15:24
The number of units/organizations issuing PMAGs is growing daily. I used to be surprised when I saw a PMAG on the news or in a photo...now I'm almost surprised when I don't.
Thats a good thing :o
A lot of units that aren't issued these things buy the stuff COTS (Commercial off the Shelf) with their pre-deployment money. I know we did. Of course, there are probably very few units who aren't kitted out by now.
Thank you but at what point are they modded?
The rails/VFG's/optics are typically installed by unit armorers before the rifles are ever issued to the troops.
all the troops i saw while in iraq (06-07) had optics and all the ground pounders had rails and optics. mix of eotech, aimpoint, and acog's. i think the rails were mostly kac.
Thanks to all.Question answered.
Alot of the Comp M2's have been replaced with Comp M4's and alot of the PEQ2A's have been replaced with ATPIALs. The KAC rails and vert grip are still standard as well as Grip Pods.
Big Army - M4 MWS Carbine from Colt - comes with M4 RAS and Matech BIS
Issued optic M68 CCO (in either M2, M3 or M4 versions)
RFI optics, TA31 series of ACOG's, and EOTECH 552
SOCOM - M4A1 comes from Colt with M4 RAS and 300m BIS
Issued optic EOTECH 553, TA31DOC, ELCAN Spectre-DR
Impact card optics - you name it, it will have been bought...
Our M4 RAS Mil-pack comes with the vert grip and an assortment of rail panels
Thanks Kevin;always good to hear from the horses mouth.
Before I left we got a new style rail for the M16s with M203's mounted, Ill try to find out who made it. Definitely wasnt the M5 RAS I used. In 06' before we deployed I received TA01NSN's and Comp M2 versions of the M68 CCO with gooseneck mounts. Since leaving Ive heard the unit replaced the M2's with M4's but the same M16A2 rifles remained.
I wrote up the MWS kits that are now making it into the MTOEs and RFI back in Dec, 2004 at Belvor. At that meeting the decision was made to pure fleet the BCTs with the M-4, recognizing that it would take a few years to make it happen. The position was pushed by the 10th MTN, 101st and 82nd. At the time only the 10th MTN had M-16;s in any sizable numbers.
Over the course of about two hours I worked out three levels of kit, which after lots of massaging by DCD, TACOM, PICA and others basicly came out like the original proposal. 5 years later the info has been mostly applied to deploying units.
That december draft was first breifed formaly to the best of my knowledge on or about 10 FEB, 2005 as the:
"Rules of Allocation M4 & M249 Modular Weapon systemsand Night Vision Devices"
The field requests Modular Weapons System Kits to meet oganizational and operational needs.
The Rapid Field Initiative (RFI) program and unit purchases are meeting selected requirements.
A need has been identified for the development of kits to allow more flexibility for the Warfighter & Combat Commanders.
USAIC tasked to develop MWS Kit ROA’s for the IBCT, HBCT, CMD & Staff, and UEx.
M4 offers the lethality, mounting surfaces, and maneuverability required in the close combat fight.
Create three M-4 MWS Kits to fill different base line requirements.
M4 MWS Kit ROA’s
MWS-A
Components: Rail System, CCO, PEQ-2/PAQ4, Tac Light, vertical grip, BUIS
Assign to: (Deleted) in BCTs
MWS-B
Components: Rail System, ACOG, PEQ-2, Tac Light, vertical grip, BUIS, TWS-L, Bipod
Assign to: (Deleted) in BCT CS/CSS.
MWS-C
Components: Rail System, CCO, BUIS
Assign to: (Deleted) remaining CS/CSS
We also worked out the rules that would allow the commanders and staff to recieve the M-4 and the M9 they were formerly documented for. Again the basic outline changed very little form the draft we developed.
Issue:
Field requests recoding selected command & staff positions personnel remarks to “16”, armed with pistol and rifle or carbine
Discussion:
Command & Staff personnel perform critical tasks requiring movement through hostile volatile areas of the theater. Pistols do not provide enough firepower to react to enemy contact.
Missions places Command & Staff in role of “Ground Combat Soldier” without the proper weapon for the fight.
The M4 MWS provides the level of lethality critical to survive in operating environments.
Recommendation:
Identify select positions without a rifle within the BCT staff and code those positions “16” armed with pistol and rifle or carbine.
RFI also fields the SOPMOD stock to units, intended for the SDM's, but they go were ever the unit sees fit. There was also a funky bipod with "tooth" feet issued for awhile. The PEQ-15 is replacing many of the PEQ-2s and PAQ-4s. EoTechs were issued for a short time through RFI because Aimpoint could not make M-68's fast enough. I would imagine they will be completely replaced by Trijicons and Comp M-4s in the next couple of years.
I wrote the appove as a freshly retired Infantry 1SG, just returned from OEF, based on what I believed to be common sense, within a set of rules that applied in that situation, and the feed back from the other two divisons reps. If I had to do it again I would most likely have redone the command and staff and disposed of some of those M-9s, perhaps giving the to the M-249 gunners. I also screwed up how the M-203's were documented because of the transition of the M-203 MWO for the M-4 rails into the M-203A1 and A2 models.
So with all that in mind, KAC, Aimpoint, Insight, MaTech, Gripod, and who ever else benifited from this, can I have a cookie?:p
Hopefuly that answered your question (without blowing my horn to hard) and since the contracts have all been let out............. and some of the specifics have changed since then, but you get the picture.
Never really seen anyone with an eotech in pictures. Anyone got any? This is a member's gun (on another gun forum) he's using the sandbox right now he just posted today.
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii134/Bullseye415/IMGP0343.jpg
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii134/Bullseye415/IMGP0344.jpg
Combat_Diver
07-17-09, 12:50
I just changed theathers this week. Went from Iraq who had allot of EOTechs on M4s to Afghanistan where the majority of optics seen so far have been M68s (M2/M4) and ACOGs. Most in both theathers seen in the last month have the GripPod VFG. Few run around with only a BUIS to the oppossite end with one M4 that had something bolted to every rail. Seen very few M16A4s but 1 out of 3 rifles is a M16A2 still. Some have the rails and others just a gooseneck with a M68. Seen some French troops with their FAMAS and half of them have a civilian scope attached to the carrying handle also.
CD
The issue red dot sight is the Comp M4. Everything else is as stated. There may be some leeway for equipment if you have enough pull with the CO and a big budget.
There is a standard piece of equipment used for all of these. A quick rundown of the main stuff follows:
The Knights Armament RAS is the standard handguard used on the M4 and M16A2/A3/A4.
The standard BUIS is the Matech.
The standard foregrip is the Knights Armament vertical grip.
The standard optics are the Aimpoint M2 (M68), TA31F ACOG, and TA31RCO ACOG.
In special operations command, there are some different pieces of gear that are standard on the M4A1.
The Knights Armament RIS is used.
The standard optics are the TA01NSN ACOG, the TA01ECOS ACOG.
The Knights 300m BUIS is the standard rear sight instead of the Matech.
You will find other pieces of gear being used. These would come from commercial sources and are not a standardized item.
Our guys still have a ton of Comp M2's because the BCT's were equipped with them a LONG time ago. The Comp M4s were issued in smaller numbers when they came out because of that. There are still some Comp Ms around, because I can't get any one to dispose of them.
They don't needed them as they have foot lockers full of unused optics(and lights), but that's a differant story. Unlike the Comp M, the CompM2s are just fine.
Based on when your units was equipped and what variation of the menus you are on you may end up with slightly differant mixs of gear, then like units.
Bread is People
07-18-09, 00:31
Kind of a related question, but do any of the guys get to keep this stuff after they return home? I can see if it was something that they themselves bought and installed, but most likely not issued accessories. Am I correct?
Ive photos of SEALs using CASVs. Curious if other units, SF I guess... Use any other type of rail system? DD Omegas perhaps?
Kind of a related question, but do any of the guys get to keep this stuff after they return home? I can see if it was something that they themselves bought and installed, but most likely not issued accessories. Am I correct?
Correct. Issued high dollar stuff like optics go on the unit property book. Rails, etc. don't, but I think in most cases, it would be very noticeable if a rail decides to "walk". We keep anything we buy.
[QUOTE=Originally Posted by Bread is People
Kind of a related question, but do any of the guys get to keep this stuff after they return home? I can see if it was something that they themselves bought and installed, but most likely not issued accessories. Am I correct??[/QUOTE]
I don't want to advocate fraud, waste, and abuse but there are ways to keep some of the items that you deploy with. I pretty sure that there have been combat loses that aren't loses. You can also order some of the items while in theater. They tend not to make it to the property book. Hell there have been instances where soldiers have opened connexes full of gear that a unit two or more rotations before them ordered. When I was deployed we requested and received maintenance help of the Brigade Combat team that was in our AO. They were repairing IA HUMMVs for us so we could keep Iraqi patrols on the street (thereby decreasing the amount of coalition{sic. American} patrols). The caveat for this assistance was that they would use our purchasing code (APC) to order parts. I was on a Military Transition Team and we had the second highest priority for support in Iraq (only SpecOps had a higher priority). This meant that what ever we ordered tended to arrive a whole hell of alot faster than the regular units supplies. Well our motor sergeant was doing some reconciliation and he noticed that the BCT units were ordering tank engines (at over$1,000,000 a pop) and all sorts of parts other than HUMMV parts. We also had problems at the Life SUpport Area (LSA). Other units were using our APC there also. When they were hijacking our APC they were stealing our supplies before we could pick them up. One time we ordered 12 Benchmade knives (one for each team member). We received one knife and yes the packing slip clearly read 12. Short answer to your question is yes units and soldiers in units deployed to the CZ can and sometimes do keep all of that high dollar gear and it isn't on anyone's books. I'm not saying that this is right but it does happen.
Combat_Diver
07-25-09, 08:17
Update..
Seems that several units are issuing the 3x Magnifier with the M68. Seen on both M16s and M4s lately.
CD
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