I am looking for an good allround bolt action rifle

[iceman0085]

Hello everybody I am planning to buy soon an bolt action rilfe in 308 win or 30-06 sprg and I need some tipps. I will use the gun primerly for target shooting and later for hunting. I will use my rilfe only for hunting.

These rifles would be available here in austria

howa m 1500
remington model 700
savage f 10fp
and some styr mannlicher rilfes

Which of these bolt rifles woud be the you recomend or would you recomend something else.

I have also considered buying an old springfield 1903 surplus rifle, but I am bit worried if such an old rifle can handle the modern hunting loads...

Thx for the help in advance

Greetings from austira

[Uni-Vibe]

Wilkommen mein Herr Eismann!

Are Austrians allowed to have rifles? They have strict gun control, nein?

[iceman0085]

At the moment our gunline ist quite liberal, and it possible to own bult action rifles, and single or double barreled shotguns without a special permition, if you have no crinimal records. Only for handguns and semit auto rifles you need a special document with is called wbk (Waffenbsitzkarte).

[Thomas M-4]

Are you just going to use it for target shooting and hunting ?
If so you might want to look at a TIKKA T3 1-moa out of the box and the prices are pretty reasonable.

[iceman0085]

Thomas M-4 Yes I will use it primerly as an target shooting and hunting weapon. Mayby it could be also usefull as an sd weapon but this more theoretical. Using an 308 or 30-06 as an sd catrige would be overkill. I know that that two catridges would do the job pretty good even with ball ammo, and some certain hunting loads would reduce the risk of overpenetration but I still think that is not a good idea. Some Day I will get an good coach gun for that purpose and in the meantime my glock should serve me well.

And thanks for your tipp. I will check out the tikka rifles.

[VTLO910]

I'm not much a Bolt Acton man, but of all my associates in the Rifle world, the Remington 700 always seemed to fit the bill for most applications... :D

[Uni-Vibe]

At the moment our gunline ist quite liberal, and it possible to own bult action rifles, and single or double barreled shotguns without a special permition, if you have no crinimal records. Only for handguns and semit auto rifles you need a special document with is called wbk (Waffenbsitzkarte).

I can assure you that in the great state of Texas, you can have all the semi-automatic assault rifles you want (AR-15, AKM, G3, etc etc.) and all the high capacity magazines you want, also. Handguns, too. No permit required. And you can carry them around loaded almost anywhere. No permit for rifles and shotguns; you must have a license to carry a handgun, but everybody that qualifies can get one--no discretion on the part of law enforcement. Texas is a good place if you like Waffen.

[iceman0085]

I can assure you that in the great state of Texas, you can have all the semi-automatic assault rifles you want (AR-15, AKM, G3, etc etc.) and all the high capacity magazines you want, also. Handguns, too. No permit required. And you can carry them around loaded almost anywhere. No permit for rifles and shotguns; you must have a license to carry a handgun, but everybody that qualifies can get one--no discretion on the part of law enforcement. Texas is a good place if you like Waffen.


That's sounds very intersting. Here in austria it is nearly impossible to get some semi auto assault rifles, only hunting type semi autos are availalble and they are very expensive.

I have done some investigations and it would be possible to get the tikka rifles, but I have only seen on model in 7mm Remington mag, not in 30-06 springfield or 308 winchester. I know that the 7mm would seve my well as deer hunting round with an proper bullet, but for target shooting ( I am not an reloader) the 7mm mag is a way too expensive.

[Thomas M-4]

I know tikka offers a ride range of calibers in the US . Have you thought about one chambered in 6.5 x 55 swed that a pretty popular target and hunting cartridge and I would think it would be easier to find were you live. The 6.5x55 in the US is gaining popularity in F-class target rifles. It should be very popular in Europe.

[iceman0085]

No i must admit I haven't cosidered the 6,5 mm swedisch mauser yet, but buying an rifle in that caliber would be a good idea. This ammo is quit economical and it would also be no problem to find good hunting loads.

[Jim from Houston]

How about the CZ 550...don't know what kind of price they go for in Austria, but here in the US, they're priced competitively, and I've gotten solid performance out of mine...I'm quite fond of the Mauser style action, and the CZ 550 is a good quality Mauser clone at a good price.

The 6.5mm Swedish recommendation is a very good one...I have found it to be a perfect hunting caliber for white tail deer...a wonderfully accurate caliber with excellent balance of performance, recoil and high accuracy.

That's the caliber of my CZ 550. I'd heartily recommend the combination.

[SkiDevil]

Of the several models you listed I have owned and shot extensively both the Remington 700 and the Howa 1500. Both are excellent rifles.

At this point I still own a Howa in .308 and it is an accurate and reliable rifle. I could highly recommend the Howa. It is also sold by Weatherby as the Vanguard and has been sold in the past under the Smith&Wesson brand, Mossberg, and a couple of others the names of which escape me. The rifles are manufactured in Japan and the quality is quite high. The only down-side is that after market parts are not as readily availble (Drop-in triggers, etc.) as some others.

If you are going to do some formal target shooting/ compete in long-range precision matches. Then the Remington 700 is definitely the way to go.

If you simply want a general purpose hunting rifle for deer, etc. and punching paper the Howa is tough to beat. When I bought mine, it ran about $700 for the stainless steel action and barrel with a camoflage synthetic stock. I put a variable scope on the gun and it shoots great.

I haven't owned a Savage but I have shot several. They are good shooting rifles and have some of the best factory barrels right-out-of the box. A lot of people like the new Accu-triggers also.

All of your choices are quality guns. But one factor I would be considering is the availability of replacement parts/ and aftermarket accessories. Are the parts/ accessories easily obtainable for you? If not, then a domestically produced rifle such as the Steyr may be a better alternative.

Good Hunting,:D
SkiDevil

P.S. If you primarily intend to hunt with the rifle the 30.06 Springfield will offer a greater assortment of factory loads to hunt just about any game animal.

[Detmongo]

i would go with the rem.700. i have in the adl modle in 06 and this thing is a shooter. not to heavy so you can tote it around the woods. it is a very accurate rifle.

[NinjaMedic]

I will argue that a TIKKA is with out a doubt the best basic hunting rifle available on the market today especially for the investment.

[iceman0085]

Thx for the further information. I have done some furhter investigations and the cz 550 would also be available at a goodl price

@SkiDevil I have done some detailed investgations and it would be no problem to get spare parts of the rifles I have listed. And buying an styr would be a good idea, but unfurtunatelly they are tow expensive for my budget. And yes the 30-06 springfield would be an great hunting catridge. I will use my rifle at first for target shooting, and then later for hunting. I will only hunt deer, and for deer the 6,5mm swedisch mauser or the 308 winchester would be suffficent. i am the opineon that the 308 winchester is the best allround catridges, because there are some cheap fmj rounds for target shooting on the market, und some good hunting loads. At least here in austriaI haven't seen an good l target shooting oad in 30-06 springfield, only premium hunting bullets.

[CryingWolf]

I hear good things about CZ. I am a Remington fan so if the CZ doesn't totally wow you my vote would be for the Remington 700.

[Thomas M-4]

CZ makes good rifles ,Rem makes good rifles [alot of target shooter will tell you the action needs to be blue printed and trued and barrel replaced rem QC has slipped] Also the aftermarket makes everything for the rem 700 yes.
The best bang for the buck and out of the box is going to be the Tikka T3 with a good scope 1MOA factory guaranty with good ammo. Factory standard features Adj trigger, Hammer Forged barrel, Detachable 5 shot magazine for the 6.5x55 the varmint model also has heavy barrel and adj cheek peice. Tikka is made by sako of finland. From Tikka web site: How accurate is the heavy barrelled Tikka?
A very difficult question, because so many factors have influence to the accuracy. These include: ammunition, scope mounts, scope and the shooter. In 1999 fall British long range bench rest championship was won with a Tikka Continental, cal. 6,5x55. The range was 1000 yards, 10 shots, diameter of all impacts: 4,4".

To tell you the truth I don't really like the looks of the Tikka T3 but if you are looking for the most bang for your buck out of the box the Tikka T3 is going to be it.
Tikka web site http://www.tikka.fi/

In the US we cant get the supervarmint in 6.5x55 :mad::confused::mad: But you can:cool:

[iceman0085]

Thx again for the great answers.

Thomas M-4 Thx for the infos. I will check out if i can get or import the super varmint in 6,5 mm swedish mauser.
But what about the ammo avaibilty in 6,5 mm swedish mauser. I would be no problem to get cheap fmj rounds at my local gunstore, but I wasn't able to locate some decent hunting ammo. Which ammo company makes good 6,5mm swedish mauser round

ps: What do you think about the remington 770. I would be able to get the 770 in 30-06 springfield at a good price, 691 euro, from my fovourite austrian importer.

http://www.rohofwaffen.at/shop/pd770455273.htm?categoryId=61

[KYPD]

My two cents. I own lots of bolt action rifle and shot competitively for many years.

Remington is easy to buy. It's also easy to make accurate by virtue of it's design. But they don't always come that way. While there are often exceptions (I own a PSS that really shoots well with only minor modifications), barrels often suck, and bolt faces are seldom true, so don't expect 1/16" bughole groups unless you have a benchrest gunsmith work on it.

Savage is an excellent gun for the money, and often amazingly accurate. Not a flashy gun, but a best buy, IMO.

Howa is an excellent gun. Modified Mauser action. Absolutely reliable. Perhaps not as accurate as a Savage, but often better than a box stock Remington.

Tikka makes a great gun. Excellent accuracy out of the box with the right loads. The Fins are very serious about lead.

Sako (Tikka's older brother) is the best factory gun made anywhere in the world for the money, bar none. Superior tolerances that even a benchrest gunsmith can't improve (believe me, I've tried three times). Excellent barrels. Superior accuracy. Modified Mauser action, and an extractor that serious shooters pay $200 to replicate in their Remingtons.

[Jim from Houston]

But what about the ammo avaibilty in 6,5 mm swedish mauser. I would be no problem to get cheap fmj rounds at my local gunstore, but I wasn't able to locate some decent hunting ammo. Which ammo company makes good 6,5mm swedish mauser round

There are plenty of premium quality hunting load for the 6.5 Swedish...most of them are made by European ammo companies, so I would think you could get them in Austria without much of a problem.

Here are some of my favorites:

Lapua "Mega" 155gr (10,1g) Soft Point
Lapua "Naturalis" 140gr (9.1) Lead Free Expanding

Norma "Oryx" 156gr (10,1g) Protected Point

***Norma has an extensive line of ammo in this caliber as, obviously, they're Swedish...the Oryx is my personal favorite***

And, if you really want some expensive, top of the line ammo,

RWS 140gr (9,1g) "Doppelkern" - this stuff is great...the bummer is that it costs $2 per round in the US (might be cheaper in an EU country)...but it's amazingly high quality ammo.

[kaiservontexas]

No Mausers? I did not see Mauser in the list. What of Swiss K31 rifles in Östtereich? I am just curious as I figured Europe would be awash in surplus bolt-action rifles.

Remington 700 series and variants would be a nice rifle to own. I will admit I do not personally own a Remington 700. I have fired one though, but one would be hardpressed in America to not have. I like the .30-06sprg myself. I shot a pre-64 Winchester model 70, which if my understanding is correct Howa and FN both base their bolt-actions off of (I am partial.)

[cfrazier]

Privi Parrisan (PPU) is making ammo in 6.5x55.

[iceman0085]

Thx again for your answers.;)

@ Jim From Houston Thx for your tipp, i will check the prices of the lapua and norma loads. These Loads are quite pupular among the austrian hunters. And yes the rws ammo is great, but they are also quite expensive here in austria. I haven't used centerfire rounds, but I their rimfire rounds are great. I have fired lots of them in my 22lr henry rifle.

@kaiservontexas I haven't listed the mauser rifles because the new mauser rifles like the m03 or m98 magnum are too expensive for muy budget. It would no problem to get some surplus k98 carbines . The K31 would also be avialalbe here in austria at a good price. But I have to check first If i can get some decent hunting loads in 7,5x55.

[kaiservontexas]

@kaiservontexas I haven't listed the mauser rifles because the new mauser rifles like the m03 or m98 magnum are too expensive for muy budget. It would no problem to get some surplus k98 carbines . The K31 would also be avialalbe here in austria at a good price. But I have to check first If i can get some decent hunting loads in 7,5x55.

I do not know if they have hunting loads for the 7.5x55mm, but thanks for answering the question.

[iceman0085]

You are welcome. And I have done some online ivestigations and as i thought there are not many options for hunting loads in 7,5x55 swish. Privi Partizan for example sells only two loads. And only one load is sutitable for hunting. They only offer an ordinary soft point bullet.

http://www.prvipartizan.com/search_a.php

[Jim from Houston]

In terms of hunting loads for 7.5x55 Swiss, I know for certain that Norma has a 180gr (11,7g) version of their "Oryx" protected point available in this caliber.

Prvi Partizan also makes a soft point hunting load in 7.5 Swiss.

But that's about it...nowhere near the sort of ammo selection available for the other calibers we've been discussing.

[iceman0085]

@Jim from Houton I see. Too bad the k31 would be an intersting rifle, but due to the rahter bad ammo suply I won't buy it. I will stick to an rilfe in 308 win or 6,5 swedish mauser. I will have the chance to test an howa m 1500 in 308 win and an tika in 6,5 swedisch mauser next week, and then I will decide with rifle i will buy.

the sako trag 22 or 42 would also be a rahter intersting rilfe. But at the moment only the trg 42 in 338 lapupa magnum is availalable. And I am not intersted in an rifle in that caliber, because the 338 lm is way too powerfull and expensive for my purposes.

[Jim from Houston]

at the moment only the trg 42 in 338 lapupa magnum is availalable. And I am not intersted in an rifle in that caliber, because the 338 lm is way too powerfull and expensive for my purposes.

Yes, I don't know how much .338 Lapua ammunition costs in Europe, but in the US, it runs about $5 (3.5 Euros) per round...I know several people who own .338 Lap rifles, but none of them can afford to shoot them nearly as much as they would like.

[iceman0085]

The price is not the only problem, it is also very diffucult th get 338 LM rounds here in austria. That's the main problem. But for lang range shooting the 300 winchester mag would also be a good choice, and it would be problem to get factory ammo in this caliber, but they aren't cheap either.

[iceman0085]

What do you think about the remington pump action rifles? I could get one a very good price? Such rilfe would be an good plinking and even an sd weapon.

[DTHN2LGS]

The accuracy of a Remington pump action rifle will not be as good as a bolt action rifle in general. I would recommend you stick with your plan to get a bolt action rifle.

[iceman0085]

The accuracy of a Remington pump action rifle will not be as good as a bolt action rifle in general. I would recommend you stick with your plan to get a bolt action rifle.

I see. thx for xour tipp, I will do that.

[SSGN_Doc]

Here in the States you can get a lot for your money out of a Savage rifle.

That being said my favorite bolt action that I own is a Sako in .30-06. The action is super smooth the trigger is outstanding and the barrel is about as accurate as anyone can ask for in a sporting rifle. I bought mine at a gunshow from someone who didn't know anything about Sako's.

I got it for $350 because he had never heard of them but had taken it in as a partial trade for something he sold to someone else, and he was nervous that he picked up some "no-name" rifle that he'd be stuck with.

One of the better deals I've walked into.

My Savage continues to harvest deer for my nephew now, and he has no complaints with it since he got an even better deal on that rifle from me. It is a functional reliable rifle that is almost equal in accuracy to the Sako, but in a less refined package, with a longer bolt lift and a heavier trigger (Pre-accu-trigger).

[RyanB]

No Mausers? I did not see Mauser in the list. What of Swiss K31 rifles in Östtereich? I am just curious as I figured Europe would be awash in surplus bolt-action rifles.

Remington 700 series and variants would be a nice rifle to own. I will admit I do not personally own a Remington 700. I have fired one though, but one would be hardpressed in America to not have. I like the .30-06sprg myself. I shot a pre-64 Winchester model 70, which if my understanding is correct Howa and FN both base their bolt-actions off of (I am partial.)

Howa's are the same as a Weatherby vanguard. Unrelated to the Winchester Model 70 classic that FN uses.

[iceman0085]

Thx again for the answers.

SSGN_Doc Yes, i have only good things about the savage rifles, and they are very resonably priced here in austria.

I have done some furhter invesgigations and buying an old suplus rifle would also be a bad idea. I have seen on mosin nagant 1891/30 at very good price. this gun could also be suitable for hunting. It would no problem to get 7,62x54 russian soft point rounds. Buying an mosin nagant or on mauser k98k would be the cheapest option..