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wild_wild_wes
07-12-09, 16:42
I'm 5'8" and currently 242 lbs, and I'm 44 years old.

I've lost a lot of weight over the past few years: over 100 lbs.; still, I have a lot to go. I work out six days a week, but can't loose any more weight, evidently.

To break the plateau, for the past six weeks I've been bicycling to work: that's 18 miles each way, which takes about 90 minutes each way.

After I get home I lift weights for about 45 minutes. I'm eating at 2700 calories a day: 18% carb, 49% protein, 33% fat.

I just weighed myself (I only do that once a month). After all that, I lost 3 pounds last month.

I've been trying to nail down how may calories I should be eating, using online calculators, but I get wildly varying answers.

I got my RMR medically tested, and it came out to 2376.

I use a heart rate monitor during my workout; my bike commute costs an average of 2200 calories per day, and weights about 600. Plus 500 more for normal activity through the rest of the day.

That all adds up to 5700 calories expended, per day; at an intake level of 2700 that would give a daily caloric deficit of 3000.

According to the laws of Physics, I should have lost a lot more weight than a mere 3 pounds....but I didn't.

3 pounds. That just doesn't seem possible. Look at the freaking caloric deficits I'm running! What coud I be doing wrong?

bkb0000
07-12-09, 16:59
you're not losing weight, but how do you look/feel?

i'm not fitness expert, but i know if you're strenuously working out and building muscle mass, which weighs more than fat, your body will metabolize that fat straight into muscle and you won't lose a whole lot of weight.

I don't know what RMR is... is that related to BMI? do you know what your BMI was and is currently?

sounds like you've been at it long enough that you should have already passed that phase... so i dunno. hopefully someone with some fitness expertise will happen by.

but- congratulations on having the discipline to improve yourself, and it sounds like you most certainly are, even if the scale isn't cooperating.

d90king
07-12-09, 17:02
On the surface it sure sounds as if you are doing your part. Just keep it up and you will continue to lose weight. When you are doing your biking are you getting your heart rate elevated? Casual cruises on a bike don't do as much as you might think.

Try spreading your caloric intake into small meals 5 times a day...

Swimming is also an excellent form of of exercise.

The key is to keep having a positive attitude, the rest will come.

Maybe try Yoga and spinning classes. Don't laugh Yoga will bust your ass.;)

wild_wild_wes
07-12-09, 18:15
RMR = Resting Metabolioc Rate; how many calories your body burns per day, without additional physical activity.

I've been doing the "six small meals a day" plan, for several years now.

guns4fun
07-12-09, 18:21
First, i'm no expert - hell, it's been 2 years since i worked out.

2 things come to mind.

1. like already posted, maybe you are turning fat into muscle.

2. I'd actually suggest that you eat more calories.

If you are burning 5700 calories a day and only taking in 2700, your body might think it is starving and store fat.

Also, you are 44 - i'm 42. I don't know about you but my metabolism isn't what it was when i was in my 20-30's. It is a lot harder to figure out what routine works for your body as you get older. So, experiment a bit on workout routine and calorie intake until you find what works.

Also, i'd get one of those scales that also does body fat. They might not be perfect but it gives you a starting point for you. Also, i'd weigh yourself once a week - at the same time of day every time. Your body will weigh more / less at different times during the day so you want to stay consistant.

Good luck and don't give up.

Iraq Ninja
07-13-09, 00:19
First, i'm no expert - hell, it's been 2 years since i worked out.

2 things come to mind.

1. like already posted, maybe you are turning fat into muscle.

2. I'd actually suggest that you eat more calories.

If you are burning 5700 calories a day and only taking in 2700, your body might think it is starving and store fat.



So where is the body getting these missing 3000 calories from? That is a good trick, considering he is only taking in 2700... :)

I think the OP's caloric intake calculations are wrong. Somehow, he is getting more calories than he thinks.

As for fat being converted directly into muscle (turning fat into muscle), I thought that was physically impossible and thus a myth.

Zhurdan
07-13-09, 00:30
I think you are right IraqNinja. Your body will not simply convert one to the other, but what it will do when you are taking less in that you need, is store some of it as fat. If you do not match caloric intake to caloric out, your body will go into "starvation mode" and start taking part of what you intake and make it fat. Why? Because you body isn't a calculator, it plans ahead. If you aren't taking in what you are putting out, it will store some away for later. Take in what you put out, and your body won't feel "starved". It'll burn what comes in when you burn it.

I've been dealing with this for quite some time. I have a complication with my thyroid that throws off my whole body. You may want to have that checked. It controls a lot of your metabolism. It may have something to do with it. I never had a problem with weight, until I hit 30. Then all of the sudden, with similar intake and activity, I started to pack on the pounds. Just some ummmm... food for thought.

guns4fun
07-13-09, 00:31
So where is the body getting these missing 3000 calories from? That is a good trick, considering he is only taking in 2700... :)

Depending on how his body is working - either by burning muscle or fat reserves.




I think the OP's caloric intake calculations are wrong. Somehow, he is getting more calories than he thinks.

Maybe




As for fat being converted directly into muscle (turning fat into muscle), I thought that was physically impossible and thus a myth.

Correct, you are not actually turning fat into muscle. You would be burning fat away and increasing muscle mass from working out. IE he is replacing 4lbs of fat with 4lbs of muscle mass.

guns4fun
07-13-09, 00:45
I think you are right IraqNinja. Your body will not simply convert one to the other, but what it will do when you are taking less in that you need, is store some of it as fat. If you do not match caloric intake to caloric out, your body will go into "starvation mode" and start taking part of what you intake and make it fat. Why? Because you body isn't a calculator, it plans ahead. If you aren't taking in what you are putting out, it will store some away for later. Take in what you put out, and your body won't feel "starved". It'll burn what comes in when you burn it.

I've been dealing with this for quite some time. I have a complication with my thyroid that throws off my whole body. You may want to have that checked. It controls a lot of your metabolism. It may have something to do with it. I never had a problem with weight, until I hit 30. Then all of the sudden, with similar intake and activity, I started to pack on the pounds. Just some ummmm... food for thought.

That's a great suggestion on the thyroid.


Yeah, getting older sucks.

When in my 20's i weighed 160-170. I worked out all the time and couldn't bulk up to save my life. Of course my body fat was 8%.

Then i hit my 30's and did the martial arts 4 days a week - without lifting heavy weights. If i wasn't careful, i'd be at 175-185.

Now i'm in my 40's 190 - 200lbs and don't work out at all. So, all i need to do now is look at a pizza and it puts on 5lbs :D.

bkb0000
07-13-09, 01:58
As for fat being converted directly into muscle (turning fat into muscle), I thought that was physically impossible and thus a myth.

i said the fat's metabolized into muscle- i didn't say fat is converted directly into muscle. fat is stored energy. when the body needs energy, it burns fat to get it- if you're working out, that energy goes to creating muscle.

conversion.

no myths involved.

RESQDOC
07-13-09, 08:27
Have a testosterone level & PSA checked when you get your thyroid checked. Make sure your doc gets a Free T4 and not just a TSH.

The most common cause of inability to lose weight is, as noted above, BUFU'ing your Intake/Expended calculations. The second most common, as above, is eating too little. Get help from a dietician.

cabbynate
07-13-09, 10:20
Have a testosterone level & PSA checked when you get your thyroid checked. Make sure your doc gets a Free T4 and not just a TSH.

This is the key that will unlock doors. Go see a good endocrinologist. At you age you hormones are what is getting the best of you. Without going into a long drawn out post go to an endocrinologist and get the blood work done and have him straighten you out. Anti-Aging Doc's are good to if you can afford them. They usually aren't covered by your insurance....

Mr.Goodtimes
07-13-09, 19:32
if your caloric intake is too low, you will store more of what you do eat as fat. also, eating too little can cause your body to break down muscle tissue.

wild_wild_wes
07-13-09, 19:38
I had a check-up last year and all levels were within norms.

Intake: I write down the caloric values and macronutrient levels of everything I eat. So, I know what I'm taking in.

Expenditure: all my cardio workouts I use a heart rate monitor, which measures calories burned. So, I know what I'm expending.

The only thing I can think of is my deficit is too high....but I'd almost have to double my intake to get within the recommended maximum daily 1000 calorie deficit. I don't think I could even eat that much....

Mr.Goodtimes
07-13-09, 20:23
I don't count calories, my heart rate monitor is my neck and two fingers.

I eat basic, clean foods, and when it comes to workin out, i put out.

I work out five days a week. Run, bike, swim, lift. My diet consists mostly of rice, chicken, steak, eggs, potatoes, canadian bacon, vegies, cheese and water, fruits and some bread (bread, beagles, english muffins etc.)

I eat probably 5k calories a day or more, actually, i probably consume 5k calories between breakfast and lunch.

There are good calories and bad calories. 1k good calories is better then 500 bad ones.

Eat right, and eat enough. if your feeling hungry, weak, tired, light headed, then your not drinking enough. When you work out, dont get all scientific. sometimes we need to get back to basics. Just put out, youll know if your gettin a good work out or not.

My best workouts usually with my guts in the grass and my chest feeling like its about to explode. I dont remember the last time i checked my heart rate to make sure it was at x bpm for y ammount of time. I dont even time my miles when i run, most of the time, i dont even know how far ive ran. I just get out go, and go hard. it sort of depends on how i feel that day, sometimes i wanna lift heavy, others lift for reps, some days i like to run short and hard, other days i like to run farther but at a little slower pace.

Keep your workouts mixed up and fresh, and try not to get to caught up in all the work out technical fads, gym coolness and what not.

Congrats on loosing all the weight youve lost thus far, 100lbs is a huge accomplishment!

guns4fun
07-13-09, 22:21
I had a check-up last year and all levels were within norms.

Intake: I write down the caloric values and macronutrient levels of everything I eat. So, I know what I'm taking in.

Expenditure: all my cardio workouts I use a heart rate monitor, which measures calories burned. So, I know what I'm expending.

The only thing I can think of is my deficit is too high....but I'd almost have to double my intake to get within the recommended maximum daily 1000 calorie deficit. I don't think I could even eat that much....

Okay, if you really don't think you can increase your calorie intake by eating more food, try this.

Get a tub of protein powder - a tub of raw oats (oatmeal), some frozen strawberries and plain yogurt.

Take 2 scoops of protein powder (I used strawberry flavor), 1/2 to 1 cup of raw oats, 1 cup of plain yogurt, one half bag (depending on bag size) of frozen strawberries, ice and a cup of water or oj.

Put it in a blender and drink the whole blender full. That should add about 800 - 1000 calories.

I loved drinking my smoothie blends in the morning. It’s a great boost to start the day. I used to drink one every morning because it was too hard to do the blender stuff any other time of the day and I didn’t want to drink it too late in the evening. Even if you only drink half of it in the am and the other half after dinner for desert - just make sure you drink it all so you can get the full calorie affect.

Mr.Goodtimes
07-13-09, 22:38
Okay, if you really don't think you can increase your calorie intake by eating more food, try this.

Get a tub of protein powder - a tub of raw oats (oatmeal), some frozen strawberries and plain yogurt.

Take 2 scoops of protein powder (I used strawberry flavor), 1/2 to 1 cup of raw oats, 1 cup of plain yogurt, one half bag (depending on bag size) of frozen strawberries, ice and a cup of water or oj.

Put it in a blender and drink the whole blender full. That should add about 800 - 1000 calories.

I loved drinking my smoothie blends in the morning. It’s a great boost to start the day. I used to drink one every morning because it was too hard to do the blender stuff any other time of the day and I didn’t want to drink it too late in the evening. Even if you only drink half of it in the am and the other half after dinner for desert - just make sure you drink it all so you can get the full calorie affect.

Another really excleent one is, raw oats, a frozen banana, some milk, ice, chocolate protein and some peanut butter. if you use good protein powder, it actually tastes like a milk shake.

guns4fun
07-13-09, 22:46
Another really excleent one is, raw oats, a frozen banana, some milk, ice, chocolate protein and some peanut butter. if you use good protein powder, it actually tastes like a milk shake.

That sounds very good too.

cabbynate
07-14-09, 03:22
I had a check-up last year and all levels were within norms.

Normal for a 44 year old is not what you want. You want normal for a 25 year old...;)

BillCutting
07-22-09, 20:10
Supplementation can work wonders when confronted with a sticking point. Sometimes they are all thats needed to break the plateau. It seems your diet is in check, I would suggest some type of pre-workout stimulant/thermogenic to speed up the fat burning process as well as curb appetite/carb cravings, coupled with green tea (with a high percentage of ECGC) extract and omega 3 fish oil at least 6 grams a day. You will be amazed I assure you. And green tea and fish oil have many other benefits as well.

wild_wild_wes
07-24-09, 00:48
I wonder if I have screwed up my system by running such large caloric deficits: over 2,000 calories per day for the last two months, and at least 1,500 per day for the previous couple of years. I lost very little weight over this period, despite the enormous deficits. The deficits were mostly the results of lots of Cardio. I may be addicted.

What is the best strategy to recover from this error? Should I try to get to Maintenance NOW, or do it gradually? How much should I increase per week? Or should I be looking at doing less excersize (an option I am very reluctant to take)? How long will I need to stay at Maintenance before I can reduce calories again?

guns4fun
07-24-09, 10:21
I wonder if I have screwed up my system by running such large caloric deficits: over 2,000 calories per day for the last two months, and at least 1,500 per day for the previous couple of years. I lost very little weight over this period, despite the enormous deficits. The deficits were mostly the results of lots of Cardio. I may be addicted.

What is the best strategy to recover from this error? Should I try to get to Maintenance NOW, or do it gradually? How much should I increase per week? Or should I be looking at doing less excersize (an option I am very reluctant to take)? How long will I need to stay at Maintenance before I can reduce calories again?

Like already posted by myself and others.

Yes, you could have put your body into starvation mode.

Again, suggestions:

Buy a scale that also calculates body fat.

Check your weight / body fat weekly - you want to see a 2-3 pound loss per week.

Increase your calorie intake - drink the protein shakes i gave the recipe for. Drink one per day and see how it goes.

After you start weighing yourself weekly, you'll be able to see what changes worked and try to change it up as needed.

Good luck.

Perryguy
07-25-09, 11:14
An excellent resource is, Chris Carmichael's book, "Food for Fitness". Chris is an ex-competitive bicyclist and Lance Armstrong's adviser. It is well worth reading.

wild_wild_wes
07-25-09, 12:09
Like already posted by myself and others.

Yes, you could have put your body into starvation mode.

Again, suggestions:

Buy a scale that also calculates body fat.


I have an Omron electronic body fat meter.

My BF% has been going down steadily...but slowly....

guns4fun
07-25-09, 18:53
I have an Omron electronic body fat meter.

My BF% has been going down steadily...but slowly....


Well, in that case check it weekly. Increase your calorie intake and adjust your work out routine until you start seeing the results you want.

Again, 2-3lbs or so loss per week is what is considered healthy weight loss for most people. Also, if you are not getting the weight loss you want but your body fat % is going down, your still on the right track.

Mr.Goodtimes
07-25-09, 19:48
a 1500-2000 calorie deficit a day for an extended period is too much, that will put your body into starvation mode.

also remember, the fatter you are, the easier it is to lose weight, the more you lose, the harder it will get. i would worry more about your overall look then how much weight your loosing. If your doing a weight routine, youll be losing fat and building muscle, so at some point, its going to look like (according to the scale) your losing very little fat, when in reality, your stripping it off and replacing it with muscle.

DevL
08-21-09, 15:09
After reading your post I have a few thoughts.

First your loss sounds totally normal. Second, you overestimate your caloric deficit, especially how much you burn and your RMR. Also 600 calories for 45 minute lifting workout? Come one get real... not even in an hour of intense lifting would burn 600 calories. I have hepled lots of people diet and they ALL have the same problem... they eat too much because someone told them not to starve themselves or they would go into "starvation mode" and the people who told them that either dont have single digit body fat or actually starve themselves while telling others not to or do MASSIVE amounts of cardio.

My thoughs... be happy with 3 pounds in a month or eat less. If I am losing fat I NEVER eat more than 1200 calories and sometimes go as low as 900. I run 3 miles a day and lift as hard as I can three times a week for 1-1.5 hours. I am taking ECA 3 times a day and even then I lose only 2-3 pounds of weight week. Lots of charts say I should be at a deficit of over 2000 calories a day on average. I should easily be cutting 4 pounds plus a week... yet I dont.

You think normal activity and your RMR =2876 calories a day or you would slowly starvet to death? At age 44 and 5'8" in height? Not likely. At 6'2" and 220 in my 20's I could hold my weight at that calorie level and was working out pretty hard at the same time. I could lift and run and train and do whatever and hold my weight and I dont have a slow metabolism. My daily diet varied from 2800-3150 holding at 220... and I was active.

The solution to not losing enough weight is always the same... eat less. People will find ANY way to get around that simple concept and come up with some excuse of why thats not a good idea. I bet it happens right in this very thread. ;)

Christian R.
08-23-09, 15:48
What kind of fats are you eating? Better yet, what are you eating, period? I see the breakdown of fats/proteins/carbs, but in what form?

And, how much sleep are you getting at night?

wild_wild_wes
08-29-09, 00:59
For most of my program I was on low-fat intake. To up my intake I started eating more cheese, but mostly the increase is from Flax Seed Oil in liquid form, and almonds.

Sleep- I wish I could. My sleep patterns are very disturbed. This week was bad: I was waking at around 3 am (normal wake time is 5 am). Sometimes I wake an hour or so earlier, too.....then in an out until the alarm goes off; usually at that time I am deep in a dream, so it looks like my deep sleep is being disrupted. This has been going on for quite some time. I don't wake feeling fully refreshed, but not really "tired", either. I usually say "****", then get out of bed to start my day.

Cameron
08-29-09, 17:59
Iraq Ninja is right your calculations are off, and you are not turning fat into muscle that is impossible.

Cut your calories, cut your weight training.

Cameron

Barron Fields
08-29-09, 18:21
but mostly the increase is from Flax Seed Oil in liquid form.

STOP WITH THE FLAX SEED OIL NOW!!!


If you need to suppliment fat, use olive oil and/or macadamia nuts.

Read Dr Barry Sears book Enter The Zone. You can pick it up used for about $10.


I think with a little fine tuning you'll really start to see more results. :D

Oh, add some turkey to your diet too.

wild_wild_wes
08-30-09, 02:23
Iraq Ninja is right your calculations are off, and you are not turning fat into muscle that is impossible.
Cameron

That's un-possible. I log the macros and calories for EVERYTHING I eat.


Cut your calories,

Cameron

So you are recommending a starvation diet?


cut your weight training.

Cameron

?????

wild_wild_wes
08-30-09, 02:33
you overestimate your caloric deficit, especially how much you burn and your RMR. Also 600 calories for 45 minute lifting workout? Come one get real... not even in an hour of intense lifting would burn 600 calories.

D'oh wrong numbers. Correct: 300 calories expended for 45 minutes weights session (The extra 300 cals came from a HIIT session, which I usually only do in winter.). But actually my sessions usually end up being 60 minutes or longer, since this time of year it's over 90 degrees in my garage where I lift, and I need more time to recover.


If I am losing fat I NEVER eat more than 1200 calories and sometimes go as low as 900.


How long do you typically stay in a fat-loss phase?

tmckay2
08-31-09, 22:22
Have a testosterone level & PSA checked when you get your thyroid checked. Make sure your doc gets a Free T4 and not just a TSH.

The most common cause of inability to lose weight is, as noted above, BUFU'ing your Intake/Expended calculations. The second most common, as above, is eating too little. Get help from a dietician.


this!!!! im a 3rd year pharmacy student and this, or some variation of it, is often the problem. my wife had a thyroid problem but it caused the opposite, she was hyperthyroidic so she couldn't gain good weight and her weight was too low. got on thyroid medication and its now normal, although now she kinda wishes she was back to her old weight haha

tmckay2
08-31-09, 22:29
whoops, didn't see you said your levels were normal. anyway, as previously stated, as sad as it is, 3 lbs in a month is not abnormal. usually it is healthy to lose 1-2 pounds a week. and also as stated, the more you lose the harder it gets to lose it.

ever seen biggest loser? you may think its funny but it actually has great info. those people lose pounds fast at first because they drastically cut their calories from what they used to eat and work out 100 times more than they used to. but as the show goes on they hardly lose any. also, some weeks they just, for whatever reason, don't lose any or even gain. and the people and trainers say "how can this be?" clearly more calories were burned than ingested. the reason is the body is not a simple calculator that goes calories in minus calories out equals total fat stored. its a complex thing that will adapt and change to all sorts of changes. as mentioned, your hormones may play a role, which can spike and plummet randomly, depending on stress, sleep, workout, food, etc.

by the way, how is your stress level? perhaps you need to do more shooting :)

id say keep at it, it sounds like youre taking it on in a decently healthy way and it all makes sense, sometimes your body just won't respond how you want it to

Aray
08-31-09, 22:59
Take a look at this, as previously posted, you may be too far in the direction of caloric deficit. To be clear, I have no specific expertise in this arena.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/fitness-specialist/okay-to-skip-meals.aspx?xid=nl_EverydayHealthDietandNutrition_20090816

wild_wild_wes
09-01-09, 22:35
by the way, how is your stress level? perhaps you need to do more shooting :)

No time for shooting! I recently bought a house, and on the weekends for the last 6 months (after working out), I've been slaving away on the landscaping (who needs a Bobcat when a shovel does the same thing, cheaper)....over 8 hours of heavy toil every saturday is typical, temps over 100 degrees or not. But, I'm almost done with the hard work....thank God.

My job is perhaps a stress level of 1 on a scale of 10. Landscaping and this weight problem are about my only stressers.

wild_wild_wes
09-14-09, 21:12
In the theory that I was under-eating, I upped my calories from 2700 per day to 3400; depending on my cardio for the day, this gives deficits of 500 to 1000 calories, instead of the much higher deficits I've been running previously.

I just did my monthly weigh-in and found that I lost 2 pounds at the higher intake level.

Should I keep the higher intake for much longer?

If I think my body has "re-set" and is ready again for more intense weight loss, how long should these low intake periods be? In other words, how long is typically recommended (for instance, by bodybuilders) to stay in a "cutting" mode?

perna
09-15-09, 10:54
As everyone has said before your weight loss is normal, and you seem to be doing it correctly. The faster you lose the worse off you will be, you hear the stories of people losing 20 pounds and instantly gaining 30. Anyone can not eat and lose weight, doesnt make it healthy. Figure out the most you can eat to keep your body happy, have energy to work out and still lose weight and you are doing great. Try changing the times you eat, and what you eat at those times.

You will eventually get to a point where you are happy with your weight and you will have to figure out how to maintain it.