View Full Version : Military considers smoking ban
The rational to ban it is the costs the government incurs.
What happens when the government takes over healthcare for all?
Not just smoking will be targeted, but I would guess food, firearms, any dangerous sporting activity, etc.
any dangerous sporting activity
guess "its safer than bowling" will no longer be valid :rolleyes:
Chewing tobacco was a much bigger problem on our boat, damn cans & bottles would spill over with that nasty shit goin' everywhere! I can remember that it seemed like taking a smoke break was the only 10 minutes of sanity I could get somedays...
I have seen guys finish a 12 minute, 2 mile APFT run and light up as they cross the finish line. But honestly, those types are few and far between.
I am not a fan of Big Brother, but the military ain't no free ride. We do things differently, as in not the same as those back home. Want to play, then play by the rules. Wouldn't hurt my feelings in the least to see this pass.
Additionally, I don't buy the arguments about needing a stress break. 14 years in uniform and many high stress situations in the IZ, etc. and I never once said to myself, "Man, I need a smoke." Sure, that's a different story for those already addicted.
Pure conjecture, but I don't think you'll see significant changes in PTSD, suicides, etc. due to the loss of tobacco in the military either. Actually, I would expect the converse to be true. By and large, troops would be healthier and studies have proven that the healthier and more physically fit you are, the better your chances are of surviving injuries and the ablility to heal quicker. It stands to reason that this would hold true for mental health as well. The report seems to support this as well.
I am not attacking smoking, don't have a phobia or a dislike of smokers, so don't start the flames or debates. Want to smoke, drive on.
Failure2Stop
07-15-09, 05:12
I am all for unfettered access to smoking cessation programs, but a ban on tobacco is going to cause some serious issues.
that would go over like a turd in the punchbowl
telecustom
07-15-09, 06:52
Not that I support a ban on smoking....but I am tired of picking up cigarette butts or having my Soldiers pick them up. Also when I was a PVT, the only people that got breaks were the smokers. This always really pissed me off when I was still busting my ass to get a job done and the rest of the Platoon was dicking around.
On a different but related note..
I have noticed that people that are willing to throw their butts out the window or just onto the ground are also more likely to throw general trash on the ground. Now I am not a tree huger by anymeans, butt after picking up a lot of trask, you get a little tired of it.
My .02
Iraq Ninja
07-15-09, 07:41
There is a long tradition between the Army Rangers and Copenhagen, at least there was when I was in.
It was preferred over smoking, since you could do it in the field. You were also allowed to carry it in Ranger school.
I suspect this may cause a bit of a stir, like when we lost our black berets...
Business_Casual
07-15-09, 07:41
I understand the desire to curb tobacco use, but just keep in mind the rationale used to ban it can be applied to other things you personally may not want to see banned.
When they come after your Advil or beer or your fried food, your opinion may change.
Full disclosure - I don't smoke now, but I used to smoke
M_P
I tend to agree with some of the others. We are in uncharted waters and if they can pull crap like this with "evil" cigarettes I am sure that they can find a way to get rid of soda, salt, fried foods, etc..etc.. Next thing we know our meals will be little beans like in "Demolition Man" and we'll get fined for saying shit.
OldNavyGuy
07-15-09, 08:21
i believe it will cause a recruitment problem, after all, there are patriots who smoke or chew and/or use tobacco in what ever is their choice.
So the position of the Pentagon is that tobacco is the primary source of their wasted expenditure when it comes to active/veteran health care? Really?
Are they really sure that it isn't the ongoing continued care brought on by shoddy, East Bloc-style initial care by poorly trained, untalented and unmotivated practitioners? Lack of allowing for proper healing time for those that are sick or injured, compounded by a massive, combative Tricare beauracracy that makes a policy of denying care because of overcomplicated paperwork and permissions policy?
There's a laundry list of crap to fix in the military healthcare system itself that keep tobacco from being even in the Top 5 list of causal factors for wasted money and effort. This is just the most marketable thing they can jump on, wave in people's faces and say "LOOK!! We're...Doing Something! YAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!"
Gutshot John
07-15-09, 08:29
Never gonna happen.
I tend to agree with some of the others. We are in uncharted waters and if they can pull crap like this with "evil" cigarettes I am sure that they can find a way to get rid of soda, salt, fried foods, etc..etc.. Next thing we know our meals will be little beans like in "Demolition Man" and we'll get fined for saying shit.
To borrow from that movie, "In the future, all health care is Obamacare."
What is going on in the military is a natural progression of the "you signed on, we own you" mentality. Unfortunately for the rest of the nation, that attitude is now the predominant theme of government. Being in the US means you belong to the US, and the state is stretching to see how far we will allow it to dictate our lives.
We non-smokers need to remember that smoking is a target of opportunity for them but it's absolutely not the end game. I despise smoking and rude smokers, and don't want to pay for someone else's bad habits. But I also don't want to see personal liberties infringed in the name of "the greater good."
Qualifying my statement with some background:
I don't smoke.
Never did smoke.
Iam not in the Millitary.
I have been chewing Cope since 4th grade, I am now 38.
I really would like to stop chewing......tomorow. Tomorow is always the day I am quiting. I kinda wish (yet panick at the thought) that the tobaco products would be simply banned, period. Then I could stop. Until then, I see cancer and death as my only way out. I don't know how you guys (those that have) quite smoking/chewing, but damn.... your a better man than me. I have tried a few times, once I succeded for about 3 months.... and I fell off the wagon and grabbed a can of dip and there you have it.
OldNavyGuy
07-15-09, 09:11
oooooh ! i gorgot to mention, does anyone remember the mantra of the non smokers of the 1960s era when they said: "WE JUST WANT YOU TO STOP SMOKING ON AIRPLANES"
Business_Casual
07-15-09, 09:39
Qualifying my statement with some background:
I don't smoke.
Never did smoke.
Iam not in the Millitary.
I have been chewing Cope since 4th grade, I am now 38.
I really would like to stop chewing......tomorow. Tomorow is always the day I am quiting. I kinda wish (yet panick at the thought) that the tobaco products would be simply banned, period. Then I could stop. Until then, I see cancer and death as my only way out. I don't know how you guys (those that have) quite smoking/chewing, but damn.... your a better man than me. I have tried a few times, once I succeded for about 3 months.... and I fell off the wagon and grabbed a can of dip and there you have it.
That sounds a lot like the people blaming their inability to get something done or accomplish something on the rest of society. You know, the ones that want universal health care and higher taxes?
M_P
Yea, I know it sounds weak. But dude.... it is a hard habbit to break. I don't know why I like to fill my face with cope but I look forward to my next dip and I panick if I don't have a spare can near me. Im a pussy.
NinjaMedic
07-15-09, 10:12
I have mixed feelings over this and certainly dont feel qualified to speculate on whether it is the correct decision or not, however I will say that I am surprised it has taken this long.
Yea, I know it sounds weak. But dude.... it is a hard habbit to break. I don't know why I like to fill my face with cope but I look forward to my next dip and I panick if I don't have a spare can near me. Im a pussy.
This is about the best definition of an addict that one can give. If you start looking at it that way versus it being just a habit, you can get angry enough at it (and yourself but only for a short while or it becomes self-destructive) to start breaking its hold over you.
Failure2Stop
07-15-09, 10:43
I can't get Copenhagen at my current location, so I try to bring over a multi-month supply every time I am in the states. This last time, however, I decided that it was time to quit and didn't bring any back.
Fast forward 3 months and one log-
I ran out of Cope a few weeks ago and I almost cried. I am still a bit emotional about it, which is probably the only reason I posted in this thread, let alone twice.
There is a long tradition between the Army Rangers and Copenhagen, at least there was when I was in.
It was preferred over smoking, since you could do it in the field. You were also allowed to carry it in Ranger school.
Mid-deployment guys would run out and others would have logs mailed to them, highest price I knew of was selling for $20 a can and that was almost 10 years ago.
RogerinTPA
07-15-09, 12:41
Complete BS. It's an individual's option to choose, not the government.
Don't want anyone to use tobacco? Have staged programs set up so combatants can decompress immediately following a combat situation, an intermediate/inter-theater program, then a sustainable, follow up program to deal with PTSD when they rotate back. For a quick fix, I vote for roving MWR/Party Vans, stopping at all of the FOBs...with hookers, complete with stripper polls, for stress relief.;)
This is reminiscent of when they tried to ban porn mags at the PX, including risque' mags like Maxim. :rolleyes:
kaiservontexas
07-15-09, 12:41
I tend to agree with some of the others. We are in uncharted waters and if they can pull crap like this with "evil" cigarettes I am sure that they can find a way to get rid of soda, salt, fried foods, etc..etc.. Next thing we know our meals will be little beans like in "Demolition Man" and we'll get fined for saying shit.
See you underground you be the armorer building that cool pistol Dennis Leary had in that movie, and I will serve up the rat burgers!
Business_Casual
07-15-09, 12:54
See you underground you be the armorer building that cool pistol Dennis Leary had in that movie, and I will serve up the rat burgers!
Que?
M_P
CryingWolf
07-15-09, 15:20
I don't see a problem with it, but I don't think they should try to roll this out all at once; Saying something like, well on Aug 1st you can not smoke. I think they need to roll this out in stages; maybe on new recruits first, ask them when they are signing up, then work their way up to career individuals, giving them what help they would need to stop. This would include all tobacco use of course. This is not like a smoking ban in which people are worried about second hand smoke etc. I don't see the point of banning smoking and everybody just picks up chewing, which is even more addictive.
I smoked for years but, haven't smoked in more then twenty years now. I quit cold turkey, no gum, no patches, no hypnosis etc. If you smoke or chew and you really want to quit then quit! Yes it will be hard, might be the hardest thing you ever do.
kaiservontexas
07-15-09, 15:44
Que?
M_P
The movie "Demolition Man" was referenced.
Smuckatelli
07-15-09, 16:33
I wonder if they will ban all dangerous activities because of the effect that it has on health costs.:o
It's all BS. Done with work, leave, go to bar, drink your face off, smoke your brains out and try to get laid :D
Just another power grab by the Government. They can sugar coat it anyway they want to by saying the exact same things they say about curbing our 2A. It's just a power grab and it pisses me off just thinking about it!!!!!!!!:mad:
Freedom is just that!!!!!!!!!!!! Free men to choose what they want to do!!!!!!!
The one's here that are waffling are just like the gun owners that don't have the EBR's and think it will be alright not having anyone else owning them. We as Americans need to think long and hard about what the 'Government' tries to restrict.
Another example is the old motorcycle helmet laws.............Stupid. I always wore one, but it was my choice. If someone wants not to, it's their punkin' split open, not mine. I just hate it when the idiots don't wear one and expect the Government to pickup the hospital bills.
I say smoke/chew/dip if you want!!!!!!!!!!!! You should be man enough to accept the consequences.
BTW, I smoke cigars on occasion and I use to smoke cigarettes for a few years. Quitting is ONLY going to work when YOU make the decision that YOU want to quit. I did it by not saying I was quitting. I like to use the word: stopping. It sounds the same, but quitting is permanent, while stopping leaves open the door to start again.
Starting again is YOUR choice!!!..........think about it!!!;)
They should not dare kick the troops in the nads with such foolishness. The stupid $millions of cost they are throwing around are as phony as global warming numbers. You can't trust these utter safety nazi scum.
They ban nicotine; why not give them a union with rules against working more than 10 hours a day. A lot of extended shifts are run on tobacco and coffee.
Wanna keep 'em healthy, pass the law to outlaw sending them to combat. G.D. these worthless excuses of humanity do-gooders. They'll be the ruin of us.
RetreatHell
07-15-09, 19:22
I'll tell you what... When a Marine or Soldier gets back from a long patrol, where one of his fellow brothers-in-arm's body was literally cut in half by a ****ing RPG fired from an insurgent, or he was shot in the ****ing head by a 7.62 round and his goddamned brains were spilled out on the deck, he wants a smoke. It ain't much, but trust me, it helps a little. Cigs and Cope damn near function like low-dose anti-depressants in combat, to an extent.
And I would've fallen asleep on firewatch a few times had it not been for an obnoxiously-large pinch or Coppenhagen Snuff damn near falling out of my lower lip.
Tobacco is a necessity in combat in my opinion. A bullet or an IED can kill you a lot faster than a smoke can. And besides, you can always quit later.
Like someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm all for the military offering plenty of smoking cessation products to the troops, but a complete ban on tobacco is just ****ing stupid and ridiculous!
Just my opinions here...
-Paul
You people that don't have a problem with it, remember your next.
If you are in favor of smoking bans, than why not just outlaw it?
If you think it has anything to do with health care, you are naive, it is about controlling your behavior.
Decensitize and normalize, just like vets and pro life people are terrorists, first smoking, then what, and you all keep falling for it.
Taking away freedom is taking away freedom, wether you like it or not!
I tend to agree with some of the others. We are in uncharted waters and if they can pull crap like this with "evil" cigarettes I am sure that they can find a way to get rid of soda, salt, fried foods, etc..etc.. Next thing we know our meals will be little beans like in "Demolition Man" and we'll get fined for saying shit.
I'm sure you've heard of the issue with the dems wanting to tax soda and fruit juices?
Eric Shelton
07-15-09, 22:24
Being one of those Air Force (Air Nat'l Guard) pansies with the easier PT test... I run my 1.5 mile test in just under 10 minutes. And yeah, I've been known to light up a Marlboro in short order afterward. I've quit for months, even years at a time. Point is, I like doing what I like doing. Is it right? Probably not. But I don't think an out-and-out ban is, either.
The Air Force Times ran a story a while back on a lobbying group that was trying to get any "adult magazines" taken off the shelves of BX racks. So no ogling women, no smoking, and drinking heavily frowned upon...? Sounds less like financial concerns and more like the further encroachment of political correctness. But maybe that's just me.
calebgriffin31
07-15-09, 22:27
It is up to the individual to choose, however, I know many that have only picked up smoking since joining the service. Fast forward four or twenty years and now they are hooked for the rest of their shortening life. That is their choice. One more thing... I want Fridays off to compensate for the time that I work my tail off and they are sitting in the smoke pit... Just my two cents..
Eric Shelton
07-15-09, 22:31
It is up to the individual to choose, however, I know many that have only picked up smoking since joining the service. Fast forward four or twenty years and now they are hooked for the rest of their shortening life. That is their choice. One more thing... I want Fridays off to compensate for the time that I work my tail off and they are sitting in the smoke pit... Just my two cents..
Air Force is seriously considering a policy similar to that. Two extra days a month, I believe.
calebgriffin31
07-15-09, 22:37
Air Force is seriously considering a policy similar to that. Two extra days a month, I believe.
The airforce has also been able to ban smoking for their Airmen in schools aboard Little Rock, AFB. They didn't need congress to act, just a man with a shiny shoulder. I don't know if that policy is Airforce wide or not, but I know it stands true for LRAFB.
Sweden reduced smoking and lung cancer rates by NOT being too politically correct to wink at the major shift to smokeless. But that's not possible in the puritanical anti-tobacco society here. The Swedes acknowledged smokeless was far less severe and issue.
Gates, etc would have to have rocks in their heads to try this when the POTUS smokes.
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