View Full Version : New S&W .22LR AR
Just got one of these in! For those that do not know, S&W showed this AR off at Shot Show. It is all polymer (less the barrel, rear sight and trigger group).
Fit and finish on the gun is very clean and so far has been very reliable with the following ammo:
CCI Mini Mags
Federal bulk
The gun does NOT like Remy Golden Bullet (does any gun like this ammo)?
The receiver extension is molded right into the receiver and has a plug in the back to allow for storage! It is also mil-spec so you can use any stock you want on it.
The trigger group is standard USGI as well so you can put any trigger you want in.
The rail is none removeable.
Future editions of this gun will have a threaded barrel (for those looking to mount a suppressor).
Weight of the gun (unloaded) is 4.15!
The mags are propriatory and are extremely well made. They hold 25rds, can be field stripped and feature a button on the side for easy loading. Retail price on them will be around $26 I think.
Retail price on the weapon is $499 and should be available soon!
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/22LR_AR.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/22LR_AR1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/22LR_AR2.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/22LR_AR_RE.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/22LR_AR_Bolt.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/22LR_AR_bolt1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/22LR_AR_Mag.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/22LR_AR_Mag1.jpg
Very cool.
Grant,
Does the bolt lock open on an empty mag? Will the magazines fit in an open top AR mag pouch?
Thanks.
Very cool.
Grant,
Does the bolt lock open on an empty mag? Will the magazines fit in an open top AR mag pouch?
Thanks.
Yes it does and yes it will fit in some pouches.
C4
Glad to see these hit the market, I thought they were the slickest of the dedicated .22 mini-clones that were shown at SHOT.
Glad to see these hit the market, I thought they were the slickest of the dedicated .22 mini-clones that were shown at SHOT.
Agree.
C4
Very nice. I've been frustrated by my Spikes conversion not liking to load the first round. May have to look into this once they release the threaded barrel version.
thopkins22
07-15-09, 17:14
At that price point I just may....
By the way, my Browning Buckmark eats up Remington Golden Bullets like candy. In fact I've yet to find any .22lr it wouldn't run like a pneumatic hammer with.;)
Grant after getting to handle one and shoot it is this a better way to go then getting one of the many .22 dedicated uppers or conversion kits out there???
RetreatHell
07-15-09, 17:15
Very cool indeed! And for only $499 that is an amazing deal too! Just $300 more than the CMMG kit. I wish I had known about his rifle two months ago when I bought the CMMG conversion, as I would've waited for this to come out. The light weight makes it VERY tempting to purchase one anyways.
My ONLY complaint would be no threaded barrel yet. Although one could easily have this done after purchasing it, that is completely unnecessary to me NOT to include a threaded barrel from the get-go. Not sure why they wouldn't already offer it from the beginning with that option as standard.
-Paul
Very nice. I've been frustrated by my Spikes conversion not liking to load the first round. May have to look into this once they release the threaded barrel version.
I think they might offer some uppers as well.
C4
Grant after getting to handle one and shoot it is this a better way to go then getting one of the many .22 dedicated uppers or conversion kits out there???
To be honest, at this price point, it is hard to look at a .22 upper.
We will most likely offer M4 members a discount on them (making them even cheaper).
C4
Very cool indeed! And for only $499 that is an amazing deal too! Just $300 more than the CMMG kit. I wish I had known about his rifle two months ago when I bought the CMMG conversion, as I would've waited for this to come out. The light weight makes it VERY tempting to purchase one anyways.
My ONLY complaint would be no threaded barrel yet. Although one could easily have this done after purchasing it, that is completely unnecessary to me NOT to include a threaded barrel from the get-go. Not sure why they wouldn't already offer it from the beginning with that option as standard.
-Paul
The reason for the none threaded barrel (initially) is for the widest distribution (as many states do not allow threaded barrels).
C4
please put me at the top of the list to get one,,my paperwork is gone to BATF&E for a .22 suppressor, that i've also paid for. the threaded barrel will save me a big hassle , should be a first-class little .22.---one sold!!![thanks for posting this]
Hey grant you said these would be available soon when will you start accepting orders???
Grant,
email sent. I'll buy one as soon as you can deliver.
Tex
also put me down for some extra mags,,6-10..thanks--bullseye
I think they might offer some uppers as well.
C4
Good to know. Once you confirm, would you let me know?
The reason for the none threaded barrel (initially) is for the widest distribution (as many states do not allow threaded barrels).
C4
These look very nice, any word on when the threaded barrels are set to show up?
Thanks.
Damn, I was at the shop a day too soon!!
I'm sorry and I hate to disagree but this is just more cheap BS that started with the Walther P22 and continued to the SIG Mosquito, GSG5, Sig 522, Colt M4 22lr, and now this.
I do not like the way the industry is moving toward this stuff.
Why would a person buy this rather than a real AR15 upper with a conversion bolt is beyond me.
SWATcop556
07-16-09, 02:13
I really like the looks of this. It gives me an excuse to buy yet another firearm as well as start my daughter (due in four weeks) with a great AR!
I like the idea of having a dedicated .22 rifle rather than a conversion due to not having to change pieces out all the time.
I would buy one for a fun plinker and to work on drills at a third of the cost. Even take out a few rabbits and such at the ranch.
I'm in for one with a threaded barrel since I live in a free state.
My 10/22 doesn't even like the Remy Gold Bullets and it shoots anything else. CCI for me.
Will spare mags be available for purchase?
Scott
Did you ever just buy anything because its cool and inexpensive? I have three TS dedicated 22 uppers and will buy this one as well.
I just found my soon to be twelve year old son his birthday present.
OldNavyGuy
07-16-09, 08:37
do you all know that Colt has one also ? this one is my choice.., will pick it up today,
http://www.colt22rimfire.com/uploads/images/m4ops/thumb_pers.jpg
i had this one till my son saw it and wanted it for training my two teenage Granddaughters
http://www.colt22rimfire.com/uploads/images/m4carbine/thumb_left.jpg
is the S&W comparable ? they both look pretty much the same, and with pretty much the same polymer parts and barrel shroud (?) actually i still believe my TacSol upper with steel barrel and aluminum construction is a better system/weapon.
http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/catalog/M4%20L2.jpg
Gentle Ben
07-16-09, 08:52
do you all know that Colt has one also ? this one is my choice.., will pick it up today, http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/catalog/M4%20L2.jpg
From what I understand, the "Colt" is not made by Colt, but by UMAREX. Although I haven't shot one yet, I've handled them and spoken with people who have them (and who are probably going to get rid of them and get the S&W) and I'm not impressed. The UMAREX/Colt fcg looks like an AR, but function differently (i.e 180 degree travel to the fire position), the fwd assist is non-functional, and the gun just looks and feels cheap and sloppy. I've seen Airsoft guns that felt more substantial than the UMAREX.
I haven't had a chance to check out the S&W .22 yet, but from what I've seen thus far and have been told by S&W, it looks to be a good unit, and a very close manual of arms to a regular AR. I'll probably buy one of these units to try out. I'm lazy, and I don't want to have to mess around with changing uppers or swapping out conversion parts. If it works well, at that price point I'd probably get one for my kids, nieces, nephews, etc.
John_Wayne777
07-16-09, 08:59
The "colt" gun is only Colt branded...not made by Colt...and most I've seen have been underwhelmed by the Colt offering.
The S&W is by all accounts a well made little rifle that S&W actually makes.
Grant --
I may have to get you to bundle one of these with my PT.com M&P order. :D
I may have to get you to bundle one of these with my PT.com M&P order. :D
Could it be...the birth of a "package" deal for those on the PT M&P list?! :D
CarlosDJackal
07-16-09, 09:50
Is this upper's compatible with other AR lowers (ie: my Colt SP1 with happy switch)? If so, will it support shooting in full-auto?
Scott
Did you ever just buy anything because its cool and inexpensive?
I do not like novelties. I would prefer a regular AR with a conversion that I can get real use out of and is more versatile than this.
The "colt" gun is only Colt branded...not made by Colt...and most I've seen have been underwhelmed by the Colt offering.
The S&W is by all accounts a well made little rifle that S&W actually makes.
I don't see how you can come to this conclusion as neither of these is constructed like a real AR15.
Hey grant you said these would be available soon when will you start accepting orders???
You can e-mail us if you want one.
C4
These look very nice, any word on when the threaded barrels are set to show up?
Thanks.
Don't know.
C4
I'm sorry and I hate to disagree but this is just more cheap BS that started with the Walther P22 and continued to the SIG Mosquito, GSG5, Sig 522, Colt M4 22lr, and now this.
I do not like the way the industry is moving toward this stuff.
Why would a person buy this rather than a real AR15 upper with a conversion bolt is beyond me.
Well as someone that has spent A LOT of time with ALL the different conversion uppers out there, they are all somewhat problematic/finicky. I have had to do polishing/cutting recoil springs and use one or two types of ammo to get them to run.
This get's old IMHO and is why I think this S&W is going to be a better mouse trap.
C4
do you all know that Colt has one also ? this one is my choice.., will pick it up today,
i had this one till my son saw it and wanted it for training my two teenage Granddaughters
is the S&W comparable ? they both look pretty much the same, and with pretty much the same polymer parts and barrel shroud (?) actually i still believe my TacSol upper with steel barrel and aluminum construction is a better system/weapon.
From what we have seen, these have not been very reliable.
C4
I don't see how you can come to this conclusion as neither of these is constructed like a real AR15.
The S&W is more like a real AR than the Colt (licensed product) is.
C4
Well as someone that has spent A LOT of time with ALL the different conversion uppers out there, they are all somewhat problematic/finicky. I have had to do polishing/cutting recoil springs and use one or two types of ammo to get them to run.
Doesn't the S&W use the same blowback sliding bolt on rails system that are the basis for all for all the conversions and uppers offered today?
If not, how is the S&W unit different?
Doesn't the S&W use the same blowback sliding bolt on rails system that are the basis for all for all the conversions and uppers offered today?
If not, how is the S&W unit different?
Yes and no. Yes, it is blow back (has to be), but their design is different.
C4
CryingWolf
07-16-09, 11:56
I'm sorry and I hate to disagree but this is just more cheap BS that started with the Walther P22 and continued to the SIG Mosquito, GSG5, Sig 522, Colt M4 22lr, and now this.
I do not like the way the industry is moving toward this stuff.
Why would a person buy this rather than a real AR15 upper with a conversion bolt is beyond me.
I would buy this as my dedicated upper, especially if it saves me $$$ over other dedicated uppers.
Yes and no. Yes, it is blow back (has to be), but their design is different.
I understand the blowback, it was the design I was asking about.
I put my cmmg conversion kit on the desk in front of my moniter and compared it to the pictures you posted at the start of this thread.
I can see the differences you are referring to, the major one being the recoil spring and guide rod assembly, and its attachment points on the bolt and carrier. It looks much more streamlined on the S&W.
do you all know that Colt has one also ?
No, they don't. Colt licensed Umarex to use their logo. The weapons are made by Umarex, not Colt and that is a *HUGE* difference.
I would prefer a regular AR with a conversion that I can get real use out of and is more versatile than this.
I prefer the conversion units, also, but that's just my preference.
I'm sorry and I hate to disagree but this is just more cheap BS that started with the Walther P22 and continued to the SIG Mosquito, GSG5, Sig 522, Colt M4 22lr, and now this.
I do not like the way the industry is moving toward this stuff.
Why would a person buy this rather than a real AR15 upper with a conversion bolt is beyond me.
I have to second what Grant said. I've got a Spikes and I know folks with Cieners....they are fantastic for clearance drills! I've polished the chamber and feed ramp on my spikes and still have issues. I'd much rather buy an upper that works than have to mess around with a conversion....or worse still, take care of a customer's issues with a conversion I sold them.
$500+shipping+FFL fees buys a LOT of reloading components.
I'm sorry and I hate to disagree but this is just more cheap BS that started with the Walther P22 and continued to the SIG Mosquito, GSG5, Sig 522, Colt M4 22lr, and now this.
I do not like the way the industry is moving toward this stuff.
Why would a person buy this rather than a real AR15 upper with a conversion bolt is beyond me.
Your allowed to disagree, no apologies necessary. Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else:D I also don't like trends toward cheapening(sp?) of products that is afflicting many industries, not just firearms.
To try answer your question as to why though in this particular case. If your talking about a just a conversion bolt such as the cmmg, etc.; for me its the fact that I don't want to shoot .22 out of a .223 barrel. Yeah they're close but I'm almost positive the bore diameters aren't the same. If your talking about a dedicated upper (spikes or other), then for me personally its the fact I don't want to change uppers. If I had 1 lower and say a .22, a .223 and 6.8 upper I don't look at it as "Wow look how modular this system is, awesome!". Instead I would see 2 unfinished guns and say "Damn! I need to buy a couple more lowers". By the time you do that your talking about a close to $1000 dedicated .22 in which case I can give you about $500 reasons why I'm looking hard at the S&W offering. Just my $0.02
Grant, do you know if only the S&W mags will work?
EDIT: Scratch that, just saw where you said the mags were proprietary.
Grant,
can we get some shots of the feed ramp and barrel extension/breech face?
OldNavyGuy
07-17-09, 10:31
From what we have seen, these have not been very reliable.
C4
you are correct in that statement, i tried to "dump" a full 30 rnd. mag. and all i had was one problem after another with feeding and ejection, i made the "9 turns on the bolt tension screw" but have not had a chance to test it.
is there an owners manual on the S&W .22LR any where to be reviewed ?
i would like to have more info on the S&W, when do you expect them to arrive in your inventory, being the gun nutt that i am i just may add one to my inventory.
you are correct in that statement, i tried to "dump" a full 30 rnd. mag. and all i had was one problem after another with feeding and ejection, i made the "9 turns on the bolt tension screw" but have not had a chance to test it.
is there an owners manual on the S&W .22LR any where to be reviewed ?
i would like to have more info on the S&W, when do you expect them to arrive in your inventory, being the gun nutt that i am i just may add one to my inventory.
There is an owners manual, but is not online.
No idea when I will get my orders filled.
C4
Your allowed to disagree, no apologies necessary. Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else:D I also don't like trends toward cheapening(sp?) of products that is afflicting many industries, not just firearms.
To try answer your question as to why though in this particular case. If your talking about a just a conversion bolt such as the cmmg, etc.; for me its the fact that I don't want to shoot .22 out of a .223 barrel. Yeah they're close but I'm almost positive the bore diameters aren't the same. If your talking about a dedicated upper (spikes or other), then for me personally its the fact I don't want to change uppers. If I had 1 lower and say a .22, a .223 and 6.8 upper I don't look at it as "Wow look how modular this system is, awesome!". Instead I would see 2 unfinished guns and say "Damn! I need to buy a couple more lowers". By the time you do that your talking about a close to $1000 dedicated .22 in which case I can give you about $500 reasons why I'm looking hard at the S&W offering. Just my $0.02
Grant, do you know if only the S&W mags will work?
EDIT: Scratch that, just saw where you said the mags were proprietary.
Only the S&W mags will work.
C4
I like the idea of this a lot and think of it as a low cost training aid. As soon as they make a 10rd non-fixed stock version available I'll pick one up. Even better would be an S&W upper. I see this as a much better solution than a $600 upper or a conversion kit.
CAR-AR-M16
07-17-09, 15:44
To be honest, at this price point, it is hard to look at a .22 upper.
We will most likely offer M4 members a discount on them (making them even cheaper).
C4
How do we get on your list for a threaded barrel version when they become available?
How do we get on your list for a threaded barrel version when they become available?
Send us an e-mail and we will add you to our BO list.
C4
Is the pistol grip removable?? Thanx, Jeff
Is the pistol grip removalbe?? Thanx, Jeff
Yes and you can install a different stock as well.
C4
CAR-AR-M16
07-17-09, 16:14
Grant, do you know which kind of Rail Covers will attach to the rail (KAC, TD, etc,,)?
Grant, do you know which kind of Rail Covers will attach to the rail (KAC, TD, etc,,)?
They are 1913 spec so most anyting should fit.
Since there is no heat, I would just use ladders for XTM's to keep the rail from getting overly wide.
C4
CAR-AR-M16
07-17-09, 17:14
They are 1913 spec so most anyting should fit.
Since there is no heat, I would just use ladders for XTM's to keep the rail from getting overly wide.
C4
I was wanting to get one of these rifles to use as an inexpensive training rifle, so I wanted it to be as close as possible to my other AR's which have the KAC Panels. It does not look from the pics that you posted that the rail has the notch for the KAC panels to lock into. No big deal though.
OldNavyGuy
07-18-09, 08:26
From what we have seen, these have not been very reliable.
C4
i posted this note on another AR forum concerning my experience with the new Colt M4 .22LR.
well folks.., i got this one, http://www.colt22rimfire.com/uploads/images/m4ops/thumb_left.jpg got it Friday it is still NIB.
i had this one:
http://www.colt22rimfire.com/uploads/images/m4carbine/thumb_left.jpg
for about two weeks, then my son stopped by and he wanted it for my two teenage Granddaughters to practice with before he turns them onto his "REAL" Colt M4 type rifle, he paid me just what i paid for it (by his insistence), the first mag. full of .22LR Winchester HV Power Points, i had about 11 stoppages, failure to feed (2), stove piping (3) and light firing pin strikes (6) so i just quit shooting it, come home called Umarex (yes, i read the inst. booklet.., which is about 85% "SAFETY", "WARNINGS" and "CAUTIONS", 10% info and 5% B.S.) Umarex guy told me to turn the F.H. (the manual calls it the "barrel nut") two full turns loose and "HAMMER" (you read that correctly.., "HAMMER") out the rear "field striping" pin, to you and i this is the rear take down pin, and trust me on this, you really have to "HAMMER" the damn thing out, if you try hammering the pin out with out loosening the F.H. you could damage the aluminum breech block (? for lack of a better name), when you loosen the F.H. it allows the action to move rearward about a 1/16th" releasing tension on the 6 separate holes the pin fits thru, then take the supplied long Allen wrench and turn the set screw in 9 full turns, making sure the screw is flush with the rear of the "receiver" when starting, flush is for low power ammo (usually, bulk packs), 9 turns in is for HV or HiPower cartridges.., i done all this, loaded both mags full of the above mentioned ammo and went to a safe area and shot the first mag in a plinking scenario with several rapid trigger pulls, second mag. was a "dump", just as fast as my trigger finger would wiggle the trigger, NO problems or hang ups.
my problem with this set up is that there no way to remove bolt for cleaning the action or barrel, Umarex recommends a flexible cleaning rod inserted in the muzzle and bringing the end out thru the ejection port attaching a brush or patch. i agree it is rather "chintzy" looking and in construction, but ! as long as it works that is prime.
now that i have the railed one, i will be ready for shooting it without the constant frustration of malfunctions.
they also sent me a video by Email if i knew how to post it here i would. if anyone has questions just ask.
Last week, I had a conversation with the good folks at S&W about the ability to remove the barrel (as I wanted to cut the barrel down and mount suppressor inside of the rail). They kindly advised me that there was a special tool needed to remove the barrel. Oh reeeaaally??? :D
As many of you already know, we here at G&R CANNOT leave well enough alone and managed to get the barrel off of the gun.
How S&W set this barrel up up is really interesting. They slide the barrel into the receiver from the REAR. Then they run a special barrel nut through the rail and lock it down. Pretty slick idea I think. Because of this, they can attach the ejector to the barrel which is one of the reasons (IMHO) why this .22 AR is more reliable than other products on the market.
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/22LR_AR_Barrel.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/22LR_AR_Barrel1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/22LR_AR_Receiver.jpg
Going4Broke
07-18-09, 13:22
I likey.:D
Does the safety rotate 90 deg. like the ar? How does the manual of arms differ from the ar? Looks tempting.
You can do a lot of great training with a 22. I put together a list of the drills that I do and then separated them into two sections; drills that require recoil control and drills that don't. Surprisingly, the vast majority of drills do not require recoil control which makes them perfect for a 22. I have a neat article coming out soon on training with a 22AR. I will post it once I have details of a publish date
That looks very cool.
Will they 10 rounds mags for it?
i've been thinking about this little .22,,,,,positively is gonna be the next LCP,,,everybody in the country wants 3 NOW. it appears that s&w could open a new factory just to build these as they will positively fly from the shelves. too bad colt brought such a clunker to market,, as i can find them locally in several places---but we know why they are sitting---waiting on some chump
That looks very cool.
Will they 10 rounds mags for it?
There's a "compliant" version that's also available and here's what it states on S&W's website:
Fixed Stock, Compliant For Sale in CT, MA, MD, NJ and NY.
(Compliance subject to change. Please check with your local dealer.)
SKU: 811031
Model: M&P15
Caliber: .22LR
Capacity: 10 Rounds
Action: Blow Back Semi-Auto
Overall Length: 33.75"
Stock: Fixed Position
I do not like novelties. I would prefer a regular AR with a conversion that I can get real use out of and is more versatile than this.
I fear change, too.
And I have a CMMG conversion, and I like it.
I'm still wondering, though, what would be "more versatile" about a conversion than a dedicated .22lr AR?
It occurs to me that my conversion is NOT very "versatile" because it's pretty inaccurate out past 25-50yds, whereas a dedicated .22lr might actually still be fun to shoot at 75 or 100+.
On the other hand, when I think $500 semi-auto .22, I'm thinking extremely tricked out 10/22, or something European (not a plastic wannabe AR).
That's just my 2¢,
Bimmer
On the other hand, when I think $500 semi-auto .22, I'm thinking extremely tricked out 10/22, or something European (not a plastic wannabe AR). $500 is just enough to get started with a 10/22. :p I've got a grand or more (counting the base rifle) in some of mine (http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u197/damnfineguy/22s%20-%201024/).
$500 is just enough to get started with a 10/22. :p I've got a grand or more (counting the base rifle) in some of mine (http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u197/damnfineguy/22s%20-%201024/).
That's....um....remarkable! No tacticals, either: folding stocks, lasers, lights....
Laser Stock.com (http://www.laserstock.com/) click Products, then watch the video!
That's....um....remarkable! No tacticals, either: folding stocks, lights....I got into building 10/22s because I couldn't afford to shoot buck a round match centerfire from my Tikka T3 Super Varmint as much as I'd like to. I was hitting the range two or more times a week and it was getting expensive. With a sub-MOA custom 10/22 I can practice my precision marksmanship for about $7 for box of 50rds. Then I discovered the fun in seeing just how much accuracy I could squeeze out of a 10/22 with a few dollars and a bit of work.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u197/damnfineguy/IMG_0198-1.jpghttp://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u197/damnfineguy/IMG_0199-1.jpg
10rds at 50m. The rifle can do better, the shooter need work. ;)
Before the M&P15-22 I'd never seen a need for tactical looking 22. A conversion kit yes but not a rifle. Now I'm convinced that I want the Smith. I think it would make a great low cost training aid and that's what excites me about it. I like a good looking rifle but how well it performs its function comes first.
i've been thinking about this little .22,,,,,positively is gonna be the next LCP,,,everybody in the country wants 3 NOW. it appears that s&w could open a new factory just to build these as they will positively fly from the shelves. too bad colt brought such a clunker to market,, as i can find them locally in several places---but we know why they are sitting---waiting on some chump
Just to be clear, Colt did NOT make them.
C4
Just to be clear, Colt did NOT make them.
True, but they licensed their logo to be plastered, big time, all over the box and the weapon. It becomes guilt by association.
True, but they licensed their logo to be plastered, big time, all over the box and the weapon. It becomes guilt by association.
I understand how it "appears", but Colt would not put out such a crappy product and there needs to be a distinction .
C4
I understand how it "appears", but Colt would not put out such a crappy product and there needs to be a distinction .
C4Anytime that you license your brand name to be put on someone elses product you take responsibility for any shortcoming. That's what you're selling when you license your name, the right to make money on your reputation. Just like if you lincesed your name to FuBar Industries to make and sell a G&R Tactical trigger group, and they produced an all plastic monstrosity that broke on the 3rd shot. If it has your name on it you get the credit/blame.
A well run company puts a clause in the contract that the license is only good as long as quality and customer service standards are maintained.
Anytime that you license your brand name to be put on someone elses product you take responsibility for any shortcoming. That's what you're selling when you license your name, the right to make money on your reputation. Just like if you lincesed your name to FuBar Industries to make and sell a G&R Tactical trigger group, and they produced an all plastic monstrosity that broke on the 3rd shot. If it has your name on it you get the credit/blame.
A well run company puts a clause in the contract that the license is only good as long as quality and customer service standards are maintained.
Yes, on paper, you look like you are responsible, but I will make sure that people (at least on this forum) realize that Colt had nothing to do with the gun.
I would hope that Colt does have some clause in the contract stating that if the company is screwing the pooch, that they can end the arrangement.
C4
I will make sure that people (at least on this forum) realize that Colt had nothing to do with the gun.
I would hope that Colt does have some clause in the contract stating that if the company is screwing the pooch, that they can end the arrangement.
It's absurd to say that Colt had "nothing" to do with the gun — it's not as if we're talking about illicit counterfeits. Colt sold their name (and reputation), and they knew (or should have known) what they they were putting their name on.
Even if Colt does cancel the contract, those guns are out there with the "Colt" name on them, and they're going to continue to be out there for a long time...
Bimmer
It's absurd to say that Colt had "nothing" to do with the gun — it's not as if we're talking about illicit counterfeits. Colt sold their name (and reputation), and they knew (or should have known) what they they were putting their name on.
Even if Colt does cancel the contract, those guns are out there with the "Colt" name on them, and they're going to continue to be out there for a long time...
Bimmer
Not absurd in the least. If I contacted say Magpul and said that I wanted to license their name, that is about all they would have in it. I would be responsible for the manufacturing, QC, CS and sales. Would it be Magpul's fault if the part that I licensed did not work? No it wouldn't.
Now, me personally, I would never have given my name to the company making the rifles.
C4
If the upper is polymer too, do you think it's rigid enough that there wouldn't be substantial POI changes if one mounted an optic (not just a RDS but a variable 2x7 maybe).
I realize most folks probably don't want to mount an optic but this rifle looks like it might suit a particular purpose I have in mind for a 22lr with a light/optic combo.
Thanks.
Now, me personally, I would never have given my name to the company making the rifles.
And, I suspect, for the very reason we have been discussing. Because your good name gets associated with a less than stellar product.
Whether or not it is their fault, failures will be associated with them for sure.
I finally got a chance to examine one of the Colt .22lr and I wasn't impressed or surprised. Maybe reading here provided a buffer.
For what its worth, one of the Colts the local guy received had a cracked lower just in front of the A2 stock. The steel was VERY thin. In defense, it was in a heavily damaged box that may have even been run over.
Rock-N-Ruin
07-21-09, 14:52
Since the thread topic is in ref. to the new S&W .22lr AR (lookalike) I'll leave the Colt stamped booboo alone and stick to the initial topic...
I will buy one as soon as Grant gets the rifles with threaded barrel..
That being said, since the price will be about $500.00 for the whole rifle, not just a dedicated upper that is really a no brainer..
It makes perfect sense to me.. I can use it for training (on the cheap, so to speak) and also training my daughter, she likes her 10/22 but always wants to shoot the AR's anyway.. This will be perfect for both her and I. so as a parent and a shooter, this will be a great training aid for me and a fun rifle for the kid. I thought about a .22 upper and or a .22 conversion kit, but all the finiky problems associated really have put me off from wasting the money.. I'll get on the email list for the treaded barrel rifles here in a bit.. Thanks for the detailed info and pics Grant.. It looks like a different and innovative design, especially the weight factor for those of us who have little ones.. I like it, and so will my daughter.. Rock.:D
At that price point I just may....
By the way, my Browning Buckmark eats up Remington Golden Bullets like candy. In fact I've yet to find any .22lr it wouldn't run like a pneumatic hammer with.;)
My Advantage Arms G17 kits loves these as well, recommended matter of fact.
I just got back from the range with the kids, had a .22 day. We took the entire line of the .22's and had a blast. Looking these now to add to the next trip down there.
Grant, when are the threaded barrel versions coming in?
Mark
TurretGunner
07-25-09, 19:15
2 big questions..
Does the upper function on regular AR lowers?
And does the Lower run regular AR uppers?
I hope Smith can ship these guns sooner rather than later. I emailed Dave Upton about these recently and he told me they were already backlogged by something like 50,000 (!!!) units. Holy Crap!
2 big questions..
Does the upper function on regular AR lowers?
And does the Lower run regular AR uppers?
No and No. They are specifically designed not to run with regular uppers/lowers.
OldNavyGuy
07-26-09, 08:40
what is the latest news on these S&W .22LR rifles, i bought the Colt and i am highly impressed..., in a negative manner :D
i most likey will get one, but i really would like more info on it's construction, such as how much steel, aluminum and polymer is used and where.
Grant, do you have answers to this question ? and have you a delivery date ?
thank you !
CaptainDooley
07-26-09, 13:09
Unless I'm mis-remembering it's polymer recievers and rails...
My Advantage Arms G17 kits loves these as well, recommended matter of fact.
I just got back from the range with the kids, had a .22 day. We took the entire line of the .22's and had a blast. Looking these now to add to the next trip down there.
Grant, when are the threaded barrel versions coming in?
Mark
I really do not have any dates available, but we have already cut and threaded the barrel I have and am running a can on it. All I can say is SWEEEEET!
Will get pics up soonest.
Also, tried two more types of ammo (Wolf and Remy Subsonic). The Wolf ran fantastically and the Remy Subs did not run at all.
C4
If the upper is polymer too, do you think it's rigid enough that there wouldn't be substantial POI changes if one mounted an optic (not just a RDS but a variable 2x7 maybe).
I realize most folks probably don't want to mount an optic but this rifle looks like it might suit a particular purpose I have in mind for a 22lr with a light/optic combo.
Thanks.
It is polymer and I have a LT Dr. Optic mount attached to it. No issues that I can tell.
C4
2 big questions..
Does the upper function on regular AR lowers?
And does the Lower run regular AR uppers?
No and no.
C4
Chadzillaa
07-26-09, 14:02
thats soooo sick. by buddy just bought a GSG. He should have waited for this.
bigshooter
07-26-09, 14:42
How did I miss this thread until today?:confused:
DO WANT.
TurretGunner
07-26-09, 19:29
How do we get on a order list grant?
Thanks
How do we get on a order list grant?
Thanks
Just send us an E-mail.
C4
This afternoon. I picked up the very first one to arrive at my local gun shop. I've only been able to inspect it but, I think Grant's observations are right on. It appears to be a quality built gun.
Now, I've GOT to squeeze some range time into my schedule this weekend! ;)
For those of us behind enemy lines, what is the length of pull on the fixed position stock version? How does the butt stock attach, and can it be reset to a different, but fixed length?
I realize that there is a back order on these but are people seeing them?
Im sure most shops have a wait list, but is there any new word on the street on wait times?
I stopped by my local shop today on my lunch break just to drool and see what was there and low and behold sitting in a back room waiting for a price tag to be put on it. A NIB SW m&p 15-22 for $415.00 so I didn't have any plans this weekend but now that I have a new toy to play with. I think I may just have to go out to the range and see how she handles.:D
is the little fellow threaded for flashhider??? i want one to install a suppressor on, factory threaded rifle will be just right.
is the little fellow threaded for flashhider??? i want one to install a suppressor on, factory threaded rifle will be just right.
It is not although I heard they will be coming out with one that is soon
I stopped by my local shop today on my lunch break just to drool and see what was there and low and behold sitting in a back room waiting for a price tag to be put on it. A NIB SW m&p 15-22 for $415.00 so I didn't have any plans this weekend but now that I have a new toy to play with. I think I may just have to go out to the range and see how she handles.:D
Outstanding! This is good news for those of us on Grant's waiting list. If you've taken possession of one from an LGS, I'm sure Grant is shipping now.
Please give us an AAR - pics would be nice.
They are definitely out!
I saw at least 4 dealers with them at the Tampa Gun show last week. They were all retailing for $499.
Very light and looks well made. All the controls are the same.
I had considered and priced a spikes upper but if this S&W is accurate for training then I think it is a good buy. Especially if it can be had for less.
BTW this is my first post. I purchased a 6920 back in September before the price spike mostly from the info I received on this site.
Thanks!
Angel
Grant,
Shoot me a PM with pricing.
Once funds allow, I will be getting one of these. It is going to GREAT for my kids. I checked one out at Academy Sports & Outdoors. These are VERY light compared to an AR with conversion (i.e. compared to a regular AR). This will be a fun tool for me and a great tool to get the kids familar with the AR platform.
Thanks,
ADH
I shot one this weekend and it ran 98%
The only issues it had were with the winchester 333rd packs where the hollow points were digging into the feed ramp.
Local store had them for 399.00 and they're a damn good deal for the money.
Local store had them for 399.00 and they're a damn good deal for the money.
Which store, please?
They are showing up in Georgia now. Prices seem to be $425-479 around here, the only one in stock is $479.
Hey anybody have a good cheap red dot sight that would work great with this rifle? Or know of any?
They are showing up in Georgia now. Prices seem to be $425-479 around here, the only one in stock is $479.
Got mine for $459.00 today. Happiness is a new gun on Friday afternoon.:)
I might be able to get one on tuesday for $425, they just got shipping info on it today.
Anyone get extra mags, or know if they are even available yet?
Brothers, Just got to see and play with a S & W AR 15-22. While I haven't fired 1 yet, Gentlemen, I can tell you this is a nice rimfire rifle. Yes, the upper and lower are plastic. Held together with full forward and rear captive push pins. It's a high quality engineering plastic that will hold up well. Consider Cavalry Arms lowers, they work just fine. And it's light, too. The bolt rides on its own self contained rail system. You can pull the bolt and it's rail system right out of the upper like a regular BCG. Heat and wear just will not be a factor on this rifle. The Hand Rail sytems are plastic, as well, but of a high quality and, unless a person gets crazy on cranking down a clamp screw, will hold up just fine. And, remember, it's a rimfire rifle. Virtually no recoil so whats to slip. Free floating barrel. Lower FCG is standard AR! Sights are good. All controls work as on a normal AR. Lower receiver extension is solid plastic, but is standard Civilian size and you can put what ever brand of Buttstock you prefer on it, no problem. Pistol grip is standard AR, so, same same. One minor point is that the Magazines are proprietary to the S & W so you will have to buy them from Smith. But they are well built and seem to be stout w/o being heavy.
Guys, This is the rimfire rifle I have waited on for years. And, I am no neophite when it comes to ARs. Purchased my 1st AR in 1970. Colt SP1 with a 3 prong flash hider. I have either owned or carried some sort of AR since. I know this weapon inside and out.
As soon as S & W releases the AR 15-22 with a flash hider on it, I will get one, Period. Oh, and dealer price(at least from RSR) is right at $375.00 Not bad.
Boy, I had great hopes for the Colt version. What a POS(IMHO). Hurry, Smith!
FWIW:D
Ofc. JL
I bought one of these on Thursday. After reading the Gunblast review and a couple of others, I decided to go for it. I have not had it to the range yet, but I did order a Vortex Strikefire red dot sight for it, $129 at B&H Photo.
Hopefully I'll have a range report on both soon.
I finally got out to the range with my new 15-22. I HATE when life gets in the way of having fun! :rolleyes:
Let me start by stating something obvious...always read the manual when you buy a new model firearm. I've gotten into the habit of NOT doing that. After all...a 1911 is a 1911 or a Glock is Glock...
I had several issues with the first mag of 25 rounds. I had multiple FTF's and a FTE...along with one destroyed round. I was thinking that I had managed to get one of the dud guns!
Of course, I started searching for the reason why I was having issues. I started loading the mag the same way I had dome with the first mag full. Pull the follower down far enough to dump 5-6 rounds in at a time.
Well....WRONG!
The way the rounds stack into the 15-22's mag is that looking from the of the rear of the mag, the rounds appear as though you are looking at a double stack style mag. The rounds are laid on top of the follower in a V, when looking at them from the top. One round to the left, the next to the right.
When you load the mag, you must load it one round at a time...just as it states in the manual. I was able to load two at a time if I was careful but, just pulling the follower down and dropping in rounds got me nothing but heart ache!
Once I had the mag (there's something not right about only having ONE magazine! :eek: ) loaded the proper way, I had ZERO issues. She fed and extracted the next couple hundred rounds just fine.
My gun's trigger measures 6lbs but has a nice clean break. I was able to shoot sub 2" off hand groups when firing fast...with some slow fire groups that had 3-4 rounds touching and 10-15 round group size around an inch, from 15-20 yards. Not too shabby for having a blind man pulling the trigger. I'm sure that from a rest, the 15-22 will do a lot better.
Field stripping and cleaning was easy, too. Pretty much normal AR.
One thing of note...I installed a Magpul MOE grip on mine. There is a gap between the lower receiver and the top of the grip...at the part of the grip that's above the web of the shooting hand. That part of the 15-22's lower receiver does not extend down as far as a standard AR lower. It doesn't affect shooting or function but, it looks awful!
Other than that cosmetic OOPS, I'm very pleased with the 15-22!
I am interested in seeing what the S & W AR 15-22 has to offer in terms of reviews after it is out there a while.
I purchased a Colt M4 22lr myself and love the all metal construction. Don't shoot the crappy remington gold tip... the Federal bulk works great.
Here is the thread adapter before I tightened it up...
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/ick-xbox/rifle%20collection/Colt%20Umarex/DSC03615.jpg
The colt has a threaded barrel..... which takes a converter..... which allows me to use my 5.56 suppressor with it. A blast with subsonic 22lr.
Here it is next to my Colt M4.....
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/ick-xbox/rifle%20collection/Colt%20Umarex/IMG_0002.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/ick-xbox/rifle%20collection/Colt%20Umarex/IMG_0003.jpg
I have not handled either one, I have just read reviews and talked to some dealers. Im sure they are both good, I just heard that S&W just seems to function more like an AR-15. Some of the reviews on the Colt had FTF issues but that could be from loading the mag, just like DM-SC had with the S&W.
Seems the biggest issue people have with the S&W is that the barrel isnt threaded.
When you load the mag, you must load it one round at a time...just as it states in the manual. I was able to load two at a time if I was careful but, just pulling the follower down and dropping in rounds got me nothing but heart ache!
Once I had the mag (there's something not right about only having ONE magazine! :eek: ) loaded the proper way, I had ZERO issues. She fed and extracted the next couple hundred rounds just fine.
I haven't handled the M&P15-22 yet, but my browning buckmark 22LR mags (also have the knob to let you slide the follower down) work basically the same way. One round at a time or you're asking for a messed up magazine. It still beats trying to *push* the rounds/follower down in some other 22 lr mags I have... :eek:
I learned this drawback to the button my first trek out to the range with that gun myself :D But ultimately, I like the button/knob feature.
Nathan_Bell
08-18-09, 13:09
Got to handle, but not shoot :(, the one Grant has setup with the can and short barrel.
Two words "I want"
Layman’s comparison of Colt and Smith & Wesson M&P 22lr
Got a good look at the M&P 22lr and compared it to my Colt 22lr that I own. Here is how I see them:
1. Colt is all metal construction, M&P is a LOT of polymer. Yeah, yeah, I have a GLOCK and PS90 so I fully appreciate polymer rifles, but the metal of the Colt is way better than the M&P plastic. The M&P just doesn't feel like an AR with the plastic, doesn't matter if the "weight" is approximately right. Colt has the advantage here.
2. The M&P has a functional bolt release, the Colt does not. That is just STUPID. Someone at Colt (as their name is on it, manufactured by Walther apparently) needs FIRED for not having a functional bolt release. Dumb, dumb, dumb. M&P has the advantage here.
3. The M&P trigger area "seems" to have standard internals, but I wouldn't bet my life on that. I have seen enough variations between manufacturers of AR15s to realize that there can be quite a difference in trigger/hammer design and compatibility. The bolt area, like the Colt, is a dedicated design. This is understandable. I don't see much "advantage" in the internal design between Colt and M&P... but perhaps you want someone that is better versed in that sort of thing to provide a comparison based on factual experience. I am not talking some kind of expert "hip shot" assessment that internal components are better in one than the other. "I am an expert in rifles, I spent 15 minutes looking at them in an air-conditioned gun shop, and beyond a shadow of a doubt the better rifle is......" Nah, not an adequate comparison for me. An inspection at a gun shop doesn't cut it. Gather some real data after firing both and report. No difference between them if you ask me for my uninformed opinion, but gather your data and YOU decide.
Edit: Some owners have changed the trigger area, so it must be standard AR parts. The bolt system is proprietary in both weapons though.
4. A threaded barrel is a must IMHO. Yeah, yeah, M&P wanted a system that was "sellable" in all markets and all that.. so that is why no threading..... but the lack of a threaded barrel... heck, the absence of a birdcage is just STUPID. Someone needs FIRED for that decision. Also the absence of a gas block or front sight also gives the weapon a "strange" look. Colt has the advantage here.
Lack of threading, birdcage, gas block “look”
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/ick-xbox/rifle%20collection/MP15/22LR_AR-1.jpg
5. Two major components on the M&P are strange. The hand guard rail system is proprietary so you can't buy something else... although I am not sure why you would. Also I believe the M&P stock is also unable to be changed... it was hard to tell. With the Colt you CAN change out the quad-rail or ribbed hand guards to something else. Also on the Colt you must use their "tube" but you can put on a collapsible stock of any kind (Magpul for example) as long as the tube works with the stock. Colt has a very slight advantage here.
Edit: There are claims that the stock attachment is standard and can be changed to other stocks on the market. Doesn't look like it to me.... but this needs verified.
Looks like you can forget changing the stock….
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/ick-xbox/rifle%20collection/MP15/22LR_AR2.jpg
And the rails are not removable
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/ick-xbox/rifle%20collection/MP15/22LR_AR-2.jpg
6. Pins. I can't believe the guys that whine about "how hard it is to remove the Colt pin". First of all, loosen the bird-cage slightly (as per disassembly instructions) and the pin is easier to remove. Second, a few taps with a hammer on a dowel rod removes the Colt pin. Third, all metal construction of the Colt with a tight fit makes me comfortable. Polymer construction with the M&P with any kind of fit causes me concern on long-term viability of harmonious parts. Again, all metal makes me more comfortable than polymer. Colt has the advantage here.
7. Price. The M&P is about $100 less give or take based on where you buy. M&P has the advantage here.
Soooooo.......
NEITHER of these rifles are the spot-on 22lr wannabe I was looking for. These two companies.... uh, CLOWNS...... should have got together, taken the advantages of each, and made ONE rifle that fits the bill instead of two half-assed 22lr M4 wannabees. Don't get me wrong, I looked at dedicated uppers and drop-in 22lr bolts...... and thus far I am glad I purchased the Colt 22lr.
If someone came up with a functional bolt release for the Colt 22lr.... I would be ecstatic. If they had that I could easily put up with any other faults of the Colt 22lr and it would be an ideal weapon FOR WHAT IT IS, a wannabee 22lr.
Layman’s comparison of Colt and M&P 22lr
Got a good look at the M&P 22lr and compared it to my Colt 22lr that I own. Here is how I see them:
1. Colt is all metal construction, M&P is a LOT of polymer. Yeah, yeah, I have a GLOCK and PS90 so I fully appreciate polymer rifles, but the metal of the Colt is way better than the M&P plastic. The M&P just doesn't feel like an AR with the plastic, doesn't matter if the "weight" is approximately right. Colt has the advantage here.
2. The M&P has a functional bolt release, the Colt does not. That is just STUPID. Someone at Colt needs FIRED for not having a functional bolt release. Dumb, dumb, dumb. M&P has the advantage here.
3. The M&P trigger area "seems" to have standard internals, but I wouldn't bet my life on that. I have seen enough variations between manufacturers of AR15s to realize that there can be quite a difference in trigger/hammer design and compatibility. The bolt area, like the Colt, is a dedicated design. This is understandable. I don't see much "advantage" in the internal design between Colt and M&P... but perhaps you want someone that is better versed in that sort of thing to provide a comparison based on factual experience. I am not talking some kind of expert "hip shot" assessment that internal components are better in one than the other. "I am an expert in rifles, I spent 15 minutes looking at them in an air-conditioned gun shop, and beyond a shadow of a doubt the better rifle is......" Nah, not an adequate comparison for me. An inspection at a gun shop doesn't cut it. Gather some real data after firing both and report. No difference between them if you ask me for my uninformed opinion, but gather your data and YOU decide.
4. A threaded barrel is a must IMHO. Yeah, yeah, M&P wanted a system that was "sellable" in all markets and all that.. so that is why no threading..... but the lack of a threaded barrel... heck, the absence of a birdcage is just STUPID. Someone needs FIRED for that design flaw. Also the absence of a gas block or front sight also gives the weapon a "strange" look. Colt has the advantage here.
5. Two major components on the M&P are strange. The hand guard rail system is proprietary so you can't buy something else... although I am not sure why you would. Also I believe the M&P stock is also unable to be changed... it was hard to tell. With the Colt you CAN change out the quad-rail or ribbed hand guards to something else. Also on the Colt you must use their "tube" but you can put on a collapsible stock of any kind (Magpul for example) as long as the tube works with the stock. Colt has a very slight advantage here.
6. Pins. I can't believe the guys that whine about "how hard it is to remove the Colt pin". First of all, loosen the bird-cage slightly (as per disassembly instructions) and the pin is easier to remove. Second, a few taps with a hammer on a dowel rod removes the Colt pin. Third, all metal construction of the Colt with a tight fit makes me comfortable. Polymer construction with the M&P with any kind of fit causes me concern on long-term viability of harmonious parts. Again, all metal makes me more comfortable than polymer. Colt has the advantage here.
7. Price. The M&P is about $100 less give or take based on where you buy. M&P has the advantage here.
Soooooo.......
NEITHER of these rifles are the spot-on 22lr wannabe I was looking for. These two companies.... uh, CLOWNS...... should have got together, taken the advantages of each, and made ONE rifle that fits the bill instead of two half-assed 22lr M4 wannabees. Don't get me wrong, I looked at dedicated uppers and drop-in 22lr bolts...... and thus far I am glad I purchased the Colt 22lr.
If someone came up with a functional bolt release for the Colt 22lr.... I would be ecstatic. If they had that I could easily put up with any other faults of the Colt 22lr and it would be an ideal weapon FOR WHAT IT IS, a wannabee 22lr.
First who ever did this comparison shouldn't be doing any more of them (as many things they "think" is wrong).
1. I really enjoy having a lightweight weapon (especially in .22LR). No need to add weight where it is not needed.
2. Correct.
3. WRONG! The M&P uses ANY drop in FCG. I am PERSONALLY running a Timney drop in system in mine.
4. Not a design flaw. They needed to get the gun into ALL markets. A barrel can be threaded for little money. You can also cut the barrel down and pin whatever FS you want. In the near future, M&P WILL have threaded barrels. IMHO, the ONLY REAL reason to have a threaded barrel is for mount a can. If you are not using a can, no need to have it threaded!
5. WRONG! You can change out the stock to ANY that will use a MIL-SPEC RE.
6. Should not be of concern. Ever heard of Glock?
7. Correct
C4
Someone at Colt needs FIRED for not having a functional bolt release.
FWIW, Colt does not manufacture this weapon. They only licensed their name and logo to be used. Walther manufactures it and Umarex imports it.
Boy, your attitude is GREAT. Your comments are VERY helpful, just a bit crass. Don't worry, I can take it.
First who ever did this comparison shouldn't be doing any more of them (as many things they "think" is wrong).
1. I really enjoy having a lightweight weapon (especially in .22LR). No need to add weight where it is not needed.
Whatever...... My comments are my opinion. Personally I didn't want a "light" airsoft feel. I wanted a comparable feel and weight to my M4 in 5.56.
3. WRONG! The M&P uses ANY drop in FCG. I am PERSONALLY running a Timney drop in system in mine.
Excellent, I am glad to hear that you can use other triggers. I will change my comments to include that.
4. Not a design flaw. They needed to get the gun into ALL markets. A barrel can be threaded for little money. You can also cut the barrel down and pin whatever FS you want. In the near future, M&P WILL have threaded barrels. IMHO, the ONLY REAL reason to have a threaded barrel is for mount a can. If you are not using a can, no need to have it threaded!
EXACLTY why I made the comments I made. Not a design flaw, perhaps that language is strong, but still stupid IMHO.
5. WRONG! You can change out the stock to ANY that will use a MIL-SPEC RE.
Boy, I would LOVE to see that documented somewhere other than just you saying that. It sure didn't look like it to me. Slap something on yours and throw up a picture for exaple. That would be GREAT if you could swap for something else.
6. Should not be of concern. Ever heard of Glock?
I have a GLOCK and two other rifles that are plastic... so yes I totally understand that PLASTIC is not METAL. You can chime about the advantages of plastic all you want, I am totally on board with plastic in weapons.... but it still is not metal. This weapon system should be metal.
Boy, your attitude is GREAT. Your comments are VERY helpful, just a bit crass. Don't worry, I can take it.
I have a GREAT attitude, just no tolerance for people spreading incorrect info (as it confuses people that don't know any better).
Whatever...... My comments are my opinion. Personally I didn't want a "light" airsoft feel. I wanted a comparable feel and weight to my M4 in 5.56.
This is fine, but would have to disagree with your opinion.
Boy, I would LOVE to see that documented somewhere other than just you saying that. It sure didn't look like it to me. Slap something on yours and throw up a picture for exaple. That would be GREAT if you could swap for something else.
No need to go anywhere else. My word is golden. If I say it will do it, then no need to look any where else for another opinion.
I have a GLOCK and two other rifles that are plastic... so yes I totally understand that PLASTIC is not METAL. You can chime about the advantages of plastic all you want, I am totally on board with plastic in weapons.... but it still is not metal. This weapon system should be metal.
The AR should be metal when chambered in 5.56, not .22LR. No need for metal.
C4
FWIW, Colt does not manufacture this weapon. They only licensed their name and logo to be used. Walther manufactures it and Umarex imports it.
Correct. No one seems to get this.
C4
I have a GREAT attitude, just no tolerance for people spreading incorrect info (as it confuses people that don't know any better).
Agreed, I am glad to get feedback.
This is fine, but would have to disagree with your opinion.
Agreed.
No need to go anywhere else. My word is golden. If I say it will do it, then no need to look any where else for another opinion.
lol. OK, will take it at face value.
The AR should be metal when chambered in 5.56, not .22LR. No need for metal.
From a technical standpoint I would agree that metal is not "required", but I still look for the same weight feel from my 22lr. Unfortunately the lack of a bolt hold-open irritates me about the colt. If not for that lack of a bolt release the function of the 22lr would be a lot better.....
Agreed, I am glad to get feedback.
Agreed.
lol. OK, will take it at face value.
From a technical standpoint I would agree that metal is not "required", but I still look for the same weight feel from my 22lr. Unfortunately the lack of a bolt hold-open irritates me about the colt. If not for that lack of a bolt release the function of the 22lr would be a lot better.....
Realistic functionality is the MOST important thing. The weight of the weapon matters not. I want the same controls as on my AR (from a training stand point).
The other advantage of a polymer weapon is that it is MUCH easier for women and kids to shoot it.
C4
...come to think of it, does the M&P have any kind of adjustment to the bolt for different ammo types?
I haven't heard much in the way of reports on range resutls.
The colt fires sub-sonic without a problem, same for the M&P? Of course if you don't thread the barrel and use a suppressor this is not an issue...
Realistic functionality is the MOST important thing.
Hence my irritation with the non-functional bolt release in the Colt. ALTHOUGH I have been trying to go to the charging handle instead of the bolt release to increase my consistency of shooting movements.
That is a bit "over the top" though..... stupid non-functional bolt release....grumble.....
...come to think of it, does the M&P have any kind of adjustment to the bolt for different ammo types?
I haven't heard much in the way of reports on range resutls.
The colt fires sub-sonic without a problem, same for the M&P? Of course if you don't thread the barrel and use a suppressor this is not an issue...
Hence my irritation with the non-functional bolt release in the Colt. ALTHOUGH I have been trying to go to the charging handle instead of the bolt release to increase my consistency of shooting movements.
That is a bit "over the top" though..... stupid non-functional bolt release....grumble.....
No adjustment needed. We have run the following through the gun with no issues:
CCI Min-Mag HP
CCI Subsonic
Federal match
Wolf Target
Winchester Dynapoints
Remy Golden bullet's do not run.
C4
Remmy golden doesn't run in my Colt 22lr or my GSG5 PK.
Everything I have shot (50% HV federal copper, 50% all sorts of stuff) works fine without bolt adjustment. We did adjust the bolt screw just to see if we could get it to fail and it still worked fine.
Ok so IMO this weapon while not perfect is as close as to the real thing as you can possible get while still keeping all the benefits of shooting a .22. I mean come on we are shooting a .22 if anything the lighter frame works as a benefit for keeping weight down as well as giving the rifle a little bit of recoil so I can build my son's confidence up to where he is comfortable shooting Dad's full size rifles still have a way to go though. (he just turned 6)
Ok so I've had mine for almost a week now went out to the range last saturday sorry no pics need a new camera. IMO this is one very accurate rifle I was able to keep 1" to 2" groups firing offhand with iron sights. Didn't have any FTF issues in just over 550 rounds. The only down side I have to this rifle is the one magazine man that got old reloading every 5 seconds, but for $400.00 I can not complain at all. CHEAP, FUN, RELIABLE thats all I could ever ask for in a 400 dollar rifle.
Ok so IMO this weapon while not perfect is as close as to the real thing as you can possible get while still keeping all the benefits of shooting a .22. I mean come on we are shooting a .22 if anything the lighter frame works as a benefit for keeping weight down as well as giving the rifle a little bit of recoil so I can build my son's confidence up to where he is comfortable shooting Dad's full size rifles still have a way to go though. (he just turned 6)
Ok so I've had mine for almost a week now went out to the range last saturday sorry no pics need a new camera. IMO this is one very accurate rifle I was able to keep 1" to 2" groups firing offhand with iron sights. Didn't have any FTF issues in just over 550 rounds. The only down side I have to this rifle is the one magazine man that got old reloading every 5 seconds, but for $400.00 I can not complain at all. CHEAP, FUN, RELIABLE thats all I could ever ask for in a 400 dollar rifle.
Agreed.
Where did you snag one for $400.00? A mole at the VERY large outfit I got mine through claimed 380.00 was the dealer price...
Agreed.
Where did you snag one for $400.00? A mole at the VERY large outfit I got mine through claimed 380.00 was the dealer price...
Got mine at a local shop in Tacoma, Wa and I was told the dealer price was 380ish as well
on point firearms Has the S&W listed for $ 372.91.
The Colt has too many non functioning things on it. Yes the bolt release is fake, so is the forward assist, and the trigger group pins are fake.
on point firearms Has the S&W listed for $ 372.91.
Not in stock though...they also show a pic of it with what looks to be a fake suppressor.
At that price I am sure they have a waiting list a mile long.
The pic with the suppressor has been floating around for a while, and the rifle they had at SHOT'09 on display had one.
Agreed.
Where did you snag one for $400.00? A mole at the VERY large outfit I got mine through claimed 380.00 was the dealer price...
thats probably about right, the few dealers ive talked to have told me they only mark their guns up about 10 percent.
Boy, I would LOVE to see that documented somewhere other than just you saying that. It sure didn't look like it to me. Slap something on yours and throw up a picture for exaple. That would be GREAT if you could swap for something else..
Here ya go...my 15-22 with a Magpul Moe stock...
http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/44437/2775054770034396004S600x600Q85.jpg
It is true that you can't change the buffer tube but then, why would you want to?
[Edited to update pic]
what is the benefit of this gun vs. buying a .22lr upper for an AR lower? is there something that it does better? it seems this gun gives you limitations, whereas an upper gives you versatility.
I dont think it does anything better. I dont agree with it having limitations, if you buy a .22 upper which costs about the same amount you still only have 1 firearm. Buying this gives you 2 firearms so you can shoot with your kid, wife, friend....
My interest in these is rising...what kind of sights come on the rifle? They look like LMT sights.
CAR-AR-M16
08-23-09, 08:18
4. Not a design flaw. They needed to get the gun into ALL markets. A barrel can be threaded for little money. You can also cut the barrel down and pin whatever FS you want. In the near future, M&P WILL have threaded barrels. IMHO, the ONLY REAL reason to have a threaded barrel is for mount a can. If you are not using a can, no need to have it threaded!
C4
Grant, any updates on when S&W will be releasing the threaded barrel version?
My interest in these is rising...what kind of sights come on the rifle? They look like LMT sights.
Though the sights look to be of good quality, they are not LMT.
The 10 round mags aren't out until October evidently so we'll have to wait a bit to see them here.
I like the light weight on the S&W. A skosh lighter then a 10-22 and with the collapsed stock my son could shoot it. He's about to outgrow his Cricket. When he's not using it, I'll have a cheap plinker.
I was not impressed with the Colts / Umarex rifles I've handled.
Grant, any updates on when S&W will be releasing the threaded barrel version?
I know they are working on it now.
C4
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=124&t=178402
Grant (or other knowledgeable M&P 15-22 owner),
Can you address the issue some folks seem to be having regarding the rear take-down detent/spring position, and how it affects those wanting to put a different grip on it, specifically the MIAD or the MOE? Thanks.
Grant (or other knowledgeable M&P 15-22 owner),
Can you address the issue some folks seem to be having regarding the rear take-down detent/spring position, and how it affects those wanting to put a different grip on it, specifically the MIAD or the MOE? Thanks.
I am unaware of any issues. Then again, I installed a Tango Down Battlegrip. ;)
C4
Nice. I believe I've got one of those, and maybe an Ergo somewhere in the box of discarded LPK A2 grips. Any chance we can get a look at the one you have been running, with the can and all? Much appreciated.
Grant (or other knowledgeable M&P 15-22 owner),
Can you address the issue some folks seem to be having regarding the rear take-down detent/spring position, and how it affects those wanting to put a different grip on it, specifically the MIAD or the MOE? Thanks.
I have a MOE grip installed on my 15-22. After I was asked about the detent spring/Moe (and other, similar grips) grip issue...I decided to check mine out a bit closer.
I shot about 200 or so rounds through mine, with the MOE grip installed, and didn't have any issues with the take down pin walking out. I checked the pin and it had a very discernible "click" when pushing it out and, it was functional.
Not being able to leave well enough alone...I removed the grip for a look. Some how, on my very first try when I originally installed the grip, I managed to catch the spring on the outer edge of the grip.
I wasn't so lucky when I was trying to re-install the grip! It took me several tries but I managed to get the spring to catch the outer edge, again. My detent is working again, too.
I'm thinking about fitting a piece of hard plastic to the recess in the grip and then gluing it in place with two-part epoxy.
I pulled a MIAD from one of my AR's and the tab that the spring wants to go behind, has a bit more material to it. I didn't try installing a MIAD on my 15-22 so, I can;t say if it works better than the MOE grip.
Not sure if it will help anyone here, but Academy in Houston has both the S&W ($449) and Colt ($599) rifles. I picked up the former just last night. :D
Shot this little thing yesterday the bolt does hold back after the last shot it was fun and would be a great canadite for a suppressor and optics.
THat is All...
DM-SC,
Thanks for the response. I'm picking mine up on Friday I hope, so I'll have a look at it then. Much appreciated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeSp9eCfcKw&feature=related
This video along with all the reviews on here and else make me even more glad that I chose the S&W instead
Grant,
Do you have any pics of the rifle that you cut the barrel down on?
For anybody interested in getting more magazines. You can order them directly from S&W I just ordered 4 of them it works out to about 27.00 each after shipping and tax. According to the rep I spoke with they just shipped out a batch of 1000 or so, and if they keep at the same pace should be sent out within the next 10-14 days:D. Which makes me a whole lot happier as this is one fun little gun and I can only imagine how much more fun I will have not having to reload every 3 seconds.
$27 each? Either they upped the price or your shipping was a lot more than mine.
I ordered 4 about 7-8 days ago and the total worked out to about $23 each with shipping.
CAR-AR-M16
08-26-09, 21:09
How many mags come with the gun?
$27 each? Either they upped the price or your shipping was a lot more than mine.
I ordered 4 about 7-8 days ago and the total worked out to about $23 each with shipping.
I didn't use standard ground so that's probably why
I received my 4 spare mags form S&W today! :cool:
I received my 4 spare mags form S&W today! :cool:
Nice can't wait for mine
Spotted these photos on the AAC Blog (http://www.aacblog.com/?paged=2)...
http://www.aacblog.com/wp-content/uploads/arblog3.jpg
http://www.aacblog.com/wp-content/uploads/arblog2.jpg
http://www.aacblog.com/wp-content/uploads/ARblog-600x400.jpg
I'd like to see a factory 15-22 with MagPul accessories (MOE Grip, MOE Stock and MBUS) and threaded barrel.
I got to the range with mine the other day. This is the write up ...
***********************************
I took the S&W .22 to the range today, only had a few minutes and I wasn't really planning to go so I didn't have all my "stuff" with me. Didn't even have any targets to put up.
So I just plinked at clay pigeon pieces on the backstop and whatever else I could find for impromptu targets.
Smith & Wesson has a winner here! I was shooting on the 25 yard range, so I'd guess the backstop was about 30 yards. The sights were dead nuts right out of the box, I don't think that's ever happened to me before.
Someone must have recently shot some milk jugs out there, there were several red caps laying around the backstop. Hitting these milk jug caps at 30 yards was no problem at all, and any piece of clay pigeon that was visible at 30 yards would just disappear after one shot.
I did have several failures to fire, 6 or 7 out of about 200 rounds fired, but all had a healthy dent from the firing pin, I think they were just duds. I shot some American Eagle HPs, Federal Value Pack HPs, Remington golden bullets, and some unknown lead bullet ammo from Remington. All but one of the failures to fire were with the Rem golden bullets, which rarely work for me anyway.
It's 103 here right now, so it was too hot to stay out very long anyway. But I am extremely happy with this little gun and hope to find some of the recommended CCI ammo for it soon.
Got mine yesterday, put it to work today. Fired 1,000 rounds of CCI, great time. Only problems I had were when I loaded the mags to capacity it caused a double feed 75% of the time, other than that and the sore fingers it is a great way to keep up on my shooting habit. I ordered 5 extra mags yesterday and got a confirmation that they should be here by tuesday.
Got mine yesterday, put it to work today. Fired 1,000 rounds of CCI, great time. Only problems I had were when I loaded the mags to capacity it caused a double feed 75% of the time, other than that and the sore fingers it is a great way to keep up on my shooting habit. I ordered 5 extra mags yesterday and got a confirmation that they should be here by tuesday.
Something I found when loading the mag was to keep it at one round at a time and to make sure they are lining up pretty straight
Grant,
Do you have any pics of the rifle that you cut the barrel down on?
No, not yet.
C4
Something I found when loading the mag was to keep it at one round at a time and to make sure they are lining up pretty straight
Yep...one round at a time is very important!
DemskeetSkeet
08-29-09, 18:01
Got mine yesterday, put it to work today. Fired 1,000 rounds of CCI, great time. Only problems I had were when I loaded the mags to capacity it caused a double feed 75% of the time, other than that and the sore fingers it is a great way to keep up on my shooting habit. I ordered 5 extra mags yesterday and got a confirmation that they should be here by tuesday.
Now what's the deal!?!?!?
I ordered mine a week ago and never received an email or anything stating back order or arrival date.
Nothing has been charged to my card either.
I think others have been receiving and some haven't.
Not sure what the deal is but I am not liking this Smith & Wesson online store at all.
Call S&W Customer Service and ask them to verify your order has been placed.
1-800-331-0852
DemskeetSkeet
08-29-09, 19:23
Call S&W Customer Service and ask them to verify your order has been placed.
1-800-331-0852
No one is available on the weekends.
I will call them Monday.
I received an order number and everything.
Strange.
No one is available on the weekends.
I will call them Monday.
I received an order number and everything.
Strange.
the S&W rep I spoke with said that they just shipped a batch of 1000 or so and they usually wait till the orders stack up to about 500 or so before they start shiping due to the demand right now I ordered mine last monday and he said about 2 1/2 weeks is what i should expect
Wanted to give a brief range report:
I took out the new M&P 15-22 for some plinking fun. Sights were right on, required no adjusting. This gun has become a dumping ground for all of my extra Magpul accessories. I stuck a G2 in a Vltor in-line mount at the 9 o'clock position, and temporarily put a CTR stock on it for the range session.
I gave it a work out of 180 rounds of CCI Mini-Mags, and about 30 of Federal Bulk pack. It ran the Mini-Mags fine with only 2 misfires (dud rounds, which surprised me for Mini-Mags). It had some interesting feed issues which I chalk up to the magazine, as some of the rounds sat horizontally in the mag, and yes, I was loading one at a time. I had to make the conscious effort to check and make sure the round seated at the proper angle. It seemed as though some of the rounds just wouldn't seat correctly, thereby causing a weird feed issue where the round would end up vertical in the chamber with the lip of the casing caught in the forward most part of the magazine. Once I started paying more attention to the angle of the round in the magazine, I realized it was just an issue of some of the rounds not feeding at an angle, but being caught on the horizontal. I hope that makes sense. It made for some fun double-feed-style clearing practice... after all, this is a training tool.
Since it is so easy to break down and clean, I took the bolt group out and noticed an appropriate amount of build-up, wiped it off, gave it another coat of Break-free, and kept right on shooting. It was a great time and I am very happy with the purchase. I'll be getting more magazines and testing my theory on round seating. I understand not all .22 semi-auto's will be completely reliable, but I think this one is as good as it gets in an AR-style platform with the ease of maintenance and interfacing with a standard AR. Go get your's today! Pictures to come.
DemskeetSkeet
09-02-09, 13:08
Wanted to give a brief range report:
I took out the new M&P 15-22 for some plinking fun. Sights were right on, required no adjusting. This gun has become a dumping ground for all of my extra Magpul accessories. I stuck a G2 in a Vltor in-line mount at the 9 o'clock position, and temporarily put a CTR stock on it for the range session.
I gave it a work out of 180 rounds of CCI Mini-Mags, and about 30 of Federal Bulk pack. It ran the Mini-Mags fine with only 2 misfires (dud rounds, which surprised me for Mini-Mags). It had some interesting feed issues which I chalk up to the magazine, as some of the rounds sat horizontally in the mag, and yes, I was loading one at a time. I had to make the conscious effort to check and make sure the round seated at the proper angle. It seemed as though some of the rounds just wouldn't seat correctly, thereby causing a weird feed issue where the round would end up vertical in the chamber with the lip of the casing caught in the forward most part of the magazine. Once I started paying more attention to the angle of the round in the magazine, I realized it was just an issue of some of the rounds not feeding at an angle, but being caught on the horizontal. I hope that makes sense. It made for some fun double-feed-style clearing practice... after all, this is a training tool.
Since it is so easy to break down and clean, I took the bolt group out and noticed an appropriate amount of build-up, wiped it off, gave it another coat of Break-free, and kept right on shooting. It was a great time and I am very happy with the purchase. I'll be getting more magazines and testing my theory on round seating. I understand not all .22 semi-auto's will be completely reliable, but I think this one is as good as it gets in an AR-style platform with the ease of maintenance and interfacing with a standard AR. Go get your's today! Pictures to come.
That's good to hear!
Well....I contacted S&W today, my order is still in place. I am guessing that they are just on back order.
Oh well. Hopefully they get here before the gun comes in.
Yeah I would have to agree if you pay attention to how you load the magazine with the round having a slight upward tilt it will feed flawlessly. I have had mine for about a month and after about 3000 rounds I have had maybe 5-10 FTF or duds. I started out using CCI mini mags for the first 1000 rounds or so after that have used nothing but blazer ammo. Accurancy is by far better that I would have ever expected using nothing but irons I'm able to keep a 2 inch group at anywhere from 30-50 yards doing rapid fire strings of 3-5 rounds. Trigger pull is smoth and crisp. As stated above cleaning is easy and fast which makes field cleaning easy which does come in handy when shooting .22lr. With the gun being a polymer based firearm I was a little concerned with durability but last weekend went to the range with my son we put about 1200 rounds down range in about 1 1/2 hours or so while it did get warmer it had no ill effects on accuracy or reliability. All in all I think I will be getting another one real soon sorry no real good pics only had my cell phone
We now have mags in stock!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=404850000
C4
Too bad I already ordered from S&W :mad:
Too bad I already ordered from S&W :mad:
Heck, you can always use a few more. With more practice, maybe you could shrink those ungainly 2 inch, rapid fire, 50 yard, iron sighted groups you mentioned.;)
Heck, you can always use a few more. With more practice, maybe you could shrink those ungainly 2 inch, rapid fire, 50 yard, iron sighted groups you mentioned.;)
kudo's to you if 25 rounds in a 2 inch group in 7-10 seconds or less at a moving target from 30-50 yards is a bad group for you but I'm happy with my level of marksmanship and I really don't need more than the 7 mags I now have;)
Somebody needs to put a scope on it & see what kind of accuracy they can get.
DemskeetSkeet
09-03-09, 18:10
Somebody needs to put a scope on it & see what kind of accuracy they can get.
I agree!
Also just got word that S&W charged my card for the two mags I ordered!
I agree!
Also just got word that S&W charged my card for the two mags I ordered!
Nothing beats finding out you should be getting some magazines in the mail before a 3 day weekend
Just got off the line with S&W CS. They have mags for the 15-22 in stock. :D
We now have mags in stock!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=404850000
C4
I just saw that! I've been hunting for mags for this guy. Just ordered 4 from ya' :)
DemskeetSkeet
09-04-09, 20:56
Nothing beats finding out you should be getting some magazines in the mail before a 3 day weekend
Well just got a tracking number, come to find out that it won't be here until Tuesday.
Oh well, I don't even have the gun yet. lol
motorolahamm
09-04-09, 22:00
just wondering if those are lmt sights on there and do they come with the purchase
just wondering if those are lmt sights on there and do they come with the purchase
Not LMT sights. Some kind of knock-off. They come standard.
kudo's to you if 25 rounds in a 2 inch group in 7-10 seconds or less at a moving target from 30-50 yards is a bad group for you but I'm happy with my level of marksmanship and I really don't need more than the 7 mags I now have;)
jrainer,
My apologies, the "ungainly" comment was tongue-firmly-in-cheek. Now that you've added the moving target element to the 50 yard, rapid fire, 25 round, 2 inch, 22lr group, I am truly humbled.;)
For me I might go this route (IMHO) because:
1. Some of those conversion kits don't work very well.
2. If I do go this route, I want it dedicated.. plus the twist rate would be correct for the 22LR rather than having to use the 223 twist rate
3. The P22 or Mosquito crap doesn't compare to the MP15-22. I saw the MP15-22 in action with Travis Haley.. It worked flawlessly, and boy was he having fun with it.
It's a nice little rifle and I'm thinking of picking one up.
grant, are you going to put these on your site?
Another question for Grant.
For those that are about to purchase or have already purchased a S&W M&P 15-22, can your source thread the end of the barrel for future surpressor or flash hiders?
If you read the thread it has already happened.
If you read the thread it has already happened.
I understand that. My question is will the source (whomever did it for Grant) do it for others that want their barrel threaded.
DemskeetSkeet
09-06-09, 21:19
I understand that. My question is will the source (whomever did it for Grant) do it for others that want their barrel threaded.
I'm sure most gun smith's and people who work with metal can thread the barrel for you at a decent price.
Just need to know the size thread of the suppressor or flash hider you are using.
Does anyone know if the addition of a flash suppressor is the only difference between the model to come and the present one? I have a bead on one for $475 a little high I think but I can wait if the newer ones have a few extras.
thanks
angel
DemskeetSkeet
09-10-09, 20:06
Does anyone know if the addition of a flash suppressor is the only difference between the model to come and the present one? I have a bead on one for $475 a little high I think but I can wait if the newer ones have a few extras.
thanks
angel
No one knows for sure. It's not that hard or expensive to have someone thread the outer part of your barrel for you.
No one knows for sure. It's not that hard or expensive to have someone thread the outer part of your barrel for you.
I was quoted $100.00 today to thread my 15-22 barrel. Sounded high to me. :confused:
I was quoted $100.00 today to thread my 15-22 barrel. Sounded high to me. :confused:
Shoot Adco an email
http://www.adcofirearms.com/shopservices/
a guy i work with just bought one and after messing with his i will DEFINATELY be buying one of these!!! gotta work on getting my nfa trust first though so i can get an auto ar
It had some interesting feed issues which I chalk up to the magazine, as some of the rounds sat horizontally in the mag, and yes, I was loading one at a time. I had to make the conscious effort to check and make sure the round seated at the proper angle. It seemed as though some of the rounds just wouldn't seat correctly, thereby causing a weird feed issue where the round would end up vertical in the chamber with the lip of the casing caught in the forward most part of the magazine.
I had the same issue with mine on its first trip to the range last weekend, but it didn't matter how much attention I paid to loading the mag nor which ammo (CCI, Federal, Remington, Winchester), I still had the same issues. I borrowed my buddy's magazine, and no matter how sloppily I loaded it with all sorts of ammo, it ran perfectly fine in my gun without a single hiccup.
Accuracy was excellent at 50 and 100 yards (using a cheap-o Bushnell Trophy RDS).
I had the same issue with mine on its first trip to the range last weekend, but it didn't matter how much attention I paid to loading the mag nor which ammo (CCI, Federal, Remington, Winchester), I still had the same issues. I borrowed my buddy's magazine, and no matter how sloppily I loaded it with all sorts of ammo, it ran perfectly fine in my gun without a single hiccup.
Accuracy was excellent at 50 and 100 yards (using a cheap-o Bushnell Trophy RDS).
How excellent? Group size?:cool:
I own both a Colt/Umarex M4 and a Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22. The Colt came out first and I joined the buying frenzy for one. After reading about problems with them on several forums I was happy when mine proved to be reliable and accurate. My biggest gripe was that you couldn't remove the bolt and carrier for maintenance.
Enter the Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22, I was able to buy one with a LEO price of $369.00 so I grabbed one. I must say that after shooting the two side by side that I much prefer the S&W. They took their time and engineered it right, the trigger is much better, and it takes down like a full size AR. The M&P is just a better gun which better build quality and when there are more of them in the marketplace I predict they will outsell the Colt/Umarex M4s by a wide margin. The only thing I like better with the Colt is that it looks more like an M4.
Submariner
09-12-09, 16:31
I do not like novelties. I would prefer a regular AR with a conversion that I can get real use out of and is more versatile than this.
I agree.
We bought three Rick Kuehl dedicated .22LR uppers uppers 2004-2005 and posted two on Grant's old board. I have used bulk Federal exclusively. They run like sewing machines so long as they get cleaned at the end of the day. And at the end of the day, there is a real Colt upper to replace it on a Colt lower.
Sold Ceiner mags to get Black Dog full-size. Four have been replaced due to cracks. We're looking at CMMG's from Aim. Cheap and, perhaps, a better polymer.
S&W finally changed the ad on their front page from "coming soon" to "Is now available", hopefully that means the back orders will end soon.
I am looking to get one of these. Any idea on where the best pricing is available? I do not mind waiting.
I agree.
Sold Ceiner mags to get Black Dog full-size. Four have been replaced due to cracks. We're looking at CMMG's from Aim. Cheap and, perhaps, a better polymer.
Paul, we have a CMMG dedicated upper, CMMG conversion unit, and Spikes conversion unit that we are running. 3 each BDM mags and 6 each CMMG mags. Of the two thousand rounds we've had the opportunity to put through these, both the CMMG and BDM mags have run flawlessly. I will stick with the CMMG mags simply because of the $10-$15 difference in price.
Jay Cunningham
09-15-09, 11:57
I got to shoot one of these S&W .22s this weekend - pretty neat.
Sick all that and a threaded barrel for a silencer.
I want one.
I saw this thing in a magazine ad and immediately hoped it would be affordable, because .22conversion kits aren't the answer.
You need a dedicated hammer spring for .22lr. This way it should be attainable.
The barrels now are not threaded.
As for best price, people have posted around $400. I know On point firearms lists them at $ 372.91, but have not seen them in stock since august there.
I am looking to get one of these. Any idea on where the best pricing is available? I do not mind waiting.
Do you have an Academy close by? They are pretty reasonable.
For me I might go this route (IMHO) because:
1. Some of those conversion kits don't work very well.
2. If I do go this route, I want it dedicated.. plus the twist rate would be correct for the 22LR rather than having to use the 223 twist rate
3. The P22 or Mosquito crap doesn't compare to the MP15-22. I saw the MP15-22 in action with Travis Haley.. It worked flawlessly, and boy was he having fun with it.
It's a nice little rifle and I'm thinking of picking one up.
I'm thinking of getting one too. :D
If you have an aimpoint t-1 or h-1 on your ar, what reasonably priced similar red dot would you get for the .22?
If you have an aimpoint t-1 or h-1 on your ar, what reasonably priced similar red dot would you get for the .22?
The first one that came to my mind as I was thinking the same thing is the Sig STS-081 4MOA RDS which is in the $100 range.
Need to see how it would mount up to a DD mount or something similar though.
I took my M&P 22-15 to the range today for the first time and it was a hoot to shoot.
What kind of accuracy were you getting with it ?
What kind of accuracy were you getting with it ?
Here is a long story short. Before I took it to the range I changed out the rear sight to a Magpul BUIS and I also completely took the front sight apart. So in my excitement to go to the range today I forgot to bring my front sight tool so I just test fired it for reliability which it did really well. I wasn't spending the time trying to aim for a good group but more quick firing and double tapping. I plan to go to the range again next week and sight it in. I will report back.
Another little change I did was remove the fore grip barrel spacer so that the barrel is fully free floated now.
Mine really likes Federal 710s 40 gr solid. At 25 yds there is one ragged hole about 3/4". At 50 yds groups hover at just over 1", at 100 yds the best I could do was about 3 to 4". This M&P 15-22 is about equal with my Colt/Umarex M4 at 25 yds. But beyond that, the full size barrel and better trigger on the M&P readily outshoot the Colt.
ar71stingray
09-25-09, 22:35
Hello. I made a tool to remove the barrel nut and have my M&P 15-22 disassembled but I cannot figure out how to remove the breech section from the barrel. I removed the two pins but there must be something I am missing. Given the ejector and feed ramp, I am reluctant to use much force.
Thanks for any help.
Hello. I made a tool to remove the barrel nut and have my M&P 15-22 disassembled but I cannot figure out how to remove the breech section from the barrel. I removed the two pins but there must be something I am missing. Given the ejector and feed ramp, I am reluctant to use much force.
Thanks for any help.
I wish I could help you, hopefully someone out there can. Do you have a picture of the tool you used to remove the barrel?
Hello. I made a tool to remove the barrel nut and have my M&P 15-22 disassembled but I cannot figure out how to remove the breech section from the barrel. I removed the two pins but there must be something I am missing. Given the ejector and feed ramp, I am reluctant to use much force.
Thanks for any help.
Uhm the barrel comes out from the BACK of the receiver.
When you re-install the barrel and barrel nut, only put about 15lbs of torque on it.
C4
Hrmm Im not sure what he is asking.
Grant already detailed about how the whole thing is disassembled at the start of this thread. Not sure if he doesnt know to just pull the barrel out through the upper towards the stock side, or if he wants to take the feed ramp part off the barrel.
Grant, did you ever get the barrel cut and threaded?
Grant, did you ever get the barrel cut and threaded?
Sure did.
C4
Sure did.
C4
Did you ever post a pic of it? I have searched through this and didn't see anything, though I probably missed it.
Did you ever post a pic of it? I have searched through this and didn't see anything, though I probably missed it.
I did not.
C4
Holding back gun pics is wrong.
Mine really likes Federal 710s 40 gr solid. At 25 yds there is one ragged hole about 3/4". At 50 yds groups hover at just over 1", at 100 yds the best I could do was about 3 to 4". This M&P 15-22 is about equal with my Colt/Umarex M4 at 25 yds. But beyond that, the full size barrel and better trigger on the M&P readily outshoot the Colt.
How does this compare to the accuracy of a ciener 22 convesion kit?
Mine really likes Federal 710s 40 gr solid. At 25 yds there is one ragged hole about 3/4". At 50 yds groups hover at just over 1", at 100 yds the best I could do was about 3 to 4". This M&P 15-22 is about equal with my Colt/Umarex M4 at 25 yds. But beyond that, the full size barrel and better trigger on the M&P readily outshoot the Colt.
What power scope were you using ?
ar71stingray
09-26-09, 13:42
(Sorry if I have hijacked this thread)
For those of you who are interested, I have tried to include an image of the disassembled barrel and parts as well as the homemade tool that I used to remove the barrel nut.
After several minutes of working slowly with a brass drift punch, I was able to separate the feed ramp/extractor from the barrel. Next the barrel is off to be threaded for a supresssor.
Hope each of you enjoy your M&P 15-22. Removing the components turned out to be fairly easy and I am looking forward to getting it back together.
Bob
great thread, thanks for the info
(Sorry if I have hijacked this thread)
For those of you who are interested, I have tried to include an image of the disassembled barrel and parts as well as the homemade tool that I used to remove the barrel nut.
After several minutes of working slowly with a brass drift punch, I was able to separate the feed ramp/extractor from the barrel. Next the barrel is off to be threaded for a supresssor.
Hope each of you enjoy your M&P 15-22. Removing the components turned out to be fairly easy and I am looking forward to getting it back together.
Bob
Could you post the dimensions of your bbl nut tool? Looks easy to make.
Thanks in advance.
ar71stingray
10-05-09, 21:03
Hello. I made the tool out of a 15 inch section of an aluminum tripod leg that had an inside opening diameter of approximately .92 (inch) and an outside diameter of 1.05 (see image).
The barrel nut is approximately 1.1235 in diameter and has 4 sections that are cut out (see image). I used a Dremel tool to cut (fairly roughly) out 4 fingers in order to engage the nut (see image).
That is about all there was to it--the tripod leg is fairly sturdy and thankfully the nut was not so tight as to strip off the fingers. I did drill a hole in the upper part of the tool in order to insert a rod to get enough torque.
Hope this helps.
Bob
Great, thanks for the additional detail! Does the handguard separate from the receiver once the bbl is removed, or are they molded together?
ar71stingray
10-05-09, 22:36
Yes, they separate into two distinct pieces. The receiver has a metal sleeve that the barrel goes through. The handguard is pretty light but seems very rigid. I did not try to fit an aftermarket handguard but my guess it would take some fabrication to make one work since the barrel nut tightens against the receiver end of the handguard like a clamp to keep the barrel, receiver and handguard together as a unit.
Bob
Do you have pictures of it disassembled?
ar71stingray
10-06-09, 13:58
Here are the two sections side by side--quality of the image is not great but I believe you can see where the upper and lower areas mate together.
Bob
Got one of these yesterday and put a quick zero on it this morning before it started pissing rain. I then fed it everything I could find. The only thing it wouldn't cycle were CB Longs and shotshells, but that's to be expected. I'm happiest that it likes the PMC Sidewinders, because I've got about 3,000 of those.
I'll get a solid 50yd zero on it when I can bench it, but even with the quick one I threw on it today I was knocking walnuts off the trees shooting offhand from about 20yds. A bit later in the day I zapped a red squirrel from about 30yds offhand. This little red dot and the handling of the rifle made it quick to snap up and end his nut collecting days.
http://gallery.me.com/sgtlmj/100169/mp1522-2/web.jpg
http://gallery.me.com/sgtlmj/100169/mp1522-1/web.jpg
http://gallery.me.com/sgtlmj/100169/mp1522-3/web.jpg
http://gallery.me.com/sgtlmj/100169/IMG_5830/web.jpg
I want to get one of these for my son's 10th birthday. Anyone have any leads where I can get one at a fair price?
I want to get one of these for my son's 10th birthday. Anyone have any leads where I can get one at a fair price?
Did you try Grant at G&R Tactical?
Did you try Grant at G&R Tactical?
I sent him a PM. :)
http://gallery.me.com/sgtlmj/100169/mp1522-1/web.jpg
http://gallery.me.com/sgtlmj/100169/mp1522-3/web.jpg
Nice pics. Seeing Fed Bulk packs for $8.88 is wishful thinking these days.
I haven't had a semi-auto that was this fun to shoot in a while. Got lots of 22LR stored up from days gone by that I'll have to shoot up.
patrickm1587
10-09-09, 18:35
Just wanted to chime in here. I've had my s&w 15-22 about 3 weeks now and I absolutely love it. I've put a little over 700 rounds through it with only one jam. And that was early on, and it happened in the clip. All I have shot through it is Centurion's. I've added a red/green dot sight along with a l.e.d. light and a sling and I just love the gun. I've heard of people having a lot of problems out of these guns, but I've yet to see it!!!
I haven't had a semi-auto that was this fun to shoot in a while. Got lots of 22LR stored up from days gone by that I'll have to shoot up.
I would have to agree I have had mine since they came out and I have put over 6000 rounds through it with maybe 10-15 ftf and I love this little gun!!!
I gave mine a bit of a torture test the other day. Ran 500rds through it as fast as I could. Had 3 ammo-related failures, caused from old 22's that just didn't have enough oomph to throw the bolt back. I was shooting at an old burn barrel, so I could hear the bullets impact in case I had one get stuck in the bbl from a crappy old round.
It ate everything. Old Rem Thunderbolts were a bit scary because they still had powder burning in the cases as they came out. Lightning Bolts would be a better name for those.
I gave it a shot of foaming bore cleaner after I was done, allowing the foam to flow into the receiver and work on the bolt as well. After an hour or so, I ran a couple patches through the bore and wiped everything else down.
Very happy still. I have a TD stubby VFG and a set of MBUS coming for it.
Smith & Wesson really hit a home run with their M&P15-22, I predict it to be their best seller this year, and with new versions on the horizon next year may be even better. I bought a Colt/Umarex first when they came out, but it is totally outclassed by the M&P and I never shoot it anymore. Today I received the 3 extra magazines I ordered from S&W, so now I'll enjoy this rifle even more.
Didn't want to post this untill I gave them a chance to make it right. Was out shooting mine about 2 weeks ago and it started to fail to feed, sometimes right off the bat on a fresh mag and other times it would feed a few jam up feed a few more and so on. I took it apart to give it a good cleaning to see if that would fix the problem and when I broke the upper off the lower I noticed the feed ramps had broke off. I took it back to the dealer where I bought it and they contacted s&w and shipped it off. It came back a week later with a brand new barrel and is working just as it was before the problem. Rifle was around the 3k mark when it broke.
Added a couple accessories to mine.
http://gallery.me.com/sgtlmj/100169/IMG_5832/web.jpg
Here's mine with an M16 flash hider, Burris XTS-135 in Burris ring and MI flip-up sights.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Smith%20and%20Wesson%2022LR/IMG_0240.jpg
Here's mine with an M16 flash hider, Burris XTS-135 in Burris ring and MI flip-up sights.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Smith%20and%20Wesson%2022LR/IMG_0240.jpg
How did you attach the hider?
The flash hider makes it look so much better.
Here's mine with an M16 flash hider, Burris XTS-135 in Burris ring and MI flip-up sights.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Smith%20and%20Wesson%2022LR/IMG_0240.jpg
That is sure good looking. I want to copy it. I would like there to be an alternative way to threading the end of my barrel to mounting the flash supressor.
Mine, with threaded barrel and flash suppressor.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/GM_Fan/Gun%20stuff/DSC_0381.jpg
How did you attach the hider?
I threaded it 1/2x28.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.