"Full" kit?

[ToddG]

Didn't really see this addressed in the other "kit" threads.

Let's suppose I'm willing to spend the money on a fairly comprehensive kit to keep in the trunk in the event that I, with my tremendous 52 hours of training, am forced to singlehandedly respond to the apocalypse. I do not need anything that involves putting additional holes in people, as I've got no training to do so.

I was looking at something like this bag from Galls (http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=TK084) which quite literally seems to cover every single thing I was trained to do.

It's understood that the odds are I'll never use 95% of the stuff in the bag, but it seems like cheap insurance rather than finding myself in a situation where I need something and don't have it.

[NinjaMedic]

1 - BVM
2 - Rolls Kerlix (4")
1 - 4"-8" thick handful of non-sterile gauze in ziplock baggie
1 - Trauma Dressing (the huge gauze pads like 20" by 15"
1 - 4" Ace bandage
2 - Tourniquets
2 - Triangular Bandages
1 - OB KIT (http://www.buyemp.com/product/1112101.html)
1 - Baby Beanie (http://www.buyemp.com/product/1112203.html)
1 - 500mL bottle NS or Sterile Water
1 - Biggest Damn box of different types of Band-Aids that you can find (including at least some kid friendly animal or cartoon print)
1 - Tube of Neosporin Triple Antibiotic
1 - Container of Bug Spray just the standard 5000% DEET is sufficient
1 - Bottle of spray type topical Benadryl
1 - Bottle of very high SPH sunbock
1 - Pair of tweezers
2 - Tampons (See Below)
2 - Sanitary Napkins (Chick Pads - They dig em)
1 - Roll Silk 1" Medical Tape
1 - Sam Splint
2 - Instant Cold Packs
1 - Pair of Cheap Trauma Shears
2 - Space Blanket
1 - Box of Large Nitrile Gloves placed in 1 gallon ziplock baggie (as many as you can fit)
1 - Blood Glucose Meeter with disposable lancets
1 - Tube of oral Glucose or non-melting candy bar
1 - Regular plain jane digital thermometer with disposable sleeves
1 - Bottle of Hand Sanitizer

The Following OTC Meds in either the original bottle or a multi pill organizer clearly marked as to the name, dose, standard dosing regimen, and exp date.

Tylenol
Ibuprofen
Aspirin
Benadryl
Pseudoephedrine
Guaifenesin

Children's Liquid Tylenol
Children's Liquid Benadryl






That should cover anything that you need in a car type scenario. Some of those things wont seem like necessary items until you need them. Anyone else see any changes they need to make to this list feel free to add/subtract.

PS-I just think its cool to get to give Todd advice for once lol.

[NinjaMedic]

If there is one thing you dont want to be without its gloves. Keep at least 10 pair of size large non-latex gloves in a ziplock baggie in the console of every vehicle you own. Being out of gloves when someone needs help is just as bad as being out of bullets when someone needs shooting.

[ToddG]

TacMedic -- Generally (edited to add: I meant genuinely not generally!) appreciate that. I'm hoping there's a turnkey solution rather than having to source and build the kit myself.

But quite a few of the things you listed, I'd have never thought of.

[citizensoldier16]

TacMedic came up with a pretty comprehensive list....oddly enough, naming most, if not all the items in my personal kit.

A couple of additions though:

A good flashlight - you never know when you'll need one. Chances are, you'll be carrying one in your vehicle or on your person, but if not, definitely put one in the kit. I carry a yellow Surefire G2 in my bag in the outside chance that it's dark and I need to treat someone but left my maglite in the truck. Why yellow? If I drop it then it's easy to spot.

A couple occlusive dressings - great for patching the holes you didn't wake up with that morning. These can be the commercially available types such as the Ascherman Chest Seal, or you can improvise with a petroleum jelly dressing.

Tongue depressors - literally. You'll find a hundred uses for them. I've used them for applying topical ointments, splinting broken/sprained fingers, and of course to depress tongues.

BP cuff and stethoscope - obviously for checking BPs. The cuff can be used as a tournaquet as well, and the scope can clue you in to breath sounds or the absense thereof.

[Irish]

If I skimmed over it in the list I didn't mean to but I would definitely throw in a small stuffed animal. Whether you're treating a child or the adult/parent it will definitely help relax the kid by focusing their attention in either situation. Maybe a sucker too??? What kid doesn't like a lollipop and a teddy bear?

[rob_s]

I'm in the same boat as Todd. With a smaller IFAK I'm willing to buy each piece individually to get what I want, but I'd really like to have a single "click here to buy now" type big kit that I can add a few extras to if needed.

[FMF_Doc]

Todd:

my "full" kit weighs about 37 lbs, but I have a lot of advanced airway tools, suture/minor surg kit, IV stuff, and other things that most normal people will never get trained to use. Basically an ER in a bag.

As far as off the shelf kits, look at some of the stuff at Galls and some of the wilderness and EMS suppliers. You want a good BLS kit, and then add the OTC meds extra gloves, and any thing you think you need.

This one should get you started: http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=fireauthority&style=TK085&cat=4536

Also since you work around firearms here is a good GSW kit, just need to add a TK to it.
Gall's GSW kit (http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=TK068)

[RESQDOC]

Add in a few pair of playtex type dish gloves. Get one size larger than you normally use so you can get them on over blood & sweat. Not great on the dexterity front but fine for holding pressure on bleeders, etc., broken glass/sharp metal/chemical resistant versus medical gloves, uber cheap and reusable.

The Galls' kit FMF noted above is good value for the money, for a pre-made kit. Makes a great kit for clubs to have at the range (nudge-nudge).

[ToddG]

So at least looking at it on their website, the Galls kit I referenced has the exact same contents as the one FMF did, but in a smaller overall package. I'm guessing the larger bag is just more easily organized and/or allows for adding more of the 'missing' stuff?

[PA PATRIOT]

Todd:

my "full" kit weighs about 37 lbs, but I have a lot of advanced airway tools, suture/minor surg kit, IV stuff, and other things that most normal people will never get trained to use. Basically an ER in a bag.

As far as off the shelf kits, look at some of the stuff at Galls and some of the wilderness and EMS suppliers. You want a good BLS kit, and then add the OTC meds extra gloves, and any thing you think you need.

This one should get you started: http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=fireauthority&style=TK085&cat=4536

Also since you work around firearms here is a good GSW kit, just need to add a TK to it.
Gall's GSW kit (http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=TK068)

What do you think of this GSW kit from GAL's using the Combat Gauze in place of Quick Clot.

Dyna Med® MOLLE Pouch Gunshot Trauma Kit with QuikClot® Combat Gauze™
http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=TK099

Thanks
Phila PD

[rob_s]

So at least looking at it on their website, the Galls kit I referenced has the exact same contents as the one FMF did, but in a smaller overall package. I'm guessing the larger bag is just more easily organized and/or allows for adding more of the 'missing' stuff?

Todd, I pasted the lists into a spreadsheet and got a 1:1 identical contents, with the one bag being approx. 1" bigger in each direction and costing $10 more.

[believeraz]

What do you think of this GSW kit from GAL's using the Combat Gauze in place of Quick Clot.

Dyna Med® MOLLE Pouch Gunshot Trauma Kit with QuikClot® Combat Gauze™
http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=TK099

Thanks
Phila PD

Phila,

I'd prefer to have and use Combat Gauze over Quick Clot. It has a higher efficacy rating, and condenses two steps to one (hemostatic agent and wound packing).

B

TLG-

The kit discussed sounds like it's just what you'd want on hand. I'd be happy to get with you one on one if we're in the same AO in the near future and walk you through all of it and how to use it.

BP

[rob_s]

OK, because I'm a nerd, I put all the DynaMed packs from Galls site into a spreadsheet (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=t8rNWvAHS6ScrLg0n7iyNSg&single=true&gid=0&output=html).

:cool:

[ToddG]

Good Lord, he actually made The Chart for trauma kits ... :cool:

[NinjaMedic]

I agree with a flashlight but I wouldnt get an expensive one, how often are you really in this kit? A few glowsticks might be more appropriate especially considering that im sure Todd has an EDC light. If you want to add a Stethescope/BP Cuff to the list thats cool. Just know how to use them and dont give BS numbers if you have a hard time getting the BP or difficulty distinguishing ronchi from rales. The only reason I didnt throw them in is it doesnt seem to me like he would be basing many treatment decisions on his findings with them. If he finds someone with a crappy BP, or even a high BP, where his car is accesible he will probably call an ambulance. He isnt going to be basing the decision on wether or not to needle decompress someone on their lung sounds he is going to place a gloved hand on the chest wound. An ascherman chest seal is a good option although I was assuming he would keep those and his Izzy dressings etc. in a more GSW specific type kit. Tourniquets are only a necessity in this kit as it is intended for car storage and there is a high risk of amputation or near amputation in Rural highway MVC's changing tires etc where people get struck between two vehicles. Great catch on the toungue depressors, where would we be without them lol. You can mcguyver some crazy stuff with tounge depressors. Maybe if there was a bunch of people were interested we could do a group buy type setup and get a little better kit put together for around the same money.

[FMF_Doc]

I'd get the S.T.O.M.P. II bag to put it all in, but the bag is $200 w/no contents.




What do you think of this GSW kit from GAL's using the Combat Gauze in place of Quick Clot.

Dyna Med® MOLLE Pouch Gunshot Trauma Kit with QuikClot® Combat Gauze™
http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=TK099

Thanks
Phila PD


I haven't ever used the Combat Gauze, but I'd look for reviews of it. I have used Quick Clot and know that it works. The kit looks like it will absolutely serve your purposes.

[ToddG]

For the record, I will not be doing a needle decompression on anyone. Not within the scope of my training.

[ST911]

I generally abhor prepackaged kits like the Galls offerings. They tend to include the cheapest components, the wrong ones, the wrong proportions of them, of just stuff that doesn't suit my taste. Haven't bought one in years.

Looking at the Galls kit, I think you're paying too much for too little.

For a basic kit that can always be with you, look at starting with a TT First Responder Bag, add a BOK of some sort to it, then stock around it with support gear like on the list(s) above. There's not enough room for a BVM, but the necessity and utility of one for a bystander is limited.

You'll save money and have better stuff buying your own. Go in with a partner and buy by the case for best savings.

[believeraz]

Tourniquets are only a necessity in this kit as it is intended for car storage and there is a high risk of amputation or near amputation in Rural highway MVC's changing tires etc where people get struck between two vehicles.

Not sharpshooting you, and I recognize that you're speaking about GSW stuff in a separate blowout kit, but I wouldn't be so dismissive of TQ usage. Heck, even National Registry is putting them in a new light these days.

As far as a light to keep, chemlights are handy, but I'm a big fan of a headlamp. It lets you work in reduced light, hands free, and the light follows where you look.

[NinjaMedic]

Perhaps I misstated what I was attempting to say. Let me assure everyone that I am in no way dismissive of tourniquets and think that every person in public safety should have at least one on them at all times. My point was more of while he already carries this item, here is the reason that it requires duplication in a 2nd medical kit. If someone is bleeding severely I start at a tourniquet and then work my way back down towards gauze and such.

[Arclight]

For what it's worth, I'd agree with your first choice from Galls. I used to carry almost that same kit on the ambulance and similar jobs. If it carries what you're trained to use, that's what you need.

I think you're on the money with this mindset: Don't carry stuff you're not trained/allowed to use, but don't put yourself in a position to be without something you *are* trained to use in the event you might need it.

I started with a bag like that, a smaller "frequently used items" kit, and a "oh $#!%" kit for my range bag (gloves, SWAT-T, gauze, kling, band-aids). Over time you may add things: I'm a firm believer in a headlamp and penlight with any medical kit, as well as a glow stick, so make sure there's a little room to grow.

And whatever you do, always have gloves. "Being out of gloves when someone needs help is just as bad as being out of bullets when someone needs shooting" is one of the best phrases I've heard in a long time.

[TacMedic556]

I very well may have overlooked it. Did anyone mention a couple of 10ga needles with catheters including one way valves from a pet store aquarium section? These work great for a tension pneumo. 14 ga will work in a pinch. Also, you can always resort to a latex glove finger tip as well on the end of the catheter, after the needle has been punched through and withdrawn, to prevent air from rushing back into the pleural space. Remember, 2nd or 3rd intercostal space, mid-clavicular, top of the rib, bevel down.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/normal/p-33949-44409-fish-supply.jpg

These are sort of similar to the ones we carry on our medic units.

http://www.petworldshop.com/pictures/aquarium-check-valve.jpg

OF COURSE BE CERTIFIED, TRAINED AND NEVER TRY THIS AT HOME.

[NinjaMedic]

The current research says that a 14g 3.25" catheter without a valve is the most effective.

[dhrith]

Didn't really see this addressed in the other "kit" threads.

Let's suppose I'm willing to spend the money on a fairly comprehensive kit to keep in the trunk in the event that I, with my tremendous 52 hours of training, am forced to singlehandedly respond to the apocalypse. I do not need anything that involves putting additional holes in people, as I've got no training to do so.

I was looking at something like this bag from Galls (http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=TK084) which quite literally seems to cover every single thing I was trained to do.

It's understood that the odds are I'll never use 95% of the stuff in the bag, but it seems like cheap insurance rather than finding myself in a situation where I need something and don't have it.

Biggest reason I can advocate to someone who can afford the big kit to buy it is not necessarily that you may know how to use every item inside. But a good example would be the power outage a few years back. I have access to plenty of local doctors and nurses, but the chances of any of the knuckleheads actually having gear with them is slim to none outside of their familiar hospital environment. I can get to them and put the stuff in their hands to do what needs to be done beyond what my knowledge covers. So i sure as hell may not know how to use sutures and scalpels but I know people within a half mile who do. Same situation in vehicular accidents on the highway, been in several where nurses come up to offer help without a damn thing in their hands. Do however be very cognizant of your own skill/equipment limitations though.



Holy thread resurrection batman, I just went back to check the original thread date. rofl

[UsnRoberts]

1 - BVM
2 - Rolls Kerlix (4")
1 - 4"-8" thick handful of non-sterile gauze in ziplock baggie
1 - Trauma Dressing (the huge gauze pads like 20" by 15"
1 - 4" Ace bandage
2 - Tourniquets
2 - Triangular Bandages
1 - OB KIT (http://www.buyemp.com/product/1112101.html)
1 - Baby Beanie (http://www.buyemp.com/product/1112203.html)
1 - 500mL bottle NS or Sterile Water
1 - Biggest Damn box of different types of Band-Aids that you can find (including at least some kid friendly animal or cartoon print)
1 - Tube of Neosporin Triple Antibiotic
1 - Container of Bug Spray just the standard 5000% DEET is sufficient
1 - Bottle of spray type topical Benadryl
1 - Bottle of very high SPH sunbock
1 - Pair of tweezers
2 - Tampons (See Below)
2 - Sanitary Napkins (Chick Pads - They dig em)
1 - Roll Silk 1" Medical Tape
1 - Sam Splint
2 - Instant Cold Packs
1 - Pair of Cheap Trauma Shears
2 - Space Blanket
1 - Box of Large Nitrile Gloves placed in 1 gallon ziplock baggie (as many as you can fit)
1 - Blood Glucose Meeter with disposable lancets
1 - Tube of oral Glucose or non-melting candy bar
1 - Regular plain jane digital thermometer with disposable sleeves
1 - Bottle of Hand Sanitizer

The Following OTC Meds in either the original bottle or a multi pill organizer clearly marked as to the name, dose, standard dosing regimen, and exp date.

Tylenol
Ibuprofen
Aspirin
Benadryl
Pseudoephedrine
Guaifenesin

Children's Liquid Tylenol
Children's Liquid Benadryl






That should cover anything that you need in a car type scenario. Some of those things wont seem like necessary items until you need them. Anyone else see any changes they need to make to this list feel free to add/subtract.

PS-I just think its cool to get to give Todd advice for once lol.

Good info thank you!

[peepee]

The current research says that a 14g 3.25" catheter without a valve is the most effective.

Correct. You can perform mutiple needle drills as well if needed so I wouldnt get too caught up in finding a "10G cath". In the end, the individual is getting a chest tube as a needle D just buys you time.

Also, the 2nd and 3rd ICS is ideal but dont be afraid to go to another location, keeping in mind where the heart is:D. The bottom line is air needs to be evacuated from the chest and so on.

[ucrt]

Just curious, all of the equipment and gear that has been listed, can it stay in a car day in and day out in the summer (or winter) without going bad?

We measured the temperature in two guys trucks last month, they are indentical except one is white and one is black. 140 degrees in the white one and 158 degrees in the black one.

Ba ashame to "think" you have kit but when you need it it is spoiled.

.

[sniperbusch@hotmail.com]

ucrt made a valid point that I have been concerned with. If I was a Paramedic or EMT, I would be inclined to transport a comprehensive kit of my profession. For me, space and protected storage within a vehicle is a consideration and I do not like the thought of kicking around an expensive kit exposed to wide environmental conditions. Most of the contents I would probably not use away from home in a prepacked kit. My objective is to have some ability to render appropriate treatment until the arrival of a Paramedic Unit. If money was not an issue, then I would also be inclined to have the best kit that I would routinely rotate or replace.

[The Doc]

Just some food for thought. If you are a current NREMT card carrier, and you happen to stop at a MVA, ect, keep in mind that you are NOT allowed to do anything more that BLS, unless you call into work and ask to be put on the clock. For you military types (as I am) you cannot work on a PT outside of the gates unless that person is in fact military (not dependant) active duty. But, if you are none of the above, you can do anything you want to a person in need, as long as you felt it was justified. You will be covered under the "Good Samaritan" act...

[Ferris2son]

Biggest reason I can advocate to someone who can afford the big kit to buy it is not necessarily that you may know how to use every item inside. But a good example would be the power outage a few years back. I have access to plenty of local doctors and nurses, but the chances of any of the knuckleheads actually having gear with them is slim to none outside of their familiar hospital environment. I can get to them and put the stuff in their hands to do what needs to be done beyond what my knowledge covers. So i sure as hell may not know how to use sutures and scalpels but I know people within a half mile who do. Same situation in vehicular accidents on the highway, been in several where nurses come up to offer help without a damn thing in their hands. Do however be very cognizant of your own skill/equipment limitations though.



Holy thread resurrection batman, I just went back to check the original thread date. rofl

Thread resurrection indeed.
My thinking is the same. Have the gear. You never know when someone needs an airway and there's a nurse standing there.

http://www.redflarekits.com/first-aid-kits/4018

Ive added a suture kit and additional beeding supplies.

[GTF425]

The current research says that a 14g 3.25" catheter without a valve is the most effective.

We carry 14g's in our IFAK's for tension pneumothorax. I've only seen them used once, and all I have to say is God bless medics and all they do.

[NinjaMedic]

Thread resurrection indeed.
My thinking is the same. Have the gear. You never know when someone needs an airway and there's a nurse standing there.

http://www.redflarekits.com/first-aid-kits/4018

Ive added a suture kit and additional beeding supplies.

To be fair the kit will be more useful than the nurse most likely . . .

[Ferris2son]

To be fair the kit will be more useful than the nurse most likely . . .

Yea, I know what you mean. My girlfriend is a nurse tho. She works a burn unit ICU and is pretty capable.

Besides, YOU might be standing there...;)

[blake g]

TacMedic came up with a pretty comprehensive list....oddly enough, naming most, if not all the items in my personal kit.

A couple of additions though:

A good flashlight - you never know when you'll need one. Chances are, you'll be carrying one in your vehicle or on your person, but if not, definitely put one in the kit. I carry a yellow Surefire G2 in my bag in the outside chance that it's dark and I need to treat someone but left my maglite in the truck. Why yellow? If I drop it then it's easy to spot.




cough HEADLAMP cough

[blackcpull]

Hello,

Thanks everyone for posting all the great info. Here is my situation. I am looking to purchase or build a kit for a grid down type scenario for 12 or more people. Does anyone have any suggestions? I am not sure where to buy it from, Galls or Redflarekits, etc. Any help or items to have would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

[TacMedic556]

Quick Clot, -gauze and powder. Also look at the quick clot silver for it's antimicrobial quality. My heavy Kit stays in the armored vehicle.

I break my kit down into the 3 basic groups:
I do not carry all of this...

A-Airway: OPAs, NPAs, ET Tubes or King Airways, Combitubes are ok. Suction device, BVM, (I even have a small O2 cylinder). Tube securing device.

B-Breathing- as mentioned above equipment. Also, Needle decompression kit, large pad to stabilize flail (abdominal dressing works). NC and NRB mask.

C-Circulation STOP THE BLEEDING! Quick clot, gauze, Kerlix, more gauze, 4x4s and 5x9s, Abdominal pad, sterile saline solution for wound cleaning. Tourniquet. I do carry IV supplies, however we all know the new studies show fluid should only be given in minimal 250 cc bolus to maintain a pressure of 90-100 systolic. All associated IV supplies.

various medications, oral glucose, D50, tylenol, ASA, NTG, Epi 1:1000
and then the Disability and Illness - Fentanyl, Morphine, Versed, Valium, (medical director allowed).

Assessment tools such as BP cuff, stethoscope, glucometer. We always have a medic unit on the perimeter so most of this is for a SHTF scenario or rural deployment. Perhaps even a scene that is too hot to evac a guy etc.

Having a kit for 12 people is hard to plan for. One or two good traumas can seriously deplete your supplies and resources. I cannot carry enough for that many. I have enough for multiple minor wounds and maybe 2 or 3 max serious traumas.

[blackcpull]

Tacmedic thanks, I really appreciate your help. Any suggestions on where to buy a high quality kit. Or should I try to find someone knowledgeable to build the kit? Money is no object.

Respectfully,

Blackcpull

[TacMedic556]

I build my own kit from the Fire Department at work. I really can't say where you would want to get a kit. I just gather all the stuff I need, when I need it. Buying a whole kit usually appears to suck, due to low quality and generic items within it, as well as useless fill items to make it look "raz". Just buy what you need and get a good pack to organize it in. I would be happy to help you build the kit. Just go online and look at some of the ambulance supply stores and order away. whip out your plastic. You won't be able to get IV items or syringes and catheters without being a licensed provider. You can get quick clot anywhere. If you know any flight medics or nurses ask to get a "stapler".

[DragonDoc]

OK, because I'm a nerd, I put all the DynaMed packs from Galls site into a spreadsheet (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=t8rNWvAHS6ScrLg0n7iyNSg&single=true&gid=0&output=html).

:cool:

Make sure you put Kerlix on the left side of the "chart". Roller gauze goes on the right side along with paper medical tape. :laugh:

[usmcvet]

Great info guys thanks. Just my opinion but run away from Galls. They are overpriced, over charge you for shipping and often sell junk.