Heads Up:Colt 6920 & Tac Sol M4 Uppers

[johnnywitt]

I Just got done today shooting about 250-300 pretty much flawless rounds of Federal Classic 40gr RN & Winchester Dynapoints through my M4 upper. This was only after I installed my new Geissele SSA Trigger. I found out the hard way that Colt 6920's with stock FCG will NOT work with the Tac Sol Uppers because the hammers have the hook. I have 2 bone stock 6920's and both would not run AT ALL. In fact, you have to take your gun apart to clear the malfunctions that this causes.
The good news is that Lon at TS called me back even after his normal working hours and was going to give me a tag for return. After I described the malfunction and the hammer he said that was the problem. I then installed the SSA trigger and started popping away with my new unit using the aforementioned ammo. Blazers totally malf'ed my AR 22 as did the Wildcats although not nearly as bad as the Blazers (funny thing is my TS Pac Lite hates Blazers as well). The unit is really accurate for tin can work and spinners out at 25+ yards. I'll bench it later when I run some more types of ammo through it. So far, I like the Dynapoints because I can shoot suppressed with them.
The handguards on the AR22 aren't fat like the Double Sheilded 6920 Guards. They also say in the cataloge that they use A1 birdcage FH so that you don't need the crush washer and you can use it as a thread protector. Alas, mine came with the A2 FH with crush washer (they ran out of A1 FH according to Lon). So, I need to find a Colt A1 FH somewhere so I can use a suppressor on my upper while using these Dynapoints. Anybody have one to sell me. I'll have more info as I shoot it somemore next week when I get back.
This is a very well made unit and I really like it alot. Once you get one in your hands it will be all of a sudden dark outside and you'll wonder where all the time went while you were busy having so much fun. Oh, and Christies makes a loader for the AR22 BDM. The loader lets you load the mag effortlessly to full capacity. I recommend them for saving you from the dreaded mag-thumb. Hope this helps.

[austinN4]

.....Christies makes a loader for the BDM. The loder lets you load the mag right to capacity. I recomend them.
Please provide link to loader. Thanks!

[johnnywitt]

Here you go:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=27413/Product/CHRISTIE___CHRISTIE_MAGAZINE_LOADER

Anybody got an extra Colt A1 FH to sell??? Por Favor!

[rob_s]

Jyhnny, I'd hit the gunshows. We have a guy at our local shows that has a whole tone of used surplus parts, and flash hiders are one of the things he has lots of, typically. Might even have some un-notched hammers as well...

[johnnywitt]

Jyhnny, I'd hit the gunshows. We have a guy at our local shows that has a whole tone of used surplus parts, and flash hiders are one of the things he has lots of, typically. Might even have some un-notched hammers as well...

Rob, I live way out in the country, so its real hard to get to any gunshows. I guess I'll find one on Sturm, or somewhere.
At least I know what a "hooked" hammer looks like now vs. a non hooked one like the Geissele.
Did Colt just start making the hooked hammer when they switched to the .154 'small pin" FCG's on the newer 6920's?

I plan on putting a set of DD Omega rails on my TS Upper so that I can plug in my Q/D sling and also so the upper will feel just like my Colt Upper. I figure the whole point of this is to have a RF Upper set up just like your CF Upper. I fear this is going to be kind of spendy, but what the hell.

[Pk14]

I finally had a chance to try out my new TacSol M4 upper last Friday afternoon - I'll add more to my write up on a separate thread (and update Rob_S's thread as well once I have more rounds down range). Needless to say, I found out the hard way about trying the upper with a notched hammer. Loaded up a new BDM with 20 rounds of Fed bulk pack, sighted in initially to get a zero on irons, pressed the trigger and was rewarded with a 3 round burst and the bolt carrier being jammed back into the receiver extension (yes, I had a buffer and spring in place). I could not get the upper off the lower. Into the rifle case and a quick drive over to Robb at Virginia Arms to help unscrew my mistake. (He had to break the staking on the castle nut and get the RE backed out before the bolt carrier came out.) That's where a look at a few examples of hammers and chin rubbing brought out the "Ah-Ha!" moment. Can't thank Robb enough for the help!

Emphasizing a very important warning for the benefit of those contemplating the TacSol upper - you need an un-nothced hammer for it to run.

Just to clarify, the "hooked" hammer term in the OP refers to the top front face of the hammer, not the tail section. Here is a pretty clean example of the difference:

Un-notched (Type 1 Semi-Auto Hammer)
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/Pk14_photos/SAUnnotchedAR-15Hammer.jpg

Notched (Type II Semi-Auto Hammer)
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/Pk14_photos/SAUnnotchedAR-15HammerTypeII.jpg

Fortunately, I have another lower with an unnotched hammer so I don't need to hunt for a replacement. A quick call to Grant Friday confirmed he did not have any, and Stag doesn't currently offer them either (oddly enough, my Stag LPK from Grant did include a Type I hammer last year). I did find Colt hammers at Specialized Armament and BCM may have DPMS hammers without a notch (currently out of stock however, you may want to call to clarify if their hammer is un-notched variety).

My TacSol upper also came with an A2 flashhider (built in the last month) as an FYI.

Cheers,
Pk

[johnnywitt]

Hey, thanks for the pic. I was confusing the hooked tail of the hammer and not the actual notch.
I just took a non marring punch and jewelers hammer and punched out the rear pin on my gun when it malf'd. I did this twice before I figured out that this unit was not gonna work as is with my lower. Then I talked to Lon and he straightened me out.
I wonder, do the Spikes units have this issue?

Put another 200-250 rounds of more different kinds of bulk ammo with only one hiccup. Winchester Xpert ran good with 1 bad round (priming). Good solid FP hit though on the case rim.
Still trying to get a feel for the whole 2 stage reset thing on the Geissele SSA FCG. I've never had to think about releasing a trigger before and then re-pulling. Its hard for me to shoot fast. I'm going to pull the trigger & reinstall it tomorrow just for shits and grins. The trigger breaks real clean but a lot heavier than I anticipated. In fact, not a whole lot lighter than the factory trigger. It is a super crisp break however. Also, I imagine that after another 500 or so rounds it will get a little lighter maybe. It seemed a little better today. These upper are a lot of fun. My Wife didn't want to give it back. She just kept asking me for another mag.:D

[TonyM]

When I received my new Tac-Sol upper I put it on a new LMT lower and had a 25% FF rate, I put the upper on a well used RR lower and it runs almost flawless as long as the bolt is clean. I just checked and both have the un-notched hammer. Not sure what the issue was but, I am a lot happier now that it runs.

[johnnywitt]

When I received my new Tac-Sol upper I put it on a new LMT lower and had a 25% FF rate, I put the upper on a well used RR lower and it runs almost flawless as long as the bolt is clean. I just checked and both have the un-notched hammer. Not sure what the issue was but, I am a lot happier now that it runs.

Tony, its my understanding that TS increased the length on their firing pins because they were getting FF. Maybe this was what your issue was on that particular lower. I know that TS will send you a free new style FP if you ask. My upper gives real hard hits on all ammo case rims that I've tried. More so than a lot of my other RF guns. Also, sometimes the FP channel in the bolt gets gunked up on semi auto .22's, as I'm sure your aware. The TS bolt is easy to strip and clean. The carrier, however,is a bitch to reassemble and the little e-clip flew off mine and I had to recover it with a big magnet. It took about an hour to find the e-clip and to reassemble the carrier. After looking at the carrier, I can't really see any reason to take it apart to clean it though. I've found that if I run this unit almost dry with just a little Eezox it runs pretty clean and is as reliable as any semi .22 that I've ever seen. Every once in a while I take a .25 cal brush thats bent to the OAL of the cartridge and clean the chamber so that I don't get any OOB malf's. I've had 2 so far with CCI Blazers. I've run Winchester Wildcats, Dynapoints, Federal 510's and Winchester X-perts with nary a hitch. But both times I used CCI Blazers (which is damn good ammo IMO) I've had FTFeeds and the OOB's. One OOB blew the whole back 3rd of the case off and I had to get a dental pick to get the remainder of the case out and pick pieces of case out of my receiver. The only time I've ever seen a OOB that bad was in my FA .22 UZI if I don't clean the chamber after about 750rds. These TS Uppers are an A+ unit in my opinion.

[TonyM]

JW, thanks for the reply. I have had several OOBs but, only with the LMT lower. I'm not sure what the issue is but the TS upper does not like my LMT lower. I ordered the upper at SHOT and just received it about 2 months ago so the firing pin should be the newer type. I have always run it on the dry side with just a drop of sewing machine oil on the bolt forks. It runs well until it gets dirty. I just tried MD Labs XF7 lube on it and so far is doing well. I only have about 100 rnds with that lube. I clean the chamber routinely. Overall I am satisfied with the TS but, it has had some growing pains.

[johnnywitt]

JW, thanks for the reply. I have had several OOBs but, only with the LMT lower. I'm not sure what the issue is but the TS upper does not like my LMT lower. I ordered the upper at SHOT and just received it about 2 months ago so the firing pin should be the newer type. I have always run it on the dry side with just a drop of sewing machine oil on the bolt forks. It runs well until it gets dirty. I just tried MD Labs XF7 lube on it and so far is doing well. I only have about 100 rnds with that lube. I clean the chamber routinely. Overall I am satisfied with the TS but, it has had some growing pains.

I wonder why it won't run on that LMT lower???:confused:. Maybe somebody else has an idea. I would at least call Lon, or better yet, if you can get ahold of either of them, Tom or Keith.
I plan on putting in another session today with the AR if I can get my mag innards to dry out. I soaked them in hot soapy water like I do with my BDM .22 UZI Mags and found out the hard way that the chambers on the AR Mags will fill up with water thats real hard to get out. Next time I will just sluice them through the water and use a bottle brush to knock the crude out. I wish that BDM would just make the dead space on the side of their AR mags solid so that you could just throw them in the the warm soapy water like the UZI Mags and be done with it. This would also make the mag heavier to simulate a centerfire mag when its loaded.
I want to say that I like BDM's CS and the quality of their product. I've been using the UZI Mags since they came out with good success and anytime they upgrade the mag they give you the parts for free. I once shot a mag part across my workshop and they sent me a replacement part for free when I was unable to find it. Can't beat BDM for a company.:)

[RealFastV6]

Getting an M16 hammer and grinding \ cutting the auto sear engagement trip lever off the back of it might be the easiest way to ensure you get a non-notched semi-auto hammer.

FWIW.

[TonyM]

JW, not sure why the Tac-Sol does not like the LMT but, it does not. I have one more lower that I will try out to see if it will run. Tell me a little more about the BDM mags for the UZI. I have been looking for some but hate to drop coin on something that don't work.

[johnnywitt]

JW, not sure why the Tac-Sol does not like the LMT but, it does not. I have one more lower that I will try out to see if it will run. Tell me a little more about the BDM mags for the UZI. I have been looking for some but hate to drop coin on something that don't work.

The BDM Uzi mags work perfect. No trouble at all since they modified the followers from the so called bolt hold open followers. Don't soak them in really hot water because you will be re glueing them. Warm soapy water is good. You can really let them soak unlike the BDM AR Mags. The AR Mags have the space filling chambers that will fill up with water:eek: A real PIA!
Antbody know where to find a long slender bottle brush to fit the channel of the .22 mags???

[Beck 27]

The BDM Uzi mags work perfect. No trouble at all since they modified the followers from the so called bolt hold open followers. Don't soak them in really hot water because you will be re glueing them. Warm soapy water is good. You can really let them soak unlike the BDM AR Mags. The AR Mags have the space filling chambers that will fill up with water:eek: A real PIA!
Antbody know where to find a long slender bottle brush to fit the channel of the .22 mags???

http://www.solobrushes.com/WebCatg2.asp?Cat2ID=6&Cat1ID=4

$30.00 min order. :eek:

[johnnywitt]

http://www.solobrushes.com/WebCatg2.asp?Cat2ID=6&Cat1ID=4

$30.00 min order. :eek:

Thanks. It might be worth it if you ordered a lifetime supply. These .22 mags get dirty pretty quick.

[TonyM]

I thought about a Camelbak tube brush.

[Stan9106]

Is this notched hammer issue exclusive to the Tacsol upper, or does the Spike's 22lr have the same problem?

[Beck 27]

Is this notched hammer issue exclusive to the Tacsol upper, or does the Spike's 22lr have the same problem?

Possible the Spikes .22 can have the same problem. Something about the hammer not reseting properly. Notice the newer RRA 2 stage trigget hammers are no longer notched.