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167
07-17-09, 19:09
I am wondering in what order would .38 special loads be ranked for a snubnose revolver? The reason I ask is because I have a particular snubnose that shoots the recommended loads either a few inches high, or a couple inches low. I was going to try some other loads to see if there was something that might hit closer to POA but I am not sure how the loads rank after the 135gr +p Gold Dot or 110gr +P DPX. I don't really want to waste my time or $$ on horrible loads. I will settle for something that might be off a few inches before I will settle for something that is absolutely horrible. Thanks.

DocGKR
07-17-09, 19:13
Grind the front sight...

tpd223
07-20-09, 14:33
A few inches at what distance? If I had a J frame shooting a few inches off from the bench at the 25 I wouldn't touch it.

167
07-20-09, 20:40
7 yards

WS6
07-29-09, 20:49
7 yards

EDITUNDO

167
07-30-09, 19:15
I have wondered that myself. I have had a few other people shoot the gun as well and they get similar results, but I am still not convinced it isn't me. Perhaps more testing is in order.

WS6
07-30-09, 19:48
I have wondered that myself. I have had a few other people shoot the gun as well and they get similar results, but I am still not convinced it isn't me. Perhaps more testing is in order.

errr, sorry. This is my fault for not reading the OP. This is normal. A revolver will print heavier loads higher, and lighter loads lower. This is the nature of the beast. I thought that you were getting GROUPS of several inches at 7 yards.

DarrinD
07-30-09, 19:56
I assume you have shot the .38 from a bench rest? If accurate that way, it may be the human that is high or low.

tpd223
07-31-09, 01:35
OK, I forgot to ask, what revolver? How old is it?

As an example, the older J frame S&Ws are regulated for 158gr bullets, so lighter rounds almost always shoot low.

PA PATRIOT
08-01-09, 15:55
What would be the general opinion for the best NON- Premium .38spl +P loading? My department seems to go back and forth with the Federal Classic or Remington Express 125gr Jacketed +P H/P loadings but I don't know if price or shooting results are fueling the section. I may be way off but for the past several years I have been using the IMI lead semi-wad-cutter H/P's in both 125gr & 158gr +P .38spl loads for woods use to dispatch feral dogs which range in weight from 50 to 125 pounds. Now a dog is far from being as resilient as a human but those soft IMI lead slugs seem like they could be effective for two legged defense if needed.

tpd223
08-01-09, 18:49
Your job is buying those rounds due to price.

Back in the day they were probably state of the art, but the newer designs such as the DPX and Gold Dot work better.

In gelatin tests we did at our range both of these loads didn't really expand much in the heavy clothing tests.
The Remington 125gr +P started to expand, shed the mushroom leaving it behind looking like a lead washer, which turned the bullet into basically a semi-jacketed wadcutter. The bullet then penetrated the 18" block and went about 20 yards dropping to the ground.

167
08-02-09, 19:51
It is a S&W 637, only a few months old, was bought new. I have shot it off a rest in singe action and the results are the same. It groups really tight, tighter than any other handguns I have. So unless I am somehow doing the exact same mistake the exact same way every time I don't think it is me. But who knows, I may be doing just that.

tpd223, what were you shooting that Remington round out of? Just curious.

tpd223
08-02-09, 21:48
My personal 642.

If your gun is only shooting a bit high or low I'm not sure that I'd worry about it too much.
I actually prefer my guns to shoot just above my sights, probably too many years of shooting targets where a 6 o'clock hold was a good idea.

WS6
08-02-09, 22:57
What would be the general opinion for the best NON- Premium .38spl +P loading? My department seems to go back and forth with the Federal Classic or Remington Express 125gr Jacketed +P H/P loadings but I don't know if price or shooting results are fueling the section. I may be way off but for the past several years I have been using the IMI lead semi-wad-cutter H/P's in both 125gr & 158gr +P .38spl loads for woods use to dispatch feral dogs which range in weight from 50 to 125 pounds. Now a dog is far from being as resilient as a human but those soft IMI lead slugs seem like they could be effective for two legged defense if needed.

I disagree.

Glock17JHP
08-04-09, 10:51
I don't want to make anyone defensive, but...

Don't discount the possibility of 'flinching' with the snubby, or 'pulling' the shots...

Snubbies seem to magnify these issues...

Can you give specifics? Which particular load shoots to what POA?

167
08-04-09, 19:04
158 grainers are the highest, about 5-6". the 135gr +p Gold Dot is about 3-4" high, the 130gr +p PDX1 is about the same as the Gold Dot, and the 110gr standard pressure FTX is a couple inches low. I have not had a chance to try DPX or a 158gr +p load yet because I haven't been able to get my hands on any. The 158gr loads I have shot are all just target loads, so a mix of LRN and SWC. I have shot some 130gr WWB FMJ and it shoots to about the same spot as the 135+p GD and 130+p PDX1. All of this is at about 7 yards.

I am not going to say it couldn't be a flinch, but I wouldn't think it likely. That would be very uncharacteristic, and I wouldn't think it would be so consistent. I am putting bullet holes in bullet holes pretty much, just a little high, or low. The only thing I think it may be is I am not lining up my sights properly, but I am doing it the way I would with any other gun. The front blade is in the center of the rear notch, and the top of the blade is even with the top of the notch. If I drop the top of the front sight blade down to where I can just barely see it in the bottom of the rear notch, I hit POA with the GD and PDX1. 158gr stuff is still a little high, but not near as much. That is not what I have taught to understand a proper sight picture as. But maybe it is for revovlers or something. I don't know. I am going to keep trying ammo. Like I said, I still need to try the DPX, and I would like to try a 158gr +p LSWCHP. We will see how that goes whenever I get some and depending on the results I then might modify the front sight. Or just get a different gun:) It would be a good excuse:)

tpd223
08-05-09, 03:01
It sounds as though you are doing things correctly on your end of the gun.

I'd suggest trying the DPX and the 158gr LSWCHP, and also the +P FTX and even target wadcutters.

Any of these might shoot to POA. The FTX +P might raise the POI a bit due to the extra recoil.

If none of these shoot where you want, then pick one of the rounds that hits low and shave down the front sight to raise the POI for that load.

Glock17JHP
08-05-09, 10:57
Have you tried the 148 grain 'target' wadcutter (HBWC) as far as checking your POA?

SkiDevil
08-05-09, 13:04
Grind the front sight...

After owning several S&W revolvers, I would have to agree. YOU ARE GOING TO DRIVE YOURSELF NUTS trying to find the perfect bullet that shoots to POA with a snubnose. Then factor-in the variation of ammo from lot to lot.

I personally used mine for a back-up/ ankle gun. Sighted-it in and practiced with-it regularly, with the choosen load.

I would have to agree with DocGKR. Pick-your load, then buy a case of the ammo and grind down the front sight.

SkiDevil

Glock17JHP
08-05-09, 13:42
Ummm... he's aready shooting HIGH with all but one load he gave...

Shooting high is not caused by flinching, so forget my thoughts about flinching from earlier...

Grinding the front sight is not going to be the thing to do here... grinding the front sight will make it shoot HIGHER...

167
08-05-09, 17:46
I think they meant pick a load that shoots low and then grind the front sight and forget about all the ones that shoot high.

SGT D USMC
08-11-09, 23:07
Have you thought about the new 135 gr gold dot +p for short barrels? Has anyone else tried them?

tpd223
08-11-09, 23:20
He noted in the first post that he already tried that load.

And yes, it is a well known and tested load now.

Glock17JHP
08-12-09, 10:49
Personally, I prefer the lighter recoil of the 148 grain HBWC's...