View Full Version : 1911 in .357 Sig
High Tower
07-19-09, 04:45
Hey guys,
Just curious if there are any problems associated in doing a 1911 in .357 Sig?
I'd like our smith do do a build with Caspian commander slide, with officers frame and thought I'd try a little something different. I already have about 5 1911s in
.45.
Thanks in advance for the input.
I've heard it's very hard to get running. You should just get a 9x23.
High Tower
07-19-09, 12:24
You're not the first to suggest the 9x23. Its a good round, but I just don't get aroused by it. It'll either be the sig round, or another .45 probably.
Ultimately, it will be up to the smith. And I can't talk to him until I get out of this craphole.
I've heard it's very hard to get running.
You should just get a 9x23.
how is that?
and I second that 9x23 in a 1911 platform. better round than .38Super too...
I am a fan of the 38 Super in a 1911 platform... But thats just me... YMMV...
B
High Tower
07-20-09, 14:29
Well, this will be a carry gun for the most part. The problem with the long 9's and the 38 Super is that hollowpoints are not readily available. And I'm not a fan of carrying reloads for self defense. I personally have no issues with it, but most juries, lawyers, and judges are, well, morons.
JiMfraRED1911
07-20-09, 15:18
Opt for the 9x23mm Winchester in a 1911. Anything shorter than 5" in a 1911, IMO, is not worth running.
A .357 SIG 1911? The maths isn't really adding up. A fairly short cartridge in a relatively long receiver doesn't seem like a good idea. Magazines and spring rates...I don't want to even begin to fathom.
Wasn't one of the .357 SIG design parameters to bring about .357 MAGNUM velocities in a four n' a bit inch service pistols? This just doesn't seem like a wise idea.
Well, this will be a carry gun for the most part. The problem with the long 9's and the 38 Super is that hollowpoints are not readily available. And I'm not a fan of carrying reloads for self defense. I personally have no issues with it, but most juries, lawyers, and judges are, well, morons.
CorBon
I've seen this question asked of Ned Christiansen and he doesn't want to do .357s. For a reason. They don't like to run in 1911s.
The problem with the long 9's and the 38 Super is that hollowpoints are not readily available.
Winchester loads a Factory 125 grain silvertip that gives 1240 FPS... That is an outstanding handgun round... There is something in the combination of .357 + 125 grain HP + 1240 FPS = Shamwow on the human torso...
LINK (http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/handgundetail.aspx?symbol=X38ASHP&cart=MzggU3VwZXIgQXV0b21hdGljICst)
B
Well, this will be a carry gun for the most part. The problem with the long 9's and the 38 Super is that hollowpoints are not readily available. And I'm not a fan of carrying reloads for self defense. I personally have no issues with it, but most juries, lawyers, and judges are, well, morons.
Corbon DPX:
https://www.dakotaammo.net/shop/product_info.php?products_id=270&osCsid=8b94080a9e4b40c264cac336492291d0
https://www.dakotaammo.net/shop/product_info.php?products_id=268&osCsid=cf9578e7faf560a6125d8a36eab67a8a
http://www.dakotaammo.net/images/bulletpic/DPX/38SuperAutoP125grDPX.jpg
Corbon JHP:
https://dakotaammo.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=21_35&products_id=45
https://dakotaammo.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=21_36&products_id=47
http://www.dakotaammo.net/images/bulletpic/CONVJHP/9x23WiN125grJhp.jpg
I know it can be done because Bar-Sto makes barrels for it. I would talk to a knowledgeable 1911 guy like Jason Burton or John Jardine before starting a project like that.
But the real question is why?
A 38 Super loaded with Corbon DPX is a great defensive load.
Springfield, Wilson and a few other manufactuerers have figured out how to make reliable 9mm 1911's and that opens to door to a very soft shooting platform to launch 127gr +P Gold-Dots.
Terry Tussey is one name I've seen attributed to .357 Sig, 9x23 and 9x25 1911s...
I have a Storm Lake 357 Sig barrel for my Colt Delta Elite , use the .40 S&W mags with the spacer in the back of the mag to compensate for OAL at it runs fine.
357 Sig brass is the cheapest and easiest to get in my area and I handload so using the Sig round instead of 9x23 is cheaper shooting.
I plan to load some up long and try in magazines without the spacer but I haven`t got around to it yet.
I know it can be done because Bar-Sto makes barrels for it. I would talk to a knowledgeable 1911 guy like Jason Burton or John Jardine before starting a project like that.
But the real question is why?
A 38 Super loaded with Corbon DPX is a great defensive load.
Springfield, Wilson and a few other manufactuerers have figured out how to make reliable 9mm 1911's and that opens to door to a very soft shooting platform to launch 127gr +P Gold-Dots.
Burton likes 9x23. Theres even a stack of it behind the counter in his shop. Next gun I get from him will be 9x23.
High Tower
07-21-09, 05:04
I know it can be done because Bar-Sto makes barrels for it. I would talk to a knowledgeable 1911 guy like Jason Burton or John Jardine before starting a project like that.
But the real question is why?
A 38 Super loaded with Corbon DPX is a great defensive load.
Springfield, Wilson and a few other manufactuerers have figured out how to make reliable 9mm 1911's and that opens to door to a very soft shooting platform to launch 127gr +P Gold-Dots.
Well, for starters, I'm weird about what I run. I have to be excited about a gun or caliber. For example, I bought a HK Mk23 last year. Why? I liked it and wanted it. I really didn't sit down and do comparison studies and what-not. Its the same with this project. The Sig round has been a success with agencies that use it, so its hardly an impractical round. And I like it.
But the caliber was given a thumbs down by our smith who will be building it. He doesn't want to mess with the 357 in a 1911. So it will be the tried and true .45 which is fine by me.
Another reason is that I work at a gunshop fulltime back home (I'm in Iraq now) I thought of the Sig round cause its more available and I can get it at a better price. I'm also set up with dies, etc for my Sig 239.
I've *heard* that th 9x23 has a tendency to burn barrels out faster than it's slower cousins. (357sig and 38 super.) mind you, I've never owned one so I have no practical experience just hear say and conjecture.
that being said I'm a hand loader and like to load my 357sig fast in my P226. But ultimately I shoot too much to push it fast enough that it causes premature wear on my barrel. it's my carry gun after all.
I would love to mess around with a 1911 in 9x23 just to see if I can get a 125gr bullet up to 1900fps out of a hand gun. but it would never be my carry gun. but I'd love to get one and try to shoot out the barrel.
I've *heard* that th 9x23 has a tendency to burn barrels out faster than it's slower cousins. (357sig and 38 super.) mind you, I've never owned one so I have no practical experience just hear say and conjecture.
that being said I'm a hand loader and like to load my 357sig fast in my P226. But ultimately I shoot too much to push it fast enough that it causes premature wear on my barrel. it's my carry gun after all.
I would love to mess around with a 1911 in 9x23 just to see if I can get a 125gr bullet up to 1900fps out of a hand gun. but it would never be my carry gun. but I'd love to get one and try to shoot out the barrel.
You'd probably be better off with a 9x25mm Dillon.....10mm Auto necked down.....
Ned Christiansen
07-23-09, 00:15
Actually I'm working on a Commander-length gun in .357 SIG right now. I've heard too that the caliber does not run well in a 1911 but I've sure-'nuff seen tons of 1911's in .45 that didn't run either. I'm not going to stick my neck out and say it will absolutely run, but on the other hand it seems like it maybe ought to, and Pat Sweeney reminded me yesterday he's had one for years, made from a Delta Elite, that runs.
In the next month or so I ought to have first hand, personal knowledge. If it runs, I'll let y'all know. If not....... there may be nothing but static on this channel.....:eek:
High Tower
07-23-09, 02:09
Actually I'm working on a Commander-length gun in .357 SIG right now. I've heard too that the caliber does not run well in a 1911 but I've sure-'nuff seen tons of 1911's in .45 that didn't run either. I'm not going to stick my neck out and say it will absolutely run, but on the other hand it seems like it maybe ought to, and Pat Sweeney reminded me yesterday he's had one for years, made from a Delta Elite, that runs.
In the next month or so I ought to have first hand, personal knowledge. If it runs, I'll let y'all know. If not....... there may be nothing but static on this channel.....:eek:
Great news! This one is my "Welcome home from Iraq" gun. I'd like it to be done before or shortly after I get home, so for this one I'm going .45 because I know for sure our smith can do a .45.
I have a feeling this will not be my last, though. So if yours is up and running, the 357 is back on the list.
High Tower
07-23-09, 02:18
Here are the specs I requested for the commander:
- Stainless Caspian Commander slide. No rear sight cuts. No serrations.
- Briley frame. Its forged instead of cast. I need a forged one for my serration plans.
- Novak sights. 2 dot rear. Tritium from with white outline.
- Ed Brown left side only safety.
- Long, solid Nighthawk trigger.
- Vickers hammer/sear/disconnector kit. The one with the slotted hammer, not the classical.
- Ed Brown memory groove beavertail grip safety.
- Ed Brown stainless hex grip screws.
- Bobtail.
- Recessed slide stop. Wilson, Nighthawk, Brown - any good one that is recessed.
- Barrel - and quality commander barrel. Nighthawk, Wilson, Brown etc.
- No light rail.
- Good internals like Wilson, Wolff, etc.
- Good one piece guide rod. Not sure if I want full length or not.
Then I'll send it to Gemini Customs for a full Dragonskin treatment and a dehorning.
I'm hoping Robar can do Roguard for the safety, beavertail, bushing, slide stop, mag release, and trigger. And NP3 everything else.
I'm thinking Esmerelda grips for this one.
What do you guys think?
Actually I'm working on a Commander-length gun in .357 SIG right now. I've heard too that the caliber does not run well in a 1911 but I've sure-'nuff seen tons of 1911's in .45 that didn't run either. I'm not going to stick my neck out and say it will absolutely run, but on the other hand it seems like it maybe ought to, and Pat Sweeney reminded me yesterday he's had one for years, made from a Delta Elite, that runs.
In the next month or so I ought to have first hand, personal knowledge. If it runs, I'll let y'all know. If not....... there may be nothing but static on this channel.....:eek:
I must have misunderstood. My bad. :confused:
You'd probably be better off with a 9x25mm Dillon.....10mm Auto necked down.....
hrm... if I can find some decent reloading data for that you could be on to something.
is there a 10mm M&P coming out? :cool:
I know it can be done because Bar-Sto makes barrels for it. I would talk to a knowledgeable 1911 guy like Jason Burton or John Jardine before starting a project like that.
But the real question is why?
A 38 Super loaded with Corbon DPX is a great defensive load.
Springfield, Wilson and a few other manufactuerers have figured out how to make reliable 9mm 1911's and that opens to door to a very soft shooting platform to launch 127gr +P Gold-Dots.
Is Jardine even in the gun building biz anymore? Last I heard he stopped taking orders for Valtro pistols.
High Tower
10-08-09, 14:54
Hope no one minds me bumping this back up.
I was hoping Mr. Christiansen could comment on how the .357 Sig build is coming along.
I know that Jeff Hogan at Warrior Steel in Albuquerque was working up this platform. I don't know what the results were from that. Lemme ping him and find out.
Ned Christiansen
10-09-09, 00:23
This project is coming very slowly but in about 100 rounds sofar, no feeding issues, with Gold Dots and SXT's.
This project is coming very slowly but in about 100 rounds sofar, no feeding issues, with Gold Dots and SXT's.
that's encouraging. any specifics Ned - barrel length, velocity, mag capacity???
Ned Christiansen
10-09-09, 10:47
It's a single stack, mag cap is 8. Barrel is about 4 1/2", with a compensator. This is the first comped 1911 I've done in a long time. It works well with a high-strung round like .357 SIG of course but it is LOUD. I have not graphed any of these rounds and might not be able to get around to it.
High Tower
10-09-09, 11:04
Thanks for the update! I'm glad to hear that its working so far. I'll have to keep this in the back of my mind for the next 1911 project.
threefeathers
10-11-09, 12:36
I'd love a 1911 in 357 Sig.
Ned Christiansen
09-26-10, 09:43
It's done and running. I'll post something about it int he "1911 picture thread".
Here ya goes: link to "Elements galore: Ti, Cr, Al, and a Fe W others":
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=768087#post768087
My good buddy, and fantastic gunsmith, Bob Delmore, built a Caspian based .357 Sig Commander sized pistol, a couple of years ago. It was my pleasure to do the test firing for him, to ensure reliability, and to regulate the front sight height. It did require just a little more TLC to achieve perfect feeding, compared to a .45 build, but it was nothing major, and gave me an excuse to shoot the thing a bit more. I don't know if I'd go for one myself, versus a .38 Super or a 10mm, but it was a sweet shootin' little bastard. It was LOUD and real damn accurate.
Mr. Goodtimes
09-26-10, 10:26
I would be all over a 10mm 1911 if I had the money.
citadelshooter
09-27-10, 05:58
Here are the specs I requested for the commander:
- Stainless Caspian Commander slide. No rear sight cuts. No serrations.
- Briley frame. Its forged instead of cast. I need a forged one for my serration plans.
- Novak sights. 2 dot rear. Tritium from with white outline.
- Ed Brown left side only safety.
- Long, solid Nighthawk trigger.
- Vickers hammer/sear/disconnector kit. The one with the slotted hammer, not the classical.
- Ed Brown memory groove beavertail grip safety.
- Ed Brown stainless hex grip screws.
- Bobtail.
- Recessed slide stop. Wilson, Nighthawk, Brown - any good one that is recessed.
- Barrel - and quality commander barrel. Nighthawk, Wilson, Brown etc.
- No light rail.
- Good internals like Wilson, Wolff, etc.
- Good one piece guide rod. Not sure if I want full length or not.
Then I'll send it to Gemini Customs for a full Dragonskin treatment and a dehorning.
I'm hoping Robar can do Roguard for the safety, beavertail, bushing, slide stop, mag release, and trigger. And NP3 everything else.
I'm thinking Esmerelda grips for this one.
What do you guys think?
Contact Chris James at Combat Precision in Atlanta at info@combatprecision.com (info@combatprecision.com.). Chris made a 5" gun for a mutual friend/aquaintance of ours who was training with an agency using .357SIG. According to Chris it ran like a scalded dog. Here is the link to his 1911forum post. He could provide you with some good insight. It was one of his early builds, but Chris knows his stuff from operational use of 1911.
http://http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=199537
Here is a pic of the gun.
http://http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk153/VOA151/GLW1.jpg
Robb Jensen
09-27-10, 07:00
.357SIG in a 1911 is one of those why? things.
In a 1911 I'd rather have the better performing and cheaper to reload 10mm.
.357SIG does what it does well in a 9mm/.40 sized gun.
Ned Christiansen
09-27-10, 10:38
.357SIG in a 1911 is one of those why? things.
In a 1911 I'd rather have the better performing and cheaper to reload 10mm.
.357SIG does what it does well in a 9mm/.40 sized gun.
Totally agreed!
arbninftry
09-27-10, 10:49
.357SIG in a 1911 is one of those why? things.
In a 1911 I'd rather have the better performing and cheaper to reload 10mm.
.357SIG does what it does well in a 9mm/.40 sized gun.
A good friend of mine is having one built, or it might be done by now, but the answer to why for him was. He is a TX DPS officer. He has an buttload of FREE 357 SIG. So free was his reasoning.
Robb Jensen
09-27-10, 13:49
A good friend of mine is having one built, or it might be done by now, but the answer to why for him was. He is a TX DPS officer. He has an buttload of FREE 357 SIG. So free was his reasoning.
That would be a damn good reason. I know an IPSC shooter who built an Open division gun in .357SIG for this same reason.
arbninftry
09-27-10, 14:17
That would be a damn good reason. I know an IPSC shooter who built an Open division gun in .357SIG for this same reason.
He is building it off of a Colt, and he shoots alot of 1911s, so he also has the regular gear, holsters and stuff. It was a no brainer for him. My only concern for him, was going to be where to get good magazines. I think he might have that fixed by now. But if you have thousands of free rounds laying around and when he is off duty he has a 1911 on his hip, why not have one with free duty loads.
High Tower
09-28-10, 11:03
.357SIG in a 1911 is one of those why? things.
In a 1911 I'd rather have the better performing and cheaper to reload 10mm.
.357SIG does what it does well in a 9mm/.40 sized gun.
Since posting this thread quite awhile ago, i have come to the same
conclusion. I still think it would be fun to build one, but a 10mm makes more sense to me. Ned, that is one he'll of a gun you built!
Since posting this thread quite awhile ago, i have come to the same
conclusion. I still think it would be fun to build one, but a 10mm makes more sense to me. Ned, that is one he'll of a gun you built!
Indeed; that's a sexy gun.
Ned, you should have entered that in Art Prize ;)
grendelbane
10-18-10, 19:51
Once again, I am late for a party, but that never stopped me before. Once upon a time, I thought I had to have a 357 SIG barrel for my Delta Elite. Well, I got one, and I eventually did make it work. But, it wasn't easy.
Its a bit more versatile handloading with some bullets than the 9x23mm. For example, the 147 grain XTP is the only bullet I have found that will fit in the 9x23 case without bulging it. I can use just about any bullet in the 357 SIG, and when loaded full length, (1.265"), it runs pretty good.
357 SIG loaded to an in spec length has to be carefully chosen. Stuff I used to shoot though my P229 will tie up the DE.
It may be a fun idea, but I think the 9x23mm is much better suited to the 1911 platform.
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