Semi-auto Precision Rifles, 0 to 1000 yards

[RAM Engineer]

What would you recommend to a person looking for a PRECISION rifle with the following parameters:


Semi-Auto
Detachable Box Magazine
Caliber: 7.62x51 (or derivative cartridge) to .338 Lapua/.338 Norma Magnum
"combat" accuracy out to 1000 yards
Intermediate & Terminal ballistics that won't make DocGKR barf
Reliable
Durable
Easily Maintainable


While I think I have a pretty good knowledge of 5.56 semi-autos (thanks to this website) and larger caliber bolt-actions (due to my father, a precision fanatic), I know next to nothing about guns that are both large caliber AND semi-auto.

fyi: What made me think of this topic was a post by member Sinister on another forum regarding the Arms Tech Super Match Interdiction Rifle (SMIR) (http://www.armstechltd.com/products.php?id=smir_rifle)

Ok, I'm ready to be educated.

[Thomas M-4]

A .308 out of a semi auto at 1000 yards is really going to be pushing it it can be done but a better choice would be a 6.5 bullet IE a 6.5 creedmore or a 260 remington out of a AR-10 style rifle using VLD bullets .

[davidk]

Bushmaster purchased Cobb a year or so ago and will be offering their 338 auto. Looks promising! I shot their 50bmg design that they bought from Cobb with outstanding .5 MOA results

[Cold Zero]

SR-25

or

AR10-T

[BAC]

Funny, I'm saving up to do exactly this. :D

While my first instinct is to pick the rifle first, more experienced shooters and long range guys keep suggesting I find out what bullet I wanna send out yonder and then pick the rifle that can deliver it best and most often. Since you (and I) want detachable box magazines, that makes the job just a little easier since our choices are narrowed down by the maximum OAL permitted by the magazine. Like you, I've also limited my options based on the maximum OAL of .308 magazines.

The SMIR looks cool (especially with a 1/2 MOA guarantee), and the .300WM has the legs to go the distance and kick ass when it gets there, but I don't know anything else about either the rifle and only very little about the caliber. I find myself leaning more towards an AR-pattern rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5x47 Lapua, but several factors have me less sure of this combination than when I originally started planning it out.


-B

[RAM Engineer]

A .308 out of a semi auto at 1000 yards is really going to be pushing it it can be done but a better choice would be a 6.5 bullet IE a 6.5 creedmore or a 260 remington out of a AR-10 style rifle using VLD bullets .

That's on my list to consider. I just know nothing about .308 AR-style rifles. I know there's KAC, Armalite, DPMS and (hopefully soon) Larue. Any issues with 6.5 OAL in the KAC/DPMS mags?


Bushmaster purchased Cobb a year or so ago and will be offering their 338 auto. Looks promising! I shot their 50bmg design that they bought from Cobb with outstanding .5 MOA results

I look forward to seeing that. Doesn't Bushmaster make a 7.62 style AR also? Anyone have experience with it?


SR-25

or

AR10-T

Are the SR-25's available to civilians currently? I've heard good things about the AR-10Ts, I'm just concerned that their magazine design is an evolutionary dead end, since everyone else is going with the KAC/DPMS/Early-Armalite Pattern.

How would you compare/contrast the KAC and Armalite guns?


Funny, I'm saving up to do exactly this. :D

While my first instinct is to pick the rifle first, more experienced shooters and long range guys keep suggesting I find out what bullet I wanna send out yonder and then pick the rifle that can deliver it best and most often. Since you (and I) want detachable box magazines, that makes the job just a little easier since our choices are narrowed down by the maximum OAL permitted by the magazine. Like you, I've also limited my options based on the maximum OAL of .308 magazines.

The SMIR looks cool (especially with a 1/2 MOA guarantee), and the .300WM has the legs to go the distance and kick ass when it gets there, but I don't know anything else about either the rifle and only very little about the caliber. I find myself leaning more towards an AR-pattern rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5x47 Lapua, but several factors have me less sure of this combination than when I originally started planning it out.

Actually, I haven't limited myself to the maximum OAL of .308 magazines, it just seems like that's all thats available in Semi-autos right now. :)

Just heard back from the company. SMIR = $8500 + S&H. Looks nice, but that's a heck of a lot of money for a gun that I've read ZERO user reviews on.

What factors are making you "less sure" of the 6.5 AR-pattern rifles?

Any love out there for FN or M1A rifles or do the big-bore ARs eat their lunch (in terms of accuracy and reliabilty) like the 5.56 ARs do?

How about the "new" FNAR rifles? Their ugly as sin, but do they perform?

I see GA Precision will build precision ARs on DPMS platforms. Worthwhile?

Thanks for all the feedback guys, keep it coming!

[Cold Zero]

I could not tell you if KAC is selling their guns to civilians, or not. I can tell you they can be bought on Gun Broker regularly and are fine weapons.

That being said, you will not be disapointed with an Armalite AR 10T either. MHO.

Bushmaster does not currently make a .308 AR. But, they will be coming out with one within the next 6 months.

[Thomas M-4]

DPMS factory chambers rifles in 6.5 creedmore and 260 rem.
6.5X47 Lapua is the hot shit in Benchrest right now its designed to feed from .308 magazines but I have yet to see a autoloader chambered for it. All 3 of the cartridges use 6.5mm bullets and have .308 case heads and feed out of .308 magazines. The differences are case neck lengths shoulder angles and case tapers.
The 6.5x47 Lapua is designed to work at higher pressures That maybe why I haven't seen any chambered in an autoloader ? From the info that I can find the 6.5 creedmore is the american version of the 6.5x47 Lapua.
Here is some info for you to read http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

[Thomas M-4]

Oh yea by the way to get the max performance out of any of the 3 6.5mm cartridges you going to have to reload. There is factory ammo but its expensive or with the .260 rem I don't believe there is a factory loaded cartridge with VLD bullets.

[BAC]

I hear what you're saying about not wanting to limit yourself to .308 mags, but like you say, it's what's available. For what it's worth, the .260 seems to limit your bullet selection a little in .308 mags, but I'm not sure how much (can't find my notes at the moment). The 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x47 Lapua would both allow you a little more breathing room to run 130+ gr bullets. You know, the ones with 550+ BC? :D


What factors are making you "less sure" of the 6.5 AR-pattern rifles?
Specifically, pressure curves and reliable cycling. AR-10s in calibers other than .308 seem to be much more prone to problems, and the reasons vary pretty widely. While converting a .308 AR to a 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5x47 Lapua pretty requires basically only a barrel change, we're talking about a 10k difference in chamber pressure, which worries me. DPMS makes heavy-walled uppers, which are probably a necessity, but I have no idea how that difference in pressure is going to manifest in the cycling of the weapon or how long those heavy-walled uppers can withstand the higher pressures.

I've written off M1As as an option for a precision rifle mostly because of size and function; M1As are long SOBs, comparatively speaking, and I don't have any experience with one that reliably functioned like I would expect them to. Maybe my friends have been unlucky, maybe not. Additionally, the SMIR looks good, but not $8500 good. The FNAR, on the other hand, I've been looking at pretty closely. Seems like everyone who has them likes them, and report greater accuracy than the 1 MOA guarantee. For $1400, that might not be bad at all.


I see GA Precision will build precision ARs on DPMS platforms. Worthwhile?
If I go ahead with my AR project, that's who's building it. ;)


-B

[RAM Engineer]

BAC,

I just realized that you were the initiator of a thread I'd been looking at closely on Lightfighter. I went back and read it and saw TIS had recommended sticking with .308 with 155 Scenars. Any thoughts on this option?

I've only shot to 1000 yards once, and that was with 175gr MatchKings in a borrowed gun. I won't blame my poor performance on the equipment though. Lack of practice and experience are all I can hang it on. (I won't blame it on lack of skill until I've got enough matches under my belt to also blame it on equipment! :D)

[BAC]

If you're talking about this one (http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4706084761/m/132102042), then yup, that's me.

(Preface: I’m definitely still an amateur shooter, and have a lot to learn. My opinion is thusly worth what you paid for it.)

Sticking with the 155 gr Scenars is an option, yes, but the reason I want to get away from the .308 is because there are better options for long range shooting. I want something that’ll shoot flatter, buck wind better, and retain energy longer than the .308, which naturally means either stepping down to a 6.5mm or stepping up to the magnums. The 155 gr Scenar is nice for the .308, but can’t really compete with the higher BC 6.5mm bullets in the 130-142 gr range from Berger, Lapua, and Sierra. Since there aren’t exactly many realistic options for semi-auto rifles in the bigger magnum calibers, I’ll take the step down to the softer shooting 6.5s and be happy.

I suspect that if anyone can get a 6.5mm AR-10 to run right, it would be GAP. I just need to save up the coin and make the commitment more than anything else.


-B

[RAM Engineer]

The more I think about it, what I really want is a Remington MSR. A man can dream, can't he? ;)

[Thomas M-4]

The MSR sure does look to be a sweet set up. But I would rather have a KMW sentinel http://www.kmwlrs.com/SentinelRifle.htm
Chambered in 7mm SAUM loaded with berger 180 vld's http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html
surgen action http://www.surgeonrifles.com/homepage/
With a nightforce nxs scope http://www.nightforceoptics.com/SCOPES_OVERVIEW/5_5-22x50___5_5-22x56/5_5-22x50___5_5-22x56.html
And a barrett bors http://www.barrettrifles.com/home/optics_bors.aspx

:D

[BAC]

Swap the Surgeon action for a Templar and Thomas just nailed my dream bolt gun dead on. :eek:


-B

[Thomas M-4]

Swap the Surgeon action for a Templar and Thomas just nailed my dream bolt gun dead on. :eek:


-B

I guess great minds think alike ;)
The GA Templar is a very nice lookin action too.
KMW is also using the Badger Ord M-2008 also http://www.badgerordnance.com/productgroup.php?id=action3
Its hard to decide with every one releasing kick ass actions:D

[Ga Shooter]

Have you considered this one I have heard really good things about it?

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF049&gid=FNG022

[RAM Engineer]

Have you considered this one I have heard really good things about it?

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF049&gid=FNG022

Mentioned above in posts 6 & 10. If you have any info on them, feel free to share. I haven't read any reviews or user opinions on them yet, but I'm interested.

[Ga Shooter]

I overlooked the previous mentions. I don't have personal experience yet with one but have heard great things about them. I may purchase one very soon. Just doing research on scopes, flashiders, and suppresors. I know the mechanics is based on the Browning BAr rifle and should be extremely durable and reliable.