View Full Version : Difference in Accuracy Consistency Between Free Float vs. Non-FF???
What impact does a free float design vs. non-FF design rail make on an AR??? I've seen both, but noticed Free-Floats are much more expensive. What are the benefits?:confused: Worth the added expense???
This seems like a dumb response on my part, but free floats do not touch the barrel. They attach at the delta ring, the others are usually drop in replacements to the standard hand guards you currently have. When you go to mount VFG's and the like, you're adding stress to the barrel. Any added stress/torque to the barrel will pull your shots.
It certainly will effect accuracy as pressure put in the forend will move the barrel. David Spaulding did a write up in one of the magazines about his accuracy tests. I remember that he found a difference but don't remember the details. I will see if I can find the article
putting pressure on the barrel moves the barrel, and a moved barrel doesnt put rounds in the same place.
RogerinTPA
07-19-09, 15:28
Consistency of accuracy is what a free float provides for our purposes. Not that a non-free float weapon can't provide it under match grade conditions, such as glass bedding added to a match grade M1A, M-1, or precision .22, to perfectly mate the barrel to the stock, to minimize barrel movement to provide that consistent accuracy. If you don't compete or have the skills to take advantage of it, most folks will never notice the difference.
My opinion is that for a carbine's intended purpose of short range use, a non-free floating unit is entirely adequate and even desirable under field conditions. The Knight's Armament M-4 Rail Adapter System is one often used.
But...there are those who want free floating rails to squeeze all the accuracy out of the carbine that is possible. The big question is: What will your carbine be used for? If it is short range use, then either type of rail system will suffice. It really is a personal decision that depends on one's willingness to part with his cash. There are a lot of quality rails available.
I am by no means a great shooter but I used to shoot dcm matches and heard a lot of great knowledge from the great shooters I came across. As someone already said, in the case of a carbine which may be used for shorter distances it may not make a noticable difference. Also, the difference is not gonna be like cutting your group sizes in half. It is more subtle than that. And if you don't have the skill of a match shooter you may not notice the little bit more accuracy it will give you. It is one of those things that will squeeze just a little more accuracy out of a rifle. But read on to see why I think it WILL help (in combat only for the average shooter).
Accurate shooting is made up of 3 basic things the way I see it. 1)Accurate rifles and good equipment such as a shooting coat, sight blackener, etc, 2)Accurate ammo, 3)Consistency in technique (always holding the rifle the same way, using the same sight picture, etc, etc, etc). When you add up all those things, wether it is better technique or better hardware, the sum of all those things make a big difference in accuracy. A free floating barrel is a piece of hardware that isolates the barrel from the handguard. This helps prevent a change in your sight picture from shot to shot depending on how hard you pull on the sling or push or pull the handguard. By itself it is not a big accuracy improver for the average shooter in a match situation.
The way I do see it helping is because in a combat situation, many of the things you would be able to do as a match shooter (technique-wise) cannot be done. So, in combat where your stress level is up and you might hold the handguard differently from shot to shot, or pull on the sling attached to the handguard differently from shot to shot, a free floating barrel might be one of the few practical things you can use to improve your accuracy slightly. In the above combat situation an average shooter might get a lot more benefit from a free floating barrel than he would in a match situation. The reason is because in the stress of combat, technique is almost completely thrown out the window, while in a match you are watching your technique.
But how often will you find yourself in a combat situation? I would say the added expense is probbaly not justifiable for the majority of shooters. Now if you are the type of guy that has to have every great feature they can get, and can afford it, then knowing you have a free floating barrel would probably make you happy.
Mr.Goodtimes
07-20-09, 04:18
I noticed a huge difference going from a non free float rail system to a FF rail system on my gun.
Before i installed my Larue rail i was gettin about 4 MOA groups at 100yds, sometimes more (using an eotech). After installing the Larue rail ill get as good as 1.5MOA and average about 2-3.
Failure2Stop
07-20-09, 04:28
FF makes a big difference in precision and reduces or eliminates POI shift when shooting from support, loading bipods, or using a sling-assisted position.
Mt Goodtimes, I didn't think it would make such a huge difference. You didn't happen to drop an accuwedge in there, or change ammo type, or both at the same time you added the rail did you? If you just did the rail then that is huge. Sign me up. Do you have a link to some of these rail mfgs?
Mr.Goodtimes
07-20-09, 07:49
an accuwedge wont make a difference in accuracy, and in my opinion they are about worthless. Upper/lower slop is normal (within reason).
My rifle will hold about 2.5 MOA with remington 55gr UMC
and nope, didnt change anything except the rail. With 75gr TAP it will shoot about 1.25 MOA or better depending on conditions and weather or not im have a good or bad eye day.
Larue (i have the 11in version)
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Categories.bok?category=AR+Handguards
Daniel Defense
http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/browse&category=railsystems
Troy
http://www.troyind.com/productsM4.html
The above are all excellent rails.
The Daniel Defense Omega is a great choice if your not comfortable messing around with your weapon. It requires no permanent modification to the weapon and installs in about 5 min. (its a free float)
The DD lite rails are highly regarded and are an excellent system. Installation will require removal of FSB and barrel nut.
The troy MRF series requires that you cut of the delta ring, then it just clamps on to your stock barrel nut. this is a pretty simple and quick installation as well.
The troy TRX is a new rail from Troy thats getting good reviews.
The larue is going to require that you remove your FSB and barrel nut. youll need some tools for this.
decodeddiesel
07-20-09, 17:06
You didn't happen to drop an accuwedge in there, or change ammo type, or both at the same time you added the rail did you?
Accu-wedges are straight BS. They don't do a god damn thing to help accuracy, and they can effect reliability adversely.
https://www.m4carbine.net/search.php?searchid=1228100
Accu-wedges are straight BS. They don't do a god damn thing to help accuracy, and they can effect reliability adversely.
https://www.m4carbine.net/search.php?searchid=1228100
+1
It is complete garbage.
an accuwedge wont make a difference in accuracy, and in my opinion they are about worthless. Upper/lower slop is normal (within reason).
My rifle will hold about 2.5 MOA with remington 55gr UMC
and nope, didnt change anything except the rail. With 75gr TAP it will shoot about 1.25 MOA or better depending on conditions and weather or not im have a good or bad eye day.
Larue (i have the 11in version)
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Categories.bok?category=AR+Handguards
Daniel Defense
http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/browse&category=railsystems
Troy
http://www.troyind.com/productsM4.html
The above are all excellent rails.
The Daniel Defense Omega is a great choice if your not comfortable messing around with your weapon. It requires no permanent modification to the weapon and installs in about 5 min. (its a free float)
The DD lite rails are highly regarded and are an excellent system. Installation will require removal of FSB and barrel nut.
The troy MRF series requires that you cut of the delta ring, then it just clamps on to your stock barrel nut. this is a pretty simple and quick installation as well.
The troy TRX is a new rail from Troy thats getting good reviews.
The larue is going to require that you remove your FSB and barrel nut. youll need some tools for this.
Thanks for the rail info. Do you or anyone know someone who got the DD Omega and was happy with it? I saw the reviews, but I always like to hear it from people off the mfg website. The Omega is probbaly as complex as I would want to go, which is not complex at all. But I looked at the pictures and it looks like the front of the rail is right up against the front handguard catch thing behind the fsb, or maybe even touching. The other thing I was wondering is if it's really that rock solid. I suppose that this thing grabs somewhere around the delta ring. And I can't imagine it being that solid without touching the fsb for a quick setup unit. But of course we don't want to touch the fsb cause that would defeat the purpose.
Thanks to all for the accuwege input. That link to 1228100 is not coming up. Any ideas?
decodeddiesel
07-20-09, 19:31
Sorry about that...just an accu-wedge search which supported the claim I made.
Mr.Goodtimes
07-20-09, 19:36
they all work for me, thats odd.
the omega will not touch the front hand guard cap, and is a solid unit. ive never used one personally but, anyone on here will tell you that, as far as drop in rails are concerned, the omega is the shit.
Hey thanks for turning me on to that DD Omega. It looks sweet and the reviews are all 5 stars. Everybody swears by how rock solid it is. It is definitely on my wish list. Might even get it before I get optics. Thanks.
Sorry about that...just an accu-wedge search which supported the claim I made.
They definitely cleverly market those things for sure ;) Lots of guys are duped by 'em.
They definitely cleverly market those things for sure ;) Lots of guys are duped by 'em.
Ok, I don't wanna get duped by clever marketing. So, if you're gonna make a comment like that, the least you could do is show me reviews or forum posts where people have bad things to say about them.
I like to find out as much as possible ahead of time before buying something. And these days I am often disapointed by something I buy that doesn't seem to live up to the hype.
As far as this rail, I'm not just talking about the 5 star reviews on the DD site. I am talking about forum comments I have seen. I have read probably 100 different comments and all are positive. I think the worse one was that the barrel nut screws or the barrel nut itself came a little loose, but the owner didn't think it was the fault of the rail, but rather the gun.
There was one post I can't find now that had several pages of nothing but positive comments from guys that have had the rail for a while and had no problems. These were guys that went through training, thousands of rounds, and other such comments. So, if you can please send me any negative stuff you have on it. I don't wanna waste $250.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=22044
I was referring to the Accu-wedge, not the DD Omega.
I was referring to the Accu-wedge, not the DD Omega.
Sorry about that. The eyes are definitely getting old.
Sorry about that. The eyes are definitely getting old.
No worries! Happens to me all the time, too! The Omega series is good to go. Everybody I know with one loves it.
Thanks for all the input fellas!
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