View Full Version : Larue 9.0 VS. DD Lite 9.0
No Bananas
07-20-09, 16:17
Trying to decide which is best for my 12.5" rebuild:D.
larues have a better connection and are more rigid. between DD and larue for a straight rail, i'll take a larue every time.
dd's are great for their special purpose rails, but just simply are not as strong as larue.
but perhaps you shouldnt worry about it.. i seem to be th only one breaking DDs.
Great Idea for a poll, I am having the same dilemma. I like the solid mounting of the LaRue but the DD mounting looks mean. :D I think my decision is going to be made on which one has a slimmer profile.
I just went through that dilemma. My gas block made the choice for me. I got a DD lo-pro clamp-on gas block thinking that a LaRue 9 would fit, apparently it doesn't so I ordered a DDM49.0. It should arrive this week. I chose the M4 over the Lite because of price and weight, and I didn't want to buy a special wrench for the installation. Hopefully the "lock-up" of the M4 rail will be sufficient for my Mega "SPRish" project.
Great Idea for a poll, I am having the same dilemma. I like the solid mounting of the LaRue but the DD mounting looks mean. :D I think my decision is going to be made on which one has a slimmer profile.
larue is as slim as it gets
For me the LaRue rail just looks better than any other. YMMV
Whole 'lotta weird in this thread. Not sure how a Larue rail is a "better connection" than the Lite rail, or how you quantify "more rigid".
my take on free float rails (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/41127.html)
To sum up:
I would choose the DD Omega if I was not allowed to, or was unable to, remove the stock parts required for installation of the other rails.
I would choose the DD M4 rail if weight, simplicity, width, and internal diameter were critical for me.
I would choose the DD Lite rail if weight and a continuous top rail were critical for me.
I would choose the LT rail if price, overall height and an integral sling swivel were critical for me.
chart to help you make up your own mind (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsFnUZMkZNF2DQ)
larue is as slim as it gets
This isn't actually true either. A Daniel Defense Omega is 1.90" wide, and a DD M4 is 1.94" wide. The Larue is 2.00, while the DD Lite is 2.06. Now you might be able to tell .10" difference between the LT and the M4, but I seriously doubt anyone is going to notice the .06 difference between the LT and the Lite.
No Bananas
07-20-09, 18:57
I must admit that I'm leaning toward the DD Lite or DD M4 rail mostly because weight is important to me. There's no doubt that Larue makes the toughest around. I guess what I'd want to know about the DD Lite / DD M4 is if it will lock up rock solid tight and if it is strong enough to take some punishment.
This isn't actually true either.
Both of my claims are, according to the physics presented to me.
Total circumfrance / base x highth on three sitting on my work bench:
Larue - 17.2 cm / 1.996" x 2.212"
DD M4 - 17.8 cm / 1.943" x 2.429"
DD Lite - 18.2 cm / 2.039" x 2.444"
Unfortunately, i have no Omegas on hand to measure at the moment
The larue is slimmer and shorter than both. I can completely wrap my hand around a larue, i cannot with the DDs... hence, i get a better grip on the larue. its a really noticeable difference.
As far as strength- the DD Lite is attached via 2 aluminum bolt-up rings which arent that hard to bend/crush- i know, ive done it. All DDs are welded to their respective connectors via 4 exterior welds that bear most of the weight. These welds can break- i know, I've done it.
the larue rails are welded on the rear of the attachment point between the ring and rail body sections- this weld supports the connection that bears the weight, it doesn't directly bear the weight on it's own. of course it can break, but it's a lot less likely to than the DDs.
SWATcop556
07-20-09, 21:15
I went with the Larue rail, but I have been known to drink the koolaid. :cool:
justin_247
07-20-09, 22:00
As far as strength- the DD Lite is attached via 2 aluminum bolt-up rings which arent that hard to bend/crush- i know, ive done it. All DDs are welded to their respective connectors via 4 exterior welds that bear most of the weight. These welds can break- i know, I've done it.
Do you have pictures of this? This is the first I've heard of such a thing. There are numerous threads that discuss just how strong these rails are. Are you running them over with a tank or something?
Whole 'lotta weird in this thread.
Yup, sounds about like normal.
Whole 'lotta weird in this thread. Not sure how a Larue rail is a "better connection" than the Lite rail, or how you quantify "more rigid".
my take on free float rails (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/41127.html)
To sum up:
I would choose the DD Omega if I was not allowed to, or was unable to, remove the stock parts required for installation of the other rails.
I would choose the DD M4 rail if weight, simplicity, width, and internal diameter were critical for me.
I would choose the DD Lite rail if weight and a continuous top rail were critical for me.
I would choose the LT rail if price, overall height and an integral sling swivel were critical for me.
chart to help you make up your own mind (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsFnUZMkZNF2DQ)
Thanks for the info!
I feel better about choosing the DDM4.
Do you have pictures of this? This is the first I've heard of such a thing. There are numerous threads that discuss just how strong these rails are. Are you running them over with a tank or something?
this is the end result of the last one. it was pressed up against the barrel until i reinstalled and beat on it with a hammer.
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/77/l_2398f30aba2c483bbbdd58ca4331996c.jpg
the damage to the bolt up rings isn't overt. it manifested itself in the form of visible gaps on one side, and i suspect that if i took a caliper to the other side i'd find that it's been squished a bit. otherwise, these little slivers don't fully account for almost an inch of movement 7 inches away.
bent side
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/40/l_55d836aaefc44fa7be9a63b9e6a20d36.jpg
crushed side
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/98/l_408034967d8f4ea88c8c17d7ec65baf7.jpg
i took pictures of the one with broken welds, but that was back before i documented things in any kind of organized fashion, so i'll have to dig them out of my massive photo disks. Again, the only thing overt about the photos is that it's crooked- it wasn't obvious that the welds were broken until you wiggled the guard, and could see them rotate independent of the rail.
Whole 'lotta weird in this thread.
Its getting wierder. :D
Wow...
Did you take these issues up with Daniel Defense ?
I wonder if the problem(s) you encountered have happened to any other folks?
Faulty workmanship or extraordinary circumstance ???
justin_247
07-21-09, 00:30
bkb,
That's crazy, man! I'm very curious as to what you do with your rifles for them to get busted up so bad...
Anyways, you definitely need to talk to DD about this. I'm sure they'd be very interested in what all has happened with you and your rails.
DD took care of the first one, and i never heard back about the second one. i gave up after a couple of weeks.
but lets not derail this thread- i'm simply making the point that i think larue rails are stronger, and have supporting evidence. i still use DD rails (until i break another, then i'm done)- their special purpose rails cant be beat. Omega, FSB and FSBM, RIS- awesome products.
Whole 'lotta weird in this thread. Not sure how a Larue rail is a "better connection" than the Lite rail, or how you quantify "more rigid".
my take on free float rails (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/41127.html)
To sum up:
I would choose the DD Omega if I was not allowed to, or was unable to, remove the stock parts required for installation of the other rails.
I would choose the DD M4 rail if weight, simplicity, width, and internal diameter were critical for me.
I would choose the DD Lite rail if weight and a continuous top rail were critical for me.
I would choose the LT rail if price, overall height and an integral sling swivel were critical for me.
chart to help you make up your own mind (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsFnUZMkZNF2DQ)
+1
I will follow this info. when it comes time to purchase mine.
matthewdanger
07-21-09, 06:26
Rob did a good job of laying things out. I have and use both for many of the reasons he listed. I tend to run LaRue by default because I like the integral QD sling sockets (also the price is nice).
One reason not listed on Rob's list that is if you need a rail to extend your rail beyond the front sight base. I feel cramped on carbine handguards so my rifles with carbine gas systems get FSP model rails from DD (I have a DDM4 with the Omega X rail and another build with a 9.5FSP Lite).
So for me, it basically comes down to this:
- Midlength or longer gets a LaRue based on price and integral QD sockets
- Carbines get DD rails that extend past the FSB
Singlestack Wonder
08-08-09, 13:25
Too bad LaRue doesn't make a 12" model with a cut-out for the FSB on carbines.
:(
Too bad LaRue doesn't make a 12" model with a cut-out for the FSB on carbines.
:(
ive thought/said the same- i'm sure they will, at some point.
right now DD dominates the specialty handguard market- if you want a FSB/FSBM style guard, a RIS, a guard for a permed weapon, etc, you go to DD.
SWS, who makes NRW's guard, recently started producing an FSB guard.. i haven't seen 'em in real life, but i'm sure they're typical of Art's work: perfect.
Singlestack Wonder
08-08-09, 17:26
I'm leaning towards a Troy MRF-CX. I don't want to pay the premium for a DD RIS II to get anti-rotate capability. Again, if only LaRue had an FSB model.....:rolleyes:
I'm leaning towards a Troy MRF-CX. I don't want to pay the premium for a DD RIS II to get anti-rotate capability. Again, if only LaRue had an FSB model.....:rolleyes:
have you not seen the Lite FSPs? http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/browse&category=railsystems_ar15literails
these dont rotate
Singlestack Wonder
08-08-09, 17:56
The DD Lite rails do not have an anti-rotate device (only the RIS II versions do). Granted, with a properly torqued barrel nut, no rotation should occur BUT with a VFG installed and the right bump into a few walls at 3-gun matches, with my luck it will loosen up. I don't want the gas tube to act as an anti rotate device.
The DD Lite rails do not have an anti-rotate device (only the RIS II versions do). Granted, with a properly torqued barrel nut, no rotation should occur BUT with a VFG installed and the right bump into a few walls at 3-gun matches, with my luck it will loosen up. I don't want the gas tube to act as an anti rotate device.
everyone's welcome to their own qualms, and i'm in no position to judge. all the same:
With the lite, your gas tube wouldn't ever touch the rail even if it did manage to loosen up. the lite barrel nut does not encompass the tube like other nuts- it sits below the tube.
secondly, the lite is torqued tighter than the larue, so it's less likely to loosen up- larues have that nice anti-rotate plate, but there's still some degree of play. the DD's just have a little more play before the screw contacts the receiver.
thirdly, even if it did loosen up, the screws do serve as security- it would only rotate about 1/50th of a turn before stopping. your weapon would still function, your barrel would still be tight agains the receiver face.
so rotation is absolutely no reason to not get a lite, my friend.
:)
Singlestack Wonder
08-08-09, 20:56
DD must have had a concern with rotation as they put anti-rotation tabs on the RIS Series (or maybe the military required them due to their concerns about rotation). Also, the tube does go thru the rail locking ring and if it turns, it will hit the tube.
The Troy MRF-CX seems like a quality rail at a good price. Why not the Troy?
Ive used several DD Lite rails on various length builds and I simply cannot imagine one rotating if properly torqued.
To break one.....you ran it over with a tractor or something.
This is a 10.0 with a 12.5 barrel like the OP was asking about. I like more of the barrel shrouded than you get with a 9.0.
http://gallery.me.com/spaceflipper/100647/DSC_0040/web.jpg?ver=12461545910001
evileyeswatchin
08-09-09, 18:09
In all honesty you can not go wrong with either.
I own both and they are top notch.
Pick which ever one has the features you want and get it.
DD must have had a concern with rotation as they put anti-rotation tabs on the RIS Series (or maybe the military required them due to their concerns about rotation). Also, the tube does go thru the rail locking ring and if it turns, it will hit the tube.
The Troy MRF-CX seems like a quality rail at a good price. Why not the Troy?
almost an inch of bearing, with both bolt-up rings (one welded to the rail, the other behind the nut, bolted together), though. also, the port cover rod captures the boltup ring, further impairing movement.
from my own experience beating the absolute dog-shit out of my guns and breaking a lot of components, you're gonna break or bend it before it loosens up- which i've done.
i cant speak for the RIS, never used one.. have one on the way, though.. i have high expectations
the Troys dont get a lot of use, and i couldn't tell you why. i've handled a few, including operating one.. they're heavier- and i'm sure that's a big part of it.. they're also pretty sharp- not nearly as much finish machining. i do know that companies like Larue and DD would sell a lot more rails if they lowered their prices to Troy/YHM/MI level- but they cannot, and still make money, because of how much effort goes into their rails. that doesn't directly correlate to superior durability, but it's certainly evidence of it.
you can get or not get any rail you want, and for any reason you want- but the risk of rotation with a DD Lite is just not there
http://gallery.me.com/spaceflipper/100647/DSC_0040/web.jpg?ver=12461545910001
there goes ANOTHER kriplekap... this is kind of like playing "Winnebago" ;)
http://gallery.me.com/spaceflipper/100647/DSC_0040/web.jpg?ver=12461545910001
Excellent SBR MM!
Love the paint job on the lower. Very unique!
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