View Full Version : M4 Piston Carbine
OldNavyGuy
07-21-09, 09:09
this newest M4 type carbine is in my OPINION, so far is the best idea/concept in breaking away from the traditional manufacture of these type weapons. from the reports i have been privy to, i am amazed at the simplicity of a once complex system, as can be seen in this one minute video the upper can be disassembled in seconds without tools..,
""The MOD.1 can be rapidly field stripped without tools; the quick release, return to zero, free–float railed handguard can simply be removed by unlatching its locking lever; the operating system can be stripped by releasing the gas block lock nut and sliding the whole assembly forward without removing the handguard""
i will have one of these carbines in my hands within a week, i plan on mounting my Trijicon ACOG TA31 on it and running 500 rounds thru it at 100, 200 and 500 yd ranges some slow fire aimed and some aimed rapid fire, i'll do my best to give a "Range Report" and general critique on the carbines features. it will also come with a "Countashot" and the ""M3 Extreme Duty Charging Handle"" with ""3rd Gen. Design to include beverage escapement functionality"".., needles to say, i am very excited to get this carbine in my hands, it has been a long time coming, one other thing, the Military is "very interested in this weapon".
http://www.leitner-wise.com/mod1.html
this newest M4 type carbine is in my OPINION, so far is the best idea/concept in breaking away from the traditional manufacture of these type weapons. from the reports i have been privy to, i am amazed at the simplicity of a once complex system, as can be seen in this one minute video the upper can be disassembled in seconds without tools..,
i will have one of these carbines in my hands within a week, i plan on mounting my Trijicon ACOG TA31 on it and running 500 rounds thru it at 100, 200 and 500 yd ranges some slow fire aimed and some aimed rapid fire, i'll do my best to give a "Range Report" and general critique on the carbines features. it will also come with a "Countashot" and the ""M3 Extreme Duty Charging Handle"" with ""3rd Gen. Design to include beverage escapement functionality"".., needles to say, i am very excited to get this carbine in my hands, it has been a long time coming, one other thing, the Military is "very interested in this weapon".
http://www.leitner-wise.com/mod1.html
Hmm, looks innovative in the way it comes apart and goes together. Not sure if his past will not taint anything he does though. People tend not to forgive. That's too bad if he's an ingenious person, too.
Steel_Weasel
07-22-09, 13:05
PLW is industry poison. His history is so unscrupulous/odious that there is virtually no chance of success even if the "mod 1" was the best thing out there.
PLW is industry poison. His history is so unscrupulous/odious that there is virtually no chance of success even if the "mod 1" was the best thing out there.
That's what I was afraid of. I don't know the details but he seems to have screwed himself royally with whatever it is he did.
OldNavyGuy
07-23-09, 08:29
if he's an ingenious person,
not "IF", he really is, i consider him to be a good friend, i have met Paul, he is a gentleman in all respects, his innovativeness is astounding, he has discussed with me several projects he is working on that has the military's attention.., and mine too.
forget the past folks and concentrate on the product, many of which are "ground breaking" ideas, the piston system for one is in my OPINION the best in the AR/M4 world.
At least now LWRC can point to a company that is more SLIMEY than they are!
I wonder if we'll be seeing Leitner fighting to get his guns on Future weapons with that retarded navy seal goofball too!
At least now LWRC can point to a company that is more SLIMEY than they are!
I wonder if we'll be seeing Leitner fighting to get his guns on Future weapons with that retarded navy seal goofball too!
Dude you have some serious hate for LWRC huh?
Gee that looks to be a direct copy of the Hk 416 rail/barrel nut idea
RogerinTPA
07-23-09, 09:30
If you really don't have a real need for this weapon, I'd wait a few years for any of the Piston makers, to work all of the bugs out. DI guns are fine if you know how to keep them running. Back when the piston was being developed by HK, the military, across the board, knew very little about proper maintenance on the DI gun, thus contributing to the reliability issue. I'd like to get a piston as well, to add to the collection, but I have no desire to enter into an on going "Parcel exchange affair" and getting on a first name basis with any company, until the product is fixed. I really wish that these companies would send out samples to well known trainers (NOT gun rags) to T&E their products.
Gee that looks to be a direct copy of the Hk 416 rail/barrel nut idea
*dingdingdingdingdingding*
How about that, huh? Yeah, a REAL gentleman. Between that and other things that occurred in the past that we're being encouraged to forget by ONG (yeah, okay, whatever) there are substantive reasons why some consider that guy as professional as Herb freaking Tarlek from WKRP in Cinncinnati.
on Future weapons with that retarded navy seal goofball too!
I swear to Crom, if I have one more person in my office tell me I look like that drama queen douchenozzle from CURRENTWEAPONS, I'm going to kick a kitten through a turbine.
Gee that looks to be a direct copy of the Hk 416 rail/barrel nut idea
i saw it at the nra show this year. i was checking out the weapon shot counter they have and saw a demo of the upper and other than the rail sliding off in one piece, it's nothing like the 416 set up.
interesting piece, piston market place is starting to look a little crowded now but then the standard ar market has been for sometime.
forget the past folks
sorry, no. A leopard doesn't change it's spots, and bad business practices to not get forgiven by perceived "genius".
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/024.jpg
Other than being a piston and sharing a very similar barrel nut and one piece rail removal....
:rolleyes:
i'd bow to your knowledge on this although the barrel nut looked much smaller than the hk one and the locking mechanism was a lever. i thought it had more in common with lmt's mrp, essentially a form of c clamp.
Steel_Weasel
07-23-09, 20:19
sorry, no. A leopard doesn't change it's spots, and bad business practices to not get forgiven by perceived "genius".
+1. PLW's shady past goes back a lot farther than what occured at the old LWRC.
OldNavyGuy
07-23-09, 22:52
Gee that looks to be a direct copy of the Hk 416 rail/barrel nut idea
"a direct copy", NO ! similar in some aspects, YES !
OldNavyGuy
07-23-09, 23:14
If you really don't have a real need for this weapon, I'd wait a few years for any of the Piston makers, to work all of the bugs out. (that is what i am here for) DI guns are fine if you know how to keep them running. Back when the piston was being developed by HK, the military, across the board, knew very little about proper maintenance on the DI gun, thus contributing to the reliability issue. (very true) I'd like to get a piston as well, to add to the collection, but I have no desire to enter into an on going "Parcel exchange affair" and getting on a first name basis with any company, until the product is fixed. (can you name one or two ?) I really wish that these companies would send out samples to well known trainers (NOT gun rags) to T&E their products.
well sir, i am not a "well known trainer/s", but i plan on giving a T&E report as soon as i burn 5,000 rounds thru it, which may take a while, when i do go shooting, i typically burn 300-500 rounds in the 2 or 3 guns i take to the range, this time i will be concentrating on just that one gun, if you have any ideas, suggestions or questions please post them here, PM me or Email me.., OK ?
OldNavyGuy
07-23-09, 23:54
+1. PLW's shady past goes back a lot farther than what occured at the old LWRC.
and your knowledge of this is exactly what & how, personal first hand or second hand gossip ? am knowledgeable of some of his infractions, but as i said. forget the person and concentrate on the product, thank you.
OldNavyGuy
07-24-09, 00:06
sorry, no. A leopard doesn't change it's spots, and bad business practices to not get forgiven by perceived "genius".
Paul is certainly not a leopard sir, more closely related to a repentant sinner.., let's talk guns, equipment and parts just leave out the personal crap OK ? thank you.
:rolleyes:
Nevermind.. *scrapes his shoes off*
Paul is certainly not a leopard sir, more closely related to a repentant sinner.., let's talk guns, equipment and parts just leave out the personal crap OK ? thank you.
That isn't possible.
What you're asking people to do is forget the fact that this guy is a known industry slimeball. Sorry, no. First of all I'm not going to reward him for his past behavior by purchasing one of his current products. Secondly, based on that past behavior, I have NO faith in his ability to remain solvent, support said product, etc.
You cannot separate the man from the equipment. He's a "businessman" with horrendous business sense, little to no scruples or ethics, and I can assure you that I'll neither reward nor fall victim to his bad behavior, and will suggest to others that they avoid doing so themselves.
Littlelebowski
07-24-09, 06:36
Dude you have some serious hate for LWRC huh?
MarkM i certainly direct and a little unprofessional about it but after I criticized his remarks once, a person I respect contacted me via PM on this board and explained a lot about PLW and LWRC's conduct. Mark's pretty much right.
PLW pretended to be a serving SF officer, invented testing to make the LW system look good, bad mouthed any and all competitors. Worse he claimed to be an actual serving officer, who when contacted went ape shit, and IP addresses resolved back to the LW office and his computer.
After that, and his ejection from LWRCI, the fact that cat came back, is not going to be drawing a lot of favortism in any shooting community, especially with what looks like a VERY similar design to competitors that he was bashing a few years ago.
Parabellum9x19mm
07-24-09, 07:29
this newest M4 type carbine is in my OPINION, so far is the best idea/concept in breaking away from the traditional manufacture of these type weapons. from the reports i have been privy to, i am amazed at the simplicity of a once complex system, as can be seen in this one minute video the upper can be disassembled in seconds without tools..,
do you know what's even more simple?
the OLD M4 type carbine
:rolleyes:
OldNavyGuy
07-24-09, 08:06
do you know what's even more simple?
the OLD M4 type carbine
:rolleyes:
i agree and what is even more simple is this
http://www.brasswithclass.com/images/cannon1.gif
Whether you agree or not the fact is that he behaved liked an idiot and his reputation has hurt any creativity he might have. I would venture to say that LWRC should have completely changed their name and distanced themselves from him totally, which they didn't do entirely. That is probably the reason why they still have their detractors. People temd to remember all that bad things that someone does and very little of the good.
He is also reinventing the wheel at this point which also isn't going to pull a bunch of people into his corner either. YMMV.
i agree and what is even more simple is this
http://www.brasswithclass.com/images/cannon1.gif
OldNavyGuy
07-24-09, 08:32
PLEASE, stop the criticism of the man and think about yourself for a moment, you never made a mistake or made a monumental screw up ? have you personally been hurt, injured or suffered in any way from what happened in the past, try looking at it like the military does, the Devil could invent a better system and when proven superior to all others, they would buy it.
for those "Christians" who "hate" Paul for what ever reason, THINK !!
Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged!
and
Let He Who is Without Sin Cast the First Stone
now that, that is out of the way, let's concentrate on guns, equipment and parts.., OK ?
Parabellum9x19mm
07-24-09, 08:52
for those "Christians" who "hate" Paul for what ever reason, THINK !!
i'm not a christian, save your sanctimony
RogerinTPA
07-24-09, 09:02
PLEASE, stop the criticism of the man and think about yourself for a moment, you never made a mistake or made a monumental screw up ? have you personally been hurt, injured or suffered in any way from what happened in the past, try looking at it like the military does, the Devil could invent a better system and when proven superior to all others, they would buy it.
for those "Christians" who "hate" Paul for what ever reason, THINK !!
now that, that is out of the way, let's concentrate on guns, equipment and parts.., OK ?
Although I have no knowledge of this individual's antics, other than what I've read here, for me, once a person or business, uses unscrupulous/underhanded conduct and compromises their integrity (show their ass on a regular basis, then lie about their product and their background), most folks are done with them.
Forgiveness? If you're a toddler? OK. Found God?, OK. Grown ass man with a known history for misconduct? Not OK.
1st time, a mistake. 2nd time, coincidence. 3rd time, a TREND.;)
OldNavyGuy
07-24-09, 09:06
That isn't possible.
What you're asking people to do is forget the fact that this guy is a known industry slimeball. Sorry, no. First of all I'm not going to reward him for his past behavior by purchasing one of his current products. Secondly, based on that past behavior, I have NO faith in his ability to remain solvent, support said product, etc.
You cannot separate the man from the equipment. He's a "businessman" with horrendous business sense, little to no scruples or ethics, and I can assure you that I'll neither reward nor fall victim to his bad behavior, and will suggest to others that they avoid doing so themselves.
no sir, what i am asking people to do is, Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged!
and
Let He Who is Without Sin Cast the First Stone
i am extremely happy that the hate faction on this forum and TOS's is such a tiny faction of the gun loving community, there are many millions of folks who will look at the product and know nothing about the history of the man, therefore the Leitner-Wise Defense will be successful in spite of the localized "HATE".
Littlelebowski
07-24-09, 09:20
Please run it hard, ONG. Looking forward to the range report.
Please run it hard, ONG. Looking forward to the range report.
agreed, i'm bowing out of this until i see ong's rr
just leave out the personal crap OK ? thank you.
You spoke to the man's personality, thereby opening the door to commentary about a history of lack of integrity. And, since said lack of integrity ties in directly with firearms design and what amounts to an attempt to defraud America's warfighters, it's doubly pertinent. You opened the door, now you want to shut it as a result of being taken in by a charlatan?
You may feel pissy at your leisure, but don't get pissy just because people here are aware of a different side of the man than you are, or are kidding yourself does not exist. Nobody here has to take your word for it that he's as pure as Lancelot, nor do you have to take anybody's that he's a freakin' weasel.
"...forget the past..." my bleeding piles. Remember the past, lest you repeat it. Remember that you typed that if you ever admonish anybody to remember fallen veterans on Memorial Day, and dwell on the definition of the word "hypocrisy."
...the Military is "very interested in this weapon".
I'm extremely doubtful. They have so many piston designs available now, that I highly doubt they would venture anywhere near an impostor's company with an RFP.
I do not see anything offered from this company that is not available from honorable people and companies.
Steel_Weasel
07-24-09, 11:43
and your knowledge of this is exactly what & how, personal first hand or second hand gossip ? am knowledgeable of some of his infractions, but as i said. forget the person and concentrate on the product, thank you.
Ask Paul why he came to America from GB. Seperate the person from the product ? As previously stated his history is so bad it's virtually impossible.
John_Wayne777
07-24-09, 22:57
[B]PLEASE, stop the criticism of the man and think about yourself for a moment, you never made a mistake or made a monumental screw up ?
There is a distinct difference between a "mistake" and a clear pattern of behavior.
...like showing up on a forum with yet another shill account to push his products. That's enough of that.
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