How fast is fast enough?

[PA PATRIOT]

I have visited a good number of well visited Disaster Preparedness forums and found a common theme that seems to be lacking in all the the related topics. Most will happily post pictures of mass stores of food, ammo and firearms that looks like it would take a very long period of time to mobilize if one had to bug out.

Now hopefully we should have some warning when the SHTF but I have to wonder with terrorist nations cooking up crude nukes and viral disease that your warning time could go from a few hours to BUG out now if you want to live.

So the question is does most here have two sets of BUG out gear, one for "Bugging In" and the "Fly Out the Door version". I would guess the fly out the door version would not be bases on stored items from the "BUG IN" version and both would be stored separately to reduce the access and loading time if one have to "BUG OUT" on the run.

So How fast can you run and gun if needed?

[RFB]

If the warning is public, you will be a competitor with other refugees, which is a very poor second choice. Since you are serious about the issue (benefit of the doubt to you), moving your loved ones outside of whatever you consider as your danger zone and then you commuting (even if you have to sleep in a camper for a 4x10 duty cycle) might be more advisable.

[Mac5.56]

Our "short term bug out" is in the back of the car, and will never not be there. It is more an immediate survival kit, but we could survive for several weeks using it and some basic knowledge. Funny thing is I never thought to not have this kit, as it was designed by my father and other roughnecks to survive cold winter nights in the Red Dessert when their work trucks broke down on dirt roads in the middle of nowhere.

I've added to it since leaving the state though. Two gas/particulate respirators, a small backpacking tent, and the first aid kit has been expanded so it can treat non lethal chemical weapon attacks.

[rat31465]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26930

The above link is to a thread I started some months back after a Tornado tore the roof from my home...Pics are included and at the bottom of the first page is an assesment of my situation I wrote up.
I hope this helps to answer some of your questions.

[PA PATRIOT]

Here is a Blackhawk product that I found may assist others when a run and gun emergency occurs. It will hold four 30rd AR magazines and two pistol magazines and it has four belt keepers built in to secure the bandoleer. I found when properly sized to you body shape that the unit is very stable, quiet and instant available. I paid $33.00 at a local shop and it is also available with a single AR pouch with flanking pistol magazine pouches for a few dolors less.

http://www.blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-856-IMG1.jpeg

http://www.blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-855-IMG1.jpeg

For a side arm the fastest donning holster I found that has a retention device was the SERPA CQC which comes with a standard belt slide and large locking paddle. The paddle version is very stable once pushed onto your hip and I tested it by jumping on a trampoline and it stayed in place never pulling out of my waist band. I paid $35.00 at a local shop

http://www.blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-1145-IMG1.jpeg

http://www.blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-1142-IMG5.jpeg

I was able to run into my home and down to my safe, put on my soft/hard armor and ballistic helmet, throw on the bandoleer, place the holster with side arm on my hip and pick up the M-4 in under 90 seconds. My thinking is now that I can cover the home while the wife and kids load the bug out kit into the SUV and we can be on the road in under five minutes. I have the same set up for the wife so we are both on the same page ammo and magazine wise.

[Beat Trash]

I have visited a good number of well visited Disaster

So the question is does most here have two sets of BUG out gear, one for "Bugging In" and the "Fly Out the Door version". I would guess the fly out the door version would not be bases on stored items from the "BUG IN" version and both would be stored separately to reduce the access and loading time if one have to "BUG OUT" on the run.

So How fast can you run and gun if needed?

My Bo gear is preloaded in Rubbermade tubs. These are kept in the garage, and are numbered (on the outside) in the order they go in the truck. There is a laminated sketch as to how to load them, to get everything to fit.

I have two mixed 50 cans preloaded with 9mm, 5.56mm bandoleers and 6 loaded AR mags. These sit in the front of the ammo closet, with nothing ever on top of them. "Grab and Get" is the thinking here. Preloaded 8 mag chest rig and a 6 mag "bandoleer" from Eagle Industries sits on a shelf in the safe.

The goal is to be able to be on the road within 30 minutes of saying "Get". I am not planning on or dreaming of a "Road Warrior" senerio. If I felt the need to Bug Out, then it would be with a destination in mind, and things would have become untenable at my home. I would want to be able to get as much of a head start on the masses as possible. This would require NO last minute trips to Wal Mart, or the gas station. I keep enough gas on hand to top off the tanks, with enough extra to carry along for the trip. I figure on having at least 50% more fuel than I should need, to count for the Murphy factor.

To pre-stage gear is not hard. (Hint, if you are using rubbermade tubs, ect. do a dry run of loading the empty tubs to see exactly how everything would fit. This can be an eye opening experience. During a real BO would be a bad time to find out that the tubs don't quite fit in your vehicle.) Set up your stuff, inventory what is where, and do not go "Borrowing the **** from anywhere, thinking you'll put it back. The one thing you borrow and forget will be the first thing you absolutely need during a BO.

I assumed that the topic of this was being able to Bug Out in a hurry. If the OP merely is referring to how fast one can "Run and Gun" as to get into a gunfight, well, to each his own, but I'd suggest rethinking the logic of that one.

[PA PATRIOT]

I assumed that the topic of this was being able to Bug Out in a hurry. If the OP merely is referring to how fast one can "Run and Gun" as to get into a gunfight, well, to each his own, but I'd suggest rethinking the logic of that one.

The topic is how fast one can bug out of the home stead once the SHTF, since security should be priority #1 I only listed the BlackHawk gear as a way to gun up quickly so to cover your loading of the vehicle and then your route out of the hot zone. My Run and Gun comment was meant as to show hast in the process only. Evasion of a fight is always the best option but when one has to drive Thur a major urban area like the City of Philadelphia were a average of 400 murders and 3000 are shot every year God only knows what may occur during your evac when the unprepared wish to take what you have. I use the same Rubber Maid tubs as you do which are also numbered and loaded into the SUV a certain way as to be able to access items of need at the rear gate and not to forget a single tub.

[RFB]

If one is intent on the strategy of moving family and gear in an emergency (rather than pre-staging your family and commuting) then I would suggest pre-staging your load.

Something like this http://ezpulltrailers.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/20photo-used_cargo_trailer.jpg

already loaded, ready to hitch-up could save lots of time, since time was the original criterion.

[Beat Trash]

Phila PD,

I agree with your last post completely. As to the Blackhawk gear you listed, I have been using the 2-magazine "Rifle bandoleer" at work as a means to carry extra ammunition with my issued Patrol Rifle. I am very happy with the quality of this product, and for my needs while at work it's about perfect. I use the pistol pouches to hold a Surefire G2 light and a leatherman tool.

I am going to obtain a couple of the double pouches (4 AR mag models) to include in my SHTF gear.


RFB , am I see things correctly in your photo? Is that a golf cart in front of the trailer?

In all seriousness, the idea of a preloaded trailer is the fastest route. Do you have any concerns about pulling a trailer during the congested traffic you would encounter during a mass exit resulting from a major SHTF incident?

[PA PATRIOT]

One thing we do use is a small car top carrier which clamps on the roof rack and is ready to go in under a minute. We store only light weight items inside the carrier so even the wife and one of the kids can push it up and lock it in. I think we picked it up in 2005 at Pep-Boys for about $100.00 and its waterproof and low profile. My SUV has the 3rd row folded seat which is great if I had to take another two or three people but it puts a serious hurt on available storage inside the vehicle. I was looking at a small two wheeled enclosed trailer that would equal the inside storage of my vehicle as a added option. This is not a full size trailer as shown in a earlier post but about a 1/3 sized version of it.

[PA PATRIOT]

Here is the trailer I'm looking at, the dealer can add a lift off hard top as part of a cash deal. Price is under $700.00 OTD

http://www.sportutilitytrailers.com/img/products/TS48BX.jpg

I was going to add this plastic storage to the front of the trailer to store and conceal plastic gas cans.

http://www.discount-trailers.com/images2/multi-purpose-storage-box.jpg

[RFB]

Beat, It appears to be but it is just an old file photo, not mine. I already live in East Moose Nipple.


Philly,

Good thinking; just massage your ideas. Don't forget a lightweight floor jack (they make some nice aluminum ones) and a 12volt impact wrench loaded last in. Makes changing flats much quicker when time is a criteria.

You will also want to think about your tripwire: what is the thing that will make you hit the klaxon and scramble. Then choreograph it like a fire drill.

[6933]

Don't forget to have a plan for an EMP strike. That means the majority of anything with a circuit in it will not work. 1960's car, yes, past that, most likely not. No cell phones, no radios, no tv's, no electric fuel pumps, nothing with a circuit. Don't forget this scenario. I think I've convinced the wife of the need for an older(in shape) truck that can pull a trailer. Look into Faraday cages for protection.

[Beat Trash]

You will also want to think about your tripwire: what is the thing that will make you hit the klaxon and scramble. Then choreograph it like a fire drill.

I think this is one of the most important planning issues when dealing with the topic of Bugging Out. The farther you are ahead of the curve as it relates to everyone else bugging out and "beating the mad rush", the better.

Practicing your bug out drill, like a fire drill is a wise thing to do. It will show areas that may be in need of a little tweaking.

[The_War_Wagon]

I'm 4 miles from downtown, in PA's other 'blue anchor,' so a public evacuaton (dirty bomb discovered, anthrax released, inbound nuke, F12 tornado bearing down, etc.), means we're pretty much boned, and will attempt to survive the bug-in.

I do have a big 4x4 ('THE War Wagon' - my '92 Dodge Ramcharger that's been restored and upgraded), which already has BoB's (wife & 4 kids have to come, too!) stowed in it - my rifle bags weigh a TON, but that's only because they're STUFFED with loaded mags, too. The bigger, tougher, older truck, will push through a lot more post-apocalyptic clutter, IF we survive the bug-IN. That's the game plan, anyways...

[mr.scott]

Honestly, all I need to bug out is my side arm and a rifle. I can toss all the loaded mags in a backpack and go. The advatage is I can move with little cumberence because I'm not carrying water or food. The fact that I have guns means I can secure the items I need when the time comes.
It may be a dickhole-ish way of doing it, but mobility is key in bugging out.

[PA PATRIOT]

Honestly, all I need to bug out is my side arm and a rifle. I can toss all the loaded mags in a backpack and go. The advatage is I can move with little cumberence because I'm not carrying water or food. The fact that I have guns means I can secure the items I need when the time comes.
It may be a dickhole-ish way of doing it, but mobility is key in bugging out.

Very Dickhole-ish, why be so lazy? Plan a sensible bug out pack and make your way to a safe area of your choice. Since everyone will most likely be packing you have more of a chance of being wasted trying to rob someone then dieing from the SHTF event itself. This kind of thinking is for toads.

[Irish]

Honestly, all I need to bug out is my side arm and a rifle. I can toss all the loaded mags in a backpack and go. The advatage is I can move with little cumberence because I'm not carrying water or food. The fact that I have guns means I can secure the items I need when the time comes.
It may be a dickhole-ish way of doing it, but mobility is key in bugging out.

Really?!?! You're plainly admitting to being a POS low-life criminal preying on those weaker than you... forum rules dictate that I don't verbally attack you and since that is the case I can only hope that you try some stupid shit like that on somebody who is prepared one day.

[Beat Trash]

Honestly, all I need to bug out is my side arm and a rifle. I can toss all the loaded mags in a backpack and go. The advatage is I can move with little cumberence because I'm not carrying water or food. The fact that I have guns means I can secure the items I need when the time comes.
It may be a dickhole-ish way of doing it, but mobility is key in bugging out.

I would hope and pray that you jest.

I have to assume you do not.

One of the main reasons many people on sites such as this plan ahead is to be prepared to deal with emergencies, and the aftermath of emergencies. Call it SHTF, hurricane, riots, terrorist event, whatever.

The "I have a gun, therefore I will be able to loot, rape, pillage, and plunder at will" line of thought might work. Until that individual goes against another like minded individual who feels the need to relieve him of his gun and the supplies he worked so hard to pillage.

My personal plans revolve around maintaining a low profile during a SHTF event. I hope to be able to Bug In for about 1-2 weeks. This will give the "animals" out there enough time to thin themselves out.

But make no mistake, while I have no intention of "looking for trouble", I have the equipment, skills, and 27 years of training and experience to be able to protect myself and my family against those who feel they no longer have to conform to societies rules. DO NOT assume that just because you happen to own a firearm, you are the only one who is armed.

Among my friends we have a name for people with this type of mind set, we call them "Threats", and they will be dealt with accordingly...

Oh, yea, if forced to Bug Out, I could be very mobile without having to loot and kill to get my supplies. It's called a "Bug Out Bag". One uses it to leave the affected area, not to hang around looking for victims to attack.

[mr.scott]

I would hope and pray that you jest.

I have to assume you do not.

One of the main reasons many people on sites such as this plan ahead is to be prepared to deal with emergencies, and the aftermath of emergencies. Call it SHTF, hurricane, riots, terrorist event, whatever.

The "I have a gun, therefore I will be able to loot, rape, pillage, and plunder at will" line of thought might work. Until that individual goes against another like minded individual who feels the need to relieve him of his gun and the supplies he worked so hard to pillage.

My personal plans revolve around maintaining a low profile during a SHTF event. I hope to be able to Bug In for about 1-2 weeks. This will give the "animals" out there enough time to thin themselves out.

But make no mistake, while I have no intention of "looking for trouble", I have the equipment, skills, and 27 years of training and experience to be able to protect myself and my family against those who feel they no longer have to conform to societies rules. DO NOT assume that just because you happen to own a firearm, you are the only one who is armed.

Among my friends we have a name for people with this type of mind set, we call them "Threats", and they will be dealt with accordingly...

Oh, yea, if forced to Bug Out, I could be very mobile without having to loot and kill to get my supplies. It's called a "Bug Out Bag". One uses it to leave the affected area, not to hang around looking for victims to attack.

See it as you want, but I don't consider hurricanes, tornados or Earthquakes SHTF. Don't get me wrong, those are bad, but recoverable from. It might take a week for assistance to come at the worst, but I have enough food and bottled water in the house to supply my family.
My definition of SHTF is a total breakdown of society and governmental service. Nuclear War, Zombie invasion ect. Great you guys have bug out bags with 1-2 weeks of supplies, what are you going to do when your supplies run out? Dollars will be worthless then. How do you propose you are going to get the supplies you need?
I'm in a large metropolitan area, but I can make it in a few days on foot to areas with rivers, streams and deer and can get food that way, but I'm not going to jump on the moral high horse that so many online seem to do and I'll state that me and my family come before anyone else and I'll do what I have to do at the time to make sure we survive. IF I have to kill someone for their supplies, then that's what's going to happen. I'd rather not have to do it and just rob them, but I'm being real.
In a real SHTF scenario it's every man for himself or if you can form a group even better, but you will need to secure food/supplies. You will have to do some damn distastefull things if you want to survive.

[6933]

I consider myself, and wife, well prepared; from upcoming training to heirloom seeds to start crops, to family land way, way back in the mtns. The most distasteful thing I may have to do is kill someone trying to rob me or that even conducts themselves in a shady(sinister) manner in a SHTF situation. Someone that plans to steal/rob/plunder will eventually get taken out by the truly prepared. A plan to take what you need is not a plan, it's an eventual death sentence. I only say this so that everyone really thinks this plan through in a SHTF world. Cooperation and isolation are the way to go.

[mr.scott]

Small communities of around 100 people are what will be needed for long term survival, along with ample farm land.

If you are willing to kill someone for being "shady" you are no better than that person. In the end you are both just trying to survive. There are different methods to this just like there are different methods to everything in life. You may not approve of anothers methods but it does not mean they can not be just as effective or more so than yours.

[6933]

mr.scott-I put sinister behind shady to clarify my remark. If your criteria is effectiveness, you are correct. I feel I can be effective and moral. I do not consider robbery to be moral under any circumstances, therefore I will prepare so that I am not in that situation. If someone's morality is such that robbery is considered okay, then I simply say that that person will eventually be taken out by someone that does not consider it moral. In times of crisis, looting/robbery/brigandage is usually, eventually, punished with death.

[mr.scott]

mr.scott-I put sinister behind shady to clarify my remark. If your criteria is effectiveness, you are correct. I feel I can be effective and moral. I do not consider robbery to be moral under any circumstances, therefore I will prepare so that I am not in that situation. If someone's morality is such that robbery is considered okay, then I simply say that that person will eventually be taken out by someone that does not consider it moral. In times of crisis, looting/robbery/brigandage is usually, eventually, punished with death.

So it would be immoral for a man to steal food to feed his children? If he had no other option, IE SHTF he's a liberal. He stocked up on supplies and got robbed, now has no supplies but has a family/children to feed. Morally, he should do whatever it takes to keep his family alive.

(This is not directed at anyone)
Morals are a tricky thing. You really can't have them set in stone. Morally, killing is bad. but we put stipulations on it like, well if the person is going to do harm to me, or he's a convicted murder, he should get the death penalty.
Being ardently stringent to your morals only allows for you to be trapped in a conundrum at some point. Be the moral high man of the internet, or do what it takes to survive? You'll find when it comes time to survive, your natural instincts will overpower your morals every single time and you will do what is actionably necissary at the time to ensure your survival.

Forgive any typo's ect, I'm posting from my BB.

[6933]

mr.scott-I must respectfully disagree. For me morals do not change when situations change. Morals are set in stone; for me and many others. Robbing to feed your family is wrong. Would you be okay with someone robbing you to feed their family? I went through a terrible hurricane while living on St. Maarten and I was in NOLA for Katrina(wife in Residency). I had to make many decisions during these events and I made them according to my morals. This lead to me not being as comfortable as I could have been. Comfortable meaning many things here. Killing is not immoral. Murder is.

"It's all relative" does not apply to morals. For me, and for many others. However, I realize my morals apply only to me and not to you. We simply would conduct ourselves differently. In other words, we must agree to disagree. No problem. My point is that when considering long term survival, in the end, whatever society that exists, has taken a dim view of robbery and looting. This usually led to the perp. being shot. In the long run, robbery will actually reduce your chances of surviving because someone will most likely make you pay for it, eventually.

[mr.scott]

That's a load of horse stuff. So you say you'd let your family die before you took a piece of bread.
All you have to do is look at 3rd world sh!t holes to see that morals do not keep one alive.
And with that, I'm done with this thread and the morally superior types.

[6933]

It's a load of horse stuff to someone that can't understand what morals are and that doesn't live by them. I'm sure it was perplexing to you. I've been there, lived by them, and made it. So have millions of others. Crime was quite low during the great potato famines, almost non-existent in Appalachia during rough times, and in the siege of Leningrad, with many starving, crime-as in robbery to feed themselves-was almost unheard of.

So, no, it's not horse stuff. I say someone like you will be the first to go when you convince yourself your actions are okay, and someone dispatches you.

I also carried a nice tone during my post and you reply with horse stuff and storm off. Tells everyone all they need to know about you. You would probably be happier at TOS where someone will not question your logical fallacies.

[ZDL]

So it would be immoral for a man to steal food to feed his children? If he had no other option, IE SHTF he's a liberal. He stocked up on supplies and got robbed, now has no supplies but has a family/children to feed. Morally, he should do whatever it takes to keep his family alive.

(This is not directed at anyone)
Morals are a tricky thing. You really can't have them set in stone. Morally, killing is bad. but we put stipulations on it like, well if the person is going to do harm to me, or he's a convicted murder, he should get the death penalty.
Being ardently stringent to your morals only allows for you to be trapped in a conundrum at some point. Be the moral high man of the internet, or do what it takes to survive? You'll find when it comes time to survive, your natural instincts will overpower your morals every single time and you will do what is actionably necissary at the time to ensure your survival.

Forgive any typo's ect, I'm posting from my BB.

ehhhhh. Stop.

You are confusing morals and ethics.

It is unethical to purposely not prepare for a disaster and instead have the plan of stealing from and/or killing others.

You are espousing some ignorant and contradictory sentiments.

No man here is stating they wouldn't do what it took to survive and in a situation as described, it would be the lesser of 2 evils many times. To plan to steal or murder someone because you knowingly chose to no prepare is, immoral. Executing that plan would be, unethical.

What happens when you run across an M4C member and you attempt steal their shit? There are people out there far more bad ass than you. :cool: And when you meet these people and attempt to rob them, you will be only be a source of ammo for them when they are finished.

Also, I don't buy the "only a town of 100 people will survive" mantra. Between my land, family, and friends who have the coordinates - their skills, supplies, and equipment, we will do just fine.

I'm not looking to argue or even discuss these points. You are missing the boat here and I encourage you to take a look at that as a real possibility. Good luck.

[RFB]

Mr. Scott,

Killing someone to take what they have because you want it (regardless of your perceived "need"), is murder. You can rationalize it however you want; it does not excuse it.

Advocating murder is far from what the others on this board are suggesting.

I respect Philly and Beat. You Mr. Scott are out of line.

[PA PATRIOT]

I hate to say it but Mr.Scott reminds me of the Crack Heads I deal with on a daily basis on the streets of Philadelphia. He does as they do "Justify" evil acts to satisfy his own needs and the blatant lack of moral character both show in their words or conduct is what currently is destroying society as a whole. Mr.Scott will buy guns, ammo, magazines and support gear not to defend but to rob and pillage from those who may not be able to defend them selfs. My wife wonders why I train so hard and attend advanced tactics classes with the spare money I manage so save here and there. Mr.Scott is the reason.

[PACKINHEAT]

I am not completely convinced that speed is always the end all answer. Not that being prepared to execute a well thought out plan quickly is the wrong answer either.

In a no BS SHTF scenario it is likely that many people will attempt to flee the area in haste creating huge problems on the roads and highways. I personally plan for the worse and plan on being able to protect my family from my home or vehicle until I can develop a plan or have the ability to safely and securely "bug out" to safety.

I plan on runs on water and food like we have seen during natural disasters, and complete sell out of commercial protective equipment generally seen during volcano eruptions and mudslides. Things like micron water filters and MREs are a must along with a good store of canned and dehydrated items. These items partner well with a couple rifles and pistols in common calibers and plenty of ammo.

The ability to defend self and loved ones from a strong point or transport yourself and family to that well fortified defensive position is the key in my opinion. You can plan deliberate actions from your "castle" and make much more informed decisions in a permissive environment.

EMP strikes would wreak havoc on our modern society. The general populace would not understand what has happened and without their TV sets or computers and cell phones the nation would be thrust into chaos.

Those of us who have chosen to prepare for the worst would likely be quickly targeted by those who have not. Use your training and skills to position yourself in a place you can survive and defend. Hope for the best but expect the worse. A reliable and capable 4x4 coupled with planning, and a defensive weapons posture would go far in my opinion.

Police and Military will probably not take kindly to everyone running around brandishing an assault rifle and a chest rig/Body Armor. I would definitely be worried about Blue on Blue with LEOs. The last thing we would need is the good guys in a gun fight with the good guys.
I have giant zombie hating Mastiffs, Got that avenue covered, unless they turn………. :D

[6933]

I carried openly(CETME) in NOLA after Katrina and the NOPD and Jefferson Parish Deputies gave you the once over in judgment. I never had a problem going through many roadblocks. Idiots shooting at LE and helicopters had problems. I did have issues with out of area LE that manned roadblocks, but they deferred to local LE and the issue went away. I always thought that was professional of them and actually demonstrated intelligence and common sense.

Parts of the 82nd were down in NOLA and they used common sense as well. Myself and the only other guy left in our neighborhood posted up every day at opposite ends of the block to show there were armed people there. Mil that came by waved, or dropped off water and talked to us. We stayed out of sight most of the time,(didn't think it was wise considering what was going on to be out in the open) but our signs about shooting looters and our every so often presence kept the area safe except for one incident. It also helped that Jeff. Parish Sheriff Harry Lee made it clear on the radio many times that citizens had the right to shoot people that crossed onto their property without permission. I think this was okayed under martial law and was how he could issue these statements. My neighbor had a bullhorn that he regularly made announcements to the looters literally across the canal that they would be shot if they crossed into our "territory." Every morning they spread out and looted stores in the area for about a week. At night, most people, looters included, locked themselves indoors and sat around armed if they could. Looting mainly was confined to stores.

We were lucky in that two sides of our block backed up to canals with high fences. I liked "patrolling" b/c it allowed me to get out of a mold filled house. Within 2 days, the house had mold growing. It was unbelievable. Lots of stories, not enough space.:p

[PACKINHEAT]

I carried openly(CETME) in NOLA after Katrina and the NOPD and Jefferson Parish Deputies gave you the once over in judgment. I never had a problem going through many roadblocks. Idiots shooting at LE and helicopters had problems. I did have issues with out of area LE that manned roadblocks, but they deferred to local LE and the issue went away. I always thought that was professional of them and actually demonstrated intelligence and common sense.

Parts of the 82nd were down in NOLA and they used common sense as well. Myself and the only other guy left in our neighborhood posted up every day at opposite ends of the block to show there were armed people there. Mil that came by waved, or dropped off water and talked to us. We stayed out of sight most of the time,(didn't think it was wise considering what was going on to be out in the open) but our signs about shooting looters and our every so often presence kept the area safe except for one incident. It also helped that Jeff. Parish Sheriff Harry Lee made it clear on the radio many times that citizens had the right to shoot people that crossed onto their property without permission. I think this was okayed under martial law and was how he could issue these statements. My neighbor had a bullhorn that he regularly made announcements to the looters literally across the canal that they would be shot if they crossed into our "territory." Every morning they spread out and looted stores in the area for about a week. At night, most people, looters included, locked themselves indoors and sat around armed if they could. Looting mainly was confined to stores.

We were lucky in that two sides of our block backed up to canals with high fences. I liked "patrolling" b/c it allowed me to get out of a mold filled house. Within 2 days, the house had mold growing. It was unbelievable. Lots of stories, not enough space.:p


Good to hear that the guys had the common sense following the unfortunate events. Some of my buddies were helping out with the emergency extractions and had stories about armed folks and people shooting at the birds.

I know most professionals can recognize the difference between the good guys and bad guys, I have always just worried about my family paying the price for someone else's poor judgement. I do worry because I am a big guy with a bunch of Tattoos, so I am sure most LEOs see an outlaw biker, not a military professional, thats always been my concern. That whole act responsibly thing does generally go a long way those who protect us at home.

Its nice to hear a sucess story once in a while. Too often we only hear about the looters or armed criminals causing problems. I often wonder about all the folks we see on these boards (I am new to M4C, but recognize tons of screen names) and remember some of their locations. Wonder if they had any sucess in defending themselves and their families during those rough times.

Nice to hear that the LEOs understood the situation and allowed the "grey area" to exist and our citizens to defend themselves and their property.

[K.L. Davis]

I let this run on for a while, simply as a reminder to the majority of the M4C members that there are some people out there that are seriously loose gear.

mr. scott - please check you personal messages.