View Full Version : .223 match ammo question
I need some help guys; I’ve just about got my Douglas barrel broken in, and I want to know, what is a good “out of the box” (Black Hills, Federal Premium Gold Medal, Remington Premier Match, Hornady Match, etc.) Match round for an 8 twist 16” barrel. I’m only looking for something to use as a baseline @ 100yds. I might progress to hand loads, but only after I find a weight that the rifle likes.
CLE has told me that I should be safe to 80gr, but I’m not sure that’s a good place to start; heavy that is.
The barrel is stainless with a Wylde Chamber.
Thanks in advance for your comments.;)
The 1/8 barrel is good for bullets up to about 80gr. An 80gr will not load to magazine length and will have to be loaded one at a time. Same thing for the 75gr Hornady A-Max's. If you are looking for factory ammo try Blackhills and Hornady ammo. You will just have to try shooting different grain bullets to see what your gun likes best. I have a RRA Predator Pursuit that has a 20" SS 1/8 Wylde barrel and it even shoots the cheap Remington UMC 45gr JHP at less then a half inch.
Smuckatelli
07-23-09, 10:48
Black Hills 77gr match is the main round that they use at the matches that my daughter has attended. She used a Colt 6920 (with an A2 stock) last June, good performance on the 200, 300, and 600yd lines. She went through a case of BH "seconds" with no malfunctions.
Last week she broke in her RRA NMA4 (Wylde barrel, 20", 1/8) during the matches at Quantico. Same results with the Black Hills 77gr. She's taking a case of BH remanufactured with her to Perry next week.
Many of the shooters use 80gr on the 600yrd line with thier 1/8 barrels. The competitors that have a 1/1.75 or 1/7 barrel are pushing 82gr out the barrels on the 600yd line.
I recommend starting out with Black Hills 77gr match and working down from there. I'm thinking that you'll end up likeing the 77gr.
As RemMan pointed out, when you go to 80gr, you are individually loading each round due to the length of the bullet.
My experience with Black Hills was nothing short of fantastic; highly recommended.
my 1x8 .223 groups both the 77gr Federal and blackhills very well...
I have a CLE service rifle upper with the .223 SAAMI chamber. I've fired every Black Hills load through my upper, and while the POI changes with each load, they are all equally accurate. I can tell you for a fact that the 75gr Hornady A-Max can be loaded for magazine length feeding. Back whan it was available, there was a guy in NJ that was selling a Hornady factory reload with the 75gr A-max bullet. I shot 2k rounds of that ammo across the course. I found it a bit more accurate than the Black Hills, but since you can't get it any more it's a moot point.
The 1/8 barrel is good for bullets up to about 80gr. An 80gr will not load to magazine length and will have to be loaded one at a time. Same thing for the 75gr Hornady A-Max's.
I had CLE make my 16.5" Douglas( 1n7, 5.56 chamber) for the AR, it's a full profile to the gas block(pinned Vltor) and .750 the rest of the way.
Anyhow, I tried some BH blue box 69 grain and some Winchster 69 grain match, both hovered between .5-.6 at 100.
I hand loaded some 77 SMK's under various charges of Benchmark and 22.6 grains at 2.260 was the best at .3-.5 at 100(used bipod and rear bag) the average velocity was 2650, no pressure issues, 22.8 was max.
I tried H4895, it was ok,.75-1" early pressure signs. I want to try some Varget and BLC-2 when it's around so I can have some recipies.
Mark
Tough to beat BHA...recommended.
Try the 52gr Match HP, 68 OTM, 75 and 77s OTM/HP and Bergers. The 75gr Berger is outstanding in my LT Stealth (1/8).
Welcome UGASeven,
I have been looking around for an "out of the box" match load myself. I will make a suggestion, if you search through past Threads/ Posts by "Molon" you will find a great deal of information regarding match or OTM type loadings and bullets. You may have already done this but if you haven't then the information may be useful to you.
Molon has reviewed and/ or evaluated the majority of the heavier grain (75-77)Open Tip Match (OTM) loads available in .223/ 5.56. The reviews posted are thorough and detailed, including pics. I.E., Loads include: Black Hills, Hornandy, Buffalo Bore, Nosler, and Silver State Armory.
However, one problem that you may have is trying to actually find some of the loads in stock, especially the Black Hills (BH) 77 gr BTHP factory load, particularly the 5.56 version.
If you check MIDWAY they have a few match loads available in .223, so does Cabelas. -Midway listed a week ago that Buffalo Bore and Silver State Armory loadings using the Sierra 77 gr BTHP bullet were available, price is around $30/ 20 rounds.
Good Luck,
SkiDevil
P.S. Considering reloading is a good idea, because that may be the most reliable way to ensure your chosen load is available.
If you aren't handloading yet, check out the Corbon 77gr load since it uses Lapua brass. Be sure and save it for when you do reload as it is excellent.
Thanks guys, lots of good info, I have three boxes of ammo to try this weekend, Federal Gold match, BTHP 69gr
Remington Match BTHP 62gr & 77Gr.
Another friend recommended BH Match ammo also, butthole wouldn’t sell me any of the stuff he had though, I should have just clubbed him and ran off with his ammo can.:D
You should really consider reloading instead of shooting a lot of quality factory ammo. You can reload the same type of ammo for around $10-11 a box of 20, and that is if you do not even reuse the cases. So you can bang away high quality ammo for the same price as cheap factory ammo. Plus you will feel a great sense of pride knowing that you reloaded your own ammo and it is just as good if not better then the factory stuff.
Sierra 69gr matchking - .21
Winchester .223 brass - .22
powder - .08
primer - .04
Total = .55 each (probably could load a little cheaper depending on what you pay for powder or primers.)
box 20rnds = $11
box 50rnds = $27.50
box 100rnds = $55
Cabela's has BH 69gr matchkings for $47.99 for a box of 50. So you basically get two times the ammo for pretty much the same price if you only reload the case once. Your reloads will cost you $40 per 100rnds if you reload the case three times.
You should really consider reloading instead of shooting a lot of quality factory ammo. You can reload the same type of ammo for around $10-11 a box of 20, and that is if you do not even reuse the cases. So you can bang away high quality ammo for the same price as cheap factory ammo. Plus you will feel a great sense of pride knowing that you reloaded your own ammo and it is just as good if not better then the factory stuff.
Sierra 69gr matchking - .21
Winchester .223 brass - .22
powder - .08
primer - .04
Total = .55 each (probably could load a little cheaper depending on what you pay for powder or primers.)
box 20rnds = $11
box 50rnds = $27.50
box 100rnds = $55
Cabela's has BH 69gr matchkings for $47.99 for a box of 50. So you basically get two times the ammo for pretty much the same price if you only reload the case once. Your reloads will cost you $40 per 100rnds if you reload the case three times.
I’m not sure I would trust myself doing hand loads; I am the “Bigger is better” type, I could just see myself, ok; it says 23gr of powder, so 46gr must be better!:D
I will progress to hand loads that a friend of mine will do for me, once I find a bullet weight the rifle likes. I’m just not sure the equipment investment would be worth while for me.
BTW what does good equp cost? dies, Press, etc?
I’m not sure I would trust myself doing hand loads; I am the “Bigger is better” type, I could just see myself, ok; it says 23gr of powder, so 46gr must be better!:D
A lot of guys think that way, I know I did. You have to start thinking that accuracy is better and usually the most accurate loads are not hot loads.
I’m not sure I would trust myself doing hand loads; I am the “Bigger is better” type, I could just see myself, ok; it says 23gr of powder, so 46gr must be better!:D
I will progress to hand loads that a friend of mine will do for me, once I find a bullet weight the rifle likes. I’m just not sure the equipment investment would be worth while for me.
BTW what does good equp cost? dies, Press, etc?
It does cost some money to get into it. I would say you could get most everything you need for around $400, but maybe cheaper.
I would say you need to start with a single stage or a turret press (which can be used like a single stage). Beginners should not start with a progressive press.
Probably one of the cheapest single stages you can get is the Lee Hand press for $38. My dad has one and it is easy to use and very small and portable. It would say the biggest rifle cartrige you would want to load on it would be a .308 or .30-06 since you have to hand squeeze the press to size the case. If you went with a bench mount single stage I would say the cheapest quality press you could get is the Lee Classic Cast press for $85. You cannot go wrong with that press or a RCBS Rockchucker, or Lyman Crusher for around $130. You can get the RCBS RockChucker Supreme Master Reloading kit for $290, and get most everything you need except for a few odds and ends. You will also need a tumbler which you can get one of those for $50. Dies vary in price and quality. Lee dies are not too bad and are around $25, and RCBS are like $30. Redding makes very good dies as well. You will also need some good reloading manuals. I suggest starting with the Lee and Lyman manuals. Cabelas also sells some caliber specific loading manuals that have a collection of data from many sources and they are like $6.
A lot of guys think that way, I know I did. You have to start thinking that accuracy is better and usually the most accurate loads are not hot loads.
Yep.. A lot of times slower loads are way more accurate then hot loads. Plus you also get a few more rounds out of your pound of powder by loading on the low end.
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