Almost had to draw on dogs last weekend [Archive]

Mac5.56

07-23-09, 13:01

kayaks are fun!

My fiance is a vet tech and her bubble with animals is a lot smaller then mine is (not to mention that she can take that 150 pound pit bull and make it stop moving in a flash of an eye, I call her my professional dog wrestler). We've had conversations about your situation (minus the water but with aggressive dogs), and given the nature of the animal, I would have no second thoughts about killing a dog that is aggressively charging me, and close enough to strike. And if it happened it would be the owners fault not mine.

Call me inhumane but we have both seen dog bites, and she has seen how quickly they can react and act when they decide to attack. My biggest pet peeve in the world is poor dog ownership, and lack of training.

(this of course excludes any circumstance in which the dog is on it's owners property)

montanadave

07-23-09, 13:30

And from my neck of the woods:

WOMAN SAYS SHE NEEDED 29 STITCHES AFTER CANINE TRIO LATCHED ONTO HER
Dog owner cited after boxer attack

DIANE COCHRAN Of The Gazette Staff | Posted: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 11:25 pm

A woman recovering from an attack by her neighbor's dogs, including one that apparently was not vaccinated against rabies, says other people in her Billings Heights neighborhood could be at risk.
Laurah Peron was preparing to spray her front stoop for bugs on the evening of July 6 when, she said, three boxers owned by her next-door neighbor attacked her. Peron lives on the 300 block of Laurie Lane.
She had her back turned when the animals charged. Two latched onto her left leg and one onto her right hand, she said.
"All of a sudden they were just on me," she said. "I was screaming at the top of my lungs."
Peron was standing at her front door but could not get inside because the door was locked. She had gone into her yard through an attached garage.
Her pair of sheltie dogs and a neighbor heard her screaming. The neighbor helped her into the garage as the three boxers attacked one of the shelties.
"If he wouldn't have come over, they would have killed me," Peron said.
After several false starts - the dogs kept tripping the automatic garage door's laser sensor, preventing it from closing - Peron and the neighbor managed to shut the animals out of the garage.
A second neighbor took her to the hospital, where she received 29 stitches in her leg and began undergoing a series of preventive rabies shots. Rabies cannot be detected until symptoms appear. By then, it is fatal.
Peron didn't realize until almost a week later that her dog had also been wounded. The wound had abscessed and needed attention from a veterinarian.
An animal control officer wrote nine tickets to the owner of the boxers, Leon Garcia. Garcia is scheduled to appear in Billings Municipal Court July 30.
Three of the tickets were for having a potentially dangerous dog. Each of those citations carries a maximum penalty of six months in jail and a $500 fine.
Three more tickets were for having a dog at large, two were for having an unlicensed dog and one was for failing to vaccinate a dog against rabies. Each of those citations carries a maximum $40 fine.
Animal Control also quarantined the dogs for 10 days to ensure they were not infected with rabies. Several rabid skunks have been captured or killed in the Heights this year.
All three dogs are back in the neighborhood, where children and older people live and could be at risk, Peron said.
Animal Control does not have the authority to confiscate or destroy pets, said the agency's supervisor, Dave Klein. Only a judge can order an animal to be destroyed, Klein said.
But Peron, who has nightmares about the attack and now carries bear spray with her when she leaves her house, doesn't want the boxers to be killed. She hopes their owner will build a more secure fence and maintain the animals' rabies vaccinations.
"I don't want to traumatize their kids," she said. "The dogs are part of their family just like my dogs are."
Contact Diane Cochran at dcochran@billingsgazette.com or 657-1287.

I'm from the "no bad dogs, just bad dog owners" school of thought but when a dog has demonstrated aggressive pack behavior or been trained to be aggressive without proper handling, it's "lights out" time. The dogs in this story are almost certain to attack again and the next victim might not be so fortunate, if you can consider getting 29 stitches "fortunate."

Mac5.56

07-23-09, 13:38

I honestly can't believe those dogs weren't put down! Especially the one without the rabies shot.

Here's a story from my childhood:

One of my best friends in high school was attacked when she was 4 by her neighbors German Shepherd. The dog bit her face and twisted ripping through her cheek completely in three places. After the attack she ran home.

Her mom bandaged her up to take her to the hospital, and her dad took his 1911 walked next door and in front of the owner shot the dog in the head. End of story.

Littlelebowski

07-23-09, 14:08

When you own a dog like that, there's certain things you have to watch out for and actively train out of the dog like fear/suspicion of strangers. Owning a German Shepherd is a bit more work than say a Lab that wants to be everybody's friend. However I find it very rewarding and I'm safe from the mechanized terror that prowls my lawn, trying to hurt me :)

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_0315.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_0316.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_0317.jpg

Cameron

07-23-09, 14:11

Unfortunately I had too shoot a couple of dogs a while ago. One was a German Shepard the other was a black Lab, ( I am a GS owner too, or at least I was at the time). I shot the GS once with a .308 FAL and the black lab needed two shots as he took off when I shot the GS and I only clipped him with the first shot, the second shot and he never moved again.

I had to go back and start working to free the horses from the fence, the two dogs had attacked the horses and driven them into the fence. I initially thought I was going to have to use the rifle on one of the horses two due to a broken leg, but it wasn't broken thank God. That horse is 27 now and I have owned him since he was 6...

The dogs started to look for an exit when I was running down the paddock, the GS stopped and actually sat when I told him to, so I shot him once in the chest, the lab took off running and I clipped him with a round through the back when he slowed and finished him with a round to the chest. I had tears in my eyes when I shot the lab the second time.

I turned an walked back to the horses thinking I was about to shoot my horse than I had for years...

I called the vet, the police and the owner of the dogs and told her to come to my place and collect their bodies and bring her cheque book to pay for my vet bill for the horses.

She arrived with the cops, hysterical and screaming. The cops gave her a tongue lashing and said she was to blame for her dogs deaths and liable for all my damages and expenses.

If only she had been a responsible owner.

My GS 12yrs old in this pic
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/cameron_personal/Misc/06090901Medium.jpg

My horse, 26yrs old in this pic, that survived that day with 160 odd stitches
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/cameron_personal/Misc/SamDec2007.jpg

Cameron

Irish

07-23-09, 14:16

The last 2 years we'd take our boat on Lake Mead and being how it's a National Park I wouldn't carry, until the end of last season. My wife and I were approached at the dock, while tying up our boat, by 4 drunk assholes determined to start a fight with me for an unknown reason.
I was lucky in the fact that nothing ended up happening other than me being threatened that "you're gonna get your ass kicked" and "next time you'll get shot". Ever since then I've carried my Maxpedition Remora on the boat with a few odds & ends that would discourage potential threats ;)
Just because you're on the water does not mean you're out of harm's way.

geminidglocker

07-23-09, 14:25

I almost had to shoot a Pitbull a few months ago while I was walking my dog. Lucky for the dog, the owner came out of the house to catch it. It wanted to get in a fight with my 4yr. old Husky/Samoyed mix. The owner noticed my hand on my hip-holstered weapon. Until he had control of his loose maniac dog, I kept my hand on my Glock. I've noticed that since that day the dog has always been on a leash or in the house. I beleive the pitbull is gone now since I havent seen it in about a month or so.

decodeddiesel

07-23-09, 14:32

As a result of my current living situation, the whole threat of dog attacks hits home with me very hard.

My wife and I along with our 1.5 month baby are renting a house in a nice suburban neighborhood of Denver. It's a very nice neighborhood, except for our neighbor. He's a younger male who lives alone except for his 100+ pound, un-neutered, un-registered Pitbull.

The dog spends most of it's time in the house, but often the owner will let the dog out into the fenced backyard unattended for hours (or even days at a time). Luckily the area is fenced, but it's only a 4 foot fence with minimal bracing.

Normally I wouldn't care, but I have witnessed the owner encouraging aggressive behavior in the dog by poking and prodding it with sticks, making it attack on command, etc. The dog is still fully intact, and the dog has demonstrated "nervous" and aggressive behavior around myself and my wife as well as our dog.

I have called animal control because this jack ass will open his garage door and let the dog run around the neighborhood unabated, and pitbulls are illegal in Denver County.

I had the dog approach me once while I was mowing the un-fenced front yard and got within 5 feet of me and hunched down into an aggressive posture snarling and growling at me. I put my hand under my shirt on my M&P9 and was ready to dispatch the dog when the owner came over and got a hold of him. He didn't even offer an apology nor did he admonish the dog, he just started walking off. I stopped him and told him in no uncertain terms that if that dog pulled that shit again, or if it threatened my wife, my dog, and especially my kid I would shoot it the next time I saw it. He looked at me and mumbled something about "Well he's just a dog" and went back to his house. :rolleyes:

My wife is a Vet-Tech and I am a huge animal lover. One of my best friends growing up had a pitbull and a rottweiler and they were friendly and awesome dogs. I do truly believe that there are no bad dogs, just bad owners. It's really a shame, but I insist my wife carries a loaded weapon with her every time she goes outside into our fenced backyard in case the animal jumps the fence.

decodeddiesel

07-23-09, 14:40

Unfortunately I had too shoot a couple of dogs a while ago...

Damn dude, that is tough. Nothing macho and cool about that, but you did what you had to do. A shame the dogs had to die, but at the same rate the owner is completely to blame, and you know it would have just happened again.

markm

07-23-09, 14:42

Trying out my new kayak on the river

What kind of yak?

I just bought my second boat. I was rowing with my ccw gun on Tuesday.

Cameron

07-23-09, 15:57

Damn dude, that is tough. Nothing macho and cool about that, but you did what you had to do. A shame the dogs had to die, but at the same rate the owner is completely to blame, and you know it would have just happened again.

Yeah it wasn't fun. I was more worried about my horse at first, but a lab and a GS are some of my favourite dogs. They had been on my property 4 times and attacked stock 3 times, and the owner had been warned 5 times. The moment I thought I could actually shoot them I did.

Had a bunch of other neighbours that had rotties, GS, even mastiffs and never had a problem because they were responsible and never let their dogs roam unattended. I actually used to let the neighbours walk their dogs on our property without any problems.

Cameron

bkb0000

07-23-09, 16:01

next to building/talking about/shooting ARs, kayaking is my favorite hobby. unfortunately, i haven't been on the water in over a year... seem like any time i get enough time to go to the range or hit the water, i opt for the range.

i rented a nighthawk 17 from the local yak shop for a long time, until i bought an old school long-style 13' whitewater kayak, built a skeg so it would track more like a sea kayak, and camo'd it out. still doesn't track that great in open water- i intend to build up a keel for it as well. it's mostly for creeks and streams, but there's about a mile of open water i have to cross to get from one creek to another in this area, and paddling a whitewater kayak with no keel or skeg/rudder across a mile of open water is no fun..

i, too, almost blew away my neighbors pit a couple of months ago. my wife took our oldest and youngest and left me with our 3 year old.. i was trying to get some work done, so i sent him into the front yard to play, so i could watch him from the big picture window in the family room. i heard him start screaming bloody murder- which is pretty common with this kid, so i didnt immediately react- i looked up and saw my neighbors' pit on top of him in our front lawn...

i had my pistol in hand and was out the door so fast i may have ****ed up the space/time continuum a little bit. the front door smashed into the coat rack on the wall behind it, making a pretty big ruccous, which scared the dog back over to its own yard- Hiram (my boy) was pretty much covered in slobber, but no injury that i could find. i know the dog is "friendly" and has never shown any indication of aggression whatsoever in the 2 years it's lived next door- but when it's on top of your 3 year old the only difference between a lick attack and a tear-his-throat-out attack is hindesight.

thank God it ran away before i got within range. the neighbors apologized profusely... i swear i'm gonna end up shooting that dog someday, and it'll be sad. but i'm not taking chances with my kids.

decodeddiesel

07-23-09, 16:23

i swear i'm gonna end up shooting that dog someday, and it'll be sad. but i'm not taking chances with my kids.

That's what it comes down to for me.

mattjmcd

07-23-09, 17:53

parishioner

07-23-09, 18:27

Glad you came out ok as well as the dogs. Your mobility is somewhat hindered in a kayak so its a good thing you had a weapon on you.

Last December, I was walking to my deer stand for an afternoon hunt when a pack of 3 mangy, ferocious looking dogs stepped out of the tree line about 35 yards ahead of me. As soon as they saw me, they started barking and began running full speed at me. I carry a .38 snubbie for things like this but the dogs were up on me within seconds and I didnt have enough time to draw my sidearm. It was primitive season so I was carrying a 45-70 single shot. When they were just about in striking distance I aimed the rifle the best I could at one of them (I still had the lens caps on)and shot. I missed but I guess the blast was enough to make them stop. I then grabbed my .38 in case they tried to attack again but they walked off. I got a better look at them then and you could tell their owner took horrible care of them. Very frightening situation.

Nathan_Bell

07-23-09, 19:49

Too many owners are morons and do not realize that they are creating 85 pound + liablility missiles with the way they handle their animals.

I have had to shoot well over a dozen dogs over the years when I was still on the farm. I had some white trash neighbors who thought you need at least a half a dozen big assed mongrels running around for a house to be a home. Luckily I was never bit and only lost one calf. Even though there was a couple times it was close to me getting bit or me losing stock.

Not realy a dog person anymore. I like them but really cannot feel that "they are a member of the family" connection that so many seem to. I tend to greet large dogs while looking for something to hit them and then their owners with.

m4fun

07-23-09, 20:13

Had this one about 2 mos ago. I live in what you can call your regular suburban, family and kid neighborhood(3-5 miles from NRA HQ). I am walking my 1 yr old and 13 yr old shelties(girls) with my 9 yr old daughter and 5 yr old son. I am carrying a concealed G19.

I am good about knowing my environment, hear a "NO, blah blah" behind me, a good bit behind me. Turn and this pitbull is tearing ass right at us, but close enough I cannot get in its way, totally runs over my 13 yr old sheltie on my left and starts to jump in front of me now toward my kids and sheltie puppy. I could only tackle it. I got my hands around its neck and pin the dog down to the ground by its collar. In my mind everything is going from my right arm is going to become chewed up raw meat and how can I grab my side arm with my left hand as it was holstered on my right side.

Well this pit was a "big" puppy. It was literally putty in my hands and stayed pinned down without resisting me at all. My adrenalin was up to my eye balls, my older dog was collecting herself, my kids had chased down and regained the leash of my puppy, this fat peice of work with his starbuck glasses and apple t-shirt come breathing heavy to me and the dog, leash in hands. Before I could say anything as this bafoon is profusly appologizing I see what would be his wife and two toddlers approx 30-40' behind him.

Honestly - I stayed quiet and didnt not say much. My agered expression said enough, I hope. In retrospect I would loved to question this guy about owning a pitbull with kids in the first place, or even recommend obedience training, etc.

Glad is ended like this since this could have gone bad in so many other ways, for my kids/dogs, arm or even what I would have done to that pit in front of this guys family.

randolph

07-23-09, 20:34

good to see more yakers here...

an event Ive done a few times and training for now.

www.coloradoriver100.com

trio

07-23-09, 20:34

you would have had to approach him for the mastiff to charge...i would have been stunned if the mastiff did anything except watch until you got within his "radar"...

my Bullmastiff is the same way...

i almost had a similar problem a year or so ago...

i was walking my bullie when a woman walking 2 pitbulls lost one of them and it started charging us...

I put Cooley (my bullmastiff) in the heel position (sitting at my left) and put my hand on my G17...

I then yelled to the woman that if the dog got within 15 yards of me I was going to draw....when it got to within 25 yards of me all I said was

"Cooley, release"

and my boy went ballistic...and the pit bull apparently realized he was charging a 150 pound dog that was clearly unhappy...and he stopped...

the woman bitched at me about threatening to shoot her dog....while I am quite sure Cooley would have won that fight, I DON'T want a member of my family hurt...nor the thousands in vet bills that ensue..

I just looked at her and said

"If I had had either of my sons with me I'd have started shooting at 30 yards and not stopped until your dog was dead"

and walked away...

rat31465

07-23-09, 20:46

One of my own encounters with Dog's.

I have come across as many as 6 running together while out hiking at Hercules Glade in Mark Twain Forest. I wasn't attacked but did feel like that they were a little to interested in me when they circled around me at about 20 yards away. I fired a couple of shots near them and they ran off. Interesting here to note that I was packing a Ruger Mk-II .22 LR Pistol that day.

I have no way of knowing if they were actually wild dogs or someone’s Coon Hounds...But, None wore collars and they didn't look mal-nourished so at the time I felt a couple of warning shots fired at the ground three feet behind one of them was my best course of action.
If any one of them had acted aggressively I wouldn't have hesitated to shoot as I had already positioned myself under a tree which would have been easy to climb.
I knew that I could have easily picked them off one by one if necessary sitting on one of its branches. I shot this little pistol alot and hunted squirrels with it frequently so I wasn't worried about being able to hit a dog with a well placed shot.
Plus I had two full magazines in my cargo pants pockets so had plenty of ammo on hand.

Mr.Goodtimes

07-23-09, 20:58

Mac5.56

07-23-09, 22:07

IMO, if we are realistic, the threat of attack and injury (or worse) from a dog is probably as high or higher than it is from the garden variety, 2-legged varmint. If you are out and about with small kids or your own dog(s) the potential for an incident is even higher. Again, just my .02.

I finally got a dog about 2 months ago, and have already had several close calls on walks around town.

Question for the group- I am living in a denied area and cannot CCW. Has anybody really seen a dog attack stopped by pepper spray or somesuch? I'd hate to rely on a edged weapon to fend off one or more aggressive dogs.

I've seen dog attacks stopped without guns yes. I also have seen very few actual dog "attacks". I honestly don't believe in CCW (oh my god TRY and shoot me if you want!). You can CCW all you want, but I don't need a gun to feel safe walking the streets of this country, and I have walked a lot of them. I feel completely secure with the combination of my experience and my automatic Benchmade. I have never felt a need to carry a pistol throughout my day to day life.

p.s. This statement in no way contradicts my above posts, or my support for the OP or anyone else's thought process regarding the dogs they encountered.

Bat Guano

07-24-09, 00:26

Just how did we get to where the behavior of ill-bred dogs (and people) is the norm? Even when people are endangered by aggressive dogs, the powers that be just avert their gaze and nothing of consequence happens.

Maybe I should have kept that Glock 17 because my county doesn't think they have a problem.

A sign of the times, I guess.

Jer

07-24-09, 00:58

Trying out my new kayak on the river, I see some rednecks (not the derogatory term) on a beach ahead with 2 pit bulls, a Mastiff (yes, I'm sure), and a yellow lab. Every dog except the Mastiff charges into the 3-4' water going nuts at the sight of me. The owner on the beach assures me that they don't bite. The dogs were within 4' of me, snarling and barking. I had my right hand out of sight on my G19 (16 rounds of 124gr Hornady TAP on tap to excuse a pun) but the owner distracted them with a stick.

Moral of the story? Pack heat and be prepared. The dogs certainly looked like they had no good intentions. Also, kayaks rock. Great fun and a good workout.

As I read this I had a flashback to last week. My wife and I have two Italian Greyhounds and for those not familiar they're like Greyhounds but the female is 14lbs and the male is 22lbs. Tiny little buggers. Any rate, I'm walking them w/o my wife last Friday night in our neighborhood because it's the male's 6th birthday so he's getting his birthday walk. I get to the other end of the neighborhood and there's a guy out front of a new house (new neighborhood with new construction) grilling. I guess his back yard (fenced) was broken. So, we're about 300' away when I saw them and they saw us. There were two dogs laying in the front yard and about that time they sprung up and charged us. The one was about a 70lb tan/white pitbull and the other was about a 100lb pit/lab mix and they were in a full on charge. The guy was yelling 'They won't hurt anyone I promise.' and all I could do was put myself (275lbs) in between them and my two little dogs and hope for the best. That dog was NOT coming over to say hi nicely and the funny thing is this was the ONE time I left my G26 at home. I never leave the house w/o it and that includes walking the dogs in our own neighborhood because we live in the foothills and you would be amazed at the wild life we have walking down the streets. Bottom line is had I had my Glock on me I may have shot that dog or possibly even both of them since I genuinely was worried for my safety and that of my dogs. I would have felt like shit because I love dogs and especially pits but the next thing I would have done would have been going over to hand the owner the beating of his life since it would have been his fault and not the dog's.

Kind of crazy though because I prepare mentally regularly for various situations where I may need to use my firearm but it always is a BG or multiple BGs in different situations. Never really thought about animals much but I guess I will have to start doing that now. It's too bad people can't just tie up their dogs so shit like this doesn't happen.

Jer

07-24-09, 00:59

I've seen dog attacks stopped without guns yes. I also have seen very few actual dog "attacks". I honestly don't believe in CCW (oh my god TRY and shoot me if you want!). You can CCW all you want, but I don't need a gun to feel safe walking the streets of this country, and I have walked a lot of them. I feel completely secure with the combination of my experience and my automatic Benchmade. I have never felt a need to carry a pistol throughout my day to day life.

p.s. This statement in no way contradicts my above posts, or my support for the OP or anyone else's thought process regarding the dogs they encountered.

I love people who feel that a Benchmade in the right hands can handle any situation. :rolleyes:

parishioner

07-24-09, 01:07

I love people who feel that a Benchmade in the right hands can handle any situation. :rolleyes:

He was probably waiting for that.

Littlelebowski

07-24-09, 06:20

im really suprised that a lab got really aggressive with you, thats not like them. Im also a little shocked that that lab was attacking camerons horse.

For what it's worth, every time I go to the dog park some of the most nippy (with other dogs) and moody dogs are the Labs while the pit bulls run around wanting to be everybody's friend.

As far Cameron's horse, you shouldn't be surprised there. Classic pack behavior.

Parabellum9x19mm

07-24-09, 06:24

a few years ago i got rushed by an escaped guard dog from an auto wrecking yard....i was able to get out of it without a weapon tho. a loud yell and a swift kick got me out of the jam.....i just backed away slowly after that.

now i try to always carry pepper spray as a bridge weapon. i had to pull my Mace on a dog once, but i got out of the situation without having to spray.

glad you got out of the situation with nobody & no canines got hurt, LL

jc75754

07-24-09, 06:53

I run in an urban area and now I always carry when I run. About a 1.5 mi into my run some Mexicans have pits in a fenced in area and would always go ape shit when I ran by on the side walk. One morning when I was running by one dog jumped the fence and came tearing ass after me. I was not carrying and somehow I grabbed the dog's leash and just started beating the dogs head with my fist. After the dog tried to turn away I let him go and he went and sat at the fence. How I was not bit I do not know, I think an angel was looking over me. I love dogs and felt horrible for hurting it but given the situation it was justified. I then calmly walked up to the owners house and banged on the door. When the man answered I explained that his dog tried to kill me it was some how turned into my fault for hurting his dog. I then ran to another house across the street and they had been getting ready for work and saw the whole thing and already called animal control and the police. The dog was sadly put down due to another persons ignorance and laziness. I did not press charges but I did explain if it happened again I would educate him on how dangerous the situation was. Fortunately the officer that spoke with him explained that he could be charged with criminal negligence had I pressed the issue or if I was harmed. After that the remaining pits were always chained up in the fence.

Outlander Systems

07-24-09, 07:26

I can't comment on LL's encounter; but it's spurned a thought.

I don't care how far down a river I get, no matter how remote I think I am, no matter what time of day, whenever I'm paddling a river, I almost universally see someone "fishing", who looks like they crawled out of "Escape From New York".

I seriously see the shadiest sons of bitches when I go river paddling. I swear to God, it's surreal. And they always have some wise-ass comment, most likely due to the fact that they're FUI.

Not a dog attack story, per se, but fun nonetheless:

When I was living in an apartment, I would take my Australian Shepherd for the occasional stroll. One afternoon I decided to take him around the complex for extra walking fun. On our way back to the apartment, two visciously wickedly mean-spirited ;) Chihuahuas came out from one of the breezeways, yapping like madness.

My dog was so frightened, so taken aback, that he pulled hard enough to snap his collar, and sprinted all the way back home.

So much for a furry bodyguard...

The Culprit:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/787/70819212.jpg

If I knew that I was going to have such a weenie, I'd have gotten a Dachshund. :p

Jay Cunningham

07-24-09, 07:32

I honestly don't believe in CCW (oh my god TRY and shoot me if you want!). You can CCW all you want, but I don't need a gun to feel safe walking the streets of this country, and I have walked a lot of them. I feel completely secure with the combination of my experience and my automatic Benchmade. I have never felt a need to carry a pistol throughout my day to day life.

:confused:

I honestly never thought I'd see a post like this here from one of our members...

Outlander Systems

07-24-09, 07:46

To the above quote from dmc: WTF, over?

Obviously your life experiences have been more pleasant than mine. Maybe I really am that ugly...

On the record, I not only believe in CC, I try my best to practice the faith, and live by those beliefs.

As an aside, I was under the impression that the best course to dispatch an attacking dog was to:

1) Remove shirt or jacket
2) Wrap arm in shirt or jacket
3) Present wrapped arm to attacking animal
4) Stab aggressor in the neck with knife

rat31465

07-24-09, 08:15

Outlander Systems

07-24-09, 08:20

Riley, aka "Mr. Bear", aka "Broski", aka "Furball", is the smartest, most gentle, and all around most obedient dog I've ever had.

He's awesome. He beats out my half-Husky/half-GS, Wolfie, for coolest pooch ever.

markm

07-24-09, 08:34

good to see more yakers here...

Yeah.. but everyone wants to talk about shooting dogs. :rolleyes:

:p We need a separate yak thread.... I have a lot to learn.

Littlelebowski

07-24-09, 09:17

1) Remove shirt or jacket
2) Wrap arm in shirt or jacket
3) Present wrapped arm to attacking animal
4) Stab aggressor in the neck with knife

If you have time and no firearms, this seems like good advice. Added to the mental toolbox.

Littlelebowski

07-24-09, 09:18

:confused:

I honestly never thought I'd see a post like this here from one of our members...

We can only show them the path, not make them walk on it. Or as we say in Wyoming, you can beat a horse to death but you can't make it drink :D

Maybe he's never been confronted by multiple gangbangers.

decodeddiesel

07-24-09, 09:39

whats up with these stories of these labs being really agressive? My lab never shows agression to any one outside of the house. She almost ate one of my friends that was comming over to feed her while i was out of town, but shes never showed any agression to anybody out side the house. In fact, i always walk here with out a leash, she just follows by my side and whenever she sees someone, shell run up to em, give em a sniff, and then roll over for a belly rub :rolleyes:

im really suprised that a lab got really aggressive with you, thats not like them. Im also a little shocked that that lab was attacking camerons horse.

Coming from my wife who is literally an "Industry Professional" and "Subject Matter Expert" in animals with a 4 year degree in the field...

She hated labs and golden retrievers. The issue is that they are some of the most sought after dogs in the world and inbreeding and puppy milling is rampant in the breed. Not to say there aren't good sound examples of the species, but most of the ones she saw were stupid, aggressive, and very short lived (usually less than 6 years) due to massive health problems resulting from inbreeding.

Littlelebowski

07-24-09, 09:43

Coming from my wife who is literally an "Industry Professional" and "Subject Matter Expert" in animals with a 4 year degree in the field...

She hated labs and golden retrievers. The issue is that they are some of the most sought after dogs in the world and inbreeding and puppy milling is rampant in the breed. Not to say there aren't good sound examples of the species, but most of the ones she saw were stupid, aggressive, and very short lived (usually less than 6 years) due to massive health problems resulting from inbreeding.

Exactly what I suspected. Roughly akin to the explosion in Rottweiler ownership in the 90s and the "Americanizing" of the German Shepherd (preference for the ridiculous sloped back and noticeable problem in biting).

decodeddiesel

07-24-09, 09:50

Exactly what I suspected. Roughly akin to the explosion in Rottweiler ownership in the 90s and the "Americanizing" of the German Shepherd (preference for the ridiculous sloped back and noticeable problem in biting).

Same thing.

I swear the state animal in Colorado should be the Golden Retriever. If you go down to Highlands Ranch (affluent, religious suburb community in south Denver) literally every single family has 2.4 children, 2 SUVs in the driveway, and a Golden Retriever in the backyard. :rolleyes:

Kentucky Cop

07-24-09, 10:06

The big story here in Ky is about a family dog running off with the family's first newborn. Apparently the parents had just brought home the newborn and was attempting to put it asleep up stairs in the bedroom. The family dog of several years with no aggressive issues , some kind of indian wolf breed if I am not mistaken, gained access to the babies room. The dog actually picked up the 3 day old child in its mouth "gently" and took off with it.

Dad is downstairs and notice's the dog now outside walking thru the backyard with something in its mouth. He goes out to investigate and to his distraught see's that its his 3 day old baby boy. Dad attempts to retrieve the boy from the dogs mouth but the dog thinks its a game and plays some sort of "keep away" from his owner. After several minutes, police and family members finally get the boy from the dogs mouth.

The boy was rushed to the hospital with fractured skull, both lungs collapsed, and lacerations. The dad was interviewed the next day by local news and stated that the dog was carrying the child as if it was a puppy or one of her own offspring. Such a sad story.

Moral of the story is that you never know what your dog or even someone else's is ever capable of no matter what the canine's track record is. Naturally, the dog is up for adoption now.

Ky Cop

WillBrink

07-24-09, 10:27

The owner on the beach assures me that they don't bite. The

I F-ing hate it when dog owners do that. They don't bite 'till they do, and then what? "whoops sorry" then? Keep your dogs on a leash, fenced, etc, but don't assure me (or your self) they don't bite. I have had big dogs come charging up to me, get my alert system from yellow to burnt orange, and the moronic dog owner yelling "oh don't worry, he/she does not bite." Really, that's one of my major dislikes in this life. Not everyone has dogs, not everyone like them, and few enjoy having them charge up to you, regardless of whether or not this is the day they decide to bite.

Mac5.56

07-24-09, 10:35

He was probably waiting for that.
:) wasn't waiting for it, but don't really care.

Mac5.56

07-24-09, 10:44

We can only show them the path, not make them walk on it. Or as we say in Wyoming, you can beat a horse to death but you can't make it drink :D

Maybe he's never been confronted by multiple gangbangers.

I don't want to get too into this, and I understand how on this forum everyone probably thinks I'm F'n nuts, which is totally fair. I don't get however how my choices some how mean that I have led a sheltered life? This I am very offended by, but wont take too personally. For everyones information I didn't and still don't have a sheltered life, and to quote Littlelebowski I have been confronted by "multiple gangbangers" multiple times.

To me it's a personal thing, the same as everyone here that CC's.

Also I grew up in Wyoming Little...;) And some of my roughest fights, including one that involved a .45 on the other end, happened in the Red Dessert!

Nathan_Bell

07-24-09, 11:57

For what it's worth, every time I go to the dog park some of the most nippy (with other dogs) and moody dogs are the Labs while the pit bulls run around wanting to be everybody's friend.

As far Cameron's horse, you shouldn't be surprised there. Classic pack behavior.

QFT.

Only ever had trouble with a two single dogs. All the others were packed up.

faithmyeyes

07-24-09, 13:35

To the above quote from dmc: WTF, over?

As an aside, I was under the impression that the best course to dispatch an attacking dog was to:

1) Remove shirt or jacket
2) Wrap arm in shirt or jacket
3) Present wrapped arm to attacking animal
4) Stab aggressor in the neck with knife

Or even, present bare arm to attacking animal, if time is short and your terrified 2-year-old girl is right behind you, then into the neck and ribs with the knife.

I'm not confident in my ability to safely dispatch a suddenly attacking dog with my pistol, especially with people nearby. I wish I was that good, but I'm probably not. My weapon of choice against dogs is a tee-ball bat (which nobody questions if I'm walking with my kids), or a homemade "walking stick" with a chunk of half-inch rebar embedded in one end.

I don't care how that "looks," or whether I cruelly injure a dog. If it attacks my kids, I'm going to **** it up. I have zero patience for out-of-control animals in residential areas, nor their cranio-rectal impacted owners.

Mac5.56

07-24-09, 14:15

I'm not confident in my ability to safely dispatch a suddenly attacking dog with my pistol, especially with people nearby. I wish I was that good, but I'm probably not. My weapon of choice against dogs is a tee-ball bat (which nobody questions if I'm walking with my kids), or a homemade "walking stick" with a chunk of half-inch rebar embedded in one end.

Funny you brought that up. I was relaying this thread to my fiance last night (see earlier posts about her profession and experience), and she was pretty shocked at the number of people that thought they could draw, aim, and hit a charging dog. Her last statement was:

"What about a f*cking baseball bat, that's what I would use, or my foot right into the side of the skull" :)

Mjolnir

07-25-09, 00:10

crenca

07-25-09, 00:34

whats up with these stories of these labs being really agressive? My lab never shows agression to any one outside of the house. She almost ate one of my friends that was comming over to feed her while i was out of town, but shes never showed any agression to anybody out side the house. In fact, i always walk here with out a leash, she just follows by my side and whenever she sees someone, shell run up to em, give em a sniff, and then roll over for a belly rub :rolleyes:

im really suprised that a lab got really aggressive with you, thats not like them. Im also a little shocked that that lab was attacking camerons horse.

The lab and the GS were herding the horse - it's their instinct.

Humans interpret "aggression" in many ways, animals are much more simplistic about it.

Pit's are not naturally people aggressive, but they are dog aggressive (that's what they were originally bred for) - but people are unnaturally pit averse (I don't own a pit - never have and never will as I like a working animal).

Lab's can be just as "aggressive" as any other dog - depending on the situation.

Overall, this thread reveals a strange obsession with dog 'aggressiveness'. The actual statistics of dog bites and serious harm reveals you should be much more worried about your morning commute, or being electrocuted by your toaster, or lighting strikes.

Blame it on Hollywood I suppose...

bkb0000

07-25-09, 00:41

Funny you brought that up. I was relaying this thread to my fiance last night (see earlier posts about her profession and experience), and she was pretty shocked at the number of people that thought they could draw, aim, and hit a charging dog. Her last statement was:

"What about a f*cking baseball bat, that's what I would use, or my foot right into the side of the skull" :)

i haven't had to shoot a charging dog, but i do know, just from what i've observed playing with my dogs, being charged by multiple pitbulls, and seeing a few police K9 take-downs, that attacking dogs generally "pounce" about 5 feet away- it doesn't get within your leg reach, and it's probably really hard to kick a dog literally sailing through the air at you. i've also observed that they generally don't charge from a distance and immediately pounce- from what i've seen, they usually charge to within 5-7 feet of you, THEN pounce- its at that moment of hesitation that one could pretty easiyl get a few shots off.

i may have posted my pitbull stories in another thread in the past, but just to summarize- i've had several encounters with pits that got loose in the neighborhoods i was working in- never got bit, and never had a sidearm on me, wearing my tool belt instead of a pistol belt. each time, whether the dog walked up to me or charged at me, it stopped 5-7 feet away to snarl and snap. had i been armed with anything more than a hammer-tacker each of these instances, i could have, and would have, fired pretty well-aimed shots.fortunately, simply pulling a tool out of a pouch and bringing it above my head was enough to keep the animal from pouncing.

like all things tactical, you cant limit yourself to any one answer- "i'll just kick it!" "i'll just shoot it!" "Stab it!" etc... you pretty much need to be prepared to do any or all of the above, because every situation is unique. thats why we pack gunz, yo.

bkb0000

07-25-09, 00:44

Pit Bulls are as fine with kids as, say, Labs are. The problem is that the wrong people are purchasing/breeding the "wrong" breed of dogs for the wrong reasons. I love dogs and working strain Pit Bulls are my favorite but they are not for everyone. Hell, they aren't for most. As much as I love Molossers (Mastiff-type and Mastiff-derived breeds) and as much as I know they have horrible reputations I do keep an eye on them due their formidable abilities. And I'll not hesitate to shoot one if it showed any aggression towards me. Their abilities (actually, any large breed - not just Pit Bulls) should never be underestimated.

I've drawn on two Staffordshire Terriers/so-called Pit Bulls and one American Bulldog.

my problem with pits is that almost all the ones i've encountered have been really ADHD, and/or have been aggressive. leaves a bad taste in your mouth. add this to the fact that a pit can kill where another dog would simply maim, or maim where another dog would simply nip- and i dont want the ****ers anywhere near my family. or me.

SkiDevil

07-25-09, 06:22

I was relaying this thread to my fiance last night (see earlier posts about her profession and experience), and she was pretty shocked at the number of people that thought they could draw, aim, and hit a charging dog.

I can assure you from first-hand experience that it CAN be done.

One thing I did learn is that body shots (pistol cartridges) to a large pitbull are pretty ineffective. Head-shots are much more decisive.

Pepper spray works. Sometimes.

SkiDevil

P.S. I don't relish killing anybody's pet, but spending an evening in the ER getting stitched-up/ cleaned-up is not a pleasant experience.

Mjolnir

07-25-09, 09:20

my problem with pits is that almost all the ones i've encountered have been really ADHD, and/or have been aggressive. leaves a bad taste in your mouth. add this to the fact that a pit can kill where another dog would simply maim, or maim where another dog would simply nip- and i dont want the ****ers anywhere near my family. or me.

What you describe is owner-related not the breed. I've witnessed Labs, Standard Poodles, Irish Setters and others showing major discipline issues with passive aggression. The OWNERS leave a horrible taste in my mouth. I work out next to a dog park and I always take the time to observe persons with their dogs. Most are okay, a few outstanding and several who are horrible.

Actually, any breed of dog over, say, 60 lbs is capable of killing you. I THOUGHT I could defeat a Malinois and put on a sleeve. SURPRISE!! No, he's not a Pit Bulldog but he's freakin' formidable in his own right.

Pit Bulls have been tested in Personality Tests and they are amongst the least likely breeds to bite you. Those results can be found online. The American Staffordshire Terrier (to most who really aren't into dogs could not indistinguish) are similar. The Pit Bull strains especially bred for dogfighting aren't worth two clovers as a guard animal as there is a near zero chance of them showing any unprovoked aggression.

What I think you correctly sense, however, is that they can take a Helluva lot of punishment - more than you can provide barehanded - and can dish out quite a bit - though other - admittedly larger - breeds can do more, too such as Rottweilers, Akitas, etc. I'm with you on this point. Since I don't know the bloodlines/breedings, don't know the dog's personality, don't know the level of owner control and training I could live fine without the vast majority around me. But this applies to all Molosser (or mastiff-type or derived breeds).

Littlelebowski

07-25-09, 10:25

The lab and the GS were herding the horse - it's their instinct.

Humans interpret "aggression" in many ways, animals are much more simplistic about it.
.

I believe Cameron would disagree with you. It was his horse.

Nathan_Bell

07-25-09, 11:09

The lab and the GS were herding the horse - it's their instinct.

Humans interpret "aggression" in many ways, animals are much more simplistic about it.

Pit's are not naturally people aggressive, but they are dog aggressive (that's what they were originally bred for) - but people are unnaturally pit averse (I don't own a pit - never have and never will as I like a working animal).

Lab's can be just as "aggressive" as any other dog - depending on the situation.

Overall, this thread reveals a strange obsession with dog 'aggressiveness'. The actual statistics of dog bites and serious harm reveals you should be much more worried about your morning commute, or being electrocuted by your toaster, or lighting strikes.

Blame it on Hollywood I suppose...

Go live in a rural area that has livestock and enough open country that there are ferals and peckerwoods that 'own' a halfdozen dogs, only because that is how many shows up when they are putting down the feed.

It isn't herding, it is hunting. That is what packs of dogs do.

Not going to go into details, but if I had not been damned lucky ( I know it wasn't skill) I would have been bitten repeatedly if not killed by these ****ing ferals/peckerwood owned dogs.

I have been nearly killed by livestock, dogs, equipment, and my own stupidity more times than I want to think about. The only one that can still get my hands shaking is the times dogs were after me. THis includes the time I was pinned by a 1 ton+ Angus/Charolaise bull.

It ain't Hollywood, it is real life, so get out of your little surburban rose colored glasses world and realize that if you meet a strange dog and are not looking at a way to bash its brains out, you will eventually end up in the ER.

To the dog lovers out there who are offended or going to say, "You beat my dog, you had better be ready for me" I say if your dog is attacking me and you are there you need to be smacked as well.

Jer

07-25-09, 11:24

Go live in a rural area that has livestock and enough open country that there are ferals and peckerwoods that 'own' a halfdozen dogs, only because that is how many shows up when they are putting down the feed.

It isn't herding, it is hunting. That is what packs of dogs do.

Not going to go into details, but if I had not been damned lucky ( I know it wasn't skill) I would have been bitten repeatedly if not killed by these ****ing ferals/peckerwood owned dogs.

I have been nearly killed by livestock, dogs, equipment, and my own stupidity more times than I want to think about. The only one that can still get my hands shaking is the times dogs were after me. THis includes the time I was pinned by a 1 ton+ Angus/Charolaise bull.

It ain't Hollywood, it is real life, so get out of your little surburban rose colored glasses world and realize that if you meet a strange dog and are not looking at a way to bash its brains out, you will eventually end up in the ER.

To the dog lovers out there who are offended or going to say, "You beat my dog, you had better be ready for me" I say if your dog is attacking me and you are there you need to be smacked as well.

This.