Picking out first 1911 [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

montanadave

07-24-09, 23:09

I own a variety of .45 pistols (Springfield XD, Glock 30, S&W Model 645) but am interested in getting a classic 1911. Primary use would be as a target shooting pistol. I'm just a little overwhelmed with the choices. My budget would probably max out at around $1500. Would appreciate some advice about how to get the best bang for the buck--whether I would be better off buying a less expensive model and doing some custom work or simply buying a more expensive model up front.

Mr. Smith

07-24-09, 23:17

I wood look at STI thy are nice guns for the money.Thy have lots of basic guns and thy have forged parts for the most part if you look at the specks on the guns you will see a wide range to pick from.

SUPERIOR FIREARMS LLC
5510 Fern Vally RD.
Louisville KY. 40228
502-365-2244

kaltblitz

07-25-09, 12:46

A Springfield TRP or Loaded Model would be a good place to start.

Outrider

07-25-09, 13:16

whether I would be better off buying a less expensive model and doing some custom work or simply buying a more expensive model up front.

Unless you're doing the work yourself, I don't think you're going to be saving money by buying a less expensive, more stripped down model and then doing custom work. I've gone that route with gunsmiths and it ended up being very expensive. -It's kind of like buying a car. There's a minimum cost to get a good one. The difference in price between the base model and the loaded model isn't nearly as much as it would be if you bought and paid to have each extra / upgraded component installed separately.

One thing you might want to do is look for a used higher end 1911. I haven't checked the market recently but two to three years ago, people were selling used Wilson Combat CQB 1911 pistols between $1500 - $1750. I picked up one from a friend with eight 47D mags, range bag, DVDs, and paperwork, for $1550. It was like it just came from the factory.

I'm not going to shill for other sites by name, but some other boards have for sale sections where used high end 1911 pistols are listed for sale or trade on a fairly regular basis.

d90king

07-25-09, 14:19

shadco

07-25-09, 15:47

If it is going to be a target oriented 1911, I would go with a Les Baer PII. Very accurate and reliable out of the box. It has adjustable sights so it will be good for the range and paper. There is no need to get the 1.5" @50 upgrade...

I couldn't agree more

A Les Baer Premier II is really accurate and ultra reliable. It's a little hard to breakdown until you get a coupla thousand rounds through it.

http://www.pbase.com/shadco/image/110049661.jpg

RojasTKD

07-25-09, 16:07

If I had $1500 for my next 1911 I'd be looking at a Les Baer also.

MarshallDodge

07-25-09, 17:26

Les Baer. I will send you a PM with info on where you can find a good used PII.

d90king

07-25-09, 19:20

Here's another cool range/target pistol. Les Baer Monolith Heavy Weight. Has almost zero muzzle rise because of the added weight with the full length dustcover. I prefer no front cockers..
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN0786.jpg

montanadave

07-26-09, 23:29

The Les Baer models look pretty impressive and from what I've read, their performance matches their looks. What should a 1911 noob be looking out for when checking out used models?

Vash1023

07-27-09, 00:00

SA operator.

u can find them used for between 6 and 900

well worth the 1300 pricetag

BiggLee71

07-27-09, 00:04

Unless you're doing the work yourself, I don't think you're going to be saving money by buying a less expensive, more stripped down model and then doing custom work. I've gone that route with gunsmiths and it ended up being very expensive. -It's kind of like buying a car. There's a minimum cost to get a good one. The difference in price between the base model and the loaded model isn't nearly as much as it would be if you bought and paid to have each extra / upgraded component installed separately.

One thing you might want to do is look for a used higher end 1911. I haven't checked the market recently but two to three years ago, people were selling used Wilson Combat CQB 1911 pistols between $1500 - $1750. I picked up one from a friend with eight 47D mags, range bag, DVDs, and paperwork, for $1550. It was like it just came from the factory.

I'm not going to shill for other sites by name, but some other boards have for sale sections where used high end 1911 pistols are listed for sale or trade on a fairly regular basis.

You are absoluetly , 100% correct in your assessment of the very tricky 1911 marketplace.
The reason's are various . I learned most of them at an LAV class. I think Larry know's a thing or 2 about these pistol's.
Dave , go for the safe queen/gently used Wilson CQB in the 1500 dollar range. you won't reget it.

ra2bach

07-27-09, 00:44

is the Dan Wesson still considered an exceptional "stock" gun at a reasonable price?

Bob Reed

07-27-09, 07:38

Hello,

Take a look at The Colt Model 01918, it comes standard with everything that's needed (except for enough extra magazines).
http://www.coltsmfg.com/products-c5-q50-COLT_PISTOLS.aspx

Irish

07-27-09, 07:58

Read this first: http://www.10-8consulting.com/article_page.php?articleID=13.
I purchased a barely used Wilson CQB a couple years ago and have had excellent results with it and would recommend going the same route VS buying new, unless you want it customized. I've also read many positive reviews of the Springfield Operator for out of the box performance and which you can buy new for approx $1300.

R Moran

07-27-09, 08:05

Hello,

Take a look at The Colt Model 01918, it comes standard with everything that's needed (except for enough extra magazines).
http://www.coltsmfg.com/products-c5-q50-COLT_PISTOLS.aspx

"Everything", perhaps by your standards, but, obviously not others.

As stated above read Hiltons articles.

If you don't want it for a fighting gun, there are plenty of models available. Doesn't SA make a few pure target guns?

Bob

Ricardus

07-27-09, 08:32

Check out the Dan Wesson pistols.
Also check out the pistols being put out by Bob Serva at Fusion Firearms. The price to value ratio is excellent:

http://www.fusionfirearms.com/

You really need to check this site out before you decide. It will educate and inform you.

BAC

07-27-09, 10:00

Fusion Firearms is who I have in mind to build a Colt CCO-style graduation present to myself. :)

The Dan Wesson Valor have been very well received, and I know at least a couple that have been pretty heavily shot but function as fine as one can want a 1911 to (that is to say, few or no problems on one, and none at all on the other). This one is pretty high on my want list, but with the Fusion 1911 I want build I doubt the Valor will migrate to the need column any time soon.

-B

The Dumb Gun Collector

07-27-09, 10:46

I think a used Wilson CQB is the best route.

For less money, I might pick up a Colt Combat Elite or an XSE.

Gutshot John

07-27-09, 11:02

Colt 1991 with some custom work but you don't have to spend the whole 1500. I just went through this myself but I didn't spend anywhere near that much. If you're going to spend that much, why not just go the full-custom route for an extra 5 bills?

I picked up a barely used 1991 at my local store two months ago. I had the store's smith (someone I trust and whose work I know) put $250 worth of parts/smithing into mine for Novak Night Sights, Ambi-Safety, 10-8 trigger and reliability/trigger job. It's far too heavy to be a carry gun for me but so far (400 rounds of Fiocchi/Lawman) it functions well and is perfectly adequate for a basic 1911 that is still pretty reasonably priced relative to Kimber et al. The Les Baers are really nice too.

For your price range you could easily afford a really nice barrel too.

They also hold their value a bit better if you decide to sell and upgrade to a full custom.

d90king

07-27-09, 11:30

I think a used Wilson CQB is the best route.

For less money, I might pick up a Colt Combat Elite or an XSE.

I would certainly go with a CQB before either the CE or the XSE series... They both need a fair amount of work before I would consider them a pistol of the quality others mentioned. I think the money spent to bring them up to par would be better spent on other pistols at the price point the OP mentioned.

For the record, I have owned 3 XSE series pistols and own a CE. The sights are distracting and cheap (the plastic white dots tend to fall out), the slide serrations are very sharp and would need a good dehorn, the triggers are gritty at best, the beaver on the CE is poorly fitted, the TS is terrible on the CE, the duck bill on the XSE series is the worst Colt ever released IMHO...

The 3 XSE are the only Colts that I have ever sold out of my collection. The CE I bought because it was #4 and I have a thing for low numbers in my Colt collection.

You can see the poor fit of the BT in this pic of the CE and notice the TS and lack of proper beveling... It actually digs into your thumb when engaging the GS.

I usually love Colts but for whatever reason those you mentioned are my least favorite. I try and be honest and objective even tho I love Colt.
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN0916.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN0918.jpg

If I was considering a Colt at the price point mentioned. I would recommend the SCG in 38 Super.
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN0302.jpg

Denny

07-27-09, 14:01

I have 3 1911 a Springfield TRP which I have to say the fols at Springfield customer service are great and fast. A Tripp built on Caspain frame and slide that is super and Essex frame "parts" guns built by a USMC armorer about 30 years ago and it shoots fine.

IN MY OPINION you can

1. Buy a 1911 and order it the way you want it.

2. Buy a high end used 1911 and save money.

3. Buy a stock pistol and have it built to your specs( most name pistol smith have a long waiting list)

Good luck in your pursuit of this the 1911 will serve you fine but must be maintained to a higher standard than Glocks or XDs

Erik 1

07-27-09, 14:28

Suppose you wanted to get a 1911 that was relatively inexpensive to start with, reliable enough to be fun from the beginning (not a carry or competition gun) and a good base for updating as time, funds and maybe learning to do some basic smithing yourself permitted? Is this possible? What would you recomend? What would you look for in such a gun?

This is my first post here by the way. What a great forum!

To the OP - my apologies if this is too far off track from what you're interested in.

dbrowne1

07-27-09, 15:13

I've always been a Glock guy but decided to try out the 1911 last year. I read as much as I could (including Hilton Yam's articles) and put a saved search on Gunbroker for the Colt Gunsite Pistol. I've been very pleased with it and it can certainly outshoot me.

The CGP seemed to me to be a gun that was inexpensive enough to justify in case I didn't like the 1911, but definitely not "cheap" and still a very good quality pistol that wouldn't "need" any work at my level of shooting. Colt makes excellent small parts and the CGP has most of the sharp edges taken off so it's not as prickly as most Colts. It also includes some decent upgrades in terms of the sights, trigger, etc. without breaking the bank.

If you can find one of those for a decent price, they're worth a look.

theJanitor

07-27-09, 15:18

used semi-custom (Baer, Wilson, etc) is the best way to go at this price range. here's some off of GB this morning

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=135031435

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=134893164

i hope the $1500 budget was for just the weapon. good 1911 mags aren't cheap, and you're going to need a few platform specific tools to perform routine maintenance. so count on several hundred dollars more for everything else

Bob Reed

07-27-09, 22:35

"Everything", perhaps by your standards, but, obviously not others.

As stated above read Hiltons articles.

If you don't want it for a fighting gun, there are plenty of models available. Doesn't SA make a few pure target guns?

Bob
Hello Bob,

Just in case you missed it, the thread starter specifically said Classic 1911, and Colt's Model 01918 sure fits that description.

BTW: Thanks for the tip on Hilton's article, he's a bright man, but respectfully sir, I already know how to handle, detail strip, reassemble, lube & maintain a 1911.

R Moran

07-28-09, 08:48

Hello Bob,

Just in case you missed it, the thread starter specifically said Classic 1911, and Colt's Model 01918 sure fits that description.

BTW: Thanks for the tip on Hilton's article, he's a bright man, but respectfully sir, I already know how to handle, detail strip, reassemble, lube & maintain a 1911.

Just in case you missed it, he also mentioned target shooting, a strtaight 1911, is not generally suited for that.

Many people use the term "classic" (or venerable) when refering to a 1911 of any type. You would swear its part of the nomenclature.

Perhaps if the Op was abit more specific?

The advice was for the OP to read Mr. Yams articles. If you read enough, you'll see there is much more info there then what you listed.

Its amazing what people who already know, can learn.

Bob

montanadave

07-28-09, 09:48

My initial post may have lacked the specificity some would prefer prior to making a recommendation. This is my fault and is simply due to my lack of knowledge with respect to the 1911 platform. But if I knew exactly what I wanted, I wouldn't be asking for recommendations, right?

What I'm looking for is a high-quality full-size 1911 which will hold its value while still providing an accurate and reliable pistol for recreational target shooting and home defense. Models currently catching my eye are (high end) the Les Baer Premier-II Super-Tac and the S.R.P. while (low end) the Springfield Operator. Thoughts on these models?

Bob Reed

07-28-09, 09:56

Its amazing what people who already know, can learn.

Bob
Hello Bob,

Man, ain't that the truth... and I agree with you 100% sir. In fact, I'll consider my self as a student till the day I die.

Actually, one of my favorite quotes comes from Jim Higginbotham regarding the learning process. He said something along this line.

"It's amazing what we start learning, once we know it all"

You Take Care Bob, and it's always good talkin' with ya.
Bob Reed

moyler

07-28-09, 12:15

Primary use would be as a target shooting pistol. My budget would probably max out at around $1500. Would appreciate some advice about how to get the best bang for the buck--

Here are 2 Les Baer PII's for sale at great prices by a couple good guys in the 1911 community. The economy, for some, is such that some fine examples are being made available at reasonable prices.

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=71270

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=70769

Per your conditions and price point, a used Baer PII is what I would go for.

If you were looking for more of a "fighting" 1911, I would go with a less "tight" fit gun, like Wilson, Brown or Colt. The tight lock up on Baers can make it more difficult to perform one handed re-loads and malfunction drills, in my experience.

Good luck!

Irish

07-28-09, 12:38

Models currently catching my eye are (high end) the Les Baer Premier-II Super-Tac and the S.R.P. while (low end) the Springfield Operator. Thoughts on these models?
While Hilton may not be omnipotent, I highly respect his opinion on the subject of 1911's, and that's why I recommended you read his articles. For the 10-8 custom 1911's he builds he uses the S.A. Operator which is also on your short list of desirables, that's a hint.

I highly recommend perusing the 10-8 forums and soaking up as much information as you can from some very knowledgeable folks over there. That's not to say that the subject matter equal is not here on this board but they tend to spend much more time devoted to your question over there.

Hilton and Larry Vickers have worked together alot on redesigning some very critical parts for the 1911 as well, I recommend looking at the changes they've made and trying to research and understand why they made the changes they did.

I've also seen many pictures of LAV carrying & using a Wilson Combat CQB on different occasions and I would take that as a pretty darn good recommendation on what to look at. There are a slew of different reasons Mr. Yam & Mr. Vickers choose the 1911's that they do and I'm sure I know of only a few out of a myriad but I would definitely take a hard look at what recognized 1911 experts carry themselves and go from there.

As far as the Les Baer goes... I know many people buy them and like them alot and typically from what I've heard & read they have a long break in period and are extremely tight off the shelf. This to me translates into them not taking the time to properly hand fit everything at the shop and they definitely don't need to have as tight of a tolerance fit as they do. Try racking the slide on a new one... Don't take this as disparaging Baer but my opinion is they are more for a hobbyist and not as much of a fighting gun.

All that being said start practicing your Google-Fu and use Larry Vickers, Hilton Yam and 1911 in your search and read, read, read... Good luck!!!

R Moran

07-28-09, 20:55

Hello Bob,

Man, ain't that the truth... and I agree with you 100% sir. In fact, I'll consider my self as a student till the day I die.

Actually, one of my favorite quotes comes from Jim Higginbotham regarding the learning process. He said something along this line.

"It's amazing what we start learning, once we know it all"

You Take Care Bob, and it's always good talkin' with ya.
Bob Reed

Do I detect a bit of sarcasm:D

Montana:

Its no real problem. But, you need to realize there are as many different types of 1911's as there are users of them. All looking for something different from their guns.

Most guys here, tend to the serious use of a gun, any gun. Hence the recommendations of Yam, and Vickers, both well known for their work on serious/duty use 1911's.

Some guys just want a gun that looks like a GI gun from the movies, and as the other Bob pointed out, the various Colt re-issues are as real as it gets. In fact, IIRC, the initial runs, had discrepancies that collectors caught, and Colt later corrected. But they will cost you.
Some guys would be happy with a Springfield GI, or mil-spec, or a Colt '91

Some guys want a 1911 for hostage rescue operations.
Some guys want a 1911 for bulls-eye matches
Some guys want a 1911 for,
well you get it, so your options are as varied as the opinions you will receive.

So where do you stand?

My opinion, is if the gun has even the remotest chance of defending your life or family, read Yams articles, and start to look around.

The SA Operator is considered a good gun that needs little tweaking out of the box, has many features a lot of shooters find desirable, and responds well to the attention of a good smith, supposedly the Custom shop at SA is very good.

Remember, you'll need mags, holsters, ammo, etc. figure that into your budget.

Understand this though, all 1911's, regardless of looks and features, are not created even close to equal.
1911's ain't Glocks, that's a good thing, and a bad thing.
Know what a 1911 bring's to the table, good and bad.

Bob