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VA_Dinger
07-01-06, 22:46
How do you guys feel about enhanced accuracy AR uppers now days? I was bitten by the SPR bug early a few years ago and loved shooting that rifle. The Leupold 3.5-10x scope I was using at the time seemed awesome. Now I’m thinking that the shorter barreled precision (14.5”-16”) upper makes more sense. More in line with the NSW “Recon/Recce” rifle concept. The lighter weight and more compact profile seem to be a big selling point. For what I shoot, a good 16” barreled rifle with 4x optic (ACOG, S&B Short Dot, Elcan, Nightforce, ETC.) seems more in line with my needs and capabilities.

I want to hear your opinions. I'm interesting in building another 16”, probably using some form of ACOG.

Pictures of yours would also be nice. :)

-Wes-
07-02-06, 02:45
Sounds like a good recipe for narrowing down a collection of rifles/carbines.
Right in the middle of all the different aspects; Length, Barrel quality, Weight, Optics.
Haven't built that one yet, though I picture one with a DD 12.0 lite (when it comes out), 14.5" or 16" Noveske light contour, 2-stage of choice(perhaps Geiselle), the rest is personal flavor.

My build in the works is...well nevermind...it's a secret.;)

bigbore
07-02-06, 07:09
The 16" barrel with a midlength gas system is the most practical AR platform based carbine you can build. If you need a barrel longer than 16" in a "weapon" it should be a 7.62x51.

I've parted all my 16" uppers out for 5.56 SBRs lately. The SBRs look neat, and are a bunch of fun to shoot, but their application is pretty thin when you look at the whole picture. Theres a tool for every job, and the SBR isn't the right tool for most jobs.

Regarding optics: Have you spent much time with the Aimpoint 3X mag behind either a Aimpoint or EoTech? At first I didnt like the idea, but its worked out great for me.

My in-progesss build is:

16" SS 1:8 barrel w/mid gas system
OPS INC 12th model suppressor
GG&G flip up front sight w/trijicon post
EoTech 512 w/Aimpoint twist mount for the 3X mag (gets shared between uppers)

I'm still thinking about the handguard. The VLTOR VIS would be neat, but not very practical in my situation - I dont need something that offers the ability to attach a M203.

I really want to build something with the DD 9.0 Lite rail, but the regular M4 9.0rail will work just as well and leave me money for practice ammo.

twl
07-02-06, 08:04
I like very good accuracy in all my guns.

I also primarily use a 16" barrel, and it is very accurate, and also handy.

It's a good overall barrel length for multi-purpose.

If I was going to dedicate the gun to long range shooting, I'd outfit it with a longer barrel, and alot of other specialty items for that purpose.
If I wanted to dedicate the gun to very short range stuff, and inside-the-house defense, I'd pick a shorter barrel, and other specialty items.

But the 16" will do most of what you need in most circumstances, and it is a very good overall choice, I think. It will serve well in all but the most cramped circumstances for defense, and it will reach out there in distance shooting longer than alot of people might think.

Regarding optics, that's sort of a personal choice.

Dport
07-02-06, 09:20
I've had the bug for a couple of different uppers.
A 24" varmiter-type.
A 18" SPR-style.

Now I'm leaning towards a 16" with a 1-4x optic.

Luckily I'm poor right now, so I have some time to decide.:D

VA_Dinger
07-02-06, 10:54
I'm currently leaning towards this configuration:

(1.) 16" match chrome lined barrel - no heavy weight profile
(2.) S&B Short Dot, ACOG TA31F, or TA31DOC
(3.) LaRue 12"
(4.) KAC, LMT 2-stage, or Geissele trigger

Aubrey
07-02-06, 11:07
The 16" barrel with a midlength gas system is the most practical AR platform based carbine you can build. If you need a barrel longer than 16" in a "weapon" it should be a 7.62x51.

bigbore,
I agree. The 5.56 certainly has the accuracy to make hits beyond 300m, but fragmentation will not be consistent. Why have a longer barrel on a 300m weapon? The RECCE concept (16") is more versatile than an SPR (18"), and it should be practically as effective.

Nitrox
07-02-06, 13:43
I'm currently leaning towards this configuration:

(1.) 16" match chrome lined barrel - no heavy weight profile
(2.) S&B Short Dot, ACOG TA31F, or TA31DOC
(3.) LaRue 12"
(4.) KAC, LMT 2-stage, or Geissele trigger

This exactly what my last build was. This is by far the most practical carbine (accurate SBR's are absurdly silly in most applications).

Here's the run down:
1) 16" chrome lined, midlength gas system, medium weight with rifle length sight radius
2) TA31F w/PF reflex
3) DD M4 12" rail
4) CMC SS curved trigger
5) Ops Inc 15th Model suppressor with custom mount.

I shot the carbine in a match and it was very maneuverable and could easily hit a man sized target off hand out to 300 meters...which is the whole point without going to a precision rifle.

sapper326
07-02-06, 14:03
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3552/dsc048661eq.jpg

DevilDog
07-02-06, 21:11
imho, a 16" really seems to be the sweet spot for an AR in 5.56. Its small enough to handle well, yet long enough to get things moving to a meaningful velocity.

A few times I've considered getting an 18" build, but I always end up realizing the only thing the extra barrel length is going to do is make me carry it around in one of my rifle cases or disassembled in one of my carbine cases.

Unfortunately neither of my 16" are midlength - as they were purchased when midlenths were rare, but I do see a 16" midlength in my future. I'd like to try one in a any-sight 600 yard prone match and see how it fairs compared to my DCM/CMP service rifles.

cohiba
07-02-06, 21:24
Dinger,

Out of everything, the 16" recce is what I would keep if I could only have one. (Yeah, even THAT upper;) ) I think it is the perfect balance of handiness, accuracy and velocity.

PWA lower, Stag LPK
Magpul trigger guard and MIAD
Crane/LMT SOPMOD stock
TD vert grip
SF 952, LT mount
Colt M4 upper
Colt carrier and MP bolt
Noveske 16.1" Recon, 5.56 match chamber, SS, poly, 1/7
Gemtech bi-lock
LT 13.2
KAC front sight
KAC 600m BUIS
S&B Short Dot in LT SPR mount

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/conndcj/recce017.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/conndcj/recce015.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/conndcj/recce014.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/conndcj/recce008.jpg

BTW, the testing is confirmed for 7/10 for a period of three weeks. I'll keep you posted.:cool:

VA_Dinger
07-03-06, 00:00
BTW, the testing is confirmed for 7/10 for a period of three weeks. I'll keep you posted.:cool:

Your just teasing me. :D

CapnCrunch
07-03-06, 15:56
Cohiba, that's one impressive build! Is that the one that got the DBAL?

Robb Jensen
07-03-06, 16:28
This is my wife's REECE/SPR type rifle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/9df19e05.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/a952856c.jpg

It's a Noveske 14.5" Afghan upper. It had a Rocksetted on Gemtech M4-96 FS'r on it. And since buying two AAC M4-2000s I was planning on selling the Gemtech and having my wife use on of my AACs on it. Well the central VA shop I had remove the Gemtech FS'r bent the threaded end of the barrel, then tried to claim it was already bent (which is BS since it worked fine in over 600 rounds through the Gemtech). This shop also could not remove the Larue rail, said it was loc-tited on (I don't know if it was but I couldn't remove it either). So it's off to Randall at www.ar15barrels.com to shorten as little as possible, rethread and then perm. attach the long SOCOM AAC FS'r hopefully for an 16" overall bbl length so I won't have to use it on one of my SBRs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/98098eaa.jpg

cohiba
07-03-06, 21:25
Cohiba, that's one impressive build! Is that the one that got the DBAL?

Thank you. Again, if I had to have one, this is it.

It is not the DBAL bearer, that was my 14.5, for test/fit purposes until the new upper comes in. Then I will have a weapon of unimaginable destructive power..HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...sorry, got carried away. Its coming soon.:D

THellURider
07-04-06, 11:16
http://thellurider.zoto.com/img/1024x768x1/1f9e4498d9ddc3ee9584fe09fb50185e-.jpg

It's wearing an Aimpoint in that pic but that is a Noveske Afghan barrel. Shoots 0.5 MOA easily.

Here it is again with an Illuminated US Optics 1-4. It is the one in the back. It's in Coyote mode in the picture.

http://thellurider.zoto.com/img/1024x768x1/570e72a49bac7990bd24796161d88c8a-.jpg

The specs that matter:

LMT upper
Noveske Afghan barrel
Larue 13.2
Larue SPR mount
US Optics 1-4 Illuminated
Noveske Lower
Giesselle Trigger
Magpul stock

mr h
07-06-06, 14:42
i too got the bit by the "short barrel, precission shooter" as well. i was even thinging of a free floated m4 profile so i could add the can and not have a bunch of length and weight. but for now here is my recce, kinda sounds like what your thinking of.

edited for updated pic,,

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/827623/CIMG1294CROP.jpg

Cold
07-06-06, 15:28
How do you guys feel about enhanced accuracy AR uppers now days? I was bitten by the SPR bug early a few years ago and loved shooting that rifle. The Leupold 3.5-10x scope I was using at the time seemed awesome. Now I’m thinking that the shorter barreled precision (14.5”-16”) upper makes more sense. More in line with the NSW “Recon/Recce” rifle concept. The lighter weight and more compact profile seem to be a big selling point. For what I shoot, a good 16” barreled rifle with 4x optic (ACOG, S&B Short Dot, Elcan, Nightforce, ETC.) seems more in line with my needs and capabilities.

I want to hear your opinions. I'm interesting in building another 16”, probably using some form of ACOG.

Pictures of yours would also be nice. :)


Here ya go

Noveske Infidel Barrel 13.3, with the Kx3
Gisselle trigger I got from Grant and Co. at G&R Tac.
US Optics SN 1-4 with the D.O.E. ret
The other upper is a Noveske 14.5 with the S.E. Vortex
US optics SN 1-4 with the Mark 2 ret
also Gisselle trigger from Grant.
Noveske lowers, magpul PRS etc yadda yadda...

Ask me how they shoot ;)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/Cold1/nov2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/Cold1/USOscopeson2Ars.jpg


ETA: Ahh I see my counter part posted the pics with the proper logo attached, good lookin out.

mr h
07-07-06, 00:16
i have been thinking about moving the ta31 to the m4 barrel so i put it on there and took this pic for you,,,

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/827623/AR15M4TA31M42K1small.jpg

K.L. Davis
08-05-06, 00:25
I have been working on a post for the last couple of days about barrels... but it is getting to be rather long -- covering barrel function, construction, materials, rifling types, chambers, and all that groovey stuff. Hope to post it this weekend.

One of the things I talk about in this newest work is "match grade v. batch grade" barrels and what is pratical accuracy...

That said, real MOA accuracy is not at all hard to get from the AR platform... even the "carbine" length barrels, if assembled from good parts by someone that knows a thing or two about the gun, will have the potential to be an MOA gun.

AR15barrels
08-05-06, 00:34
Well the central VA shop I had remove the Gemtech FS'r bent the threaded end of the barrel, then tried to claim it was already bent (which is BS since it worked fine in over 600 rounds through the Gemtech).

Actually, the barrel was NOT bent, but the threads were WAY crooked because they tried to use a die to clean up the boogered up threads.

I put the barrel up in the lathe and spun it and the run-out was obvious.
Looking down the bore, it was straight.

Robb Jensen
08-05-06, 06:04
Actually, the barrel was NOT bent, but the threads were WAY crooked because they tried to use a die to clean up the boogered up threads.

I put the barrel up in the lathe and spun it and the run-out was obvious.
Looking down the bore, it was straight.

I misunderstood you then. It did come out very nicely!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/Noveskebblnew.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/Noveskebblnew3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/Noveskebblnew4.jpg