View Full Version : "You use it on large lions, tigers and bears" (FN 5.7)
Littlelebowski
07-26-09, 10:12
News for DocGKR :D I don't have the words to express how I feel on this one....
Original article (http://www.dailynews.com/breakingnews/ci_12060413)
Deadlier weapons triggered arms raids
By Sue Doyle, Staff Writer
Updated: 04/02/2009 10:35:59 PM PDT
Raids in Los Angeles this week that uncovered an extraordinary cache of illegal assault weapons were prompted in part by an increased use of high-powered weapons in San Fernando Valley shootings, police said.
Two men and one woman were arrested this week after authorities raided a downtown warehouse and several Los Angeles homes and seized 32 firearms, including semiautomatic rifles, high-caliber guns and ammunition for AK-47s.
"We knew the firearms were out there and we wanted to get them off the street," said Michael Hoffman, a special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. "Firearms are the tools of the trade for gang members and drug dealers."
Authorities have noticed an increase in high-caliber weapons in Los Angeles. One of the most startling incidents was when a Fabrique National 57, an assault pistol used to kill big game, was found in a victim's car by detectives investigating a double-homicide last year in North Hollywood.
"You use it on large lions, tigers and bears," said LAPD Deputy Chief Michel Moore, commander of the Valley Bureau.
And in October, police found dozens of casings sprayed from high-caliber weapons at the scene of a homicide on Sherman Way in North Hollywood, where gunmen wore ballistic body armor, Moore said.
"This type of preparedness isn't typical of the San Fernando Valley or anywhere around here," Moore said.
Moore said the Valley streets have been quiet since the shootings. But the unusual weapon choice propelled local and federal officials to search for suppliers of these high-caliber magazines and assault weapons.
Authorities gathered information on gun suppliers during searches at homes of residents on parole and probation.
Undercover officers from LAPD's counterterrorism bureau then bought semi-automatic and fully automatic weapons from a dealer.
Recent killings of four Oakland police officers gunned down by a parolee with a semi-automatic weapon has reignited cries for the federal government to reinstate a ban on assault weapons, which expired in 2004.
Assault weapons are illegal in California. But they are legally sold in several nearby states, including Arizona, Nevada and Texas.
"You use it on large lions, tigers and bears," said LAPD Deputy Chief Michel Moore, commander of the Valley Bureau.
Spoken like a true Michael Moore!
Gutshot John
07-26-09, 10:21
Wow... I can't decide whether the speaker is congenitally stupid or pathologically dishonest.
I would have expected nothing less from the higher ups in the LAPD, LASD, etc...etc... The sad part is that there is no one to provide a rebuttal to the article so it is all fact now. I find the statement below equally asinine. Apparently he doesn't recall the North Hollywood bank robbery incident. I actually was born and raised down in this area and it sad to see what it has become.
And in October, police found dozens of casings sprayed from high-caliber weapons at the scene of a homicide on Sherman Way in North Hollywood, where gunmen wore ballistic body armor, Moore said.
"This type of preparedness isn't typical of the San Fernando Valley or anywhere around here," Moore said.
If Deputy Chief Moore, armed only with a loaded 5.7 pistol, can last five minutes in a cage with a hungry lion I will eat a shoe.
Littlelebowski
07-26-09, 10:51
If Deputy Chief Moore, armed only with a loaded 5.7 pistol, can last five minutes in a cage with a hungry lion I will eat a shoe.
http://img2.ifilmpro.com/resize/image/stills/films/resize/istd/2784327.jpg
Littlelebowski
07-26-09, 10:53
The Dputy Chief's official webpage (http://www.lapdonline.org/valley_bureau/comm_bio_view/7646). Looks like a politician, not a cop to me.
Mr.Goodtimes
07-26-09, 11:05
i dont understand where you guys are coming from with this? Whats wrong with using the FN 5.7 as a large game pistol?
rubberneck
07-26-09, 11:10
Assault pistol? That's a new one. :rolleyes:
decodeddiesel
07-26-09, 11:18
"reignited cries for the federal government to reinstate a ban on assault weapons, which expired in 2004"
Give me a break. Write many hit pieces?
montanadave
07-26-09, 11:24
"Lions and tigers and bears. Oh my!" Where have I heard that before?
More dribble spewed by a nitwit. I can respect ther fact that he has made it as far as he has in that Agency but when you go spewing BS , UGH!!! :mad:
He is not talking about the FN 5.7. He is talking about the FN 57. Truly a safari grade assault pistol if I ever saw one.
If the weapon is so deadly then why was it found in the victim’s car, doesn’t sound like it did him much good.
What really bothers me is that this Deputy Chief telling a bold face lie and a news media that is clueless.
Assault weapons are illegal in California. But they are legally sold in several nearby states, including Arizona, Nevada and Texas.[/i]
Which is, of course, where the criminals go so they can legally buy the guns they use to commit crimes in CA. Of course they couldn't be obtaining them illegally right there in LA.:rolleyes:
Actually, I am quite pleased that Chief Moore described the FM in such a way, which I find a lot less hysterical than the typical Cop killer, Body Armor penetrating BS that is usually flaunted before the press about the FN.
Littlelebowski
07-26-09, 16:35
i dont understand where you guys are coming from with this? Whats wrong with using the FN 5.7 as a large game pistol?
No problem at all if you define cottontails and lesser as large game. Jackrabbits might be beyond the power of this cartridge.
Nathan_Bell
07-26-09, 17:02
No problem at all if you define cottontails and lesser as large game. Jackrabbits might be beyond the power of this cartridge.
If you manage to hit it with the clunkier than a G21 gripped 5.7.
Good grief, I heard the same sort of drivel at a gun show today. Some octogenarian with gun show credentials pinned to his shirt was talking to a guy about the 5.7. He was making it sound like tiny HEDP munition. "It's like an icepick on steroids..." is the particular phrase that I heard.
I barely pay attention to the stuff, and even I have a basic awareness that it's primary employment is in PDW platforms. Crom knows that the pistol feels almost like holding one of those H&K Mk23 hoglegs...
I know that I was standing there looking like :eek: because the guy asking the questions saw me looking at the codger and did a small double-take at me, which made me look at him. All I did was point at the doofus, shrug, shake my head a bit and mouth the words "Not really," before just moving on.
Stories get bigger and better every time they're told, huh? The LAPD hierarchy must like stories.
No problem at all if you define cottontails and lesser as large game. Jackrabbits might be beyond the power of this cartridge.
:confused:
well on stargate they use it against all sorts of alien creatures:p
:D:D:D:D:D
Deputy Chief Moore has completed the Education and Skills assessment of the Motorola University six-sigma Green Beret program, as well as the Enhanced Incident Management Unified Command Course, Texas Engineering Extension Service and Advanced Terrorism Awareness training.
Wait a minute, the deputy chief is a Six Sigma Green Beret .. . . . that means he is almost like. . . . Chuck Norris, right?
Six Sigma Green Beret
Oh, for the love of......I take it all back, that guy is a freakin' BALL OF FIRE.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9420/tacticalfacepalm.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/i/tacticalfacepalm.jpg/)
LOL! That tactical face palm photo made me shoot water out my nose, thanks! :)
ljlinson1206
07-26-09, 19:52
Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried to email Chief Moore to get a rebuttle on his quote? I mean, we all know that the media wouldn't fabricate or misquote anyone,, especially an LEO. Just a thought before we all start "bashing" a guy for an article written in a socialist, liberal newspaper from California. It would probably be more believable if it came from the Boston Globe or the New York Times, I know. Just my thoughts.
How many times have we watched "cops" or whatever, and see a police officer who can't even clear a "raven type" auto? And the things they say?
PEOPLE, police officer does not translate to firearms expert! Though some for sure are. And my best friend is a Ft. Worth PD sergeant. I work with cops everyday. I like cops. But don't hold them up to be firearms knowledgeable, unless you know the officer.
dog
Sorry if this is off topic a bit, but where did that image of the tactical face palm come from? Not the altered image, but the actual photo! I am trying to figure out the country of origin.
Sorry if this is off topic a bit, but where did that image of the tactical face palm come from? Not the altered image, but the actual photo! I am trying to figure out the country of origin.
It looks like the new Chinese bullpup rifle so I would say there are Chinese.
"It's like an icepick on steroids..." is the particular phrase that I heard.
That's actually a really good analogy. Take an icepick, pour all the steroids you want all over it, and you've basically got the ballistic capability of a 5.7 pistol.
(note: I don't think the steroids will actually make a difference, but whatever makes you happy ...)
It looks like the new Chinese bullpup rifle so I would say there are Chinese.
That's what I thought. So why the head slap? I wish I could see a video of this!
Regarding the 5.7:
So basically this pistol sucks, and is pointless? (I admit I know nothing about pistols). I bet it fires "Armor Piercing Bullets" though!!!
Regarding the 5.7:
So basically this pistol sucks, and is pointless?
Yes.
An exchange at a sniper show years ago:
Customer walks up to the FN booth and starts looking at the Five Seven pistol.
FN Rep: You shoot a lot of pistol?
Customer: Not really. I'm used to a heavy rifle, not the snappy recoil of a pistol.
FN Rep: You'd love this gun, then. It has the recoil of a .32!
Customer: Really?
FN Rep: Absolutely. Feels just like shooting a little .32 pistol.
Me: But it's a .22, isn't it?
M4tographer
07-26-09, 23:58
Don: Hey, Napoleon. What did you do last summer again?
Napoleon Dynamite: I told you! I spent it with my uncle in Alaska hunting wolverines!
Don: Did you shoot any?
Napoleon Dynamite: Yes, like 50 of 'em! They kept trying to attack my cousins, what the heck would you do in a situation like that?
Don: What kind of gun did you use?
Napoleon Dynamite: A frickin' FN Five-Seven, what do you think?
:D
Don: Hey, Napoleon. What did you do last summer again?
Napoleon Dynamite: I told you! I spent it with my uncle in Alaska hunting wolverines!
Don: Did you shoot any?
Napoleon Dynamite: Yes, like 50 of 'em! They kept trying to attack my cousins, what the heck would you do in a situation like that?
Don: What kind of gun did you use?
Napoleon Dynamite: A frickin' FN Five-Seven, what do you think?
:D
......... :D
If Deputy Chief Moore, armed only with a loaded 5.7 pistol, can last five minutes in a cage with a hungry lion I will eat a shoe.
I think I've got a shoe I can donate to the cause, wanna give it a go?...
I would honestly LOVE to have an FN-PS90. Would I rely on it to keep me and mine safe? Don't know. But it would be a multi-shot .22 mag+ with good reliability...
so, why not? for most situations. And it is cool. Has a good name, etc. And remember, the .22 mag class defeated modern body armor for many years....
Not the worst choice out there, by far....
dog
geminidglocker
07-27-09, 02:01
Yet one more reason california should slip off into the Pacific. It's the one state that I don't capitalize.
Robb Jensen
07-27-09, 08:03
When ever you hear 'high-caliber' you should stop reading and walk, no run away.
It's the first clue that the author doesn't know his anus from a gopher hole.
Business_Casual
07-27-09, 08:33
Should one wonder what round is used on "small" lions?
M_P
"We knew the firearms were out there and we wanted to get them off the street," said Michael Hoffman, a special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. "Firearms are the tools of the trade for gang members and drug dealers."
Aren't firearms the tools of the trade for LEO, .MIL and regular Joe citizens who're trying to protect themselves and their families? Demonization of firearms by tax agents who carry firearms as "tools of their trade" and who make their living off of them is ludicrous.
Raids in Los Angeles this week that uncovered an extraordinary cache of illegal assault weapons were prompted in part by an increased use of high-powered weapons in San Fernando Valley shootings, police said.
Two men and one woman were arrested this week after authorities raided a downtown warehouse and several Los Angeles homes and seized 32 firearms, including semiautomatic rifles, high-caliber guns and ammunition for AK-47s.
Probably only illegal in Kalifornia. Nowhere else.
Also, since when is a 7.62x39 considered "high-powered" or "high caliber" and since when is 32 firearms spread out over several locations considered "an extraordinary cache?" There's probably more guns than that just in the houses in my immediate neighborhood.
"We knew the firearms were out there and we wanted to get them off the street," said Michael Hoffman, a special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. "Firearms are the tools of the trade for gang members and drug dealers."
So why was the ATF involved? Was there some violation of federal law?
Authorities have noticed an increase in high-caliber weapons in Los Angeles. One of the most startling incidents was when a Fabrique National 57, an assault pistol used to kill big game, was found in a victim's car by detectives investigating a double-homicide last year in North Hollywood.
"You use it on large lions, tigers and bears," said LAPD Deputy Chief Michel Moore, commander of the Valley Bureau.
Lions and tigers and bears OH MY!
high-caliber magazines
WTF is a "high-caliber magazine?"
Assault weapons are illegal in California. But they are legally sold in several nearby states, including Arizona, Nevada and Texas.
... where you don't seem to hear about problems with those guns nearly as frequently. Hmmmmm...
The reporter also forgot to mention the following;
Assault weapons are illegal in California unless purchased and registered with the DOJ prior to 31 DEC 2000 (AFAIK). So in fact they are not illegal per se.
On need only look at the surrounding states of Nevada, Arizona, Oregon which all border California and these types of shooting incidents are rare. Not to mention most all of the surrounding states also allow ownership and use of NFA weapons with the quirky exception of Washington.
Probably only illegal in Kalifornia. Nowhere else.
Also, since when is a 7.62x39 considered "high-powered" or "high caliber" and since when is 32 firearms spread out over several locations considered "an extraordinary cache?" There's probably more guns than that just in the houses in my immediate neighborhood.
So why was the ATF involved? Was there some violation of federal law?
Lions and tigers and bears OH MY!
WTF is a "high-caliber magazine?"
... where you don't seem to hear about problems with those guns nearly as frequently. Hmmmmm...
K.L. Davis
07-27-09, 14:31
Okay... So I want to start a campaign, perhaps a website to collect pledges, all of which will be donated to the City of Los Angeles to be used for education.
Here is the deal:
I pledge to donate $100.00, once Deputy Chief Moore has spent one hour in a cage with a Lion, Tiger or Bear -- armed only with an FN 5.7 Pistol
I've got $100 if they'll post it on YouTube :D
Gutshot John
07-27-09, 14:49
Okay... So I want to start a campaign, perhaps a website to collect pledges, all of which will be donated to the City of Los Angeles to be used for education.
Here is the deal:
I pledge to donate $100.00, once Deputy Chief Moore has spent one hour in a cage with a Lion, Tiger or Bear -- armed only with an FN 5.7 Pistol
I'd pay a lot more than $100 to see that.
PrivateCitizen
07-27-09, 18:54
Deputy Chief Moore has completed the Education and Skills assessment of the Motorola University six-sigma Green Beret program …
All this is not surprising as they can't even get the resume right …
It's 'Green Belt' not 'Beret' and it is a managerial program.
Motorola's page. (http://www.motorola.com/content.jsp?globalObjectId=3055)
Maybe it's like mall-ninja management
EzGoingKev
07-30-09, 15:52
Wow... I can't decide whether the speaker is congenitally stupid or pathologically dishonest.
Why does it have to be one or the other and not both?
Authorities have noticed an increase in high-caliber weapons in Los Angeles. One of the most startling incidents was when a Fabrique National 57, an assault pistol used to kill big game, was found in a victim's car by detectives investigating a double-homicide last year in North Hollywood.
"You use it on large lions, tigers and bears," said LAPD Deputy Chief Michel Moore, commander of the Valley Bureau.
[/i]
I think that LAPD Deputy Chief Michel Moore should go out and use it on such game in the bush and then come back and let us know how it works out
pleaforwar
07-30-09, 17:23
:rolleyes:
Typical bs one can expect from California higher-ups.
Hey guys, I'm going on an elephant hunt with my slingshot, anyone wanna come? :D
Wow... I can't decide whether the speaker is congenitally stupid or pathologically dishonest.
The two aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, they describe characteristics found in many politicians, including those in uniform.
Assault pistol? That's a new one. :rolleyes:
not new unfortunately .I had a KG-99 (like a tec-9) back before the ban86-87 then everyone that saw it after the ban, said "what do you need with that assault pistol"?I smile and told them I need to assault criminals with my assault pistol:D
Okay... So I want to start a campaign, perhaps a website to collect pledges, all of which will be donated to the City of Los Angeles to be used for education.
Here is the deal:
I pledge to donate $100.00, once Deputy Chief Moore has spent one hour in a cage with a Lion, Tiger or Bear -- armed only with an FN 5.7 Pistol
I will pay 100.00 per animal thrown in there with him
crusader377
07-30-09, 21:32
The sad thing is that probably 90% of the public will believe the nonsense of the report without asking any questions. Also, this is another of many examples of poor quality of reporting by the media. Anyone with any intelligence could research and learn within 5-10 minutes that the 5.7mm is not a big game round.
Parabellum9x19mm
07-30-09, 21:35
The sad thing is that probably 90% of the public will believe the nonsense of the report without asking any questions. Also, this is another of many examples of poor quality of reporting by the media. Anyone with any intelligence could research and learn within 5-10 minutes that the 5.7mm is not a big game round.
they said the Five-seveN is a HIGH CALIBER WEAPON
just like how the AR15 is a HIGH POWERED RIFLE
who are you to disagree?
Yep, the 5.7 is so lethal and effective, the DOD got rid of nearly everyone they purchased:rolleyes: Now I got a friend that works in and around alot of DOD and DOJ department stuff and he said that once they got em they just about put em right back into the box. He said that they were so poor in effect that they didnt even have time to issue quite a few of the bunch. Thats just what I heard and trust the source, besides, it doesnt suprise me. The departments like that sometimes dont rigourosly test the stuff before order I guess.:rolleyes:
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