SBR crash course?

[Bread is People]

It never hurts to ask, but can someone give me a crash course on how to get an AR SBRed (from start to finish)? I'm not really familiar with the process except for some of the terms, but it is something that I've had on my mind for a while now. I live in Ohio, and there shouldn't be anything that would keep me from owning one. I know it takes time, so I figured that the sooner I start the process, the better.

Another question regarding AR SBR's: does the upper assembly need to stay the same or can I change it around? I mean like swapping a less than 16" barreled upper for a 16"+ upper or changing calibers on an SBRed lower.

[RetreatHell]

It never hurts to ask, but can someone give me a crash course on how to get an AR SBRed (from start to finish)? I'm not really familiar with the process except for some of the terms, but it is something that I've had on my mind for a while now. I live in Ohio, and there shouldn't be anything that would keep me from owning one. I know it takes time, so I figured that the sooner I start the process, the better.

Another question regarding AR SBR's: does the upper assembly need to stay the same or can I change it around? I mean like swapping a less than 16" barreled upper for a 16"+ upper or changing calibers on an SBRed lower.

Below is a reply I posted a couple months ago to another guy here who basically asked the same question. I have edited a few things in it however, but it's pretty much the same post. Hope it helps you out:


Okay, I just recently got into the NFA world myself and just last week got my Form 4 back and also a Form 1... here is what I did from beginning to end, which you may find useful (or not):

1-I ordered a suppressor from my Class III FFL dealer/friend. Once it arrived, he helped me fill out the Form 4 (leaving a few spaces blank, where I needed to write in the name of my yet-to-be-created Living Trust).

2-I went to a lawyer who specializes, among many other things, in NFA law and routinely does Trusts just for guys wanting NFA items. He charged me $350, which is pretty damn steep for that service in my opinion, but I only need to do it ONCE and want it done flawlessly, so I feel that in the end it was money well spent.

ALSO NOTE that my lawyer STRONGLY ADVISED AGAINST naming my trust something like, "Paul's Gun Trust," or "Paul's Firearms Trust." He said that, while not "illegal" by ANY means, naming your Living Trust with "guns" or "NFA" or Machine Guns" or "Firearms" in the name will make it VERY obvious to both BATFE and the NFA Branch of BATFE, and all law enforcement agencies in general, that you are only creating the Living Trust strictly for the procurement of Class III/NFA Firearms, and nothing else. He said that if, God forbid, you ever went to court or were ever in a situation where you had to defend yourself in anything even remotely resembling the law, that it just wouldn't look too good for you or your character if your Living Trust was named in such a direct and obvious way.

But I want to say again that it is NOT illegal by any means to name your Living Trust with the word "Firearms" or whatever in it. A lot of people do it. My lawyer just advised against it, is all I'm saying.

But you can name it whatever you like. An exact example of the name of my trust, if my name was Bob Darrel Smith, is: "The B.D. Smith Trust." Which whenever you engrave your lower receiver you would engrave it like this: "B.D. Smith Trust, Memphis, TN"

3-My lawyer helped me fill out my Form 1 and helped me finish filling out my Form 4 that I had already started, and then we put two signed copies of each, along with a copy of my newly-created and notarized Living Trust and also a check for $200 for each Form I was sending, inside of two large manilla envelopes one for the Form 1, and one for the Form 4) and I then went to the post office and mailed the two envelopes to the NFA branch using Certified Mail so that I could track the and keep tabs on them and everything.

4-While I was waiting, I found an AWESOME NFA engraver just an hour away from my house in Houston and mailed off my partially stripped (meaning I only took off the furniture but not the internals) lower receiver. He had an amazing turn-around of only an hour and a half and I received my lower back in the mail (via UPS Ground) two days after I originally shipped it to him.

5-I waited for three months.

6-I received both my Approved Form 4 and my Form 1 last week. Now it's time to have some fun, as I deserve it after my "hard" work!!!


All in all it's pretty damn easy to do everything you need to do. Just take it one step at a time and before you know it you'll be shooting your new toy at the range and having a blast with it!!

-Paul


As for the barrel length question you have: Make sure you know the barrel length of the upper receiver that you intend on buying before you fill out the Form 1 (the Application to Make and Register a Firearm). It just makes things less complicated. And if you KNOW for a fact that you'll be using several different length uppers on your one SBR'd lower, then write those different lengths in the box that ask for barrel length. I mean, technically if you write 10.5" in that box, but you wind up buying a 11.5" or a 14.5" upper, it's okay since it's STILL an SBR regardless and you're going up in size, not down, from what you originally wrote in that box.

An example: I just got another Form 1 back Approved. In this Form 1, when it asked for barrel length, I wrote 10.5"/11.5" because I have BOTH of those length uppers and want to be able to use both of them on that lower I just registered without having to worry about ANY hassle from some dumbass at the gun range who doesn't know NFA law and wants to call the cops and have me arrested or some stupid shit for having a 10.5" upper on my lower when technically I have 11.5" written down on my Approved Form 1.

As for putting a 16" upper on it AFTER it's registered as a SBR, that's totally fine. It doesn't matter at all what length a barrel is before or after you register a lower as an SBR when it's 16" or longer. HOWEVER, just know that once it's registered as an SBR, you CANNOT let a friend or relative or your wife or kids or ANYONE borrow it without you there with it, EVEN IF you put a 16" barrel on it before letting them use it. You HAVE to be there with anyone that uses it for the rest of your life! And because of that, MAKE DAMN SURE that the lower you are choosing to register is the one you really want to have registered, because you can't change your mind after it's Approved as an SBR. I say this because my first lower I had registered a few months ago was a Bushmaster, and it's a cheap piece of crap compared to all my other quality made, nice lowers. But I was just wanting to register something back then just so I could have ANY SBR. If I could do it back over again, I would buy a QUALITY (BCM, LMT, Noveske, Colt, KAC, etc...) lower to have registered as an SBR. The one I just had registered last week is a KAC SR-15 lower... very high quality and a great choice for an SBR lower in my opinion, due to the ambi controls which will be awesome for carbine classes.

My last bit of advice: call the NFA Branch in Martinsburg, WV if you need any help with the paperwork or have a question about barrel size or something like that. They are EXTREMELY helpful and are very nice as well. I just called them today and asked a dumb question that I didn't want to ask here in this forum and they helped me out and answered my question instantly and professionally.

NFA Branch phone number: 304-616-4500

Sorry for the incredible length of this post, but hey, you asked!:D

Good luck, and I hope this helps,

Paul

[SteyrAUG]

I would only add that you don't NEED to create a trust.

You can do a Form 1 SBR as an individual but then you need to complete the CLEO sign off section and submit pictures and prints.

[RetreatHell]

I would only add that you don't NEED to create a trust.

You can do a Form 1 SBR as an individual but then you need to complete the CLEO sign off section and submit pictures and prints.

Whoops, yeah I forgot to mention that. Thanks!;)

When I originally posted most of that a few months ago, the guy I was writing it to was going the Trust route, hence the direction my post went in.

[Bread is People]

RetreatHell, that is exactly what I was looking for, THANKS A BUNCH.
Now I'd rather not go the living trust route (only if there is no other way), so can someone explain in a little more detail about having a CLEO sign off? Also, where can I get the necessary forms?

If I already have the lower, do I still need to do anything with a class 3 dealer? It's not like anything special has to be done to it, or does it?

Another question I thought of is what if I move? Does a change in address mean major peperwork, even if it's within the same state?

You guys have been more than helpful so far, I can't thank you enough!

[AR15thur]

I'm interested in an SBR/Suppressor combo. Is there anyway to combine the two into one SBR stamp and only pay the fee once?

[CAR-AR-M16]

I'm interested in an SBR/Suppressor combo. Is there anyway to combine the two into one SBR stamp and only pay the fee once?

The only way to do that as a one stamp gun would be to have the suppressor permanently attached to the barrel (like they do with flash hiders) so that the length is over 16". I would not recommend doing this as it really limits you. Just pay the extra $200 and get the SBR and Suppressor seperately.

[William@swrmfg.com]

Bread is People:

I would advise you to start by reading this:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/index.htm

The NFA branch working with industry professionals and collectors has re-issued the NFA handbook, an invaluable tool for understanding and applying NFA regulations. Start reading chapter 6 regarding non-licensees. Then I would contact a class 2 manufacturer such as Orion Arms ( http://orion-arms.com/new/content/view/20/74/ ) for the necessary markings on your receiver. You can find a downloadable Form 1 here:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53201.pdf

Read the instructions carefully. Do ALL of this before you try to submit your form 1's. Take it slow. Understand what you're doing and get it right. ;)

-William

[Bread is People]

So it looks like the next logical step would be to ask my CLEO for a signature?
Another thing, would a state house of reps. representative be a sufficient substitute for the CLEO? It's a long shot, but I might have a chance if the CLEO doesn't sign.

I'm still a bit confused about the engravings. If I get the CLEO's sig., what else needs to be engraved on the lower? I thought that was only for if it goes on a living trust. Besides, it's already got the manufacturer's info, caliber, & serial number on it, does it need to be present in more than one place or something?

[SteyrAUG]

So it looks like the next logical step would be to ask my CLEO for a signature?
Another thing, would a state house of reps. representative be a sufficient substitute for the CLEO? It's a long shot, but I might have a chance if the CLEO doesn't sign.

I'm still a bit confused about the engravings. If I get the CLEO's sig., what else needs to be engraved on the lower? I thought that was only for if it goes on a living trust. Besides, it's already got the manufacturer's info, caliber, & serial number on it, does it need to be present in more than one place or something?

Just download the Form 1 and follow the instructions. They are pretty easy. There is a list of acceptable CLEO signers.

Under reason for purchase most folks put "all lawful purposes" and some choose "investment/collection."

I would caution against using "zombies/vampires."

:D

[Stan_TheGunNut]

Try this thread on ArfCom.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=257740

It's bascially a writeup of how I went about getting my first SBR. It may help answer some of your questions, then again, maybe it won't.