View Full Version : Enough "less than top notch" parts for another build...build it or sell the parts?
I'm building at least four rifles that are in various stages of completion and began ordering lots parts since January (which was really poor timing on my part). Admittedly I didn't know jack about quality parts before joining this site, thus to quote Rutger Hauer in Bladerunner... I've done questionable things." Now I have some really good stuff from DD, BCM, LMT, Noveske, etc., that will be used to build the four I mentioned, but also have some good and "questionable" stuff to almost build a fifth 5.56/.223 rifle (not a carbine).
Should I go ahead and build the fifth rifle as a plinker or sell the parts?
Here's what I have for the build:
BCM flat top upper (ordered from BCM, but no markings other than keyhole forging from Cerro) with M4 feed ramps.
RRA lower with RRA LPK
RRA CAR collapsible stock, commercial spec with RRA CAR buffer and spring
YHM lightweight rifle length FF rail
YHM 20" CMV barrel, chrome lined 1:7 twist. My biggest concern :confused:
Smith Vortex flash suppressor
VLTOR low profile GB. Will be set screw type and taper pinned.
Do not have a spare BCG, but would use BCM. Will also need sights and was thinking about Magpul MBUS with a decent scope (TBD). Mags will be PMAGs.
Appreciate the input,
Gene
My personal opinion is that it all depends on what you can afford.
If you need/want the cash and are willing to take a loss on the parts, then unload them. If you can afford to keep the parts and build the 5th without it interfering with other things you want to do in life, then my opinion would be to build it.
I say that just based on my own cost/utility view of tools... that they are usually worth more to me in function (even if they aren't top of the line) than they are in cash if I try to sell them second hand. In fact, for stuff that's not top of the line, I am even more strongly of the opinion since people expect you to take a huge loss on second hand gear that isn't Gucci. I'd rather just get use out of the item than feel like I rented a bunch of parts to sit around.
Of course, I'm a pack rat and generally have great difficulty selling off gear unless I either hate it or I really really need the cash. So my opinion probably isn't all that intelligent or practical ;)
You could also always build it as a gift for someone you care about (again, taking personal finances into consideration). I get a lot more satisfaction out of giving someone a cool gift than getting a couple bucks put in my wallet. This could be your opportunity to get a family member or close friend into the world of black rifles.
Good points. I'm fortunate enough that I don't need the money and I was planning on building a rifle for my brother, but was going to buiild him an utterly reliabe HD weapon.
I have a close friend that has indicated he would like to get into shooting. Perhaps I'll build it and take him to the range. If he likes it and it works well, I may give it to him.
Cheers,
Gene
Good points. I'm fortunate enough that I don't need the money and I was planning on building a rifle for my brother, but was going to buiild him an utterly reliabe HD weapon.
I have a close friend that has indicated he would like to get into shooting. Perhaps I'll build it and take him to the range. If he likes it and it works well, I may give it to him.
Cheers,
Gene
Wow.. That is awesome that you would just give the rifle to a new shooter. I need more friends like you. :)
You sound like a great brother and friend https://www.m4carbine.net/images/icons/icon14.gif
Even if you decide to only keep it around as a 'loaner' for your friend rather than a full gift, I'm sure he'll appreciate it.
Thanks guys.
My friend is one of those people that will always watch my back even when times are rough. A rifle is the least I can do. :cool:
Thanks guys.
My friend is one of those people that will always watch my back even when times are rough. A rifle is the least I can do. :cool:
At least then he will have something to watch your back with. :)
I'd say build the rifle. It's fun, and you end up with something good for all the parts, versus the money, which never goes where planned from part sales. If you give it to your friend, now you have a friend that can shoot with you as well.
Edit: What are your concerns with the YHM CMV barrel?
At least then he will have something to watch your back with. :)
I'd say build the rifle. It's fun, and you end up with something good for all the parts, versus the money, which never goes where planned from part sales. If you give it to your friend, now you have a friend that can shoot with you as well.
Edit: What are your concerns with the YHM CMV barrel?
With regard to the barrel, I'm pretty sure its not mil-spec steel nor is it stress/MPI tested. Other than that I've read some threads on TOS indicating that, for all intents and purposes, it shoots pretty well.
It's not intended as a HD or match-grade weapon, so I suspect it should be fine for a plinker.
Should I go ahead and build the fifth rifle as a plinker or sell the parts?
Here's what I have for the build:
BCM flat top upper (ordered from BCM, but no markings other than keyhole forging from Cerro) with M4 feed ramps.
RRA lower with RRA LPK
RRA CAR collapsible stock, commercial spec with RRA CAR buffer and spring
YHM lightweight rifle length FF rail
YHM 20" CMV barrel, chrome lined 1:7 twist.
Smith Vortex flash suppressor
VLTOR low profile GB. Will be set screw type and taper pinned.
If i was in your shoes this is what i would keep and sell, BOLD = Sell
If i was in your shoes this is what i would keep and sell, BOLD = Sell
I considered the same thing except for the RRA lower as I think it's fine and fits quite nicely with the BCM upper. I have enough lower parts from G&R to replace the RRA stuff except for the FCG. I'd probably purchase Colt parts for that.
On a somewhat related note, it's amazing how easy it is to remove and replace lower parts with the right roll pin holders, pin punches, vice blocks, etc.
With regard to the barrel, I'm pretty sure its not mil-spec steel nor is it stress/MPI tested. Other than that I've read some threads on TOS indicating that, for all intents and purposes, it shoots pretty well.
It's not intended as a HD or match-grade weapon, so I suspect it should be fine for a plinker.
I hope it's halfway decent, I just kind of got stuck with one. There just wasn't anything else available that wasn't stainless. I didn't want stainless, so YHM it was. When I can get a Sabre Defense or one of those nice Centurions for the build, I'll swap it out, but it may be a year before I can get my paws on one. I figured the YHM couldn't be too bad for the price as a temporary solution. :) It seems to be made well enough.
I hope it's halfway decent, I just kind of got stuck with one. There just wasn't anything else available that wasn't stainless. I didn't want stainless, so YHM it was. When I can get a Sabre Defense or one of those nice Centurions for the build, I'll swap it out, but it may be a year before I can get my paws on one. I figured the YHM couldn't be too bad for the price as a temporary solution. :) It seems to be made well enough.
Ditto here. I purchased mine whan that's all I could find, didn't want to wait and didn't know why I should have waited. I wasn't keen on a 20" either, but again that was all that was available. Pretty cool looking fluting on it, though. If it doesn't shoot worth a crap it'll make an attractive tomato stake :D
I'm leaning toward gifting it rather than selling the parts for top tier stuff. I'll let you know how it shoots.
Ditto here. I purchased mine whan that's all I could find, didn't want to wait and didn't know why I should have waited. I wasn't keen on a 20" either, but again that was all that was available. Pretty cool looking fluting on it, though. If it doesn't shoot worth a crap it'll make an attractive tomato stake :D
I'm leaning toward gifting it rather than selling the parts for top tier stuff. I'll let you know how it shoots.
You will if you beat me to it. :) If my grease comes in tomorrow, I'm finishing the build Saturday and going to the range. I'll need to test it anyway before I get into too much tuning. I don't like some of the parts I got this time. I ended up with a really grubby selector switch, and some other parts that need polishing. I don't think I can save the switch without cutting too deep, but the rest should be fixable. That switch feels like sandpaper... Yuk... Good thing they are cheap.
the only thing i dont like about your parts list is the YHM handguard- everything else is good to go, brother. build it, shoot it, love it like a bastard son.
Well, it is essentially done. I still need a flash suppressor and some sights, as well as the rail guards, but the rifle assembly itself is completed. Like I said, I've got a couple more things to do, but minus one point and the flash suppressor, it's ready to test.
I've got to get in there and find just what the heck is scratching up my brass, though. I've got a burr somewhere that I missed, or something of the like.
For now, though, here is the picture.
Well, it is essentially done. I still need a flash suppressor and some sights, as well as the rail guards, but the rifle assembly itself is completed. Like I said, I've got a couple more things to do, but minus one point and the flash suppressor, it's ready to test.
I've got to get in there and find just what the heck is scratching up my brass, though. I've got a burr somewhere that I missed, or something of the like.
For now, though, here is the picture.
Very nice. He he, your upper receiver was more than the barrel :D
Indeed it looks like you beat to the range! I've decided to Duracoat my "gift" so it will be a little while longer. Not wanting to do a half-assed job, I purchased a dual action airbrush and a compressor. Why do I do these things :confused:
Where are you getting the scratches?
Very nice. He he, your upper receiver was more than the barrel :D
Indeed it looks like you beat to the range! I've decided to Duracoat my "gift" so it will be a little while longer. Not wanting to do a half-assed job, I purchased a dual action airbrush and a compressor. Why do I do these things :confused:
Where are you getting the scratches?
Clean from the tip of the bullet down the side of the case. I haven't had a chance to check it yet, though. I just cycle a couple, they were a bit rough, and I noticed the scratches. Something is obviously biting them, though.
And yes, sadly I know that the upper was more than the barrel. :) Darn near twice as much, actually, but it sure looks good up there. I'll get my Sabre Defense eventually.
Got a better look at it earlier, but I still didn't have time to really check it out.
The copper jacket is being marred. It isn't horrible, but it's definately catching on it's way up to the chamber, or perhaps on it's way in. It is hard to tell for now, but it's catching more than it should, I just don't know on what yet. Instead of the light, longer scratch normally associated with such things, it is a twisting, shorter series of stepped abrasions. Not terminally deep, but deep enough to feel.
Upon secondary inspection, the scratches on the brass cases aren't too bad. It's the copper that's being eaten more than anything else. I'm going to cycle a few more through when I have a chance and see where it's building up at. If I can get some marking ink, I'll check it with that as well. I'm sure I'll sort it out.
I've got an incredibly good fit between the upper and lower, with no movement at all. The pins run fine as well. This thing is solid as a rock. In fact, it makes my new Rock River feel like a beat up GI model. I'd love to say it was due to my handiwork, but I just got lucky this time. I was prepared to do some fitting, but it was entirely unnecessary.
It functions when hand cycled, just not as slick as it could. The action is fine and slick, just the feeding is a little rough. I believe it is safe to test fire as it is, so long as I am careful to make sure it cycles properly.
The brass sounds like it is okay.
Are you sure the copper is getting scratched on the way in? You indicate the rounds are catching on something, so are they actually binding or is this based on the scratches you're seeing? Bullet scratches on extraction are normal since the extractor pulls the round out at an angle, thereby contacting the lugs in the barrel extension. Non issue when the bullet exits the barrel, of course. Small scratches on insertion are not a big deal either. I suspect you know these things, though.
If not, an easy way to check in vs. out is to remove the mag, open the bolt and place a clean round in the chamber manually, then close the bolt and extract it. Check and compare to the other(s) you've already cycled.
If they are scratching/binding on the way in, I would first check the mags. Try different mags and load one round at a time versus stacking to see if there are any differences.
The brass sounds like it is okay.
Are you sure the copper is getting scratched on the way in? You indicate the rounds are catching on something, so are they actually binding or is this based on the scratches you're seeing? Bullet scratches on extraction are normal since the extractor pulls the round out at an angle, thereby contacting the lugs in the barrel extension. Non issue when the bullet exits the barrel, of course. Small scratches on insertion are not a big deal either. I suspect you know these things, though.
If not, an easy way to check in vs. out is to remove the mag, open the bolt and place a clean round in the chamber manually, then close the bolt and extract it. Check and compare to the other(s) you've already cycled.
If they are scratching/binding on the way in, I would first check the mags. Try different mags and load one round at a time versus stacking to see if there are any differences.
Yeah, I know. :) I'm always overly critical on a build. It isn't happening on extraction, I did check that. Still that's a great point to have in this thread.
I just pulled her out of the safe, cycled a few, and checked it with a flashlight. They are clearly being buggered on the feed ramps. I'll have to get in there and check it all, but the ramps themselves look fine from a cursory inspection. They are aligned properly. No burrs on them either.
I've used several types of mags and several types of ammunition, with the same result for each.
Point of impact on the ramps is in the barrel extension cut, not the receiver cut. That's where they are being scratched up. Oh, well, it will give me something to sort out. :)
Well, the gift is nearly finished. Below was my Duracoat mockup using Paintshop. Please excuse the crude drawing and out of scale handguard (too short):
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn176/Dr_Wolfenstein/ARs/car153_FDE_black.jpg
I used Duracoat's Magpul FDE. This was my first Duracoat experience and was not too painful. Having an airbrush and compressor made painting a breeze. One thing to note- do not paint the gas block area beforehand. That includes the area in front of the block. Sliding the block on was impossible and I had to sand and use Acetone to remove the coating. Unfortunately, the color was not a perfect match to Magpul's sights and rail covers, but I guess its close enough. I thought about painting the accessories, but I'll wait to see if I decide on a Magpul stock.
'The nearly finished and painted rifle:
http://s304.photobucket.com/albums/nn176/Dr_Wolfenstein/ARs/allbutrearsights_sm.jpg
The FDE color is way off and washed out in the photo and looks much better in person. Obviously, I need the rear MBUS. It will most likely get some kind of scope, but I think I'll let my buddy assist with that decision.
Color is a little better in this image:
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn176/Dr_Wolfenstein/ARs/First_two_sm.jpg
The parts:
RRA lower
RRA commercial spec, 6 position CAR buttstock. I staked the piss out of the endplate. I'll probably have to cut off the castle nut to remove it.
G&R lower parts with RRA FCG (for now, Colt stuff on order)
Magpul trigger guard
BCM upper
BCM BCG
BCM charging handle (not in the pic)
YHM lightweight handguard
YHM CMV 1:7 chrome lined and fluted 20" barrel
VLTOR low profile GB
Vortex
Magpul MBUS and rail covers (more on order)
Some have commented on the handguard, but it seems fine to me. It's really light for a rifle length piece and install was a breeze. I'm not crazy about the set screws (which received generous dabs of blue Loctite), but at least the handguard lock ring is on nice and tight. The handguard finish looks a bit crude compared with the BCM upper. BTW, the finish on the upper is the best I've seen on any. Bravo BCM (pun intended)!
I may change the buffer tube to milspec and, as I mentioned, go with another stock. However, I think we'll plink with it for now. I'm definitely going to change the pistol grip to Magpul MOE or MAID as that seems to fit my hand better. My buddy has large hands too, so I'm sure he'll prefer that as well.
Lastly, I could use some sling mount advice. I prefer two point Vickers with QD mounts, but the YHM handguard is tapped distally for their pivot mount. I guess could easily go with a rail mounted QD too. Not sure about the rear either- perhaps the TD (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Tango-Down-PR-4-Rear-Sling-Mount-p/tango%20down%20pr-4.htm) mounted at the end plate? Does the buttstock mounted MI piece (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Midwest-Industries-MCTAR-10-p/mctar-10.htm)make sense for a 20" rifle?
Well, after verifying the safety and test firing the new carbine under careful operation, I put 60 rounds out of it the other day.
It functions flawlessly, and cycles very smoothly. I'm attributing the scratched bullets to the M-4 ramps, which I have less experience with, especially on a new build. The ramps are the only point of impact, and they are smooth as silk. I'm going to break the springs in a bit and see if the impact doesn't soften up with wear. I'm thinking that she's fine.
The brass ends up in a neat little area, as well. It looks like it all came together beautifully.
If you ever want to get rid of the YHM barrel let me know. I'll take it off your hands.
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