Pistol Receiver Extensions

[Texpatriate]

Okie Dokie, so it seems like my options for pistol receiver extensions are ACE, RRA, and Spike's Tactical. It looks like it's no problem to order just the "tube", plate, and castle nut without the buffer, spring, etc. from ACE, but I'm having a hard time locating the same type package without the spring and buffer from RRA or Spike's. I found one site that is selling just the RRA tube for only $35, but of course they're out of stock. I can't even find them for sale on Rock River's site.

Anybody know where I can find what I'm looking for? Also, any guidance on which system is better than the others: ACE, RRA, or Spike's? I like the looks and price (if I could find one in stock) of the RRA extension, but looks can be deceiving.

This is going to be for a BCM 11.5" pistol build, that I eventually intend to convert to an SBR.

[Texpatriate]

Anyone? Anyone? Bueler? Anyone?

Well, after some persistence in calling the folk at RRA, I was able to get through to order one of their pistol receiver extensions. It was RRA part #AR0113P and it was only $25 plus shipping, so I decided it was my most affordable option and it seems like a sturdy setup from what I can tell.

From my understanding, the "nub" on the receiver end plate will have to be ground off to be used with this receiver extension. So, shouldn't a Magpul ASAP work without modification, if I don't use the little locking key piece?

[PlatoCATM]

What exactly are the steps of relabeling a pistol receiver to make it into a rifle? I've never heard of this being done before.

[freakshow10mm]

Labeling or engraving doesn't mean a damn thing.

[Texpatriate]

What exactly are the steps of relabeling a pistol receiver to make it into a rifle? I've never heard of this being done before.

My understanding is that any stripped lower that was not originally transferred as a "rifle" on form 4473, can be configured as a pistol. It does not have to be designated or engraved as such by the manufacturer.

After being configured as a pistol, it can later be converted to a rifle configuration without any paperwork (unless it is to become an SBR). Once configured as a rifle, it has to remain as a rifle, it can never become a pistol again. Once a rifle, always a rifle.

[PlatoCATM]

Labeling or engraving doesn't mean a damn thing.

Then I guess there is no reason to engrave a receiver if I decide to SBR it. :rolleyes:

[Texpatriate]

Then I guess there is no reason to engrave a receiver if I decide to SBR it. :rolleyes:

Engraving on an SBR is required, on a pistol it is not. Just because some manufacturers engrave lowers with "PISTOL" doesn't mean it's required by law. They do it as a CYA measure against folks who slap a carbine receiver extension kit onto what they purchased as a pistol, without paying the $200 tax stamp to Uncle Sam first.

[freakshow10mm]

Then I guess there is no reason to engrave a receiver if I decide to SBR it. :rolleyes:
We are talking pistols here not Title II firearms, smartass.

[LonghunterCO]

My understanding is that any stripped lower that was not originally transferred as a "rifle" on form 4473, can be configured as a pistol. It does not have to be designated or engraved as such by the manufacturer. But will need to have never been assembled as a rifle. Virgin receiver.

After being configured as a pistol, it can later be converted to a rifle configuration without any paperwork (unless it is to become an SBR). Once configured as a rifle, it has to remain as a rifle, it can never become a pistol again. Once a rifle, always a rifle. Yep this is my understanding


See red above.

[PlatoCATM]

We are talking pistols here not Title II firearms, smartass.

Actually branding (not necessarily engraving) does matter as per the OP's response. The change from pistol to rifle or vice versa is a gray area and an arbitrary law, and I knew there was some catch but couldn't remember what it was. I encountered the issue when I was looking at a TC contender, but I opted not to bother due to uncertainty...and I still won't. All I am saying is that branding and labels do matter.

Thanks for your informative and hostile posts FS.

To the OP, I'm glad you were able to wade through all the red tape. I asked because I was interested in the legal issues, not to hijack your thread.

[freakshow10mm]

Labeling on a Title I firearm does not matter. You can engrave "registered banana" on your lower and it doesn't change a damn thing. Labeling on a Title II firearm does matter. We are discussing Title I firearms. My comment was directed at PlatoCATM's post above mine but the quote didn't take to the reply for some reason.

[Iraqgunz]

Gents,

Let's keep it civil. The OP's original question was pertaining to the receiver extension. Not engraving or whether he is in compliance with the law.

FWIW- This issue was covered fairly recently in Small Arms Review. If the receiver was sold on a 4473 as a receiver then it can be built into a pistol or a long gun. If it was sold as a rifle receiver it can be SBR'd, but not made into a pistol. Once it goes from pistol status to long gun it must remain so.

[geminidglocker]

Holy Hijack!!!! I just got a receiver extension from ACE for my build. Fit and finish are great but I don't have an upper yet(Waitning on a 10.5 Noveske) So I can't tell you how well it functions.Hope to have it finished by next month.

[larry0071]

Question for ya. When you buy a stripped lower and fill it with a LPK, and then decide to go pistol, can you order a complete 10.5" upper and put it on the lower with the pistol tube/buffer and no FFL or tax stamp issues are required?

I ask because I have 3 lowers with parts kits in them, none registered as pistol or as rifle. When I look at the various websites they all say you must have the NFA in order to purchase, but if I wish to put together a pistol version of an AR, I do not need the NFA paperwork....?

How do you buy these pistol sized barrels without the NFA paperwork?

Example at Bravo Company:
Noveske N4 Light Carbine Basic Upper Receiver Group
10.5" NFA Barrel (all NFA Rules apply)
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Noveske-N4-Light-Carbine-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/n4%20basic%2010%20urg.htm

[freakshow10mm]

No stamp is required to purchase a sub 16 inch barrel. Some companies require a copy of your stamp to verify. This is merely policy and is not a legal requirement.

[larry0071]

So if most of the companies have this policy, how in the heck can I buy a 10.5" complete upper to make a pistol out of? Are there pistol freindly dealers out there?

[spamsammich]

You need to have a lower marked "pistol" or perhaps "multi-cal" or have a lower registered as a pistol. Later if you choose, you can convert the pistol to an SBR if it is legal in your state by getting your tax stamp. As I understand the law, however, you CANNOT go back and forth with the same lower: once a rifle, always a rifle.

But, ANYONE can buy a short barreled upper, there is technically no restriction on the sale of them. The restriction is actually building them into a SBR. this is why you need a pistol marked lower.

[spamsammich]

I keep a pistol lower in my possession at all times so I can buy uppers with short barrels. I never have more than one short barreled upper at a time just because I'm paranoid.

[LOKNLOD]

The ones that say "all NFA Rules Apply" like the Bravo page are just making you aware that you must follow the NFA rules when buying and using that upper. Meaning, don't just slap it on any ol' AR lowerand call it good unless you've got an SBR'd lower. If you add a 11.5" barrel to your cart and place the order Bravo isn't going to call you up looking for your tax stamp.

[freakshow10mm]

You need to have a lower marked "pistol" or perhaps "multi-cal" or have a lower registered as a pistol.
False, false, and false. There is no federal requirement of any of those.

[spamsammich]

False, false, and false. There is no federal requirement of any of those.

Thanks for the correction, this has always been foggy for me. Why bother registering a lower as a pistol or marking them? Wait, I corrected myself later in that post, the restriction is for actually building and not on the purchase, right?

[larry0071]

You need to have a lower marked "pistol" or perhaps "multi-cal" or have a lower registered as a pistol.

Yea, my class 3 FFL told me when I purchased 4 lowers from him a few months back that I could later decide if and when I want to build a pistol.... what of the lowers I wanted to use. He was very sure of himself that you do not need to make that choice with a lower until the day you actually build it.

He claimed that only if a OEM assembled a lower as a pistol would it need to have been marked as a pistol. For all of us hobbiests we just do it.

I'm asking because it is so confusing!

With the pistol PICs check thing and the registration in the state of PA that exists in real life, but legally does not exist..... I imagine when I choose a lower to assemble as a pistol, I should go back to the gun store and re-do the stupid $25 registration/PICs deal so that it is legally a lower in the illegal database.

[freakshow10mm]

So people (read LE) don't think it's a SBR. Registering a receiver as a pistol receiver doesn't mean anything to the ATF. It's a receiver plain and simple.

[larry0071]

But what happens when you grab one of your random stripped lowers from the safe and buld a pistol... and a LEO tries to "Check your pistol against the database"? If I don't go back to Brown's Armory and re-register it as a for-sure, real-deal pistol... the LEO is going to think i'm a child raping, gang banging hit man for the mafia!

[freakshow10mm]

He claimed that only if a OEM assembled a lower as a pistol would it need to have been marked as a pistol.
That is also false. I'm an 07 FFL/Class 2 SOT. There is no federal requirement of 07 FFLs to mark pistols as a pistol or rifles as a rifle or shotguns as a shotgun. None. The log book must state what type of firearm was manufactured. Here are the choices recognized by the ATF:

handgun
rifle
shotgun (including pistol grip only)
machine gun
silencer
AOW
SBR
SBS
DD
frame/receiver

If the OEM states "pistol frame" or "rifle receiver" the ATF sees and recognizes that as a "frame/receiver only".

[freakshow10mm]

But what happens when you grab one of your random stripped lowers from the safe and buld a pistol... and a LEO tries to "Check your pistol against the database"? If I don't go back to Brown's Armory and re-register it as a for-sure, real-deal pistol... the LEO is going to think i'm a child raping, gang banging hit man for the mafia!
What database?

[larry0071]

In the state of PA, anytime a LEO encounters a person CC or OC a pistol, it is customary to have him state that he is going to check your pistols SN# against "the database" to make sure it is not a straw purchase or a stolen pistol.

In our state a database is illegal for the govt. to have, but how they get around it seems to have something to do with the wording..... as our data base went into effect about 25 years ago, it is not a "complete" database, and because of it not being complete (prior to the filling out paperwork to buy a pistol) the legal limitation does not hinder it's growth or use. And there are plenty of folks that have thier dad's gun from when he passed away and somehow ended up with an LEO trying to find it in "the database"... and when it is not found, they take it. You have to go to court and try to prove that you did not "straw purchase" or steal the thing.... and if you can not prove it, you loose it.

What database? Who's got a database? I don't see no stinkin data base! :rolleyes:

[spamsammich]

What database?

Yeah, we don't register our firearms...yet.

A lot of people confuse the transfer paperwork you have to do when you purchase a gun from a retailer with gun "registration".

[larry0071]

Yeah, we don't register our firearms...yet.

A lot of people confuse the transfer paperwork you have to do when you purchase a gun from a retailer with gun "registration".

We don't register them, but each one you buy/transfer gets recorded into the PA state police not-a-database.

[geminidglocker]

Wow, did this thread get off topic or what?? I wish there was a sticky about AR pistols. Everyone is just waiting to piss in each others cool-aid about legality issues and whatnot. I wish we could just talk about how to build an AR pistol. I beleive the original question was about buffer tubes, receiver extensions.:confused:

[Garandad]

I also would like to find the longest legal pistol buffer tube available. Nice if it were to be a little larger in diameter as well. I already have a 9mm carbine, and it would be nice to use all the parts to build a pistol without going the SBR route.
In the off topic vein my FFL says he can purchase my existing lower from me, log it in his books as a receiver, and sell it back to me as a pistol lower. Says he got this from BATFE, but I am leery.
All this would be solved for me if Lone Wolf Glock mag lowers actually work.

[Alaskapopo]

In the state of PA, anytime a LEO encounters a person CC or OC a pistol, it is customary to have him state that he is going to check your pistols SN# against "the database" to make sure it is not a straw purchase or a stolen pistol.

In our state a database is illegal for the govt. to have, but how they get around it seems to have something to do with the wording..... as our data base went into effect about 25 years ago, it is not a "complete" database, and because of it not being complete (prior to the filling out paperwork to buy a pistol) the legal limitation does not hinder it's growth or use. And there are plenty of folks that have thier dad's gun from when he passed away and somehow ended up with an LEO trying to find it in "the database"... and when it is not found, they take it. You have to go to court and try to prove that you did not "straw purchase" or steal the thing.... and if you can not prove it, you loose it.

What database? Who's got a database? I don't see no stinkin data base! :rolleyes:
Its not a data base of legally owned weapons rather a list of stolen weapons.
Pat