View Full Version : What just happened in N. Korea??
How did an ex potus and his current wife / sos release these two 'hostages'?? We may never know the details but I really don't like what I'm seeing here. :(
I hope I'm wrong but it sure seems like we openly just invited more terrorists into the kidnapping biz.
rickrock305
08-04-09, 22:03
your arch enemy Bill Clinton just saved two girls :D
For all his faults...he is from Arkansas. We build 'em right down here.
He probably put Kim Dong Ill in a choke hold.
(or you know....it could have already been staged and setup before he even left for Korea)
Bill will do ANYTHING to get two hot chicks.
Bill will do ANYTHING to get two hot chicks.
I grinned a bit when the news anchor said that the ladies would be leaving with Bill...on his private jet. lol.
They were probably planning to release them, as the women were kept in a prison near Pyongyang and not sent to a labor camp as sentenced. As bruce pointed out, Bill's negotiation was likely more for show. Besides, as ex-president, it's not like he has a lot of leverage.
Kim Jong Il probably settled for a photo-op with the prez:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0804/csmimg/ANKBILL_P1.jpg
He'll need a cigar tin for each hand:D
Kim Jong Il probably settled for a photo-op with the prez:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0804/csmimg/ANKBILL_P1.jpg
The delight is written all over his face.
What would your face look like if your wife told you to visit North Korea?
What would your face look like if your wife told you to visit North Korea?
If my wife was Hillary?
Smiling ear to ear, lol.
NK didn't intend to keep the girls, as they didn't intend to keep the crew of the USS Pueblo. It's the same politics today as it was 40 years ago.
Billary played right into Ding Dong Ill's hands. He got the attention he wanted before he croaks, showing whoever his protege is going to be on how to get the big round eyes to grovel at his feet! Every useful idiot has a purpose. This should have been Al Goreleone's job! It was his employees! I bet Ding Dong has a lot of secret videos of the two to watch until he takes his dirt nap.
Ridge_Runner_5
08-05-09, 01:10
North Korea won. All they want is attention. We have been focusing on our economy and Afghanistan....they threw a tantrum, Slick Willy gave them the attention they craved, so they let those people go..
Kindergarten politics...
We get our folks back and they "won"? What, would you rather Bill stayed at home and the girls stayed in prison so they wouldn't "win"?
Guy goes over there and comes back with two US Cits who ****ed up and went in there in the first place and he did something wrong? As a father, I for one appreciate whatever the **** he did to get those two young women back.
Kim Jong Il probably respects the hell out of Bill Clinton for being able to do whatever he wanted - cheat on his wife, cheat with an intern in the oval office, etc. - and get away with it even after he got caught.
Like any good conman and liar, there is honor among thieves.
I like how Pillsbury Spokesboy Gibbs made it clear that Clinton had no message from Obama or the administration for Kim Jong Il, and Bill was simply on a personal mission. Yeah, right. Gibbs is paid to lie, and he's about the worst liar I've ever seen.
Business_Casual
08-05-09, 09:04
North Korea won. All they want is attention. We have been focusing on our economy and Afghanistan....they threw a tantrum, Slick Willy gave them the attention they craved, so they let those people go..
Kindergarten politics...
Exactly. NK seeks legitimacy, and Clinton provided it in quantity if not quality.
Once again, the boy wonders in Washington show how over their heads they are dealing with the rest of the world.
M_P
As a father, I for one appreciate whatever the **** he did to get those two young women back.
Does this view apply to all of those being held against their will by hostiles looking to extort? Interested in knowing what NK got in return besides a photo op? Or do you really think this was just about getting Kim getting to spend a few minutes with Clinton?
We should have taken out a port or something via cruise missile, not sent a President to play with his little di*k.
The only good part is that it clarifies how inept and irrelevant Obama is right now.
Cruise missiles might elicit a nuclear response or invasion of S. Korea. We don't need that kind of trouble right now.
I think it's clear that Obama gave Bill a message to deliver to Kim - something along the lines of we will leave you alone with your nuclear weapons if you stop being a dickhead and pulling stupid stunts like this.
That's exactly the kind of thing I would expect from Obama. Capitulate and promise no action to prevent nuclear proliferation in a rogue state in return for two people. While I applaud getting two Americans back home, I guess the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" policy is long gone.
Besides, there would be no reason to deny a message was sent unless it really happened...
I like how Pillsbury Spokesboy Gibbs made it clear that Clinton had no message from Obama or the administration for Kim Jong Il, and Bill was simply on a personal mission. Yeah, right. Gibbs is paid to lie, and he's about the worst liar I've ever seen.
This is what really bugs me....of course, 'ill's' run news agency said it was glad to receive obama's personal message from billy.
Again, I don't think we will ever know for sure but I personally don't see that nut giving two gals over just for a photo op.
It clearly gives a picture to me that the admin is willing to negotiate (in the media) with bad guys. I'm glad the gals got out too but worried it could lead to more of the same.
Maybe you're not familiar with the term terrorist, but imprisoning folks and putting them on (a rigged) trial isn't exactly terrorism. Should we have not negotiated with Singapore for the release of Michael Fay? or with China for the numerous political refugees they imprison? Or the Iranians over the reporter they recently released? Let's just go to war with every country over Americans they imprison under shady circumstances.
We sent a worthless ex-president (instead of anyone with any official capacity to negotiate) and got two Americans released. Letting two Americans rot in prison so you can play political games, or worse, bomb their country, would be the inept thing to do. North Korea is a pretty legitimate country - their nukes kind of make it that way. A visit by a figurehead isn't going to change anything.
Like a lot of folks I am very happy that those 2 women have been freed, but I wondeer what price we paid. The NoK's haven't done anything for free, ever. They've also never lived up to any agreement, ever. IMO this just made it that much more likely that the NoK's will do this again in a year or 3.
Maybe you're not familiar with the term terrorist, but imprisoning folks and putting them on (a rigged) trial isn't exactly terrorism. Should we have not negotiated with Singapore for the release of Michael Fay? or with China for the numerous political refugees they imprison? Or the Iranians over the reporter they recently released? Let's just go to war with every country over Americans they imprison under shady circumstances.
We sent a worthless ex-president (instead of anyone with any official capacity to negotiate) and got two Americans released. Letting two Americans rot in prison so you can play political games, or worse, bomb their country, would be the inept thing to do. North Korea is a pretty legitimate country - their nukes kind of make it that way. A visit by a figurehead isn't going to change anything.
I was kidding (sort of) when I suggested we destroy a port, but not so when expressing disdain for the overall situation. Again, it was not all we see. Surely there were terms involved here, and that is simply catering to the bad guys for being bad.
A compromise with the devil, if you will.
North Korea is a known rogue state that is believed to sponsor terrorism. Sponsoring it is the same as perpetrating it, and that has been the official position of the US Government since 9/11, although Obama is changing that as we speak.
I would rather our President had the guts to send an official representative to negotiate their release. Sending Clinton and claiming it was a personal mission of his with no official standing, and with no messages or terms communicated from the administration is a pure cop out and makes no sense whatsoever.
Are we to believe what Gibbs is telling us that Clinton got them freed because he's a swell guy and there was nothing else to it? That's so absurd it's laughable.
We are getting this message because Obama doesn't want to admit what the terms are, and that means we are going to be complicit in something that would look bad if it was publicly known. From that point you can read between the lines.
I don't think North Korea will ever launch a nuclear attack against South Korea or the US because they will surely be annihilated. There position is purely defensive from an official point of view. But what happens when one of their nukes ends up in the hands of extremists for the right price?
Submariner
08-05-09, 13:49
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh_9QhRzJEs
rickrock305
08-05-09, 14:17
North Korea is a known rogue state that is believed to sponsor terrorism. Sponsoring it is the same as perpetrating it, and that has been the official position of the US Government since 9/11, although Obama is changing that as we speak.
N. Korea was removed from the official State Sponsors of Terrorism list in October of last year.
http://www.state.gov/s/ct/c14151.htm
In fact Hillary Clinton has made some recent statements about putting N. Korea back on the list.
http://flapsblog.com/2009/06/07/hillary-clinton-united-states-may-relist-north-korea-as-terrorist-state/
I would rather our President had the guts to send an official representative to negotiate their release. Sending Clinton and claiming it was a personal mission of his with no official standing, and with no messages or terms communicated from the administration is a pure cop out and makes no sense whatsoever.
what about the other side of the coin? do you believe Kim Jong Il would have allowed their release through an official US government action? it looks better for him to negotiate with a private party than it would the official US government.
it makes plenty of sense actually.
Looking for something to say "Gotcha" about, instead of just being happy to see two Americans released from custody is exactly what will keep the current mindset/administration running the show for decades to come.
Unless there is some concrete evidence that we gave NK a dozen F22 Raptors and a thousand nukes to barter this deal, then just leave it alone.
This type of belly-aching distracts us all from more important issues. And NO damnit, Im am NOT talking about obama's birth certificate!!!:rolleyes:
Well, at least we can be thankful that Obama didn't send Jimmy Carter!
For all his faults...he is from Arkansas. We build 'em right down here.
He probably put Kim Dong Ill in a choke hold.
(or you know....it could have already been staged and setup before he even left for Korea)
The news report I read said basically yes, it had been set up before he left except for a few minor details. He was the face to it to make it a PR success for NK and BHO
Bill Clinton= The new Jimmy Carter
They were probably planning to release them, as the women were kept in a prison near Pyongyang and not sent to a labor camp as sentenced. As bruce pointed out, Bill's negotiation was likely more for show. Besides, as ex-president, it's not like he has a lot of leverage.
Kim Jong Il probably settled for a photo-op with the prez:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0804/csmimg/ANKBILL_P1.jpg
I love how anywhere else in the world this would happen the chairs would be nice plush fancy chairs in an immaculately furnished room...
Looking for something to say "Gotcha" about, instead of just being happy to see two Americans released from custody is exactly what will keep the current mindset/administration running the show for decades to come.
Unless there is some concrete evidence that we gave NK a dozen F22 Raptors and a thousand nukes to barter this deal, then just leave it alone.
This type of belly-aching distracts us all from more important issues. And NO damnit, Im am NOT talking about obama's birth certificate!!!:rolleyes:
There are so many fundamental flaws with this post I really don't know where to begin. We gave in to a belligerent, evil bully deserving of an immense beating who's ass we could in fact kick all over the field. Period.
To what extent we caved has yet to be determined, but we most certainly did compromise in some way.
Two now safe but still dopey civilians caught wandering around where they don't belong does not offset horrible foreign policy.
rickrock305
08-05-09, 21:21
Kinda interesting...
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99SSVU80&show_article=1
A wealthy Hollywood producer paid for the flight that carried former President Bill Clinton and two American journalists home from North Korea, a California businessman confirmed Wednesday.
Stephen Bing, a close Clinton friend and longtime Democratic fundraiser, is the plane's owner, said Marc Foulkrod of Burbank, Calif., chairman of Avjet Corp., the company that manages the aircraft.
Foulkrod said the Federal Aviation Administration "at the highest levels" cleared the flight plan, which required an exception because U.S. planes are not allowed to fly into North Korea.
The effort to set up and clear the flight only started four to five days ago, he said, adding that officials in Washington worked through the weekend to get the necessary diplomatic and flight exemptions.
Heir to a New York real estate fortune, Bing raised at least $100,000 for Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign, in addition to giving the maximum $2,300. He also donated at least $10 million to Bill Clinton's presidential library and charitable foundation.
Bing was a multimillion-dollar donor to pro-Democratic groups that ran ads against Republican President George W. Bush in the 2004 campaign. He also donated at least $5 million to pay for a new Democratic National Committee headquarters in 2002, when Clinton loyalist Terry McAuliffe headed the party.
Bing contributed $40.1 million of the total $45.7 million raised to support a failed 2006 California ballot initiative that sought to tax companies drilling for oil in California. Bing's contributions were funneled through his Shangri-La Entertainment company.
Bing produced "Shine A Light," a 2008 Martin Scorcese documentary of a Rolling Stones performance filmed at Bill Clinton's 60th birthday party in New York. He also produced the film "Beowulf" (2007) and financed the film "The Polar Express" (2004).
Calls to Shangri-la Entertainment and Bing's publicist were not immediately returned.
Foulkrod said the costs for the flight have not yet been tallied but would be significant.
"It was a very unique set of organizational efforts that resulted in a level of cooperation that was unprecedented," Foulkrod told The Associated Press.
The plane flew from Burbank to Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska, then to Misawa Air Base in Japan_ refueling in both places_ and then went on to North Korea, said Foulkrod. On the way back it had enough fuel to skip Elmendorf, flying from Misawa directly to Burbank.
Robb Jensen
08-05-09, 21:52
Their lives were saved this is good. However N. Korea should be glass...... Just my opinion.
Thomas M-4
08-05-09, 21:58
Their lives were saved this is good. However N. Korea should be glass...... Just my opinion.
+1
Please somebody correct me if I am wrong But it seems like I remember Bill said that when he was president that we were just weeks from invading N. Korea because of there nuclear program HMMMM I see a pattern we just keep paying now for his lack of action then.
You'll excuse me when I say you don't have a ****ing clue. Hostiles looking to extort? They crossed the border of a sovereign nation illegally and got caught. Period. They are lucky that they are home enjoying a cold drink and good American air and not knee deep in a labor camp in the country whose borders they violated. Bomb a nation because two individuals illegally crossed their borders and were arrested. That's your idea of foreign policy? You've got to be ****ing kidding me.
Does this view apply to all of those being held against their will by hostiles looking to extort? Interested in knowing what NK got in return besides a photo op? Or do you really think this was just about getting Kim getting to spend a few minutes with Clinton?
We should have taken out a port or something via cruise missile, not sent a President to play with his little di*k.
The only good part is that it clarifies how inept and irrelevant Obama is right now.
The delight is written all over his face.
Man he is a real little turd .
I grinned a bit when the news anchor said that the ladies would be leaving with Bill...on his private jet. lol.
So many jokes going around at work yesterday during lunch when we saw that on Fox News, if there was ever something I could like about Bill its his way with the ladies.:D
You'll excuse me when I say you don't have a ****ing clue. Hostiles looking to extort? They crossed the border of a sovereign nation illegally and got caught. Period. They are lucky that they are home enjoying a cold drink and good American air and not knee deep in a labor camp in the country whose borders they violated. Bomb a nation because two individuals illegally crossed their borders and were arrested. That's your idea of foreign policy? You've got to be ****ing kidding me.
Why don't you take a deep breath and stop making yourself look so foolish, my friend? A bit less profanity would be great as well.
First, you should have read my second post before making the statement you did above. Also, twelve years in a hard labor camp for a foreign citizen who briefly crossed the border for obvious journalistic purposes is in itself a crime. Or maybe you believe the sentence was just?
Second, and the much bigger picture (which continues to evade you), if you don't think that we gave into an extremely hostile, terrorist backing nation to get these two women returned then you are living in a cave.
Perhaps gain a better understanding of foreign policy and events, then chime back in when more informed.
rickrock305
08-06-09, 14:44
so what did we give in? or are you just assuming that?
The_War_Wagon
08-06-09, 15:57
We traded arms for hostages (i.e. - North Korea now has American missile technology, and the Obama '12 Campaign Fund suddenly has a $100,000,000 jump start to it!). :mad:
WHY do you think they sent WJC? Who do YOU think TAUGHT this gameplan to his Oneness? :rolleyes:
rickrock305
08-06-09, 17:11
We traded arms for hostages (i.e. - North Korea now has American missile technology, and the Obama '12 Campaign Fund suddenly has a $100,000,000 jump start to it!). :mad:
WHY do you think they sent WJC? Who do YOU think TAUGHT this gameplan to his Oneness? :rolleyes:
anything to back that up? or just making up facts out of thin air?
anything to back that up? or just making up facts out of thin air?
Common sense is all that one needs to know that something was compromised.
Don't you have dresses to hem?
Let's not forget there was a lot of shady stuff going on between China and Clinton, including the illegal contributions funneled to him through fronts, and the export of aerospace machine tools and other technology that could be used in the development and construction of missile technology. North Korea probably gets help from China on a lot of stuff, as they did during the Korean War.
rickrock305
08-06-09, 20:51
Common sense is all that one needs to know that something was compromised.
Don't you have dresses to hem?
ok, so what was compromised?
maybe it was worth the lives of those two women?
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