Buffer: Do I understand correctly?

[rmecapn]

I'm cheap. I like quality, but I want it at the lowest price possible. So, if I buy a H3 buffer and pull out the 3 tungsten weights. Then replace the standard weight in a standard buffer with one of the tungsten weights, then I have a H buffer, correct? Then, if I take the 3 standard weights and put them all in the empty H3 buffer, I'll have a standard buffer, correct?

This seems like a relatively inexpensive way to get three each H and one standard buffer for the price of a H3. So, am wrong in my analysis here?

[Rickenbacker53]

I'm cheap. I like quality, but I want it at the lowest price possible. So, if I buy a H3 buffer and pull out the 3 tungsten weights. Then replace the standard weight in a standard buffer with one of the tungsten weights, then I have a H buffer, correct? Then, if I take the 3 standard weights and put them all in the empty H3 buffer, I'll have a standard buffer, correct?

This seems like a relatively inexpensive way to get three each H and one standard buffer for the price of a H3. So, am wrong in my analysis here? LOL. Do you have the tools to do this job? I have never done it but I have a sneaking suspicion if it was the easy thing to do, you'd have seen it done in some form of a kit you could purchase. I'll be will to bet you need the right punches and it's a real pain. By the time your done your at the price to buy the extra buffers. I say this because most people that do all these one time things on their own have the tools from other jobs.

I learned long time ago. It doesn't pay to be cheap as a rule. The guys who do it aren't cheap. They have spent good money on the right tools. But it wasn't cheap. It's just what they like to to. Tinker. Your trying to cut corners and save a few bucks. 99.99% Odds you'll have a problem. Maybe an expert will answer I admit this is just a guess.

[rmecapn]

LOL. Do you have the tools to do this job? ... Your trying to cut corners and save a few bucks. 99.99% Odds you'll have a problem. Maybe an expert will answer I admit this is just a guess.

First, I'm surprised at the lack of response to this thread. I am quite confused at that.

Two, I got the idea from this thread (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6827). The only tool necessary is a roll pin punch, that I can see and I do have the punch. I was trying to validate the assertion in that thread, that the only difference is indeed the tungsten vs. standard steel for the weights.

Three, I was encouraged by this thread (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35552) that this idea might actually be quite viable. Since the OP in that thread was doing essentially what I am about to do.

FWIW, I ordered the H3 on Friday. We'll see how it goes. I am fairly confident that I'll end up with 3 H and a standard buffer from the 3 standard and a H3 that I start with, regardless of the lack of response to this thread. And I will have saved myself about $70 when I am done. That's pretty close to the price of a M4 buttstock assembly, which I need for the lower I am putting together.

[chevelle502]

I'm cheap. I like quality, but I want it at the lowest price possible. So, if I buy a H3 buffer and pull out the 3 tungsten weights. Then replace the standard weight in a standard buffer with one of the tungsten weights, then I have a H buffer, correct? Then, if I take the 3 standard weights and put them all in the empty H3 buffer, I'll have a standard buffer, correct?

This seems like a relatively inexpensive way to get three each H and one standard buffer for the price of a H3. So, am wrong in my analysis here?
all you need is a hammer and a punch.its simply.

[Fireglock]

You buy 1 H3 buffer for 38.00, or you buy 3 H buffers for 69.00, how do you save 70.00?

I assume you need 3 H buffers and that you have 3 carbine buffers since you only mentioned 1 carbine and 1 H3 to come up with 4 buffers.

[Captains1911]

I'm cheap. I like quality, but I want it at the lowest price possible. So, if I buy a H3 buffer and pull out the 3 tungsten weights. Then replace the standard weight in a standard buffer with one of the tungsten weights, then I have a H buffer, correct? Then, if I take the 3 standard weights and put them all in the empty H3 buffer, I'll have a standard buffer, correct?

This seems like a relatively inexpensive way to get three each H and one standard buffer for the price of a H3. So, am wrong in my analysis here?

so you already own 3 standard buffer assemblies, each of which you plan to turn into H buffers, correct? Sounds like you've got it right.

[PRGGodfather]

Yes, you have it right, provided you already the carbine buffers and you want to add weights from the H3 you bought.

[Rickenbacker53]

First, I'm surprised at the lack of response to this thread. I am quite confused at that.

Two, I got the idea from this thread (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6827). The only tool necessary is a roll pin punch, that I can see and I do have the punch. I was trying to validate the assertion in that thread, that the only difference is indeed the tungsten vs. standard steel for the weights.

Three, I was encouraged by this thread (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35552) that this idea might actually be quite viable. Since the OP in that thread was doing essentially what I am about to do.

FWIW, I ordered the H3 on Friday. We'll see how it goes. I am fairly confident that I'll end up with 3 H and a standard buffer from the 3 standard and a H3 that I start with, regardless of the lack of response to this thread. And I will have saved myself about $70 when I am done. That's pretty close to the price of a M4 buttstock assembly, which I need for the lower I am putting together. Ill be curious to see how it goes. Please let us know

[rmecapn]

so you already own 3 standard buffer assemblies, each of which you plan to turn into H buffers, correct? Sounds like you've got it right.

Correct. I have three AR's with carbine length gas systems. I have put FA carriers in them, but I wanted to also add the H buffers to increase reliability and durability. The remaining standard buffer will go towards a mid-length build that I have in the works.


You buy 1 H3 buffer for 38.00, or you buy 3 H buffers for 69.00, how do you save 70.00?


Good point, bad math on my part. The savings is about $30.

[khc3]

all you need is a hammer and a punch.its simply.

How do you get the rubber bumper out?

I tried it once, and that thing wasn't coming out at all. I tried to use pliers, but the shape of it made it impossible to pull it out without gouging the hell out of it.

I ended up just dremeling the buffer body apart to get at the goodies inside.

Did I just have a tough one, or is there some trick to get the bumper out?

[Captains1911]

How do you get the rubber bumper out?

I tried it once, and that thing wasn't coming out at all. I tried to use pliers, but the shape of it made it impossible to pull it out without gouging the hell out of it.

I ended up just dremeling the buffer body apart to get at the goodies inside.

Did I just have a tough one, or is there some trick to get the bumper out?

Did you remove the roll pin before trying to pull the end off?

[Thomas M-4]

How do you get the rubber bumper out?

I tried it once, and that thing wasn't coming out at all. I tried to use pliers, but the shape of it made it impossible to pull it out without gouging the hell out of it.

I ended up just dremeling the buffer body apart to get at the goodies inside.

Did I just have a tough one, or is there some trick to get the bumper out?

Once you have the roll pin out I use a razor blade and carefully push into joint were the nylon bumper meets the metal buffer then carefully pry up the bumper and work my way around the circumference of the buffer.

[lanceriley]

removing the rubber is easy. looking for raw tungsten is hard.

Im in the Philippines by the way... no H buffer in stock!
tried stainless steel. very little weight difference.
anybody know any other kind of heavier material aside from tungsten?
I might have to replace all 3 steel weights to make it to H buffer.
Is it possible to just make a 1 piece instead of 3piece ?

[larry0071]

Go to a machine shop that does engine crank-shaft ballance work, they will have mallory (very heavy metal) for adding to cranks. That should be much heavier than SS.

[Thomas M-4]

Larry's Idea is a good one or you could try to find some tungsten powder.
http://www.tungstenheavypowder.com/

[Thomas M-4]

Just asking if any body knows what do they use in the dead blow hammers?
I know some of them are filled with powder but I have never taken one apart to see exactly what was in it. Its an Idea that might be usable.

[lanceriley]

larry,

Im in the truck reconditioning business. It just so happens I tied up with a shop that does crank shop work. Most of the crankshaft that we had them repair was doing a weld build up... what do they use the mallory for?

thomas,

the dead blow hammer is interesting. but how do I use the powder?

[larry0071]

When you start doing high RPM race engines you have to ballance the rotating assembly. They will drill into the counterweights at an angle and them fill the holes with pressed in slugs of mallory to get the ballance correct. I had done a 540ci Ford a few years ago and they had to place multiple mallory slugs in each counter weight. I was spinning at 8,800 RPM's. The idea of drilling at an angle is because the centrifugal force will now hold the mallory in tighter as you spin it up rather than try to pull it out or leave it neutral from a straight side drill.

Any shop that does race type engines is going to have mallory on hand. It is heavy.

[Thomas M-4]

larry,

Im in the truck reconditioning business. It just so happens I tied up with a shop that does crank shop work. Most of the crankshaft that we had them repair was doing a weld build up... what do they use the mallory for?

thomas,

the dead blow hammer is interesting. but how do I use the powder?

I was stealing the idea from this http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=104_97&products_id=201

But I don't know for sure what is used in dead blow hammers?

Larry's idea would probable be more practical. I might try high perf boat shops I guessing you might have a few in your neck of the jungle.Or perf motorcycle shop might have mallory.

[larry0071]

Mallory is a very dense metal, more than twice the density of steel. A 11/42-inch-diameter, 31/44-inch-long slug of Mallory weighs 43 grams. Drilling the hole in your crankshaft removes roughly 24 grams, so the net gain is only about 19 grams.

Not sure what the buffer material is made of, but you might be able to find out what it is and be able to calculate it out. Here is the real bitch with Mallory..... I believe on my bill for that crank shaft getting Mallory metal it was listed out at somewhere around $50 PER SLUG!!!! I had over $30,000 in that engine... so in my big picture it was not a big deal.... but in a buffer that you can buy at retail for under $100..... Mallory would not be a good financial choice unless it was the only solutution available to you.

This website page has various mallory metal weights listed in a chart at the bottom:
http://www.mallory.com/english/engmats.htm

[lanceriley]

here's the thing larry. It's very hard to get decent stuffs in here. most of the ARs the gunstores sell to us. are Bushmasters and DPMS. For those who never got to the "chart" or were never informed. Feel as if they bought a rolls royce when they get their bushy and dpms. for the few who were informed... we had to be creative and find ways in getting the LMTs , noveske and colts. the buffer is really a very cheap item. too cheap to import alone.

i'll ask my machine shop friend. maybe he has a few. after all it's just a very small piece.

I think when he priced that... it was for profit hehehe.

[khc3]

Did you remove the roll pin before trying to pull the end off?

Yes, I managed to figure that part out, which was an accomplishment. :D


Once you have the roll pin out I use a razor blade and carefully push into joint were the nylon bumper meets the metal buffer then carefully pry up the bumper and work my way around the circumference of the buffer.

Thanks! I will try that next time.

[lanceriley]

no mallory. in my friend's shop. he doesn't do crankshaft balancing...

[rmecapn]

Well, the H3 got here. Getting it and the standard apart was the easy task. I'm pounding away on the buffer with a two pound sledge to get the rubber piece back in and I'm still an 1/8" away from having it flush. I'm guessing I need to use some kind of lube on the rubber piece when putting it back in place.

ETA: The metal on the buffer is some tough stuff. It made a mess of the blade on my Leatherman when I was removing the rubber piece. And that rubber/plastic piece is some tough stuff, also.

[Rickenbacker53]

Well, the H3 got here. Getting it and the standard apart was the easy task. I'm pounding away on the buffer with a two pound sledge to get the rubber piece back in and I'm still an 1/8" away from having it flush. I'm guessing I need to use some kind of lube on the rubber piece when putting it back in place.

ETA: The metal on the buffer is some tough stuff. It made a mess of the blade on my Leatherman when I was removing the rubber piece. And that rubber/plastic piece is some tough stuff, also. Can you put the buffer in a vise or a big C-Clamp and slowly crank it closed? Just a suggestion. Same with prying off the rubber bumper. Maybe if you remove another one- trying using a good set of pliers so as to pull evenly on both sides. The same thing goes with pounding it back on verses applying even force. You can't possibly be hitting it dead nuts every whack so your creating a wedge effect. To bad about the Leatherman. Another thing you could do would be to take your little plunger hydraulic jack . Find an area where you could jack the buffer against.

Once again I am giving you suggestions based on tools I have and have used for a similar purpose although not exactly the same. I hope this works out at a cost savings. Please let me know. Interested

[larry0071]

And that rubber/plastic piece is some tough stuff, also.


It is likely to be Delron, it is some very long wearing plastic type stuff that is really incredible.

I had worked for Westinghouse doing reactor inspections a while back, and the "sleds" that we stuck into the reactor via robotic manipulation was made of delron (or is it spelled Delrin?). We would rub it up and down the reactor internals for 3 days straight (the sled held the ultrasonic transducers) and then pack up and move to the next job. I never saw a sled wear out, and that is being forced against a wall, running over welds, and covering thousands and thousands of yards of steel.

I think this material is a common industrial product for long wearing plastics in many industries.

This is the sled on the SUPREME robot:

https://www.wesdyne.com/Public/images/PWR.jpg

[K.L. Davis]

Your idea is sound in theory, but my first concern is that there are a few different types of tungsten used in making buffers (dependent mostly on availability); however, the density of the tungsten used dictates the size (length) of the individual weights -- and the length of the weights (tungsten or steel) is controlled so as to allow for the proper free travel of the buffering mass...

So, if you measure the stack and ensure that you are not changing the free travel of the weights, then there should be no issue -- but if you end up changing that, it will certainly have an effect on how well you new buffer functions.

Just saying...

[rmecapn]

So, if you measure the stack and ensure that you are not changing the free travel of the weights, then there should be no issue -- but if you end up changing that, it will certainly have an effect on how well you new buffer functions.


Hooah! Thank you, sir!


Can you put the buffer in a vise or a big C-Clamp

Good idea! I will try that.

[lanceriley]

what if you just machine a 1 piece metal and fill up the tube (no banging inside)... what would be the effect?

[Todd.K]

Your buffer would become a weight.

The buffer works by slowing the rebound with sliding weights.

[rmecapn]

So, if you measure the stack and ensure that you are not changing the free travel of the weights, then there should be no issue -- but if you end up changing that, it will certainly have an effect on how well you new buffer functions.

Finally got around to measuring last night. The tungsten and standard weights were identical in diameter and length. The free travel should then be identical. I will check this as I do the last two buffers, also.