View Full Version : Upcoming M16 contract
Think this will be the usual Colt vs FN affair, or do smaller outfits such as Sabre Defence have a shot?:
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=53d52346b439e4b2f1b35c10a0648c80&tab=core&_cview=1
goodoleboy
08-11-09, 09:29
I used a FN M16A2 when I was in Basic Training. I had a couple of malfunctions with it (usually when it was filthy) and it was shot out by the time I got it. You could have probably slid a credit card (numbers and all) between the upper and lower receiver in that thing. I'm sure the Colts aren't in much better shape after undergoing the abuse of being a Basic Training Rifle (10s of 1,000s of rounds a year, bayonet training, constant abuse, destructive inspection cleaning, etc.)
Like I said, this experience was my only experience with a FN M16 platform. I AM SURE, that any weapon that could handle the Basic Combat Training environment year in and year out is a well-built weapon.
I think that the expiration of the Colt contract is going to show a new battle for the next Main Battle Rifle which may not be an M16 type and may lean toward a mosada type weapon. As far as who will compete not sure but you have to look to large arms manufacturers which have the capacity to fill orders from military services. Colt and FN obviously do and they have for years. I dont see Saber, Bushmaster, etc being able to meet demand if the won a contract as massive as DOD.
The last batch of M16A3 and M16A4 contracts were supposed to allow orders through December 31, 2010. FN, Colt, and Bushmaster were each awarded a piece of the pie back in December 2007. Bushmaster had their contract cancelled, and Colt for all intents and purposes withdrew, claiming that they had accidentally underbid. Sabre Defence got picked under the same solicitation several months later.
My guess is that Sabre's First Article Tests, which were due last month, were not to TACOM's liking. It is likely too late to tack any extra contract awards onto the 2007 solicitation, and perhaps no one else made a bid that was considered acceptable. There was significant difference in pricing between the four awardees. Colt's price was the highest of the original three awardees by a distinct margin, and Sabre's price was around $90 higher than Colt's.
My guess is that Sabre's First Article Tests, which were due last month, were not to TACOM's liking.
It looks like I might need to clean my crystal ball. A new TACOM solicitation was just posted for 3,088 M16A4 in FMS configuration. It was limited to Colt, FN, and Sabre Defence.
What about Smith and Wesson.
What about Smith and Wesson.
The three manufacturers listed above currently have M16A3/M16A4 contracts. In contrast, S&W has never produced these for the US military. If they had wanted a piece of the pie, they should have summitted a bid back in 2007 during the last open solicitation for these rifles.
FWIW: Colt's FY08 contract awoke from its coma on Monday. TACOM placed a delivery order for 5,140 M16A4 in FMS configuration (carry handle and standard handguard) for $3,546,600.
ThirdWatcher
09-16-09, 21:05
I used a FN M16A2 when I was in Basic Training. I had a couple of malfunctions with it (usually when it was filthy) and it was shot out by the time I got it. You could have probably slid a credit card (numbers and all) between the upper and lower receiver in that thing. I'm sure the Colts aren't in much better shape after undergoing the abuse of being a Basic Training Rifle (10s of 1,000s of rounds a year, bayonet training, constant abuse, destructive inspection cleaning, etc.)
Both my young warriors had the same issues (and one trained at Ft. Leonard Wood and the other at Ft. Jackson). It got so bad that I offered to send their Colt LE6920's to them (yeah, I know you can't) so they could shoot a decent score. I realize there's a war on but worn out weapons in BCT is a bit much.:confused:
When I went through BCT at Ft. Leonard Wood in 1973, our M16A1's were fairly new.
FWIW, my younger warrior just shot a perfect score (with a fairly new M16A2) a couple months ago (and she is a nurse).:)
FWIW: Colt's FY08 contract awoke from its coma on Monday. TACOM placed a delivery order for 5,140 M16A4 in FMS configuration (carry handle and standard handguard) for $3,546,600.
3,546,600 / 5,140 = $690 each
Now where the **** can I get a colt for $690.
3,546,600 / 5,140 = $690 each
Now where the **** can I get a colt for $690.
Order a few thousand and I bet Colt would cut you a bit of a deal.;)
Both my young warriors had the same issues (and one trained at Ft. Leonard Wood and the other at Ft. Jackson). It got so bad that I offered to send their Colt LE6920's to them (yeah, I know you can't) so they could shoot a decent score. I realize there's a war on but worn out weapons in BCT is a bit much.:confused:
When I went through BCT at Ft. Leonard Wood in 1973, our M16A1's were fairly new.
FWIW, my younger warrior just shot a perfect score (with a fairly new M16A2) a couple months ago (and she is a nurse).:)
Every rattley old A2 in our armory would pull an E Ribbon, and I proved it quite a few times. Those kids are under a lot of stress during initial qualifications, but I bet they will have a score to brag about on the next go around.
God bless your children and their service to our country.
https://aais.ria.army.mil/aais/award_web_07/W52H0907D04250022/000000.pdf
Looking at the above contract, if you want additional mags (beyond what is contractually specified) Colt will sell Uncle Sam a six-pack for $51.81.
https://aais.ria.army.mil/aais/award_web_07/W52H0907D04250022/000000.pdf
Looking at the above contract, if you want additional mags (beyond what is contractually specified) Colt will sell Uncle Sam a six-pack for $51.81.
That's only a few dollars less than a BCM mag with the Magpul follower, and I would rather have them.
Heavy Metal
09-16-09, 22:35
Both my young warriors had the same issues (and one trained at Ft. Leonard Wood and the other at Ft. Jackson). It got so bad that I offered to send their Colt LE6920's to them (yeah, I know you can't) so they could shoot a decent score. I realize there's a war on but worn out weapons in BCT is a bit much.:confused:
When I went through BCT at Ft. Leonard Wood in 1973, our M16A1's were fairly new.
FWIW, my younger warrior just shot a perfect score (with a fairly new M16A2) a couple months ago (and she is a nurse).:)
More likely they needed new magazines than new rifles.
Order a few thousand and I bet Colt would cut you a bit of a deal.;)
IIRC, the government's cost for the first of the FN M16-A2's was $440. That would have been in the mid 80's
variablebinary
09-17-09, 01:51
Doesnt matter to me. I will still only buy Colt when it's all said and done
Colt is still the standard, and Colt's affordable, so there isn't much incentive for me to change camps
ThirdWatcher
09-17-09, 16:28
Good points made about the importance of good magazines and the stress trainees are under.
The good news is our NCO's are still taking the time to work one-on-one with our young warriors so they learn to 'get it right'. Each of my young warriors related stories of Drill Sergeants coaching them individually while they were on the range.
variablebinary
09-18-09, 01:30
Also, lets keep in mind that whomever builds M4's will still be held to the TDP standards, so it isnt like an inferior grade of weapon will be fielded. It will be a lateral move, with company X having extra bragging rights in the civilian sphere
No biggie.
Good points made about the importance of good magazines and the stress trainees are under. .
Do you know how hard it can be to find a magazine? Even in theater they can be hard to come by. The ones you do find are all ratty and worn. Good Luck finding a mag for your M9.
The good news is our NCO's are still taking the time to work one-on-one with our young warriors so they learn to 'get it right'. Each of my young warriors related stories of Drill Sergeants coaching them individually while they were on the range.
NCOs take the time to coach the younguns for two reasons. The first is Pride. I have always wanted to produce the best soldiers that walked the face of the earth. So I always took the extra time to teach, coach, and mentor. A small investment in my time has paid huge dividends as soldiers that I led 10 years ago are now Platoon Sergeants and First Sergeants leading their soldiers using th examples that I set. The second reason is that DrillSergeants are only on the trail for so long. Sooner or later they get sent back to the line and they end up with a platoon full of the very same soldiers they trained in basic. It makes every NCOs job easier when Joe is trained properly from the very beginning. While we were in theater my buddies on my Advisor team had several of their soldiers, that they trained in basic and AIT, come up and thank them for teaching them what they needed to know to survive in combat. I don't know about you but that is a worth while legacy to me.
My soldiers are my credentials.
Any idea when they will be changing from the M4 to a SCAR style rifle? I have heard rumplings of this for several years now, but they still are using the M4's.
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