SPR Optics

[lanceriley]

What's a good and affordable SPR Optics. I need to mount it on an 18in SPR build.

I want to use the LT104 mount. Can't afford NightForce. too much.

How about a fixed 10x?
or anything that doesn't go over 10x

[Thomas M-4]

Leupold MK4 MRT http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-mrt-riflescopes/mark-4-2-5-8x36mm-mrt-m1/

[lanceriley]

i've checked it out... wow. looks good it will sit right with the LT104 right? where would be a good online dealer? or does larue sell this model?

hey how much is this?? More than 1k?

[Thomas M-4]

i've checked it out... wow. looks good it will sit right with the LT104 right? where would be a good online dealer? or does larue sell this model?

hey how much is this?? More than 1k?

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=83
That includes the mount.
It is also the illuminated model I would call and ask for the none illuminated model save you some more $$.

[lanceriley]

Got the link... very tempting.

I was going thru the leupold website....

I came up with this. Leupold LRT 10x40
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-lrt-riflescopes/mark-4-10x40mm-lrt-m1/

I not expert in long range shooting. but with the limited knowledge i've researched.
I learned that a fixed magnification scope is stronger and gathers more light.

what disadvantage will I have with this fix scope? still fit in LT104?
If I try shooting @50 yards will it still focus?
Honestly I don't know when to use 2.5x or 8x or in between magnification. confuses the hell outa me.

[Thomas M-4]

Got the link... very tempting.

I was going thru the leupold website....

I came up with this. Leupold LRT 10x40
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-lrt-riflescopes/mark-4-10x40mm-lrt-m1/

I not expert in long range shooting. but with the limited knowledge i've researched.
I learned that a fixed magnification scope is stronger and gathers more light.

what disadvantage will I have with this fix scope? still fit in LT104?
If I try shooting @50 yards will it still focus?
Honestly I don't know when to use 2.5x or 8x or in between magnification. confuses the hell outa me.

The LRT 10x40 would problaby work fine for an spr I do not know if it would fit the LT-104 mount. I do know that the MRT line was originally designed for the Spr and has the right amount of eye relief for the AR platform also you can get the MRT with a SPR reticule http://www2.leupold.com/products/reticles_SPR.htm for the 1.5-5x20 MRT
Varible scope power is nice if you have to scan for targets you turn down the power for a wider field of view and when find your target you can dial up the power to zoom in.

[lanceriley]

hey... as I keep on looking at the 2.5 - 8x MRT. it's growing on me :D

hmm.. price is about right too.. was hoping to stay within 1k.. I'll just save up a couple of hundreds. thanks.

[Thomas M-4]

hey... as I keep on looking at the 2.5 - 8x MRT. it's growing on me :D

hmm.. price is about right too.. was hoping to stay within 1k.. I'll just save up a couple of hundreds. thanks.

I have been studying up on the SPR on and off for 2 years I am going to try to make building a MK12 MOD 1 clone in 2010 goal if I can scrap up enough ca$h.

[lanceriley]

good luck. I'll probably have a complete rifle by mid 2011. Still have other stuffs to pay for...:(

[Thomas M-4]

good luck. I'll probably have a complete rifle by mid 2011. Still have other stuffs to pay for...:(

LOL if I am lucky I will be able to start on it in 2010 it will be a bit longer before it will get finished.

[lanceriley]

Economy is pretty bad everywhere...

I was planning on a full custom build. compass lake and all... (a buddy of mine did this. took him a year) Very beautiful. with all the fluting and all. and very costly too

Ive decided to go the semi custom route. say... Larue Stealth Complete upper 18.5in w/ 13.2 rail.

then... the 2.5-8x MRT... thinking about it.. my scope is going to cost exactly as much as my complete upper! 1,200+1200 = 2,400 usd. Will probably use my Carbine lower for a while. before investing on a dedicated spr lower. those magpul prs stock is expensive too.... not to mention a good trigger.

any plans on what trigger? brand?

[Thomas M-4]

Economy is pretty bad everywhere...

I was planning on a full custom build. compass lake and all... (a buddy of mine did this. took him a year) Very beautiful. with all the fluting and all. and very costly too

Ive decided to go the semi custom route. say... Larue Stealth Complete upper 18.5in w/ 13.2 rail.

then... the 2.5-8x MRT... thinking about it.. my scope is going to cost exactly as much as my complete upper! 1,200+1200 = 2,400 usd. Will probably use my Carbine lower for a while. before investing on a dedicated spr lower. those magpul prs stock is expensive too.... not to mention a good trigger.

any plans on what trigger? brand?


Right now the plan is for a Magpul PRS stock, Magpul miad full pistol grip, Geissele Automatics SSA semi-auto Match trigger.
The upper I might have MSTN build me a MOD1 upper I think he uses a novoske barrel that has a slightly lighter profile than the standard SPR profile. and a Leupold MRT scope in a Larue mount.

[Cameron]

On an AR15 SPR type set up I would look at the Leupold MK4 (http://leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/) MR/T line either the 1.5-5 or the 2.5-8. I really like the SPR reticle (specifically designed for the AR15 SPR rifles) and the M2 BDC turrets. I have successfully used a decent 4 power scope to make first round hits on targets out to 700M.

If you really need something with the 10 power I would look at the at the MK4 LR/T line with the 3.5-10 (http://leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-lrt-riflescopes/mark-4-3-5-10x40mm-lrt-m3-front-focal/). I personally prefer the lower power on an SPR as I can dial it down to the lowest magnification and use the AR at closer ranges without slowing down.

Here is a Leupold MK4 MR/T 1.5-5x20mm (http://leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-mrt-riflescopes/mark-4-1-5-5x20mm-mrt-m2-illum-reticle/) on my Daniel Defense SPR, I have the M2 turrets for 5.56 55, 62 & 77gr out to 800M. SPR reticule in an SPR mount on an SPR upper... companies like the "SPR" tag I suppose.

http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/cameron_personal/Daniel%20Defense%20SPR/LaRue.jpg

http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/cameron_personal/Daniel%20Defense%20SPR/CamzSPR.jpg

Cameron

[Gutshot John]

Disregard.

[macman37]

Leupold MR/T 1.5-5x

[lanceriley]

thomas m-4,

geissele is one of the best triggers around... and cost a lot too. One day i'll have this. PRS will have to follow later.

cameron,

As I kept on analyzing... the MR/T really grew on me.! but Just another question....

what's the difference with M1 and M2 designation of the 2.5-8x MR/T? I read leupold site and it says that M2 is for 308?

Anybody can clarify M1 and M2?

1.5-5x might be too low a magnification. Can you still do 1MOA hits with this type of scope @100 yards?

[Gutshot John]

thomas m-4,

geissele is one of the best triggers around... and cost a lot too. One day i'll have this. PRS will have to follow later.

cameron,

As I kept on analyzing... the MR/T really grew on me.! but Just another question....

what's the difference with M1 and M2 designation of the 2.5-8x MR/T? I read leupold site and it says that M2 is for 308?

Anybody can clarify M1 and M2?

1.5-5x might be too low a magnification. Can you still do 1MOA hits with this type of scope @100 yards?

M1, M2 (or M3) denotes the type of turret knob.

1.5-5x is plenty of magnification for an SPR/DMR. It is easily capable of hitting a torso at 600 yards in a 5.56. At 100 yards you shouldn't have any problems doing 1 moa, depending on your skill level.

I bowed out before but I'd say the ACOG is the best option. SPR/DMR is about rapid acquisition and fire, the Leupold MR/T works great for a competition, but in a fighting gun the ACOG reticle is far superior...imo.

[lanceriley]

lastly... how do I order with the SPR reticule? this is the one with the horse shoe right? or do all of the MRT come in SPR reticule.?

so what's the difference of M1 or M2 turret website doesn't explain

[Thomas M-4]

lastly... how do I order with the SPR reticule? this is the one with the horse shoe right? or do all of the MRT come in SPR reticule.?

so what's the difference of M1 or M2 turret website doesn't explain

M1 1/4 MOA adj M2 1/2 MOA adj
On the web sight they only shows the SPR reticule option for the 1.5-5x.
Looked at the custom shop and they don't show any options for the MRT line up may have to E-mail them to find out for sure.

SPR reticule http://www2.leupold.com/products/reticles_SPR.htm
not really a horse shoe

http://swfa.com/Leupold-Mark-4-MRT-Riflescopes-C125.aspx
It looks like they have a typo on the dial description they list M1 and M3 but M3 dails are not shown has an option.

[Gutshot John]

lastly... how do I order with the SPR reticule? this is the one with the horse shoe right? or do all of the MRT come in SPR reticule.?

so what's the difference of M1 or M2 turret website doesn't explain

To order with the SPR if it's non-standard you'll have to contact Leupold's custom shop. If it does it will be an available option. I only think it's an option on the 1.5x model.

The difference in turrets is only obvious in dimensions. The M1 is taller/thinner than the m2 or m3 which are shorter/wider.

[lanceriley]

ok stupid question..

1/4 clicks or 1/2 clicks?

[Irish]

Subscribed for info.

[Cameron]

ok stupid question..

1/4 clicks or 1/2 clicks?

The SPR has M2 turrets and 1 click with move impact 1/2 MOA. So 1 click equals 0.5" at 100yards, 1" at 200yards, 2.5" at 500yards. Excellent amount for a DMR/SPR. As it only takes half a rotation to go from a 100M ZERO to 500M, three quarters rotation takes you all the way to 800M. On a .308 bolt with a 14 power magnification then you might want the 1/4MOA clicks, I have a Leupold MK4 LR/T 4.5-14x50mm with 1/4MOA M1 turrets on that.

The SPR reticle is excellent for fast range estimation and great for holdovers without having to adjust the elevation. I have used the ACOG and the ACOG type BDC in the IOR CQB reticle scope and I find the 1.5-5 with SPR much faster for all ranges. Especially close range vs. the ACOG.

http://www2.leupold.com/products/reticles_SPR.htm

Illuminated Special Purpose Reticle (SPR)
http://www2.leupold.com/products/images/Reticles/Reticle_Illum_SPR_2x.gif http://www2.leupold.com/products/images/Reticles/SPR_range_estimating.gif

SPR Subtensions Diagram
http://www2.leupold.com/products/images/Reticles/SPR_subtensions.gif

SPR Hold Over Values Diagram
http://www2.leupold.com/products/images/Reticles/SPR_holdover_diagram.gif

DOWNLOAD SPR INSTRUCTION MANUAL (PDF, 131K) (http://www2.leupold.com/resources/downloads/Leupold_SPR_Manual.pdf)

Take the fact that the SPR reticle is extremely fast for range estimation, and the hold overs can work like an ACOG so you don't have to adjust the elevation turrets, add in that on 1.5 power the illuminated circle can be run like a 65MOA ring on the EOTech and it is FAST really fast at close range, in fact I ran my two rifles on a timer one with an EOTech and one with the Leupold SPR on 1.5 power at 15yards and the split differences were in the couple of hundredths of seconds. Then when you look at it's range estimating capabilities and precision at longer ranges, (I regularly shoot SUB HALF MOA with my DD SPR and the Leupold on 5 power, groups at a true 100yards that are less than 0.5 of an inch) then add in the capability to use M2 BDC turrets for whatever your pet load is. I have 55, 62 & 77gr turrets, they are only $36 from Leupold delivered. Custom turrets are $70, if you want to works up a load that the military doesn't use, like a 68 or 69 grain load for a 1in9 barrel.

This scope really works well in the DMR/SPR type role where we are pushing an AR15 to perform from to it's limits from across the room to 800M. Like any optic you will have to learn the subtensions and the holdovers, but with practice the SPR makes an AR a very versatile weapon, I would take an SPR over an ACOG for all of these reasons.

My brother working the DD SPR with the Leupold SPR scope
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/cameron_personal/Shooting/SladeSPR01.jpg

Cameron

[lanceriley]

ok... now im torn in between 1.5 - 5x and the 2.5-8x.

Cameron,
im gona mount it on an 18in. so it will probably not see shooting cqb style.

more like a bench rest for 100yards.. and if chance allows. shoot 300-500 center of mass shots.

Im in no way in the military or leo agency.. just a happy shooter.

[Cameron]

I would put the 2.5-8x36mm on it from what you just said with the M2 turrets and the illuminated TMR reticle you can't get the SPR reticle. :mad:

Mark 4 2.5-8x36mm MR/T M2 Illum. Reticle (http://leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-mrt-riflescopes/mark-4-2-5-8x36mm-mrt-m2-illum-reticle/)

You will be able to shoot sub half MOA groups and make first round hit from 100-800 with either scope.

Personally I like the 1.5-5 on an AR15 and would put the 2.5-8 on .308 semi and then a 4.5-14 on the bolt action.


Here is someone we all know on here (USMC03) rocking a match with the 1.5-5 SPR scope.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Monthly%20Rifle%20Matches/IMG_2105_1.jpg
Works up close if you need it
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Monthly%20Rifle%20Matches/IMG_2089_1.jpg
Cameron

[lanceriley]

ok i've checked out the MRT 2.5-8x M2. Why does the description say that it is calibrated for 308?? so does this mean there is no calibration for 5.56?

the 1.5-5x MRT sounds like it's a good match optic.
maybe for a 16in build? :D

[Thomas M-4]

ok i've checked out the MRT 2.5-8x M2. Why does the description say that it is calibrated for 308?? so does this mean there is no calibration for 5.56?

the 1.5-5x MRT sounds like it's a good match optic.
maybe for a 16in build? :D

Yardage BDC engraved on the dials the custom shop will custom engrave you dials to your specific load.

From the custom shop:
Custom Bullet Drop Compensation Dials
You know your rifle, riflescope, load, and ballistics like nobody else. Now you can have custom Bullet Drop Compensation (BDC) dials for your Leupold riflescope. Just fill out our ballistics worksheet (available at www.leupold.com) with your ballistics data, and we will, in turn, create a precision laser engraved dial that allows you to adjust for bullet impact at extremely long range.

[lanceriley]

whoa... that would be fine! i guess I know what to buy now... last problem is finding the dough :( which by the way isn't that easy nowadays

[Failure2Stop]

FWIW - the SPR, the Mk12 is topped off with a NightForce 2.5-10.
It's for a very good reason, and are enthusiastically recommended by those with experience on them. I am not one of those guys, but I pay very close attention to what they are saying in regard to their application.

[Gutshot John]

I'm not sure how the SPR can be faster than an ACOG with all those methods of ranging.

First there is only one ranging method for an ACOG. Each stadia line is 18" across (the average width of a man's shoulders) for the given distance. Just match up the line with the shoulders and pull the trigger.

I dislike ranging methods where you have to use body height, since often the height of a target is obscured by ground irregularities, brush etc. A horizontal shoulder width will be more visible than a vertical body or torso.

Secondarily I'd think you'd need to make sure the MR/T is at the appropriate magnification setting unless its FFP to range accurately.

I think some may have mastered the MR/T so that they're quicker than most, but for someone who hasn't used either scope, I'd bet the ACOG is a lot more user friendly not to mention faster.

[Gutshot John]

FWIW - the SPR, the Mk12 is topped off with a NightForce 2.5-10.
It's for a very good reason, and are enthusiastically recommended by those with experience on them. I am not one of those guys, but I pay very close attention to what they are saying in regard to their application.

Which NF reticle do they use? or is that an individual choice?

[Failure2Stop]

Which NF reticle do they use? or is that an individual choice?

Mil-Dot.

[Thomas M-4]

http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq76/blackjack272/CIMG0239.jpg


Leupold with 77gr 5.56 engraved elevation turret 1/2 min adj.

[Cameron]

Nice

Cameron

[lanceriley]

thomas m4,

heck.. im falling in love with the leupold MR/T
it's your fault! :D

[JSGlock34]

lastly... how do I order with the SPR reticule? this is the one with the horse shoe right? or do all of the MRT come in SPR reticule.?

so what's the difference of M1 or M2 turret website doesn't explain

The M2 turrets also have a zero stop, which is an expensive option on some other optic brands.

The Leupold MR/T has a number of military users as well. I believe it is known in military circles as the TS-30, and is found on the USMC SAM-R among other rifles.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Marines-with-sniper-rifle-3.jpg/800px-Marines-with-sniper-rifle-3.jpg

Though marked as a 2.5-8X, the actual upper end magnification is closer to 9X (8.7x) according to the Leupold website. Interestingly, the 1.5-5X has an actual upper end magnification of 4.5X. I'm a bit mystified as to how Leupold labels the scopes in their lineup, but it pays to read the 'Specs' page on the Leupold site.