View Full Version : Taking the precision rifle plunge and I need advise
SWATcop556
08-14-09, 00:23
I have been shooting AR's and handguns for many years. I am wanting to take the precision rifle plunge but I know very very little about what is good gear and kit and what is shit. So instead of me giving advice to new AR shooters about their first rifle and to stay away from BM, OLY, DPMS I now need help in setting up a precision rifle.
I have a chance to pick up a NIB Remington 700 SPS Tactical with a 20" barrel in .308 for a good price. Would this be a good rifle to build up? What other kit will I need to get to have a decent starter setup to see if this is something I'm really going to pursue?
I am looking to be able to shoot from 300-800 yards (max range for anywhere local). I would say I would like to spend about $2K since this will be a jumping off point an I'm not sure if this is something that I'm really going to dive into.
I know to some of the very dedicated precision shooters $2K wouldn't even get them a good optic, but hey, I'm just starting out here. I'm also looking at taking a Basic Sniper course at US Training Center.
I'm in the same boat and picked up a low round count SPS Tac in .308 last month for a good price. Budget a stock from the get go with this rifle as the fore end flexes readily, contacting the barrel. Options run from PSS take-offs at the low end on up through McMillan/Manners/AICS on the big ($1k) end. Then there's glass, mount/rings and all the other usual accessories.
How well you do for $2k depends on how you choose to shop (new/used from the boards etc) and where you choose to make sacrifices. Personally I'm trying to avoid buying the same components multiple times through incremental upgrades, but it's going to take me a while :(
Thats a good starting point. Buy the rifle and get a nice optic and shoot the piss out of it. And when you have money saved up and feel you can out shoot the gun than upgrade it. But the thing thats most important is a good optic.
Good optics (to include base and rings) yes but i also agree that it needs a better stock. Look for a used LTR or PSS stock if you can't afford a McMillan, Manners or AICS for now.
Check out SWFA's samplelist (www.samplelist.com) for good buys on used and demo scopes.
Then go shoot the piss out of it.
TacticalIntervention
08-15-09, 11:57
OK, lets see if we can help
This is based on keeping it lower priced and a rifle to give great service for years.
Rifle, Remington Varmint, used with HS Precision stock. Should be around 650-700.00 used
Rifle PSS Rem new. Should be around 850.00
Scope
The new Super Sniper Varible 3-9 This is great scope for the 599.00 price. Glass is like a 1200.00 scope and it just plain works well
Leupold MK4 M1 or M3 3.5-10. This is a standby and you should be able to pick up used as new for 750-800.00
These are good scope recommended because they work and can fit the budget. Me I would shop around and get NXS 3-15x50 and be in love.
Rings and bases. Here is a hard one becase most cost a ton.
Find abase with 20 moa built in that does not cost a bunch. Farrell, TPS and Warne make them. Should be under 50.00. Then get some basic tactical rings like Warne, Farrell, TPS. Rings and bases should be less than 150.00 total if you shop around. Understand the ebst would cost near 300.00 for everything but your on budget.
You can also get the one piece base and rings for around a 100.00
Sling. I would get one of mine. LOL Probably the Slip Cuff because this works well and keeps price down.
SWATcop1911,
I do not know where you are in TX, but down in Kingsville there is, www.riflesonly.com ,their teaching will JUMPSTART your precision rifle journey. I was there in February and i can't wait to go back. What they will teach you in the basic class will have you on the right track for shooting precision rifles. You said sniper course, when i was there a cop from a mid-texas PD was taking his "how to shoot" class. He said when he got back the other guys would fill in the rest
You need good glass, good base, good rings and good ammo for that remington. A bi-pod and a sling a bag to carry the gun in and a backpack for your other stuff.
I suggest getting a Mil/Mil scope. That is a reticle with MIL calibrations and direct MIL adjustments. It is so simple that you will be amazed when it is explained to you. I sold my Leupold and Bought a Night force 3.5-15x50 F1 with the MLR reticle.
You may want to swap out that stock on the SPS, I felt one and it was a little flimsy.
I am new to the precision rifle. The only piece of gear that i have from my original gun is the barreled action and the bi-pod.
It is great fun and you can shoot those little groups we dream about.
All the best,
jack
Here is a decent forum to consider checking out...
http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/
Other info, including some rifle packages that they offer..
http://www.snipercentral.com/rifles.htm
http://www.snipercentral.com/entrypackage.htm
http://www.snipercentral.com/rementrypack.phtml
--->APB
TacticalIntervention
08-20-09, 10:45
On Training Classes. I suggest you drive to Ok and take classes from Bobbie Whittington and Steve Suttles, at Baldands. Price is far less than others mention and they teach from Military and Police Backgrounds. Plus they are certififed LE Sniper School, which will be big deal with your department for training purposes.
http://badlandsbob.proboards.com/index.cgi?
http://www.badlandstactical.net/home.htm
Steves Resume which I have not found the equal to.
Steve's career in marksmanship began at age 16 in the NRA indoor small-bore youth program. Steve entered the U.S. Marine Corps in 1968, and went on to graduate from their Sniper School before deploying to Vietnam in 1969. Steve made one of the longest shots made by a bolt rifle in that conflict (1250 yards) from Hill 55. Steve graduated from the Basic Combat Intelligence Course in Norfolk Va. He applied for and was selected for embassy duty, but opted to start a civilian career. In 1983, Steve became active Oklahoma Army National Guard and just recently retired from the guard after serving 21 plus years. During his tenure in the Oklahoma Army National Guard, Steve taught at the National Guard Bureau's Scout Sniper School at Little Rock, Arkansas. He also established the Oklahoma National Guard Sniper School at Camp Gruber, Oklahoma in 1999. He is also an accredited instructor at the Ft. Sill Field Artillery School, in field artillery survey and forward observer. Steve is an avid shooter and international competitor. In his spare time Steve enjoys
Bobbie has great resume as well, being former Military Sniper (War time) and current Sheriff.
i will toss in my opinion and what i have done recently.
i chose the leupold mark4 LRT M1 in 4.5x14 50mm with leupold mark4 base and rings.
remington 700 XCR compact tactical in .308
reason for these choices was primarily ruggedness with out of the box features that will let it be a shooter i dont have to muck with or send off to be accurized or replace half the rifle with new stocks barrels or triggers. yeah i can get a less pricey rifle and work it up by sending it off to be worked on but i just want that hassle. out of the box it shoots good has a very good trigger and has a very tough weather resistant finish on scope rings base and rifle. it definately shoots better than i can. ruggedness and portability was my primary factors when picking these pieces. short barrel that is tough and easy to lug around in brush is very important to me after owning several longer barreled rifles that i had to fight my way through rough brush and having to constantly tend the weapon's exterior was a pain.
anyway just my 2 small pistol primer worth.
I started into precision rifle about 1 1/2 years ago, with exactly the setup you mentioned. I bought a new Remington 700 SPS tactical with a 20 inch barrel. Three other guys I work with bought them as well. We sent them out to American Precision Arms (formerly Patriot Arms) for threading and adding Vortex Flash Suppressors, and threading and mounting badger ordinance tactical bolt handles. They did an absolutely outstanding job, with a quick turnaround time. One member actually had his barrel replaced with a heavier 18" barrel. When they got back another guy and I replaced our stocks with a Bell & Carlson stock, and a couple of the other guys replaced their stocks with Accuracy International stocks. Leupold Mark 4's LRT 3.5-10x with Farrell mounts and rings completed our rifles.
We shot a lot with match-grade Federal 168 grain BTHP, and crowned our introduction with a trip to Blackwater USA and went through their 1-week LE/Military Basic Sniper Course.
The rifles shot very well out to 800 yards, in fact, me and another guy in my unit tied for "top shooter" in the class. This is with a stock trigger and barrel, only modified with vortex. I think because of its quality, cost-effectiveness and the myriad of accessories available for it, the Remington 700 system is the best system for the introductory precision rifle shooter.
I have a 700VS in .308. Get the rifle and dump the SPS stock and go with the McMillan.... Or just hold out and find a VS or PSS. Where in TX you at? I could sell you mine and then you wouldn't have to worry about the stock. :D
SWATcop556
08-29-09, 03:39
Well I was able to pick up the SPS for $525 NIB. Now I'm looking into optics. I'm probably going to go with Badger for the base and rings or maybe EGW.
The stock will go but not for right now as funds need to go towards glass. It doesn't look like I'm going to be able to throw $1200 at an optic right now. Much to my suprise I have been reading very good things about the SWFA Super Sniper as a great entry scope. Any thoughts?
I will eventually upgrade the stock and scope but this will have to work for right now. Again the advice is greatly appreciated so keep it coming. :cool:
Well I was able to pick up the SPS for $525 NIB. Now I'm looking into optics. I'm probably going to go with Badger for the base and rings or maybe EGW.
The stock will go but not for right now as funds need to go towards glass. It doesn't look like I'm going to be able to throw $1200 at an optic right now. Much to my suprise I have been reading very good things about the SWFA Super Sniper as a great entry scope. Any thoughts?
I will eventually upgrade the stock and scope but this will have to work for right now. Again the advice is greatly appreciated so keep it coming. :cool:
i have 5 remmy 700's of various calibers/configurations that have been totally tricked out by the best 'smiths in the country.If i were to purchase rings bases for a 30mm tubed scope,i would purchase leupold even if that weren't the brand scope i intend to use.also,highly recommended is a small company called seekins precision.they make awesome rings bases.plus Glenn the owner is a nice guy.cant go wrong with seekins.
On Training Classes. I suggest you drive to Ok and take classes from Bobbie Whittington and Steve Suttles, at Baldands. Price is far less than others mention and they teach from Military and Police Backgrounds. Plus they are certififed LE Sniper School, which will be big deal with your department for training purposes.
http://badlandsbob.proboards.com/index.cgi?
http://www.badlandstactical.net/home.htm
Steves Resume which I have not found the equal to.
Steve's career in marksmanship began at age 16 in the NRA indoor small-bore youth program. Steve entered the U.S. Marine Corps in 1968, and went on to graduate from their Sniper School before deploying to Vietnam in 1969. Steve made one of the longest shots made by a bolt rifle in that conflict (1250 yards) from Hill 55. Steve graduated from the Basic Combat Intelligence Course in Norfolk Va. He applied for and was selected for embassy duty, but opted to start a civilian career. In 1983, Steve became active Oklahoma Army National Guard and just recently retired from the guard after serving 21 plus years. During his tenure in the Oklahoma Army National Guard, Steve taught at the National Guard Bureau's Scout Sniper School at Little Rock, Arkansas. He also established the Oklahoma National Guard Sniper School at Camp Gruber, Oklahoma in 1999. He is also an accredited instructor at the Ft. Sill Field Artillery School, in field artillery survey and forward observer. Steve is an avid shooter and international competitor. In his spare time Steve enjoys
Bobbie has great resume as well, being former Military Sniper (War time) and current Sheriff.
Dang Miller,great intel!
I wouldn't worry about getting different equipment until you can outshoot the gear you have. Once you are able to outshoot your gear, then upgrade. By that I mean that under practical circumstances, you are able to shoot the rifle as well as it is capable of shooting.
Of course, al alternate point of view is that having more inherent accuracy in your shooting system will provide you more "slack". If your rifle will shoot .5moa in stead of 1moa, you have reduced some of the group size. This might be a sound thought, but, I still think that it is much better for a beginning shooter to develop much more proficiency in their accuracy, than to rely on a more acccurate weapon system to make up for deficiencies in proficiency.
If you are looking for other glass, I saw that optics planet has Leupold Mark 4 4.5-15 x40 scopes for $660.00. That is pretty good glass for that price. Many of the sniper web boards such as those mentioned above often have classified ads that will have scopes, stocks, barrels and so on for sale if you are looking to upgrade.
I think you are on the right track by getting decent equipment (rather than top of the line, really expensive), and looking toward proper training to increase your learning curve, rather than looking for really fancy and expensive equipment as an alternative to proper training and practice.
The Savage people make a more accurate gun for the money. take a look at their tactical bolt guns and buy one of those. The mag fed big handle job with the ajustable stock is a pretty sweet rifle, or the HS precision rig.
Either of those would be a great starter gun.
At Army sniper school a lot of the M24's shoot 1/2MOA at best, and those are $3000 guns. Rifle only no scope.
Savage rifles will easilly do 1/2 MOA in the higher end law enforcement guns, and they don't cost $3000.
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