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Hawkeye
08-15-09, 07:21
Not sure if anyone would find this of use/interest, but I figured I'd post it up anyway.

The following is just something that I decided to do for my own T&E purposes. Most of it is just my opinion and mine alone, based on my likes, dislikes, and personal observations via my own first hand experiences, or first hand of a trusted friend. I urge you to try things out for yourselves, and come to your own conclusions. If your results and observations are different, then they are different.

First, I wanted to say a few things about BDU’s in general and the material with which they are made. Before I do though, I feel I must point out that my use for BDU’s is not for fun, or play, or a “hobby”. I have them for serious use. So that is the context in which I’ll be viewing and commenting from.
I think much of the time, people do not give much thought (if any) to the material that the BDU’s they are purchasing are made from.
In my experience, the material is an extremely important factor. First, you have Twill material, and Ripstop material. Twill being a smooth material, Ripstop having raised ridges in the material forming a grid type pattern, which is designed to help prevent a rip from spreading once it starts. Second, you have the makeup of the material itself. The most common ones being, 100% cotton, 60/40 Cotton/Polyester, 65/35 Polyester/Cotton *, and 50/50 Nylon/Cotton. There are a couple of others, be these seem to be the most common. Most are available in either a Twill or Ripstop form, but that varies from brand to brand. * Note - There are a couple of different “weights” of the 65/35 materials available.
BDU.com has some good general info out on the various materials here.
http://www.bdu.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=fabric-guide&Category_Code=acu-coats

And Propper has some good info here.
https://www.epropper.com/fabrics.php

My personal favorite materials have long been 50/50 NYCO and 60/40 Cotton/Poly. I have found that these are great year round materials for me, doing well in both summer and winter conditions, wet or dry. I have long had a dislike for 100% cotton material. I find that it wears very fast, is not that durable, fades quickly, and is, in my opinion, downright dangerous when wet regardless of the source of the moisture or the time of year. How a material handles moisture, i.e.- how well does it resist and/or absorb moisture, what does it do with moisture once wet, i.e.- does it tend to hold it, or does it evaporate it quickly, etc. is a extremely key factor to me.
65/35 Poly/Cotton has always been a strong, durable material, but I never liked it much outside of very cold conditions. I found it generally to be too heavy of a material, almost canvas like. However, I recently decided to try a couple of pair of Propper BDU’s made from their 65/35 Poly/Cotton Ripstop that they call their “BattleRip” material, after noticing that it was of a lighter weight than what some are. After wearing the pants to work for a couple of weeks, I have completely fallen in love with them and the material. I have found it to be very comfortable in the heat, and have no doubt that with proper base layers, it will do well in the cold. They also have proven to do very well when wet, and as previously mentioned, that’s a big thing for me.

Moving on to camo patterns. This is an extremely debatable topic, that some folks get really wrapped up on. Use whatever pattern you like, just don’t be quick to rule out something other than your personal favorite, and don’t be too quick to judge another on their choice. Get what you think you like, and then test it for yourself, in multiple environments, locations, conditions, etc.

I decided to take the 4 patterns that I have come to like best, and do some very informal pictures of them. They aren’t professional pictures, and they aren’t meant to be. Again, just did these for my own reasons and thought I’d share. As you may pick up from some of the pictures, shadows and lighting can play a huge part in helping, or hurting, your concealment efforts. Pay close attention to that when your in the field. Usually, shadows are your friend, but sometimes, the opposite is true.
I don’t think that there is any one pattern that truly works to the optimum, everywhere. I do think that there are some that come very close, but, I think that the USMC was really smart in going with 2 different color schemes.

The following is a series of pictures I took using 4 different BDU tops. Multicam, Woodland Digital, Desert Digital, and X-Camo digital. I included the Desert digital, as I think too many people write it off as being no good anywhere except the desert. I think some may be a little surprised to see just how well khaki’s and tan’s can work in a non-desert environment. For the most part, there is little to no vegetation in front of them, and I did this on purpose. This is just to give a view of how they may or may not appear when viewed in front of concealing vegetation, vs. mixed in it, or more behind it. I'll get to those pics and such later. The sky was mostly clear and it was very sunny.

The Woodland and Desert digitals are Propper's 65/35 Poly/Cotton Ripstop from their ACU line.
The Multicam is 55/45 Cotton/Poly Ripstop from SKD Tactical.
The X-Camo is 60/40 Cotton/Poly Ripstop from MOC.

All the shots were taken in series at each location in the following order……..Multicam, Desert Digital, Woodland Digital, and last X-Camo Digital.

1st view……..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Multicam1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Desertdigi1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Woodlanddigi1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Xcamo1.jpg


2nd view………..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Multicam2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Desertdigi2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Woodlanddigi2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Xcamo2.jpg


3rd view……….

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Multicam3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Desertdigi3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Woodlanddigi4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Xcamo5.jpg


Here are 2 extra’s I took of the X-Camo digital…….

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Xcamo3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Xcamo4.jpg


And one extra of the Woodland digital…………

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Woodlanddigi3.jpg



Random thoughts so far…. The Propper Woodland digital was really impressive in a number of spots that I placed it and really surprised me. I plan on getting some more of it for sure. I am really liking the material, the construction, and the price. I had hoped the Multicam would produce slightly better results. We’ll see how things play out with the future things I plan to try….. Speaking of that……. I have quite a few more pics and such that I plan to take and post, so if your interested, stay tuned and I’ll post updates as I do them.

Hawkeye
08-15-09, 07:23
Here is one pic of the 3 digital patterns.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Digitals/3tops1.jpg


Here is a crappy pic of all 4.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/IMG_0540.jpg


Couple more.......

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/All4-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/All4-2.jpg

Hawkeye
08-15-09, 07:24
Newer version of the X-Camo top and Boonie. The newer version is a definite improvement to me. They took the previous tan area, and made it slightly darker shade, closer to khaki (but not quite), more green and brown was added, and the overall "tone" of the colors is a little more subdued. I need to get some better pics taken (the lighting is off on these below), and obviously some outside in use, but here are a couple I just snapped real quick.

Old version on the left, new version on the right.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Digitals/NewX-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Digitals/NewX-4.jpg


Multicam and the New X.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Digitals/Multicam-NewX.jpg


Couple of pics with the newer X-Camo.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/NewX1.jpg

Same pic, but just a few inches further into the brush..... lighting and shadows, they can really affect how well something does or doesnt work. Something to keep in mind. http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/NewX2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/NewX3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/NewX4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/NewX5.jpg


I think the newer X-Camo is far better than the previous version. More T&E needed though. I am just going to refer to the newer X-camo as Gen II from here on.

Just for kicks, I had a spare minute at work............. Gen II X-camo top, digital desert trousers. And no, I wasnt trying to hide here.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/XtopDsrttrou1.jpg

Hawkeye
08-15-09, 07:25
Some with the Digital Woodland.

Just showing how it tends to take on background colors, almost similar to multicam.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digiwood-3.jpg

Exposed skin can be a killer when it comes to camo effect. As an example........

Sleeves rolled up with arms exposed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digiwood-4.jpg


Sleeves rolled down.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digiwood-7.jpg


Sleeves up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digiwood-5.jpg


Sleeves down.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digiwood-6.jpg



And one last one.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digiwood-8.jpg

Hawkeye
08-15-09, 07:27
Here are a few shots of the Digital Desert pattern in a somewhat wooded environment. Now, we all know that tan, khaki, light browns, etc., colors most people think of as "desert" colors, all only work in the actual desert.......right?

As with ANY pattern/color, if you just stand in the open and expect to either disappear or look like a bush, you'll fail. Instead of disappearing or suddenly looking like bush, you'll just look like a guy standing there in camo clothes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digidesert-1.jpg


But add just a little bit of something in front of you, and things begin to change quickly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digidesert-5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digidesert-2.jpg


Out in the open.........

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digidesert-4.jpg


And not so open.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digidesert-3.jpg


Even in darker/shadowy area's, "Desert" colors/patterns CAN be effective..........

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digidesert-6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Digidesert-7.jpg


Are they as effective as say Multicam or the Digital Woodland in this type of environment? No. Can they work though to some degree? Yes.

** Just a side note on these pics... they were taken late in the afternoon, whereas the Digital Woodland pics were taken in the middle of the day. Just want to point this out as the difference in the time of day makes it not a true apples to apples comparison.

Hawkeye
08-15-09, 07:29
Current thoughts.....Right now, for me personally, I am liking the Digital Woodland the best, with Multicam a very close second. The Digital Desert can obviously be used, and is better than nothing, but not as effective as the other two. It does however offer some options of mixing it with something else, say a pair of woodland trousers and desert blouse, or vice versa, for some really interesting effects. Going do some with the Gen II X-camo next.

rob_s
08-15-09, 08:21
This appears to be more about the camo patterns, but if you ever get the inclination I'd love to hear more about the various materials. I have always gravitated towards the 100% cotton ripstop because it always felt the coolest to me in the heat and humidity. I've also gravitated towards the lightweight 100% cotton in the various "tactical" pants both from a heat perspective as well as just an overall weight issue (Woolrich Elite, even though 100% cotton, are some HEAVY friggin' pants!).

When I was selling BDUs I think we had two kinds. 100% cotton ripstop and then some other version that, while I'm sure it wasn't, felt like it was 100% synthetic. Which was one more reason I went with 100% cotton, lesser of the two evils.

Hawkeye
08-15-09, 08:43
For me, 100% cotton 100% sucks. I will never wear 100% cotton again unless I absolutely have to after wearing the newer synthetic blended materials. Cotton is a natural fiber, and it absorbs moisture, and holds it. In the heat, you then stay wet, which means you end up being covered in hot water basically. Kinda like being in a hot bath or sauna. Synthentics wick moisture and dont really absorb it, and they do not hold it.. Therefore, they dry out much faster, which in turn, allows them to wick more moisture. In the heat, the more moisture they can move from your skin, the more heat is transferred/conducted with the moisture (sweat) and the cooler you stay. Same thing in the rain for instance. You get wet, but dry out much faster. Therefore, your less prone to chaffing and such from wet material sticking to your skin.
Same principles apply in the winter. Being wet, via snow, rain, sweat, etc., can lead to hypothermia pretty easily. You want things to dry out as fast as possible.
I'll state up front that some of this is hard to explain, as I can mainly go off of my own personal trials and experiences. This is just how my experiences/findings have been explained to me by others more knowledgable than I. (which is why I'm glad no one is paying me for this info, cause then if I were all bass ackwards, then people would be wanting refunds and such. :eek: )

rob_s
08-15-09, 08:47
I just stumbled upon the Propper Lightweight Tactical Ripstop Trouser (http://www.publicsafetyunlimited.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=F5243&CartID=1) that's a 65/35 that I assume is similar to what you talked about in your first post. Any idea if it's the same? At half the price of the Woolrich and Eotac britches I'm damn tempted to give it a try.

And what is this "snow" you speak of? :confused:

:D

Hawkeye
08-15-09, 09:00
Yes it is. I have actually been planning on picking up a pair or two to try out myself. The price is very attractive. A little more info can be found here...

http://www.bdu.com/tactical-pants.html

You'd probably like these too. They are on my list as well.

http://www.bdu.com/tactical-shorts.html


At first, the material definitely "feels" different to the touch, than 100% cotton. To me its not a "bad" feeling/texture, just different. You know its not 100% cotton. After a few washings, the BDU's I have, have begun to feel quite nice indeed.

jwinch2
08-15-09, 09:34
Hawkeye,

First of all, great thread and great posts.

I was actually unaware of the new version of the digital woodland so that was a very interesting thing for me to see. I am assuming that your pictures were taken fairly recently. Is that correct? If so, I would be interested to see how things would shift as things move into fall, then winter, and then spring. I suspect that based on the color pattern, Multicam would jump ahead of the gen II digital woodland in fall and spring conditions when there are going to be more browns and lighter greens than in full summer conditions. Of course I could be completely wrong on that as well. :D

Of course, when you add in urban environments or combinations of urban and bush as well as snow things get all screwed up. A true "universal" pattern probably does not exist. At least until we get the technology to alter patters in chameleon-like fashion on clothing which someone is probably working on right now. For that reason, I have long been a proponent of multiple camo patterns for the military as I don't feel that one pattern is ever going to be the best for each individual environment.

However, for the civilian who has a limited budget, that is something that has to be taken into consideration and if there is one pattern that does a decent job in multiple environments and times of year that is something worthy of knowing. In a few months when fall gets rolling and the leaves start to change, I would love to see a repeat of some of this testing if you are inclined to do it.



Cheers and thanks again!

Jason

Hawkeye
08-15-09, 09:44
Yes, this is all within the past few weeks. I have more planned, and some things in the fall and winter are on the list as well. I'll update as I go, as I intend this to be an ongoing thing.

As big of a fan of Multicam as I have been, and am, I really think the USMC was smart to go with the two different color schemes (woodland & desert) that they did.

rob_s
08-15-09, 10:23
Yes it is. I have actually been planning on picking up a pair or two to try out myself. The price is very attractive. A little more info can be found here...

http://www.bdu.com/tactical-pants.html

You'd probably like these too. They are on my list as well.

http://www.bdu.com/tactical-shorts.html


At first, the material definitely "feels" different to the touch, than 100% cotton. To me its not a "bad" feeling/texture, just different. You know its not 100% cotton. After a few washings, the BDU's I have, have begun to feel quite nice indeed.

Thanks for the link on the short-pants. I wish the cheap link in my other post had them as well. Trying to decide who to order from. I like that the shor-pants have the 9" inseam too so I don't walk around looking like I'm in a pair of UDT shorts.

ETA: Went ahead and ordered one of each from your links above. Combined they got me over the $50 for free shipping. Thanks!

Mr.Goodtimes
08-15-09, 10:52
Yes, this is all within the past few weeks. I have more planned, and some things in the fall and winter are on the list as well. I'll update as I go, as I intend this to be an ongoing thing.

As big of a fan of Multicam as I have been, and am, I really think the USMC was smart to go with the two different color schemes (woodland & desert) that they did.

Hawkeye, im from florida as well. For the first time the other day, i wore my multicam when i went out for a hike. me and my hiking buddy were really supprised how well the multicam blends in with the florida scrub brush. The area we were in ranged from grassy open fields, to swampy, to lots of scrub. The multicam blended in well with all.

I would also think that the Marine Corps pattern would blend in better in some of those areas but not as well in others. I think the multicam works better in a wider area of of surroundings, but not as good in specialized areas.

An example of this would be in the dryer scrub we encountered, lots of grass, sand, low lying palms, and pine trees. The muliticam worked excellently here, but not quite as well in the swampy areas, where i think the Marine woodland pattern would have worked better, but i dont think that the woodland pattern would have been effective in scrub.

hawkeye, out of curiosity what do you do for a living?

kmrtnsn
08-15-09, 12:20
I have always been partial to the lime green and brown camo we had on our slant pocket cammies when I joined the Corps. After that pattern I always liked Rhodesian for hunting and desert DPM for really arid areas. I have a few pieces in Multicam now I am partial to.

Outlander Systems
08-15-09, 13:01
Hawkeye, this thread is awesome.

You had me at, "My personal favorite materials have long been 50/50 NYCO and 60/40 Cotton/Poly."

100% Cotton dials up the suck.

jwinch2
08-15-09, 13:39
Yes, this is all within the past few weeks. I have more planned, and some things in the fall and winter are on the list as well. I'll update as I go, as I intend this to be an ongoing thing.

As big of a fan of Multicam as I have been, and am, I really think the USMC was smart to go with the two different color schemes (woodland & desert) that they did.

Agreed on the multiple schemes for sure. I'll look forward to your additional pics.

Cheers.

Azul
08-16-09, 02:40
I guess i will try to defend the 100% cotton

When its 110 degrees and 80 % humidity synthetic wicking materials are much less functional. They only work when the air wants to accept the moisture back, which works great in a more arid region, but a compression under armour shirt can become a heat coffin in a humid and hot climate if it cant shed the water. The BDU's in my experience that are not 100% cotton hold alot more water than the cotton version and you are in worse of a spot than the cotton because it traps heat.

Agreed you have to take real good care of it to keep it from fading(i hand wash in cold water and drip dry) but i havent seen any real shrinkage to speak of from Propper cotton ripstop. The Twill and the Battle Rip as Propper call it are doable for a fit and acclimatized person but the NYCO was a bad one time heat stroke experience for me.

As far as pattern after trying a few i find i still like M81 best

Hawkeye
08-16-09, 08:26
I guess i will try to defend the 100% cotton

When its 110 degrees and 80 % humidity synthetic wicking materials are much less functional. They only work when the air wants to accept the moisture back, which works great in a more arid region, but a compression under armour shirt can become a heat coffin in a humid and hot climate if it cant shed the water. The BDU's in my experience that are not 100% cotton hold alot more water than the cotton version and you are in worse of a spot than the cotton because it traps heat.

I'll just have to disagree and say that in the 80-90%+ humidity we have here in NE FL (and other places in the SE US), my personal experiences have been significantly different, both when I was in the military and on my own. Synthetic material does not absorb moisture like natural fibers such as cotton do.

I'll also just point back to what I posted in my opening statement.


Most of it is just my opinion and mine alone, based on my likes, dislikes, and personal observations via my own first hand experiences, or first hand of a trusted friend. I urge you to try things out for yourselves, and come to your own conclusions. If your results and observations are different, then they are different.

Outlander Systems
08-16-09, 11:15
I will always hold to the maxim, "Cotton Kills."

wake.joe
08-16-09, 11:19
Deleted

rob_s
08-27-09, 06:22
I picked up a pair of the Propper Lightweight Tactical Trouser as well as a pair of the Tactical Shorts. I wore the shorts at a match on Saturday from 12:00 to 16:00, and the trousers at a match on Tuesday from 17:00 to 21:30.

I have some issues here and there with both designs, but in terms of the topic of heat and comfort I was pleasantly surprised with both. The Saturday match was well into 100* with the heat index, the Tuesday match well into the high 90s when we started. I wouldn't wear the pants to a daytime match like that (I don't know how some of you people wear long britches so much in the damn heat) but they were plenty comfortable in the Tuesday night heat, and retained zero moisture from sweat or from the light rain that we received at the end of the match.

Both are in the dryer now. We'll see if they loosen up and get a little less stiff after a few washings. Keep an eye on my site for a more detailed review of both.

Hawkeye
08-27-09, 06:58
Both are in the dryer now. We'll see if they loosen up and get a little less stiff after a few washings. Keep an eye on my site for a more detailed review of both.

I didnt mention this in my previous posts, guess I just didnt think about it. I've been wearing the woodland and desert digital pants I have to work every week. That means that they get washed once a week. They "feel" significantly better after 4-5 washings, not that they felt bad to me to begin with though. My tips on washing... cold water, on the lightest soil setting possible with regards to how dirty they are (if your washer has that capability), and low-medium heat in the dry with NO fabric softner. The relative "feel" of the material is going to vary from person to person. Like I said, to me, they feel fine new, but even better after some washings & wearings.

rob_s
08-27-09, 07:27
Well, for this washing the no fabric softner isn't an option as it's in the dryer already.

I know that the fabric softener will break down the treatment, but for one washing I chose to ignore the instructions. I actually kind of wanted to see what would happen if I "abused" them per the instructions. High heat, with fabric softener. We'll see what we get.

DANGER CLOSE
08-27-09, 12:38
i am a 'twill' kind of guy. never liked ripstop and would rather sweat a bit more. even in barracks, they never held up. the 'woodlands' tended to fade and not hold a crease that good, but were like a second skin in the field. i still use my cami bottoms that i got in 1996 at soi. only thing that sucked back then was finding twill covers to match.

Hawkeye
08-29-09, 16:24
Finally had some time to do a few more. Here are some Multicam shots (late afternoon sun, partly cloudy).......... Impressive as always.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Multicam-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Multicam-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Multicam-3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Multicam-4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/Multicam-5.jpg

Littlebear
08-29-09, 17:30
Would any of you know how well the synthetic blends fare in case of fire? A friend of mine got seriously burned in a fire while hunting in Alaska... One of his buddies did not make it.
They were all wearing "high tech" synthetic clothing. Since then, silk, cotton and wool are all I wear.
I am a dinosaur and still wear 100% cotton olive green BDUs. They work for me, as the game I am after seems to care less about patterns and more about movement.

Hawkeye
08-29-09, 19:15
Polyester and Nylon are not friendly with fire. They melt. Cotton and wool char instead of melting.

kmrtnsn
08-29-09, 19:21
I'll stick with synthetics. Try drying out a wet down sleeping bag and see how long it takes.

Hawkeye
08-30-09, 13:53
Some GenII X-Camo shots.........


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/GenIIX-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/GenIIX-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/Camo%20comparison/GenIIX-3.jpg

RogerinTPA
08-30-09, 20:10
Thanks for the camo comparison. I have a butt load of old style woodland BDUs and some Multicam, which I like the most. I was wondering how old Vietnam era ERDLs (I had a couple of pair from my old man, back in the day) http://www.vietnamgear.com/kit.aspx?kit=686
or Tigerstrips would compare. http://www.vietnamgear.com/kit.aspx?kit=666

I think the ERDLs would still be quite effective, maybe on par with Multicam due to the colors and pattern.

Abraxas
08-30-09, 21:30
i am a 'twill' kind of guy. never liked ripstop and would rather sweat a bit more. even in barracks, they never held up. the 'woodlands' tended to fade and not hold a crease that good, but were like a second skin in the field. i still use my cami bottoms that i got in 1996 at soi. only thing that sucked back then was finding twill covers to match.

That's no shit, I also hated how sometimes the black in the twill would turn purple after 1 wash. That happened to me even when I bought the same brand at the same time. One would change and the other would not