Maximum pistol range with JHPs

[298436]

I was doing some testing with my Sig P228 9x19mm (love it) from 7, 15, 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. I wanted to know the maximum accurate range I could expect my pistol to perform. Freely admit that no professional pistol training has been undertaken, but it's high on the priority list. :p

Ammo used was WWB 115gr ammo. Shot from a rested position, I got....

Range..GrpSize.....ShotsFired
7yds......1.25"............5/5
15yds....3.75"............5/5
25yds....4.50"............5/5
50yds....9.00"............3/5
75yds....5.50"............3/10
100yds..undet............1/10?

Conditions were ~15mph unsteady wind from 7 o'clock, ~20ºC. I have yet to determine the reason for irregular grouping at 15yds with GDHP 124gr +P.

It got me thinking about something: what is the maximum range with my 3.9" barrel for my Speer GDHP 124gr +P to reliably expand? 25yds? 50yds? Assume 4-layer denim and gel test -- I wouldn't shoot at windshields with a pistol beyond 25yds. Car doors and standard glass or other "light" cover no more than 50yds.

[SkiDevil]

Although I do not have the knowledge or expertise to elaborate on the Terminal Ballistics of the 9mm pistol cartridge or your chosen load in partiular. I can comment on distance shooting with the 9mm round.

I have on several occasions shot and hit distant targets with both a Sig 226 Navy and a Glock 17 both chambered in 9mm. With the Sig, I have fired at a standard ALCO BT-5 Sihiloutte at 100 yards using a 15 round magazine and kept 12-13 shoots center of mass, firing while standing from an unsupported position.

With the Glock, I once frequented a target range with an 8" steel gong target set at a laser ranged distance of 127 yards and could consistetly strike the target, firing off-hand from an unsupported position.

In addition, with an Uzi Submachince gun, I was shooting with my uncle, we were hitting targets at 200 yds plus with the selector set on 3rd burst and semi-auto.

The bottom-line, with some practice/ training you would be surprised how far away you can hit a target with a pistol. In the near future, I plan on buying another Sig chambered in the .357 Sig cartridge. Now there is a cartridge that I would like to really shoot far away with sometime.

Finally, the best way to become a better pistol shot is by shooting A LOT. If you don't already have a .22 LR pistol, consider purchasing one. Shoot it for a while and watch how much your accuarcy improves with your centerfire pistols.

I can't even guess how many thousands of rounds of .22 rimfire I have shot in my 30 plus years of shooting guns. It has been a substantial amount. Acquiring skill requires dedicated practice and training.

As for the training, find a local NRA chartered shooting club/ range. This way an experienced trainer can point-out any corrections which may be needed with your grip, stance, sight picture, and/ or trigger control. You may already be doing everything right, but it doesn't hurt to verify it. Also, remember that of all the firearms, the handgun/ pistol is the most difficult to master.

Keep shooting and keep it fun.
If I can manage to find the time, I will try your course of fire myself.

Regards
SkiDevil

P.S. The history channel runs a program about Shooting/ Marksmanship. One of the shooters show cased, I believe that it was Bob Mullins, is shown hitting targets with a Colt 1911 in .45 ACP at 300 Yards!
They re-run these shows on the weekend frequently or you can order the episodes online via the History Channel.

[298436]

At 100yds I could see that splashes were around the proximity of the target. While there are some hits on the target that are undefinable as to what distance they were fired at, it gave me a good idea of the practical effective range of my pistol and I under a low-stress enviroment. Add in wind (more extreme), moving targets and extreme stress and I would figure 25yds max. If that.

If you're looking at hot pistol loads for autos I would look at 9x23Win. That caliber can approach and match .357Mag velocities. I heard about one person locally who used 90gr bullets and reached around 1800fps. 9mm Largo is another cartridge but 9x23Win can be loaded hotter and is safer due to stronger brass. http://www.burnscustom.com/9x23.html

I expect any combat pistol to be able to hit a man-sized target at least 90% of the time at 75yds no questions asked. The real question I'd like to know is what is the maximum distance that my JHPs will reliably expand in denim, given that most tests IIRC are from 10ft.

[SkiDevil]

At 100yds I could see that splashes were around the proximity of the target. While there are some hits on the target that are undefinable as to what distance they were fired at, it gave me a good idea of the practical effective range of my pistol and I under a low-stress enviroment. Add in wind (more extreme), moving targets and extreme stress and I would figure 25yds max. If that.

If you're looking at hot pistol loads for autos I would look at 9x23Win. That caliber can approach and match .357Mag velocities. I heard about one person locally who used 90gr bullets and reached around 1800fps. 9mm Largo is another cartridge but 9x23Win can be loaded hotter and is safer due to stronger brass. http://www.burnscustom.com/9x23.html

I expect any combat pistol to be able to hit a man-sized target at least 90% of the time at 75yds no questions asked. The real question I'd like to know is what is the maximum distance that my JHPs will reliably expand in denim, given that most tests IIRC are from 10ft.

I believe that the 9X23 Win. was essentially discontinued, but I may be wrong (read it somewhere). Yes, the ballistics on that particular cartridge are interesting. Smith & Wesson produced a pistol in the cartridge and it was invogue when initially introduced by some competitive shooters. The 10mm can also be loaded fairly hot in the right pistol as well. However, because I am not an avid reloader at this point, I am inclined to stay with easily obtained calibers. In my area it is sometimes difficult to even find .357 Sig ammunition.

As for practical accuracy, I would agree that most pistols are far more accuarte than the shooter. I once owned an HK P7 and it shot one ragged hole groups at 50 ft with just about anything I loaded it with. And I don't think I could shoot to the capability of the gun.

As for the expansion of the 9mm JHP there is a lot of information out there on ballistic testing of rounds. I know that the FBI regularly conducts tests and you may locate some by searching through the FBI Bulletin or one of their publicly diseminated reports (eventually released). However, the problem that may arise is that a vast majority of Law Enforcement has shifted from the 9mm to the .40 SW and the .357 Sig.

All I can say IMHO is that sometimes the effectiveness of the JHP can be exagerated or overblown. All one needs to do is actually look at bullets fired through the human body. Many of these JHP projectiles don't even expand, becuase it is difficult to push the round-out at a high enough velocity. According to Chuck Taylor, this figure was approx. 30% when he wrote on the subject in COMBAT HANDGUNNERY 4th Edition. Lastly, I think that it is more critical to focus on shot placement rather than bullet design. Case in point, look at the large number of people shot with pistol cartridges and the number who actually die. The survival rate for someone shot with a pistol cartridge is quite high, barring catching a round in the head/ vital organ.

Lastly, the only way to truly test for the max. distance will be to purchase ballistic gelatin/ denim material and actually conduct the test. Just from recalling some chronograph figures Molon posted for various 9mm rounds out of a Sig 229 and Berretta 92, I would speculate that the distance to where expansion ceases would not be far. But it is important to understand that even though the projectile may not expand does not diminish its terminal potential in the least IF proper shot placement is employed.

In conclusion, in my personal experience in working in some of the worst/ crime ridden parts of Southern California I can tell you that I have seen first-hand the effects of bullets penetrating the human body. Also, I have been involved-in and witnessed the immediate results of shootings by various individuals both in Law Enforcement and those not. Without exception, the vast majority of shootings are very upclose and personal. Although it is wise to practice to 25 yards or further, the reality of life is that the actual distance will be likely measured in feet not yards.

Best of Luck,
SkiDevil

Perhaps, someone like Molon or DocG could provide some better insight for you.