View Full Version : WTF? Where Has This Story Been??
The media are just flat out scum of the earth anymore. I mean scum's scum.
This story deserved to be covered, and covered for exactly what it was. That being a very significant hate crime. Instead it was apparently ignored while the media likely fretted over the most trivial anti-Republican horseshit conceivable. They say it was covered at the very bottom, but I never saw it and I read the news everyday. Even the police seem complacent. Why? Don't want to start trouble in the city?
Why are those on the left so self-hating? What is the objective, or overall purpose in literally turning on your own race? These white pieces of shit shun other whites (except gays) because it's the ****ing politically correct thing to do in journalism today. Fact's always matter, black or white. And no I wasn't there, but read the article and draw your own conclusions.
This is the type of thing that simply must not be allowed to continue. I am starting to like the Rush's, Beck's and Hannity's more and more. They aren't perfect, but they will do for me.
Kentucky Man Convicted of Brutal Rape and Murder of Tennessee Couple
Tuesday, August 25, 2009
AP
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. — A Kentucky man was convicted Tuesday of murder in the brutal carjacking, rape and murder of a young Tennessee couple who were snatched while they were on a date in 2007.
Letalvis Cobbins, 26, of Lebanon, Ky., is the first of four defendants charged with participating in the attack on Channon Christian, 21, and her boyfriend, Christopher Newsom, 23. Cobbins admitted taking part, but he denied on the stand last week that he was a killer.
The jury found him guilty of multiple counts of first-degree and felony murder in the death of Christian but opted for lesser charges of facilitating murder in the slaying of Newsom. They also convicted him of rape, kidnapping and robbery, charges that can carry sentences of 15 to 25 years in prison.
Cobbins slightly shook his head no as the jury read guilty verdicts on 33 of the 38 counts. He showed no other emotion. Relatives of the victims wept.
The sequestered jury from Nashville was to begin the sentencing phase Wednesday and consider whether to sentence Cobbins to death.
"I have been saying that we were going to get him and the rest of the animals that he was running with," Gary Christian, Channon's father, said outside the courtroom. "I can't even tell you what all those guilties were, but he raped my daughter and he is responsible for her murder. ... Tomorrow is going to be the nail in his coffin."
"They considered each point and they took their time and I think they did a fine job," said Newsom's mother, Mary Newsom.
Christian, a University of Tennessee student, and Newsom were on a date Jan. 6, 2007, when her sport utility vehicle was carjacked at gunpoint by several people in Knoxville.
The attackers blindfolded and bound the couple and took them to a rundown rental house. Police concluded Newsom was soon taken away, sexually assaulted, shot in the back of the head, set on fire and left beside some railroad tracks.
Christian was beaten and repeatedly raped over the next 24 hours. An autopsy said she died of suffocation after she was choked, wrapped in plastic bags and dumped in a trash can.
Related StoriesTrial Under Way in Racially Charged Carjacking, Rape and Murder of Knoxville Couple
Cobbins' brother, Lemaricus Davidson, 28, of Knoxville, has been identified by investigators as the ringleader in the attack. Davidson, Cobbins' friend George Thomas, 26, and girlfriend Vanessa Coleman, 21, both of Lebanon, all are in jail awaiting trial. Another person, Eric Boyd, is serving a federal prison sentence for being an accessory.
Cobbins testified against his attorney's advice, telling the jury he helped with the carjacking. He said Christian asked him to help her the day after the kidnapping, offering oral sex if he would persuade the others to let her go. He said she was tied up and he admitted orally raping her.
But Cobbins said he didn't set Christian free because he was too scared of his brother. He denied killing either victim. Experts testified that Newsom was killed with Davidson's gun and Cobbins said he saw his brother choke Christian.
"I am sorry. I am so sorry," Cobbins testified. "I deserve to be punished for what I did."
Defense attorney Scott Green acknowledged to the jury that Cobbins was a "coward," rapist and liar, but argued that prosecutors "haven't shown you he is a killer."
Assistant District Attorney Takisha Fitzgerald told jurors that Cobbins changed his story several times and could have driven away or called police but didn't "because he was part of it."
Cobbins began the trial by pleading guilty to lesser counts of facilitating the kidnapping, stealing the SUV and raping Christian. He faces multiple sentences of eight to 12 years on those guilty pleas.
Some conservative Internet commentators and white supremacist agitators accused the national media of reverse discrimination by failing to give the case involving white victims and black suspects the same attention paid to white-on-black hate crimes.
Investigators said the attack wasn't a hate crime, just a carjacking that went terribly wrong. Local media and The Associated Press have covered developments in the case since it began.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,542564,00.html?test=latestnews
And no, I am not trying to incite or start trouble here. I consider this to be a legitimate issue that has been ignored for too long.
I know I can't do much from here but possibly create further awareness, and so be it. Something is better than nothing.
F@ck that...those sicko's deserve to die a cruel, gruesome death.
F@ck that...those sicko's deserve to die a cruel, gruesome death.
Absolutely. But the bigger issue is that the media would have had a field day where the victims black and the rapist killers white. This should and does matter.
This new style of reporting is so bizarre that it truly defies any respectable logic that I can possibly think of. I believe it derives from too many panzi professors spewing their ultra-liberal, completely blind ideology to those that seem not to know any better before attending their respective schools.
Those that want to specialize in journalism really seem to soak the baseless slop up for some unknown reason.
M4tographer
08-25-09, 20:42
Investigators said the attack wasn't a hate crime, just a carjacking that went terribly wrong.
Yeah, a regular comedy of errors. :rolleyes:
Media was too busy with the Duke "rape" case to bother with this.
"Investigators said the attack wasn't a hate crime, just a carjacking that went terribly wrong."
dude... that's all it was, man. just a car-jacking that "went terribly wrong."
happens all the time.. you mean to steal someone's car, and end up raping and torturing them for 24 ****ing hours before executing them. hasn't ever happened to you? shit, seems like i cant jack a single car without shit going terribly wrong like that.
Absolutely. But the bigger issue is that the media would have had a field day where the victims black and the rapist killers white. This should and does matter.
This new style of reporting is so bizarre that it truly defies any respectable logic that I can possibly think of. I believe it derives from too many panzi professors spewing their ultra-liberal, completely blind ideology to those that seem not to know any better before attending their respective schools.
Those that want to specialize in journalism really seem to soak the baseless slop up for some unknown reason.
Wow...I agree with 100% of what you just said. This makes me think of the white family in Ohio, that was attacked recently by over 50 Black Teenagers. Where was the media outcry for that also???
It truly makes me sick.
Graduated from UT and have kept up with the story. There are even more hideous details about the crime. These mother fu***rs should be severely tortured and then slowly killed. Hamurabi's code, fu***rs! I firmly believe in an eye for an eye.
Lib. media can't have this go national. Contradicts their MO.
Lib. media can't have this go national. Contradicts their MO.
I don't think 1,000 Einsteins could determine what the true MO practiced by the liberal media is today. It would seem even a black hole is more explainable.
Aside from pure pandering, it makes no sense, it goes nowhere, it means nothing, and it is often even self detrimental considering many of these journalism dopes are whimpy white folks living in the city who could easily become victims of those that they are themselves complacent with.
MarshallDodge
08-25-09, 21:38
The first time I read this was in an email with the hate crime slant. It sounded too outrageous to be true so I didn't believe it until this news story came out. :(
I can't imagine what those two went through.
Scum, pure scum. :mad:
There's a special place in hell reserved for people like this. I hope he finds his way there sooner than later.
Investigators said the attack wasn't a hate crime, just a carjacking that went terribly wrong.
Yeah, because everybody knows, only whites are capable of comitting hate crimes. :rolleyes:
CarlosDJackal
08-26-09, 06:32
Those bastards don't even deserve a bullet to the head. They should duct tape a plastic bag onto their heads and let them suffocate to death like they did to one of their victims. :mad:
And I agree that this should have fallen under the category of a "hate crime". But since the victims were of a diffrent color, the chances of anyone like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton taking up this plight is nil because we all know how much of a hypocrite tey really are.
i actually knew about this case....not because the media did its job....no, because the local morning shock jock on DC101 (Elliot in the Morning) is a bit of a crime fanatic and has been keeping track of first the crime and then the case...
he too was angry about the magnitude of the story and how it was being ignored....
very sad...
This story has been the biggest news in Knoxville since the event occurred. It's criminal that it hasn't received the national attention that it deserves. Unfortunately, it didn't for the same reason the DA wouldn't go for a hate crime charge (just like another local case where three "urban youths" assaulted a white couple during a home invasion, and made the husband watch as they brutalized his wife): it's not "worth" stirring a hornet's nest.
The interesting thing is that the usual suspects in this area aren't calling for "no justice, no peace" or to let these "troubled youths" go. Members of every community would slaughter them if they tried.
The initial crime scene is only miles from my house. The other scenes are walking distance from my office. She went to my church and my pastor baptized her. So, I'm a wee bit invested in this one.
CharlieMike
08-26-09, 08:11
Is it racially charged because it was a black man who committed the crime against white people or was the attack racially motivated?
Did he set out to kill white people?
I think that would make the distinction between a "hate crime" and a crime.
Is it racially charged because it was a black man who committed the crime against white people or was the attack racially motivated?
Did he set out to kill white people?
I think that would make the distinction between a "hate crime" and a crime.
Who knows? The DA simply states that race wasn't an issue. Any discussion of the matter is disregarded as hate speech in and of itself. When asked about this crew letting African-Americans they'd carjacked go yet killing a white couple, the DA simply repeats "race wasn't an issue."
There's a history of not prosecuting hate crimes perpetrated by one side against the other in this area. So, no one trusts the DA on this issue.
Is it racially charged because it was a black man who committed the crime against white people or was the attack racially motivated?
Did he set out to kill white people?
I think that would make the distinction between a "hate crime" and a crime.
Due to the specific circumstances of the case, I don't think a fu*king rocket scientist is needed to determine what their motives were at the time. Ignorance must be bliss.
I would say common sense put's the burden of proof on you to explain why it wasn't a hate crime, since you decided to ask such an empty and provocative question.
militarymoron
08-26-09, 09:48
They should duct tape a plastic bag onto their heads and let them suffocate to death like they did to one of their victims. :mad:
way too quick. i was thinking more along the lines of something medieval and prolonged.
if someone did that to my child, it'd be unimaginable.
CharlieMike
08-26-09, 09:58
I would say common sense put's the burden of proof on you to explain why it wasn't a hate crime, since you decided to ask such an empty and provocative question.
First, I'm not defending the murders and I wasn't trying to be contrary or argumentative. I asked a perfectly reasonable question and I was not trying to be provocative. The fact that you feel provoked is your problem.
Second, It is easy for you to avoid answering by claiming the burden is on me to prove it wasn't a hate crime. You're the one posting this article here in an inflammatory "WTF!?!?" kind of way. The fact is, people who's job it is to determine such things have said it is not a hate crime. There is nothing in the information you posted that suggests that the attacks were racially motivated. You clearly think it is racially motivated so I think the burden is still ON YOU.
One of your comments does shed light on why you feel so strongly about this though:
Why are those on the left so self-hating? What is the objective, or overall purpose in literally turning on your own race?
So are you so upset because of some sense of racial loyalty? Do you think it is good for Americans to cling so strongly to racial identity? If so I think this makes you just as bad as the black race baiters.
I think it is important to have a metered approach to these kind of things. We're better than this.
Just for the record, dehydration is one of the more painful ways to go. :)
Jus sayin...
So are you so upset because of some sense of racial loyalty? Do you think it is good for Americans to cling so strongly to racial identity?
There is something extremely repugnant about anyone, of ANY race, skewing the facts for leftist, idealogic reasons. This problem is only compounded when the person who decides to subdue relevant facts does so out of some mis-guided hatred for themselves. How do we fix such a commomplace mess?
Then, of course, the problem can be compounded once again by numerous individuals like yourself who can't seem to find the forest through the trees. Either because they are blind, they suck in the woods, or because they just like being lost. Either way, they still suck.
I would feel the same about a black couple having been so horribly ravaged by savage, racist white men any day of the week. I give you my absolute word on this. Please don't attempt to imply differently.
CharlieMike
08-26-09, 10:54
There is something extremely repugnant about anyone, of ANY race, skewing the facts for leftist, idealogic reasons.
I agree, there is something extremely repugnant about anyone skewing the facts for any reason. You're just attempting to skew it the other way.
This problem is only compounded when the person who decides to subdue relevant facts does so out of some mis-guided hatred for themselves. How do we fix such a commomplace mess?
The misguided self hatred on all sides and I think the only way to fix it is to shrug racial identities and take on an American identity. This is difficult to do because issue of class and race are so deeply ingrained in our culture. I don't think we can fit this topic in this thread though.
Then, of course, the problem can be compounded once again by numerous individuals like yourself who can't seem to find the forest through the trees. Either because they are blind, they suck in the woods, or because they just like being lost. Either way, they still suck.
You insist that there is something I'm not seeing. Please show it to me. There is NOTHING in your post that suggests it was a racially motivated crime. My original post was just a request for information. I wasn't trying to bait you into this drawn out discussion. I think it is telling that you seem so upset that I asked you to *gasp* back up your claims with facts!
I'm willing to accept whatever information you offer but in your two posts after my request, you've only provided accusations and innuendo.
I would feel the same about a black couple having been so horribly ravaged by savage, racist white men any day of the week. I give you my absolute word on this. Please don't attempt to imply differently.
I'm not questioning your beliefs -- those are yours and I can't control them. I am questioning your motives for posting the article in this way. You avoid providing a reason you think this is a hate crime. There is NOTHING in the original post that suggests it is. Merely being an interracial crime does not make it a hate crime.
What is scary is that you posted the article and merely IMPLY it is a hate crime without giving any facts to back up your implication. I think it is dangerous to whip everyone up into a frenzy this way.
It is still a horrible crime and I think it is reasonable to talk about it without bringing race into it.
i seem to recall that these 4 friends had been car-jacking black people for quite a while- simply taking the car and leaving the people. the first young, spoiled, good looking white kids they come across, they change their MO from simply car-jacking to vicious, sadistic torture, and rape and murder.
that doesn't seem racially motivated?
it does to me. they tortured, raped, and murdered those kids because they were white. the point isn't even that THIS case was definately racially motivated. it's not even that these guys SHOULD be charged with hate crimes. Safety- correct me if i'm wrong, but the point is simply the irony of the fact that had the races been inverted in this case, the 4 white guys would have been charged with hate-crimes and it would have made national news.
It is still a horrible crime and I think it is reasonable to talk about it without bringing race into it.
With all due respect, as stated earlier, ignorance must be bliss.
Not wasting anymore energy on this one with you. Couldn't possibly care less what you think about it now.
Deleted... in attempt not to derail thread, resulting in near certain closure of thread.
feel free to PM for further debate on ethnocentrism.
Safety- correct me if i'm wrong, but the point is simply the irony of the fact that had the races been inverted in this case, the 4 white guys would have been charged with hate-crimes and it would have made national news.
Correct, that's the point. And I'm not pretty certain it does not require someone of your above average intelligence to figure out there is and has been a real issue there.
CharlieMike
08-26-09, 12:47
The fact that the killer's MO changed from one victim to another is not evidence that there was animus towards white people. You might think there is and there very well may be but, so far, that would be your unsubstantiated opinion.
It is my opinion that these guys were just all around scumbags and I doubt there was a racial motive. It might have been a matter of escalation -- they worked their way up to murder. That, however, is also just my opinion and mine doesn't count. It just happens to agree with person who's opinion does count!
As for the perceived irony or role reversal, I don't think there is any. Someone cited the Duke University rape case but, to my knowledge, no one was ever charged with a hate crime. Certain details of the case led the prosecutor to suggest it but I don't think it ever happened. The judicial system worked in the end. Yes, it probably ruined people's lives but no "hate crime" modification was ever actually invoked.
But really, for there to be irony, the case that the original poster discussed must involve blacks WRONGLY ACCUSED OF A HATE CRIME. Maybe there is irony after all!
Or maybe you're saying there is irony because you believe there is a systematic favoring of a particular race over another -- this time favoring blacks. This only works if there is proof a hate crime occurred that they're ignoring.
So if there is outrage over any kind of inequity, please show me. Where is it? I'll accept it.
Interracial crime does not always mean hate crime. If you're crying "hate crime" just to create some irony or inequity that doesn't exist, you're just as bad as Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton and *that* is one of the things killing America.
Please note that I haven't called anyone ignorant or otherwise used personal attacks.
Who gives a shit why they did it?:rolleyes:
Does it some how change what they deserve to get for it(slow painfull death)?
This whole idea of "hate crimes" is BS.I thought only hardcore lefties supported such non-sense.
CharlieMike,
It's pretty simple. If the races were reversed the story would have had prime time news coverage on every network and it would be called a hate crime.
Instead because the victims were white in this case, it receives little media attention and is not classed as a hate crime.
This is because blacks committing a crime, motivated by hate or not, against white does is counter to the narrative the liberal media is attempting to sell.
Cameron
pretty well summed up, cameron.
Safety, I apologize in advance for potentially getting this thread shut down, again (fixed myself on the last one), but it needs to be said-
Or maybe you're saying there is irony because you believe there is a systematic favoring of a particular race over another -- this time favoring blacks.
YES. and it's not "this time," it's every ****ing time.
This only works if there is proof a hate crime occurred that they're ignoring.
i don't accept your rule. this has been an on-going thing since the 60s.. the poor blacks cant be held accountable for crime and stupidity because the evil white man has suppressed him to the point that he's no better than a slightly retarded child. its a ****in insult to black people, and it's a ****ing insult to justice.
don't bother citing the disproportionate number of blacks in prisons and with criminal records and so forth- judges are not politicians, cops are not journalists. cops decide who gets handcuffs, judges decide who gets longer sentences, and appauled jurors hearing a case hand down verdicts based on what's presented to them.
Spurholder
08-26-09, 14:03
judges are not politicians, cops are not journalists. cops decide who gets handcuffs, judges decide who gets longer sentences, and appauled jurors hearing a case hand down verdicts based on what's presented to them.
Probably one of the best posts I've ever read...on any board. Kudos, sir.
QuickStrike
08-26-09, 16:53
This POS deserves to be butchered. I don't care about bad the environment/upbringing was, etc... Wrong is wrong.
Bill Bryant
08-26-09, 17:34
(delete)
Please note that I haven't called anyone ignorant or otherwise used personal attacks.
No you haven't, and I convey my respects to you for that. Beyond that, you are really an annoying $#%^&@*.
Unfortunately in your attempt to sound like a hapless defense attorney, you fall far short of accomplishing your goal to portray this as a non-racial incident. You demand I provide facts to prove something that we both know in our gut requires none. And yes, you frustrate me with your ability to communicate but seemingly poor ability to analyze basic facts.
Listen man, just because neither the young man or woman are alive today to state that there was a racial bias to this crime is by no means what so ever an indication that there was none. I (as well as most here) can see the forest through the trees. You can't.
Today's kindergarten session is over.
montanadave
08-26-09, 18:11
No you haven't, and I convey my respects to you for that. Beyond that, you are really an annoying $#%^&@*.f... Today's kindergarten session is over.
I don't have a dog in this fight and am likely to regret ever opening my mouth BUT why do you feel the necessity to be such a condescending prick whenever someone doesn't swallow your POV hook, line and sinker?
Reasonable, rational people can disagree and not resort to abusive ad hominem attacks. CharlieMike makes some valid points, you don't agree--****ing get over it.
A pack of assholes did this to two innocent human beings. That's enough for me.
The only question after that's decided is : Gas , needle , electric chair , rope , or firing squad ?
How does a car-jack "horribly gone wrong" turn into kidnap, rape, torture and murder? You take the car minus the occupants of the car and take off. How can you go wrong with that? I highly doubt this young couple fought back during this car-jacking and should have been left alone. It's clear car-jacking was not the original intent, just a mere convenience for the defendants, investigators and prosecutor to claim. Did these POS target this young couple because they were white with no intentions of car-jacking and decided to commit kidnapping, rape, torture and murder. I think the investigators and prosecutor needed to hear the defendants say or utter the words "white people" before claiming it was a racial incident. The prosecutor and investigators should have looked at the totality of the crimes committed and the make up of the groups involved, which in this case all blacks (defendants) against all whites (victims). The medias are afraid of receiving bad publicity and are only interested in selling more newspapers or more ads for television stations. If a group of whites committed a crime against a black person(s), it would be racial. If a group (regardless of ethnicity) committed a crime against gays, it would be racial.
I don't have a dog in this fight and am likely to regret ever opening my mouth BUT why do you feel the necessity to be such a condescending prick whenever someone doesn't swallow your POV hook, line and sinker?
Reasonable, rational people can disagree and not resort to abusive ad hominem attacks. CharlieMike makes some valid points, you don't agree--****ing get over it.
To avoid you totally destroying this humble little thread (if that even possible now), I will play nice guy.
Tell me, you smart man you, where am I going wrong? Educate me, if you would be so mature and benevolent. CharlieMike fell far short, but maybe you can do better.
And a real thanks to you for highlighting my potential ignorance, Dave. I hope to be the better person for it, assuming you are correct that is. :)
rickrock305
08-26-09, 18:32
CharlieMike,
It's pretty simple. If the races were reversed the story would have had prime time news coverage on every network and it would be called a hate crime.
Instead because the victims were white in this case, it receives little media attention and is not classed as a hate crime.
This is because blacks committing a crime, motivated by hate or not, against white does is counter to the narrative the liberal media is attempting to sell.
Cameron
thats simply untrue.
a quick visit to youtube will give you a whole bunch of videos of white people beating up black people, white cops beating black suspects, white cops shooting unarmed black suspects, etc...none of which have made the nightly news.
rickrock305
08-26-09, 18:33
I don't have a dog in this fight and am likely to regret ever opening my mouth BUT why do you feel the necessity to be such a condescending prick whenever someone doesn't swallow your POV hook, line and sinker?
Reasonable, rational people can disagree and not resort to abusive ad hominem attacks. CharlieMike makes some valid points, you don't agree--****ing get over it.
thank you.
montanadave
08-26-09, 19:07
To avoid you totally destroying this humble little thread (if that even possible now), I will play nice guy.
Tell me, you smart man you, where am I going wrong? Educate me, if you would be so mature and benevolent. CharlieMike fell far short, but maybe you can do better.
And a real thanks to you for highlighting my potential ignorance, Dave. I hope to be the better person for it, assuming you are correct that is. :)
Don't do me any favors. I never said you were ignorant. In fact, I never disagreed with a ****ing thing you said. What I objected to was your condescending attitude towards those who dare to question your inerrant interpretation of the facts. If you need another illustration of my point, read your response to me.
It's not about ignorance. It's about arrogance.
It's not about ignorance. It's about arrogance.
Well spoken...but way, way off the mark.
Frustration, and an extremely legitimate frustration at that, was the description you should have cited. Not arrogance. I have admitted being wrong here in these forums numerous times, and will surely do so again one day.
But, not tonight good buddy.
montanadave
08-26-09, 19:30
I wasn't lookin' for a fight, I've said my piece and the old lady just walked in so I think I'm gonna go eat some supper. Carry on.
I wasn't lookin' for a fight, I've said my piece and the old lady just walked in so I think I'm gonna go eat some supper. Carry on.
I do respect your opinion, and I am aware that there are not enough tangible facts to prove it was a hate crime via specific evidence. Again, I go with the gut feeling I have here based on reading several versions of the killings. Am I always 100% right? Certainly not. But I am comfortable with this judgment in this particular case.
However, there is no denying that if it were whites raping and killing blacks the story would have received very substantial coverage. That was my main point.
Hope supper was good. No hard feelings.
montanadave
08-26-09, 22:47
Supper was great. Nice quiet evening with the wife. Headed for bed. And certainly no hard feelings here either.
i seem to recall that these 4 friends had been car-jacking black people for quite a while- simply taking the car and leaving the people. the first young, spoiled, good looking white kids they come across, they change their MO from simply car-jacking to vicious, sadistic torture, and rape and murder.
Who's to say that deviant sexual predation wasnt the motive?That's the problem with these thought crimes/qualifiers(AKA "hate crimes").
Yes...
This deserved much more media attention.I hadnt even heard of it until now.
These POS dirt bags deserve far more than our system would ever allow.
..."Hate crimes" are still BS.
Their only purpose is to serve the liberal victim culture.Obviously they wouldnt be used evenly and responsibly.They're bias and ambiguous by design.
dookie1481
08-27-09, 01:09
I agree, there is something extremely repugnant about anyone skewing the facts for any reason. You're just attempting to skew it the other way.
The misguided self hatred on all sides and I think the only way to fix it is to shrug racial identities and take on an American identity. This is difficult to do because issue of class and race are so deeply ingrained in our culture. I don't think we can fit this topic in this thread though.
You insist that there is something I'm not seeing. Please show it to me. There is NOTHING in your post that suggests it was a racially motivated crime. My original post was just a request for information. I wasn't trying to bait you into this drawn out discussion. I think it is telling that you seem so upset that I asked you to *gasp* back up your claims with facts!
I'm willing to accept whatever information you offer but in your two posts after my request, you've only provided accusations and innuendo.
I'm not questioning your beliefs -- those are yours and I can't control them. I am questioning your motives for posting the article in this way. You avoid providing a reason you think this is a hate crime. There is NOTHING in the original post that suggests it is. Merely being an interracial crime does not make it a hate crime.
What is scary is that you posted the article and merely IMPLY it is a hate crime without giving any facts to back up your implication. I think it is dangerous to whip everyone up into a frenzy this way.
It is still a horrible crime and I think it is reasonable to talk about it without bringing race into it.
You're absolutely right. And before anyone attacks me for agreeing, please invert the races of those involved and the ideological stances of the people on this board as a fun theoretical exercise. Then think about it.
Jay
You insist that there is something I'm not seeing. Please show it to me. There is NOTHING in your post that suggests it was a racially motivated crime. My original post was just a request for information. I wasn't trying to bait you into this drawn out discussion. I think it is telling that you seem so upset that I asked you to *gasp* back up your claims with facts!
CharlieMike, if you are even still checking in here, my sincerest apologies to you. Montana Dave was right, looking back I did come off like an arrogant ass yesterday. I guess I can seem that way sometimes, especially when a topic is as troubling as what happened to these two innocent people.
I stand by my interpretation of the crime, as well as my frustration and dislike of the media...as well as anyone, black, white or whatever, who would do something so unbelievably horrible to what seemed like two very nice young people.
Sure I am angry, but I am not angry with you, sir. So again, sorry.
CarlosDJackal
08-27-09, 13:08
Is it racially charged because it was a black man who committed the crime against white people or was the attack racially motivated?
Did he set out to kill white people?
I think that would make the distinction between a "hate crime" and a crime.
"Hate crime" is a label that some feel-good politician came up with to allow the federal government to step in and take up the case in Federal court. While I understand why they did so (to put an end to racially-based court cases at the local or state level - there was a time that in certain localities the kkk had a lot of their members sitting as judges and made up whole juries); it has been heavily misused to prosecute anyone who commits a crime against certain demographic groups but not others.
In other words, if this case were reverse and the criminals were white and their victims were of other minority groups or gays; they would have probably been prosecuted under this law.
FWIW, I personally feel that a the horror of a crime should not be elevated to some arbitrary label (hate crime) based on a difference in race, creed, sexual orientation, or religion between the victim and attacker is. Murder is murder and those who commit them should be prosecuted equally based on the circumstances (ie: self-defense, accidents, negligence, etc.). JM2CW.
"Hate crime" is a label that some feel-good politician came up with to allow the federal government to step in and take up the case in Federal court. While I understand why they did so (to put an end to racially-based court cases at the local or state level - there was a time that in certain localities the kkk had a lot of their members sitting as judges and made up whole juries); it has been heavily misused to prosecute anyone who commits a crime against certain demographic groups but not others.
In other words, if this case were reverse and the criminals were white and their victims were of other minority groups or gays; they would have probably been prosecuted under this law.
FWIW, I personally feel that a the horror of a crime should not be elevated to some arbitrary label (hate crime) based on a difference in race, creed, sexual orientation, or religion between the victim and attacker is. Murder is murder and those who commit them should be prosecuted equally based on the circumstances (ie: self-defense, accidents, negligence, etc.). JM2CW.
fully agree- "hate crime" shouldn't have anything to do with a crime of this magnitude- it shouldnt be necessary, once you sink to this level of deviance. kidnapping, raping, torturing and murdering should already be the worst thing a person can do, and modifiers shouldn't increase the severity of the punishment- because the punishment should already be as severe as it can get.
unfortunately, it looks like this particular case might have benefitted from an additional level of punishment. i dont care who rolled on who, all 4 should be receiving multiple consecutive life sentences without any chance for parole, and it doesn't look like that is or will be the case.
Local news covered the hell out of it. We had live coverage because we are in the area.
The jury wouldn't kill him and gave him Life without parole. I think he and the others should be hung on the courthouse lawn along with the rest of the rapists, murders. and sex offenders.
His sister said he wasn't an animal.......... then why did he act like one when alive.
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