View Full Version : Officer fired after AR photo shoot
EzGoingKev
08-25-09, 17:09
One officer was fired and several others were disciplined after staging a photo shoot on the trunk of their cruiser with a "scantily clad" waitress posing with a patrol rifle.
Article (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0820091twinpeaks1.html)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art4/0820091twinpeaks1a.jpg
Well, damn, that just ain't right.
Every hot young chick should have the right to sit on a car trunk holding a rifle without fearing that the guy driving the car and owning the rifle will get into trouble for letting her do so.
I guess I could be talked into letting her sit on my trunk holding my "rifle".
Damn the sacrifices I'm willing to make for hot young chicks. :D
PRGGodfather
08-25-09, 17:23
Hot chicks.
Historically, cops get in trouble over the "Three B's: Bills, booze and broads."
Usually, none of them are worth losing a job.
Still, it takes maturity to know. Maturity comes from experience. Experience comes from making mistakes. Mistakes come from being young. Go figure.
Maybe the one who lost his job was a little less than forthcoming or had a prior -- since others were merely disciplined. Who knows?
Still, letting her pose with an AR? The problem was posing on the police car, and being stupid enough to memorialize it! I guess the photo was the trophy...
(Heck, I might be tempted to give her my wallet! ;) )
SeriousStudent
08-25-09, 17:26
What's the problem? Was it an Olympic Arms rifle that was making the department look bad? ;)
I laughed when I saw this one. I deal with girls like this all the time at my job, many a doorman has gotten in trouble or lost his job over doing dumb shit for a hot girl that's not going to let you in her pants on the best day of your life. My co-workers always laugh because I'm the first one to tell a girl to cover her shit up and not even bat an eye at a set of boobs in my face. Tits are nice, but keeping my job, and keeping the club out of a "moral code" violation with the NGC are nicer.
What's the problem? Was it an Olympic Arms rifle that was making the department look bad? ;)
I thought the same thing, can't tell, but the rollmark looks like it might be a BM.
Damn!! Nice photo and all but the officer definately deserved to have his ass handed to him on this one.
Business_Casual
08-25-09, 17:50
I am dubious that her real name is "Bambi" as it says on the name tag.
M_P
Whoever wasted time and money reporting and investigating this should be fired, they would obviously rather do crap like this than go hunt some badguys. I mean I'm real broke up over some floozy named Bambi offending the only guy in texas driving a toyota truck, but 50 years ago this would have been a two minute ass chewing, and a file folder tossing.
RogerinTPA
08-25-09, 18:27
What AR?????:p
QuickStrike
08-25-09, 18:38
Damn that is a short skirt.. *squints* :D
Should not have gotten fired over this. Looks like relatively harmless fun.
As far as my department goes, while I think they would be pissed, and possibly transfer you to the boondocks for a while (conduct unbecoming an officer), I don't think one would get fired for this. The officers who did this aren't doing anything illegal...so what's really the big deal? So you took a photo of some bimbo on your car, do you know how many people have stopped and wanted to take pictures with me or one of my brethren if we're at some high-traffic post? And some of the photos are with some very attractive women, so what if they posted it on facebook or something? One of my brethren posed for a picture with Ron Jeremy at an traffic accident, which of course ended up on the internet and in the media, and nothing happened to him.
variablebinary
08-25-09, 19:43
Cute chick. Not worth losing a job over. But the infraction doesn't seem that bad either.
The_War_Wagon
08-25-09, 19:44
Ain't NOTHIN' like 'the old days.' "KNOW thy boss" seems to be the lesson here... :(
Nathan_Bell
08-25-09, 19:49
Either the officer has had prior issues or someone needs to pull the ram-rod out of their ass.
An ass chewing and career long ribbing over his judgement would most likely have corrected this.
as has been said, my guess would be this is an officer they were looking for an excuse to get rid of.. since he was probably on his way out one way or another, perhaps it was worth it. i've had some jobs i wouldn't have minded losing for a ride on that..
hope he got some, and i hope it was worth it
From the article I read, I think the problem wasn't just that she was handling the firearm, it was that the officers involved were intoxicated.
goodoleboy
08-25-09, 20:02
Well, I know that everybody makes mistakes, but that was a bit much. For crying out loud, there was a mag in it. Handing a bimbo a loaded rifle to pose for a photo on the back of a cruiser is just plain dumb.
Whoever wasted time and money reporting and investigating this should be fired, they would obviously rather do crap like this than go hunt some badguys. I mean I'm real broke up over some floozy named Bambi offending the only guy in Texas driving a Toyota truck, but 50 years ago this would have been a two minute ass chewing, and a file folder tossing.
Agreed. An ass chewing is in order and maybe some other punishment, but fired is a bit over the top.
John_Wayne777
08-25-09, 20:34
Damn that is a short skirt.. *squints* :D
Should not have gotten fired over this. Looks like relatively harmless fun.
At some point a "skirt" ceases to be a "skirt" and becomes a wide belt. I'm back in classes again and I've noticed that apparently over the summer break shorts have gotten shorter. I didn't know it was possible, but apparently it was.
Yes...I know what most of you are thinking....hubba hubba....
...I assure you, however, that it's not all that sexy. Especially when they are so short you hear a girl wondering out loud if the string her friend told her about is from her shorts, her thong, or her tampon.
Gak.
Anyhoo, as to the picture....compare Bambi's photo to Ray Nagin's:
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2008/02/13/rifles.jpg
Which, I ask, is more problematic?
Agreed. An ass chewing is in order and maybe some other punishment, but fired is a bit over the top.
x2...
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-25-09, 21:10
I don't know if I am impressed that Nagin didn't have his finger on the trigger or dismayed about how he is trying to whole hand the grip.
Good thing Nagin got out of town and didn't have to use the rifle ;)
Bambi needs a spanking.
...I assure you, however, that it's not all that sexy. Especially when they are so short you hear a girl wondering out loud if the string her friend told her about is from her shorts, her thong, or her tampon.
I've seen number 3 personally, working at the club. Hilarious but gross at the same time.
kaiservontexas
08-25-09, 22:55
I see a recruitment poster. Then again I remember the 80s. The only difference would been instead of a waitress uniform it would have been a CHP uniform. Remember those posters of high end sports cars as police cars with hot office women in them? There has to be more to it then just this picture.
This would complicate the situation:
From the article I read, I think the problem wasn't just that she was handling the firearm, it was that the officers involved were intoxicated.
There's some info on page 3 that doesn't help either: ".... a Midland S. O. issued AR-15 weapon." So ... I gotta wonder , does the Midland Sheriff's Office routinely carry empty magazines in the trunks of their cars?
Does this kind of thing happen in the parking lot of the Ugly Stick Saloon in Fay-ville , Carolina? Or do people who go there and work there have more sense?
I have never even seen the place , just heard a little bit about it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-26-09, 07:59
I've seen number 3 personally, working at the club. Hilarious but gross at the same time.
Short leash.
Whoever wasted time and money reporting and investigating this should be fired, they would obviously rather do crap like this than go hunt some badguys. I mean I'm real broke up over some floozy named Bambi offending the only guy in texas driving a toyota truck, but 50 years ago this would have been a two minute ass chewing, and a file folder tossing.
Hell 20 years ago all that would have happened is the guys would talk about her rack and ask for the negatives to make copies.
Now to many men have handed their wife their balls and they are kept safe in sound in purses throughout this nation.
You can see a man and tell if his wife has a purse or a oversized scrotum to carry her husbands balls in.
Nowadays the tolerance of a Police Department or other Agency for officer shenanigans that reflect poorly on their employer is non-existent. Do something that the Sheriff or Chief or whatever honcho has to take time to explain away or refute to the press or public and count your career gone before the ink is dry on your termination letter.
Anything that creates a nexus between one's on duty or off duty actions to the department or agency in a negative manner and you are gone, plain and simple. The "you are held to a higher standard" is now being extensively reiterated at the academies and also strictly enforced.
In that light, a department weapon in the hands of a scantily clad civilian, on the back of a marked cruiser at an establishment that served alcohol would go over like a fart in church when ANY honcho heard about it. Chiefs do not like to be embarrassed.
motorolahamm
08-27-09, 10:03
i just think safety should be the issue if it is a patrol rifle it is prob loaded obvy that the mag is in mag well and a person probally not trained at using it after all oooll bambi is use to being on the other side of the gun
motorolahamm
08-27-09, 10:04
Hell 20 years ago all that would have happened is the guys would talk about her rack and ask for the negatives to make copies.
Now to many men have handed their wife their balls and they are kept safe in sound in purses throughout this nation.
You can see a man and tell if his wife has a purse or a oversized scrotum to carry her husbands balls in.
her rack thats a good one saying her name is bambi
Preferred User
09-01-09, 17:05
This story is now on Inside Edition. lol
SwatDawg15
09-01-09, 22:37
This whole deal makes me sick to my stomach. A off duty Police Officer called and reported the Deputies. WTF?
Round Rock PD responds and calls a freakin Investigator out. What the hell is wrong with this picture? What law was broken?
The seize a digital camera from another agency? Jeeeez
If thats how Fellow LEO's are treated there, then its a very sad day for our profession. All of the complaintaints were police officers. It is a shame that any one of the idiots didn't walk over there and ask them to use better judgement. I can't believe that those asshats did that to their brothers. That very stupid decision will come back and bite them one day. I doubt many of their co-workers will ever trust them again.
This is a very sad day in LE. We are suppose to take care of each other, not do this stupid chit.
This is a very sad day in LE. We are suppose to take care of each other, not do this stupid chit.
This is exactly why civilians need to be more and more weary of LEO. Such thinking (or more accurately group think) is what leads to the corruption of our institutions and those who work in them. Let's see, intoxicated deputies with loaded guns handed to gal for picture? I too think firing the man was extreme (though it's probably the last straw with this guy) but imputing the motives of the guy who had the sense to call in this silliness?
:):D:):D:):D:):D
stevenhyde
09-01-09, 22:52
This whole deal makes me sick to my stomach. A off duty Police Officer called and reported the Deputies. WTF?
Round Rock PD responds and calls a freakin Investigator out. What the hell is wrong with this picture? What law was broken? I would imagine(and hope) that there is a law against handing a loaded department rifle to a waitress you just met.
The seize a digital camera from another agency? Jeeeez
If thats how Fellow LEO's are treated there, then its a very sad day for our profession. All of the complaintaints were police officers. It is a shame that any one of the idiots didn't walk over there and ask them to use better judgement. I can't believe that those asshats did that to their brothers. That very stupid decision will come back and bite them one day. I doubt many of their co-workers will ever trust them again.
This is a very sad day in LE.I agree! it is a sad day when people who swore to uphold the law...dont. and they have others who back them up simply cause they wear the same uniform. We are suppose to take care of each other, not do this stupid chit.
......lol. like the 4 cops who "took care" of their bretheren when officer #5 had accident #9 in a patrol car(yes 9 accidents in a patrol car, who knows how many total)....by blaming it on the lady the cop hit.
take care of people who deserve it. not just cause you wear the same uniform.
stevenhyde
09-01-09, 22:54
This is exactly why civilians need to be more and more weary of LEO. Such thinking (or more accurately group think) is what leads to the corruption of our institutions and those who work in them. Let's see, intoxicated deputies with loaded guns handed to gal for picture? I too think firing the man was extreme (though it's probably the last straw with this guy) but imputing the motives of the guy who had the sense to call in this silliness?
whoops.
cops ratting out other cops is just another sign that we're way too authoritarian. even cops feel some driving need to snitch to big daddy on their brothers. i'm really not a big fan of LE in general, but i would expect cops to "look out for" other cops, just like any other human being watches out for his own kind.
police corruption and brutality isn't even on my radar for complaints against cops.. it happens, sure- but that's old-school shit. today's problems with LE are totally different.
couple drinks after work, some hot chick showing attention... that's not "corruption," guys.
and Swatdawg- you seem like an OK guy. when i rip on LE, i'm not ripping on any-and-all cops, just the majority.
ThirdWatcher
09-02-09, 00:02
What have you covered up lately??
None of your business... after all, it didn't really happen.
BTW, lambast me all you want. I just try to finish each shift knowing I did the right thing , which doesn't include ruining people's lives (whether they are LEO's or just decent people in moments of indescretion).
You have to remember that even at the county level, the department boss is "political". Elected, appointed, whatever, they owe their job to patronage, one way or another. Add to that the vogue trend the past dozen years for "citizen review boards" and you have a two pronged, no BS, slant against anything at all that reflects bad on the department. Managers are under pressure to report nothing negative up the chain and those managers at the top will kill any embarrassing situation before that review board can get their law enforcement hating little grubbers into it. A cop screws up in some little way? He's gone before anyone can get wind of it. It his or her indiscretion is aired publicly then firing him or her shows the review board and the public how "on top" of the situation the Chief or whoever is. Like I said before, the situation now is one of no tolerance. As for the "good old days" of covering for a co-worker or letting someone from the neighboring jurisdiction slide, they are long gone. You are more likely these days to go down with him if you try. These days it is lonely behind that shield. The public hates you, your bosses don't support you; you are screwed no matter where you turn.
Was what this dipstick did a firing offense? Maybe ten years ago he'd have gotten a pass but not anymore, those days are long gone.
cops ratting out other cops is just another sign that we're way too authoritarian. even cops feel some driving need to snitch to big daddy on their brothers. i'm really not a big fan of LE in general, but i would expect cops to "look out for" other cops, just like any other human being watches out for his own kind.
police corruption and brutality isn't even on my radar for complaints against cops.. it happens, sure- but that's old-school shit. today's problems with LE are totally different.
couple drinks after work, some hot chick showing attention... that's not "corruption," guys.
and Swatdawg- you seem like an OK guy. when i rip on LE, i'm not ripping on any-and-all cops, just the majority.
You have some good points here. Systems corrupt, and current LE (along with the whole "broken Justice system") is the real problem.
Looking out for your own kind, yes in the main it is a virtue and not a vice. Yes, the punishment does seem extreme.
Still, one sees the downside of this sort of thinking with incidents like the cover up mentioned.
Not sure where I fall on this actually. I think it comes down to "whats the trend?". The trend in this country is for increased LEO involvement in "average joe" life, with ever increasing forms of privacy invasion and deterioration of liberty (like 2nd amendment rights). Fact is, for most folks LEO's are at best a tax man, and far too often a form of power play and invasive measurement by the government. So part of me is happy to see the system turned on those who would actually make a career of it.
Still, I think you are right in that higher virtue is to stick with ones own when it is something that is not actually harmful. Of course, loaded weapon being handled by intoxicated folks? That may or may not cross the line, depending on the situation. I think in this case is was good fun.
You convinced me...
None of your business... after all, it didn't really happen.
:D:D:D:D
stevenhyde
09-02-09, 01:09
cops ratting out other cops is just another sign that we're way too authoritarian. even cops feel some driving need to snitch to big daddy on their brothers.personally, I would rat out my brother, my mother, my lover or a fellow officer(if i was a cop)...if they were like those cops caught on dash-cam. or thiefs or murderers(non self defense i mean) or something terrible like that. but then again i wouldnt socialze with people like that. this guy...no. i wouldnt rat on him but i also wouldnt be friends with him...and i would probably even warn him to not be a dumbass and do something that might get him fired. i'm really not a big fan of LE in general, but i would expect cops to "look out for" other cops, just like any other human being watches out for his own kind.wait!?!?! people watch out for other people?:D when did this start? semi-sarcasm.
police corruption and brutality isn't even on my radar for complaints against cops.. it happens, sure- but that's old-school shit. today's problems with LE are totally different.what complaints would be on your radar then?
couple drinks after work, some hot chick showing attention... that's not "corruption," guys.I personally dont consider it corruption and i wouldnt have ratted him out, whether i was a fellow officer or not. i would warn him of a possible mistake. I dont let anyone hold my rifle, unless they are a pro-gun trusted friend who knows the safety rules and follows them(one person in my offline life knows i even own a rifle). I dam sure would not give someone elses rifle to a person i just met. and a loaded one at that!! Not corruption.....stupidity, maybe? thinking youll get away with stuff cause you have "brothers" maybe?
and Swatdawg- you seem like an OK guy. when i rip on LE, i'm not ripping on any-and-all cops, just the majority.
This whole watch out for your brother...your own kind.
Just cause we wear the same uniform or share blood does not mean we are the same kind.
I agree with what "crenca" said here
"
The trend in this country is for increased LEO involvement in "average joe" life,...snip..... So part of me is happy to see the system turned on those who would actually make a career of it.
Still, I think you are right in that higher virtue is to stick with ones own when it is something that is not actually harmful. Of course, loaded weapon being handled by intoxicated folks? That may or may not cross the line, depending on the situation.
"
I do have to add again that just because we wear the same uniform does not mean we are the same kind.
that means I wont feel any desire to "stick with you" simply because you wear the uniform. i need a better reason then that.
these cops...i would stick with them...in the sense that "i didnt see anything"...even if i did. I wouldnt rat them out. It would bother me that a fellow officer(if i was one) would make such a huge mistake(the pic in my eyes was a huge mistake). but i wouldnt rat on him, and i would also hope i dont need his help in the future.
ThirdWatcher
09-02-09, 03:07
I got "The Three B's" speech over 30 years ago and since then, I've seen a lot of people fall by the wayside for not heeding the advice. I don't condone this misconduct, I just believe it could have been handled more appropriately.
stevenhyde
09-02-09, 03:27
I got "The Three B's" speech over 30 years ago and since then, I've seen a lot of people fall by the wayside for not heeding the advice. I don't condone this misconduct, I just believe it could have been handled more appropriately.
Ok i searched for "the three B's speech" on google, couldnt find anything except classical music. care to explain for me.
I think he's generalizing about the 3 B's stated earlier. Bills, Booze, and Bimbos. You know, like the pre-libo speeches you give to troops before they leave for the weekend.
Basically, don't let your bills get out of hand, don't get into your cups, and don't get involved with no shady women. The three things that definitely get you the boot.
Ok i searched for "the three B's speech" on google, couldnt find anything except classical music. care to explain for me.
SWATcop556
09-02-09, 04:40
I am an LEO and I have a friend who works for Round Rock PD. I spoke with him about the incident and asked WTF was really going on.
Deputies were from out of town for training and driving a marked SO patrol ride. The restraunt is very similar to a Hooter's (which I happen to love :cool:). The deputies were inside and admitted to having 3-5 beers with their meal (keep in mind marked patrol ride is the only way to drive away). How many LEO's here have asked a person who is shit faced how much they have had to drink and been told "two beers." Could have been 3-5 or could have been more.
Deputies convince waitress to pose with a LOADED AR on the trunk of the patrol unit. I don't care about "snitching" or the "thin blue line" when it comes to being stupid with a loaded firearm IN PUBLIC while DRINKING ALCOHOL. From the sounds of it, the rifle being handed over was what finally got the local PD called. May have been a loud group of drinkers, who knows.
When said investigator shows up to find out WTF, the deputies handed him a phone and said it was there Captain. It was not. Just a friend trying to help them out. They dug their own hole and depending on previous disipline issues, may have deserved to be shit-canned, I don't know.
If I have a fellow LEO acting a fool or being a dumbass and need to be reined in, then I take them to the side, chew their ass, straighten them out, and send them on their way. I have even been on the receiving end of the same ass chewing. I have also personally arrested a deputy from my own department for being highly intoxicated at the lake and getting in a domestic dispute with his wife, then threatening people, including himself, with his duty weapon. Not the same thing but you get the idea.
We have enough problems convincing civilians that we are the good guys without acting like idiots and then expecting a free pass. For any LEO that has an issue with this situation, ask yourself this......imagine the exact same set of circumstances went down and you were called to the scene, but the individuals involved we NOT LEO's. Just some guys from a carbine class, who had a little to drink and gave a waitress a loaded gun in the parking lot. I doubt the general public would get a free pass for what is at least a Disorderly Conduct violation. There's also no telling how many department policy violations occurred. I can think of at least 7-9 if it was my department.
Besides working for an elected official, I have seen people get canned for much less. If you bring discredit to the Sheriff and his Office, which this did, you can expect heads to roll.
Wasn't there a SWAT team in NJ that was disbanded a couple of years ago for the same thing? I think it took place at a Hooters. They let the girls pose with some of their toys and the pics got posted up on Myspace or something. Somebody didn't like it and turned the team in and it ended up getting disbanded.
30 cal slut
09-02-09, 06:46
Wasn't there a SWAT team in NJ that was disbanded a couple of years ago for the same thing? I think it took place at a Hooters. They let the girls pose with some of their toys and the pics got posted up on Myspace or something. Somebody didn't like it and turned the team in and it ended up getting disbanded.
i think that was noo yawk
Hot chicks.
Historically, cops get in trouble over the "Three B's: Bills, booze and broads."
Usually, none of them are worth losing a job.
Still, it takes maturity to know. Maturity comes from experience. Experience comes from making mistakes. Mistakes come from being young. Go figure.
Maybe the one who lost his job was a little less than forthcoming or had a prior -- since others were merely disciplined. Who knows?
Still, letting her pose with an AR? The problem was posing on the police car, and being stupid enough to memorialize it! I guess the photo was the trophy...
(Heck, I might be tempted to give her my wallet! ;) )
A couple of yrs ago, one of the depts in a suburb of Oklahoma City fired 5 or 6 officers because they were all hitting up a local convenient store on duty for BJ's...some chick that worked there would take them one at a time in the back and service them...was all over the news....pretty crazy.
SwatDawg15
09-02-09, 18:17
This is exactly why civilians need to be more and more weary of LEO. Such thinking (or more accurately group think) is what leads to the corruption of our institutions and those who work in them. Let's see, intoxicated deputies with loaded guns handed to gal for picture? I too think firing the man was extreme (though it's probably the last straw with this guy) but imputing the motives of the guy who had the sense to call in this silliness?
What have you covered up lately??
First of all i don't cover shit up. I have honor, and I have gave 12 years of good creditable service. Where do you get off asking me what I "cover" up? Because I disagree with what was done? Your reaching low, and I personally could give a rats ass why you think civilians should be "weary" of us.
A couple guys asked a waitress to take a picture with a AR15. No civilians called in complaints, so I doubt they were causing a disturbance. There is more to this, and now there is one less Deputy out there serving because of it.
This is my view, and im not asking you to agree. It was a bad move on their part to do that in public, but jeeez, it was not that big of deal.
The rest will come out in the wash.
SwatDawg15
09-02-09, 18:26
I am an LEO and I have a friend who works for Round Rock PD. I spoke with him about the incident and asked WTF was really going on.
Deputies were from out of town for training and driving a marked SO patrol ride. The restraunt is very similar to a Hooter's (which I happen to love :cool:). The deputies were inside and admitted to having 3-5 beers with their meal (keep in mind marked patrol ride is the only way to drive away). How many LEO's here have asked a person who is shit faced how much they have had to drink and been told "two beers." Could have been 3-5 or could have been more.
Deputies convince waitress to pose with a LOADED AR on the trunk of the patrol unit. I don't care about "snitching" or the "thin blue line" when it comes to being stupid with a loaded firearm IN PUBLIC while DRINKING ALCOHOL. From the sounds of it, the rifle being handed over was what finally got the local PD called. May have been a loud group of drinkers, who knows.
When said investigator shows up to find out WTF, the deputies handed him a phone and said it was there Captain. It was not. Just a friend trying to help them out. They dug their own hole and depending on previous disipline issues, may have deserved to be shit-canned, I don't know.
If I have a fellow LEO acting a fool or being a dumbass and need to be reined in, then I take them to the side, chew their ass, straighten them out, and send them on their way. I have even been on the receiving end of the same ass chewing. I have also personally arrested a deputy from my own department for being highly intoxicated at the lake and getting in a domestic dispute with his wife, then threatening people, including himself, with his duty weapon. Not the same thing but you get the idea.
We have enough problems convincing civilians that we are the good guys without acting like idiots and then expecting a free pass. For any LEO that has an issue with this situation, ask yourself this......imagine the exact same set of circumstances went down and you were called to the scene, but the individuals involved we NOT LEO's. Just some guys from a carbine class, who had a little to drink and gave a waitress a loaded gun in the parking lot. I doubt the general public would get a free pass for what is at least a Disorderly Conduct violation. There's also no telling how many department policy violations occurred. I can think of at least 7-9 if it was my department.
Besides working for an elected official, I have seen people get canned for much less. If you bring discredit to the Sheriff and his Office, which this did, you can expect heads to roll.
Thats my point. Thats how I would of handled it. Out of town Deputys hitting it off with a local hottie... wonder if thats what pissed the off duty off? There is no where in the report that says any civilians complained, or even called in on them. There has to be more to this.
Also the Captain was legit. According to their rank structure the Capt over operations if over the LT over patrol, communications, ect.
Anyway, I hope the Deputy goes to another department and uses this as a learning step. We are human, and make mistakes. People need to realize we are not robots. I know the politics all to well. I have seen them at work many times.
Damn that is a short skirt.. *squints* :D
Should not have gotten fired over this. Looks like relatively harmless fun.
Do what I did...errr thought about doing. Copy and paste then open with Photo editing software and use the Maginfy button. Yep, that is a short skirt...and a nice bikini wax tooo!
Dude, the chick is hot. Possibly got fired because the AR is not on The List. ;) Nagin is a tool, and I wouldn't be surprised if he had his finger on the trigger.
Getting fired was a little excessive,but she is nice!
SWATcop556
09-02-09, 23:10
Thats my point. Thats how I would of handled it. Out of town Deputys hitting it off with a local hottie... wonder if thats what pissed the off duty off? There is no where in the report that says any civilians complained, or even called in on them. There has to be more to this.
Also the Captain was legit. According to their rank structure the Capt over operations if over the LT over patrol, communications, ect.
Anyway, I hope the Deputy goes to another department and uses this as a learning step. We are human, and make mistakes. People need to realize we are not robots. I know the politics all to well. I have seen them at work many times.
Good points. The only problem is that it was not their actua Captain on the phone. They tried to pull one over and pass off a buddy as a supervisor.
Do I personally agree that he should have been fired for this one incident, no. But I don't know what the guys file looks like. He may have been a huge liability to the department on other occassions and this was what they used to boot him.
it does occasionally happen that "rival" agencies will **** with each other at any opportunity. locally, over in washington county, WASHCO and Beaverton PD have a damn blood feud or something. they give each other traffic tickets, refuse to back each other up, get in pissing matches over jurisdiction, etc.
this is probably the same.
Just a note to all...
You can debate the issue respectfully, but do not stray into making baseless accusations… Keep it civil…
B
This whole deal makes me sick to my stomach. A off duty Police Officer called and reported the Deputies. WTF?
Round Rock PD responds and calls a freakin Investigator out. What the hell is wrong with this picture? What law was broken?
The seize a digital camera from another agency? Jeeeez
If thats how Fellow LEO's are treated there, then its a very sad day for our profession. All of the complaintaints were police officers. It is a shame that any one of the idiots didn't walk over there and ask them to use better judgement. I can't believe that those asshats did that to their brothers. That very stupid decision will come back and bite them one day. I doubt many of their co-workers will ever trust them again.
This is a very sad day in LE. We are suppose to take care of each other, not do this stupid chit.
I understand the need to protect your own. Lord knows I would appreciate a call from the local LEO if one of my Joes stepped on his junk. Law Enforcement is in a similiar situation like the military. You have to be able to trust the LEO from the agency to your left and right. When things go south for law enforcement there is a very good chance that there will be multiple agencies on the scene. These LEOs have to know that their brother or sister officer has their back. It is very hard to build that trust when one unit feels betrayed by another. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that now there is an undercurrent of hate and discontent between these two agencies. There is a fine line between taking care of your brother and doing the right thing. The officer that flagged down the patrolman should have had the personal courage to approach those men and tell them that they were f*cking up and to police themselves up in public view.
First of all i don't cover shit up. I have honor, and I have gave 12 years of good creditable service. Where do you get off asking me what I "cover" up? Because I disagree with what was done? Your reaching low, and I personally could give a rats ass why you think civilians should be "weary" of us.
Apparantly the phrase "cover up" is a point of contention. I quote from your first post:
This is a very sad day in LE. We are suppose to take care of each other, not do this stupid chit.
So, the illegal actions of the officers (drinking and loaded weapons,etc.) and their attempts to fool the investigator (by lying about who was on the phone - notice I did not say "cover up" :) ) are what the problem here.
In response, you would "take care of each other" and name anyone who had the sense to call in these infractions (in this case an off duty officer of another dept.) as someone who is "doing stupid chit".
I am at a loss for words here. What is a person supposed to make of such a response? I don't think it is normal for LEO's to selectively enforce the laws and to selectively apply their duty - surely that is not what you are arguing but then if not what is it you are arguing?
IYou have to be able to trust the LEO from the agency to your left and right. When things go south for law enforcement there is a very good chance that there will be multiple agencies on the scene.
Would you trust these clowns, who drove a marked car to a skanky watering hole, drank "3-5 beers" (allegedly), handed a loaded, issued rifle to a waitress, then had somebody pose as their supervisor to try to get out of it?
I wouldn't trust somebody like that to come feed my dog while I was out of town, let alone trust them with my life. I understand letting things like minor traffic violations slide, but this is unreal.
it does occasionally happen that "rival" agencies will **** with each other at any opportunity. locally, over in washington county, WASHCO and Beaverton PD have a damn blood feud or something. they give each other traffic tickets, refuse to back each other up, get in pissing matches over jurisdiction, etc.
this is probably the same.
Probably not. Midland is about 4 or 5 hours from Round Rock.
There isn't a law about handing a loaded gun to someone in public in Texas. I would be willing to bet there are lots of department policies about it though.
There isn't a law about handing a loaded gun to someone in public in Texas. I would be willing to bet there are lots of department policies about it though.
Is there a law about drinking and loaded weapons?
I would assume there is a law about misleading (lying) to an investigator also (in this case trying to fool the investigator their captain being on the phone). Is this not true?
"This is a very sad day in LE. We are suppose to take care of each other, not do this stupid chit."
Another problem with proposing such a tactic of "selective enforcement" is that we are a nation of laws, not of men. The "Us vs. Them" philosophy (in this case LE vs. civilians) is a form of "nation of men". It is one group sticking together for and advantage against another, and the twisting of the law for an advantage. Of course, the group doing this always feals justified in that they are certain the other group have and will do the same when the tables are turned. The law at this point is simply a tool to be used for the higher purpose of group advantage.
As a civilian, I have noticed this attitude quite a bit in many LEO. I am not a LEO, but as a competative Jiu-Jitsu player I know quite a few and have counted many as friends. While it is heartening to see LEO's rejecting it on this thread, I know that it is an all too common attitude and (worse) action...
RogerinTPA
09-03-09, 15:36
There isn't a law about handing a loaded gun to someone in public in Texas. I would be willing to bet there are lots of department policies about it though.
This seems more logical, and having consumed alcoholic beverages prior to the incident, then lying about it. It's more likely a "lack of confidence" issue with the Chief and the appearance of impropriety.
SWATcop556
09-03-09, 15:42
Displaying a firearm in public where it disturbs the peace of others (off-duty officer or not) is considered Disorderly Conduct here in Texas. Class C Misdemeanor.
Is there a law about drinking and loaded weapons?
No, but I'm sure there are department policies about it. Our policy says we aren't supposed to carry if we're drinking.
I would assume there is a law about misleading (lying) to an investigator also
Only in a criminal investigation which this was not.
I'm absolutely not condoning what they did and I don't know what the rest of the story is but they do not appear to have broken any criminal laws. They were probably fixin to break the one about driving while intoxicated but they hadn't done it yet and maybe they had a designated driver or something........ maybe.
Displaying a firearm in public where it disturbs the peace of others (off-duty officer or not) is considered Disorderly Conduct here in Texas. Class C Misdemeanor.
Okay, I wan't thinking about that one but it's my understanding that peace officers can't be the ones who are offended or disturbed by the activity. I guess if it was in public view then they were reckless about who might have been disturbed by the behavior so it could fit the elements. Still, I don't think most of the residents of Williamson County are too disturbed by seeing a rifle, especially right next to a marked car.
Still not defending them. Still don't know all the facts and history involved.
RogerinTPA
09-03-09, 15:58
Displaying a firearm in public where it disturbs the peace of others (off-duty officer or not) is considered Disorderly Conduct here in Texas. Class C Misdemeanor.
But was the peace actually disturbed?
Or was this a BS call by the local LEO, jealous that out of town LEOs, were hitting on a favorite waitress???
Not saying that what they did was an end of world event, but this could have been handled differently and more tactfully, if the local LEO wasn't trying to stir the shit pot.
But was the peace actually disturbed?
IMO it's not even much of a question. 3,4,or 5 beers and loaded weapon being used as a prop in a picture at a drinking establishment - of course. As someone pointed out up stream if these guys had been civilians fresh from their carbine class a reaction from law enforcement would have been a given. If they had been CCW carries in my state their permit would be yanked with no chance of ever getting it back (NM).
Again, I think firing the man outright is extreme but serious consequences, of course...
C'mon, anytime you take pictures that can get you in trouble the first rule is to KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF
Sure, the punishment is harsh, but the guy brought it on himself by trying to impress some waitress.
IMO it's not even much of a question. 3,4,or 5 beers and loaded weapon being used as a prop in a picture at a drinking establishment - of course. As someone pointed out up stream if these guys had been civilians fresh from their carbine class a reaction from law enforcement would have been a given. If they had been CCW carries in my state their permit would be yanked with no chance of ever getting it back (NM).
Again, I think firing the man outright is extreme but serious consequences, of course...
bleh.. could you over-dramatize it any more?
i dont know what things are like there in new mexico.. but up here in anti-gun, liberazi oregon, there's absolutely no laws against handling, carrying or shooting firearms while shit-faced trashed drunk, and the only thing that would make me hesitate to hand some hot chick the carbine i keep in my truck, in public, and snap a picture, would be the wrath of my wife.
i guaran****intee you there would be nobody going to jail and nobody losing their CCW for life- and, i'm willing to bet money i could do the same damn thing in YOUR state and not get arrested, cited, or lose my CCW. you have a law against carrying a concealed handgun while intoxicated, but i haven't seen anything that prohibits a person from handling a firearm after consuming 3 beers.
make your case, but leave out the hype.
i guaran****intee you there would be nobody going to jail and nobody losing their CCW for life- and, i'm willing to bet money i could do the same damn thing in YOUR state and not get arrested, cited, or lose my CCW. you have a law against carrying a concealed handgun while intoxicated, but i haven't seen anything that prohibits a person from handling a firearm after consuming 3 beers.
make your case, but leave out the hype.
No hype there. I have no doubt that a judge would and/or NM DPS would revoke your CCW if you were involved in just such an incident. Now, if you did not have and/or care about your CCW then I admit I don't know what would be the finding, though a "disturbing the peace" misdemeanor such as in Texas would not surprise me in the least. NM by and large has good firearm laws, such as castle doctrine (including car), open carry that is protected by state constitution (and thus counties and municipalities can not override it), etc.
SWATcop556
09-03-09, 19:26
Okay, I wan't thinking about that one but it's my understanding that peace officers can't be the ones who are offended or disturbed by the activity. I guess if it was in public view then they were reckless about who might have been disturbed by the behavior so it could fit the elements. Still, I don't think most of the residents of Williamson County are too disturbed by seeing a rifle, especially right next to a marked car.
Still not defending them. Still don't know all the facts and history involved.
You are correct the LEO's can not, under the DOC law, be the ones who are offended while acting as a peace officer, not as a citizen who is not working in an official capacity. Me being LEO does not take away my right to not be offended no matter what, just means that while on duty I can't be the offended party and complainant.
It also says in the Penal code "any actions or speech which could offend." If your actions or words in a public place would cause a reasonable person to be offended or disturbed then you have committed Disorderly Conduct. I don't have to have a complainant tell me they were offended, just the possibility that someone was.
Drinking, loaded firearms, marked units driven by drinking officers, public parking lot. I bet there was more than just the compaining off duty officer who were unimpressed or concerned but didn't call.
SWATcop556
09-03-09, 19:39
But was the peace actually disturbed?
Or was this a BS call by the local LEO, jealous that out of town LEOs, were hitting on a favorite waitress???
Not saying that what they did was an end of world event, but this could have been handled differently and more tactfully, if the local LEO wasn't trying to stir the shit pot.
How would you have handled the situation? There you are eating when you see 5 off-duty officers drinking. They then leave the establishment and go to a marked unit and retrieve a loaded rifle and hand it over to Bambi. I don't see anyone, LEO or not, who would approach unknown officers as a civilian or off duty and try to correct their behavior. Or do you just ignore it until the ND goes off?
If the off duty was a local and people know he is LEO then for all we know citizens brought it to his attention and he handled it how he saw fit.
I don't see how blame can fall at the feet of an officer who was concerned for what was obviously jackass frathouse behavior. I would be willing to bet the termination had little to do with the photo-op and more to do with the combination of alcohol, guns, and marked units.
I believe this was just a case of modern day natural selection. I have to agree with swatcop1911.
Brady, Giglio, Henthorn, Jencks and a couple more names/cases I can't remember right now, comes down to lying professionally and you are done professionally. EVERYTHING in your personnel folder is open for the defense to see at trial. If your career is a train wreck and you can't testify in court because your credibility is impeachable then you are WORTHLESS to your department. Don't you think these guys would have had a credibility issue after this "boys will be boys", drinking at a bar with automatic weapons and a marked units incident? This doesn't even cover all of the departmental regulations that they probably trashed. I can see a chief not wanting to even bother will this posse after this incident and he would be absolutely right.
SwatDawg15
09-03-09, 20:57
The public tends to tell of the police if they feel they are wrong in what they are doing. So I'm looking at this being a very popular place, with allot of people there, and NO ONE, but one off-duty officer reports this? I see complaints come in on officers because they didn't speak to someone, or didn't wave, ect.. So there is no way I believe that they were making that big of a disturbance, and no one call.
Also, there was only one officer fired. If they would have called another Deputy and that Deputy acted as a Captain, there would be at least two more fired. The officer that called the Capt. would have been fired no doubt if he faked that. I'm betting they did call the Capt., and he is probably older, and asleep when the call came in. That would have been an automatic termination if they pulled that crap.
Two of the Deputies were not drinking. There was two patrol cars, and they drove them home. Is it so unreasonable to believe that it was their intention to do that anyway? I mean why would those two guys not drink, if the ones who were drinking were going to drive?
That police report was very leading, and seems as though there was conflict there. I'm sure the RRPD guys are good guys, but I smell a pissing contest in the wind. I have seen this before between agency's over some stupid stuff. The Deputies could have smarted off to the off duty? Or messed with the wrong girl? Or maybe it was innocent on the off duty's part?
Regardless there is more to this, and when/if it comes out, I feel sure things will make more sense.
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