View Full Version : Winchester Homeland Security Ammo Contract
Winchester Ammunition
8/21/2009
Winchester® Ammunition was recently awarded a contract by the Immigration, Customs and Enforcement (ICE) division of the Department of Homeland Security to supply a maximum of 200 million, 40 cal. rounds over the next five years.
“Winchester has a proud tradition of providing high quality ammunition to our nation’s law enforcement agencies,” said Dick Hammett, president, Winchester Ammunition. “No matter if they’re protecting our block, our city or our borders, each special agent is an invaluable resource and we are committed to giving them the best products available.”
The load selected for this contract is a 135-grain, hollow point designed for the office of Field Operations of Customs and Border Protection. It will fall under the Winchester® Ranger® line of products.
For more information about Winchester Ammunition and its complete line of products visit www.winchester.com.
Dr Roberts do you have any information on this new load, and why they decided to go with such a light bullet?
Terminal Effect
08-26-09, 17:12
Hey bernieb90 (Steve?)
welcome back... get my PMs. Interesting read here.
-Dave
"Dr Roberts do you have any information on this new load, and why they decided to go with such a light bullet?"
I would hope ICE adopted it because it was the load that best met their agency's performance requirements as developed based on analysis of past shooting incidents and potential future lethal force engagement scenarios.
Not sure this ammo is for ICE. ICE NFTTU procures all ammunition and weapons for the Department of Homeland Security. This article mentions that the bullet was designed for Customs and Border Protection, Office of Field Operations. These are the blue uniformed people at the airport and land and sea ports-of-entry. NOT ICE, and NOT the Border Patrol.
Not sure this ammo is for ICE. ICE NFTTU procures all ammunition and weapons for the Department of Homeland Security. This article mentions that the bullet was designed for Customs and Border Protection, Office of Field Operations. These are the blue uniformed people at the airport and land and sea ports-of-entry. NOT ICE, and NOT the Border Patrol.
This may be the answer to my question. Port police operate in densely populated areas. This may have dictated the light bullet design to reduce the risk of overpenetration, and risk to innocent bystanders. Border Patrol tend to operate in far more sparsely populated areas, and may need to fire into vehicles, thus they are probably far better served with a heavier bonded bullet.
Hey bernieb90 (Steve?)
welcome back... get my PMs. Interesting read here.
-Dave
PM sent
DHS is currently using 155gr. .40S&W loaded to the old INS specification. Which if my memory is correct was in the 1240fps range. The Remington load was pretty hot. During reduced light shooting it really illuminates the range and the load was brutal on Beretta frames. We would see frame failures (cracking) after 4,000 rounds. I have had .45 shooters stop shooting on a private indoor range to see what I was shooting; these 155's through a HK P2000SK, loud and illuminating. The 155 has been an effective man stopper in BP shootings, I like it and carry it as a duty load and in my POW. I hope whatever they pick to replace it is as effective.
About 8-9 years ago one of the gun mags did an article about the INS NFTTU development/selection of the current 155gr. load. If anyone has a copy or can point me to an online version, I'd appreciate it.
DHS is currently using 155gr. .40S&W loaded to the old INS specification. Which if my memory is correct was in the 1240fps range. The Remington load was pretty hot. During reduced light shooting it really illuminates the range and the load was brutal on Beretta frames. We would see frame failures (cracking) after 4,000 rounds. I have had .45 shooters stop shooting on a private indoor range to see what I was shooting; these 155's through a HK P2000SK, loud and illuminating. The 155 has been an effective man stopper in BP shootings, I like it and carry it as a duty load and in my POW. I hope whatever they pick to replace it is as effective.
About 8-9 years ago one of the gun mags did an article about the INS NFTTU development/selection of the current 155gr. load. If anyone has a copy or can point me to an online version, I'd appreciate it.
I can verify that Border Patrol issues it. A buddy just graduated their academy, and 1500 rounds of the 155 grainers really wore in his P2000. Still works every time, though.
About 8-9 years ago one of the gun mags did an article about the INS NFTTU development/selection of the current 155gr. load. If anyone has a copy or can point me to an online version, I'd appreciate it.
I do believe I still have that. If I do I'll try to get you a copy. I also had an article about the history of BP pistols.
cathellsk,
You Sir, would be my hero if can come up with those!
Thank you,
Ken
I was rather surprised to read that they chose a 135gr load, a load that Winchester did not previously make.
A 135gr load was part of the original ICE/DHS specification and testing protocol for new pistols in '04. At the time, its intended use was in short-barreled guns (P239 & P2000SK).
New ammo, expired pistol contract, ..............................new gun in the future?
cathellsk,
You Sir, would be my hero if can come up with those!
Thank you,
Ken
Found 'em. Both from Guns & Tactics for Law Enforcement and both written by Cpl. Ed Sanow. From Apr.'00 - Protecting American Borders (How the US Border Patrol came to select the .40S&W cartridge as its service caliber) and from July'00 - "Magic Bullets" For Law Enforcement? (How the INS's National Firearms Unit established a protocol for selecting a duty load for the US Border Patrol).
PM me an address and you can have them. I've torn them out of the original magazine years ago but all the pages are present and in good shape.
IIRC DHS contracted for about 25 million rounds of 135g HST for use in subcompact guns about 5 yrs ago. Nominal was 1220 fps from a 4 inch bbl, about 1185 from P239/P2000SK IIRC. Did about 9 inches in bare gel.
Info on other DHS 9/40/357 ammo from about June 04 here:
http://www.govexec.com/features/0604-15/0604-15s1s1.htm
That will be a nice change... My understanding is that there is a few Authorized rounds that each port can purchase under contract. The last I saw, the issued round for Customs & Border Protection, which includes the Border Patrol, is the FEDERAL Hollow Point, 155gr. - I'll double check on the exact round though.
Ports don't "buy" ammo. They order it from NFTTU.
Ports don't "buy" ammo. They order it from NFTTU.
Good call, bad choice of words... I should have said procure it...lol
The Winchester Ranger Ammo I believe was still on the list prior to this contract. At least that is what was explained to me by an instructor of the CBP Firearms Div.
Winchester says the new load (Q4368) is a 135g conventional JHP at 1200 fps. IOW, similar to the 135g HST they used before that was intended for use in subcompact guns.
Rampant Colt
12-26-09, 23:50
I'm curious about the terminal effects that this 135gr bullet has in actual BP shootings as compared to the ballistics gel results.
... So they're changing to a milder load in an effort to decrease pistol wear even though they're allegedly having "good results" with the 155gr JHP ?? W-T-F, over
:confused:
This ammo was not bought for the Border Patrol (green uniforms) but for Office of Field Operations (blue uniforms).
I am a current CBP Officer/Firearms Instructor and Armorer. When I started in 2006 we were shooting the Federal 155gr. load, 4 months later at my port we strted shooting Federal 135gr. load, the rumor reason were various.
We have both in 135gr. loads in our inventory. The Border Patrol officially announced on 12/16/09 they are switching to an 180gr load, not sure which manufactuer, but DHS/CBP buys from all of them.
The BP guys in my armorer class were happy and I am sure us blue suiters will start seeing it come into our inventory also, I personally do not get wrapped around the axle about bullet weight, it ranks right up there with arguing about calibers...just shoot the threat until it is no longer a threat!
The Border Patrol officially announced on 12/16/09 they are switching to an 180gr load, not sure which manufactuer, but DHS/CBP buys from all of them.
Federal.
all the ICE guys i deal with are just starting to use Fed. 180gr. hst brass cased. the told me they are phasing out the 155 gr. because it is beating the sigs up.
The 155gr load, after destroying plenty of Berettas pre-'05, has been tearing up both SIGs and HKs for the past five years.
The 155gr load, after destroying plenty of Berettas pre-'05, has been tearing up both SIGs and HKs for the past five years.
just shot 400 rds. of it last week out of my g23, its a little on the warn side.
just shot 400 rds. of it last week out of my g23, its a little on the warn side.
Worlds. Best. Freudian slip.
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