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View Full Version : Bill would give president emergency conntrol of entire internet...



jwinch2
08-30-09, 08:51
I didn't see this posted yet if there is already a thread mods can feel free to delete or merge as needed...


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html




August 28, 2009 12:34 AM PDT

Bill would give president emergency control of Internet
by Declan McCullagh

Internet companies and civil liberties groups were alarmed this spring when a U.S. Senate bill proposed handing the White House the power to disconnect private-sector computers from the Internet.

They're not much happier about a revised version that aides to Sen. Jay Rockefeller, a West Virginia Democrat, have spent months drafting behind closed doors. CNET News has obtained a copy of the 55-page draft of S.773 (excerpt), which still appears to permit the president to seize temporary control of private-sector networks during a so-called cybersecurity emergency.

The new version would allow the president to "declare a cybersecurity emergency" relating to "non-governmental" computer networks and do what's necessary to respond to the threat. Other sections of the proposal include a federal certification program for "cybersecurity professionals," and a requirement that certain computer systems and networks in the private sector be managed by people who have been awarded that license.

"I think the redraft, while improved, remains troubling due to its vagueness," said Larry Clinton, president of the Internet Security Alliance, which counts representatives of Verizon, Verisign, Nortel, and Carnegie Mellon University on its board. "It is unclear what authority Sen. Rockefeller thinks is necessary over the private sector. Unless this is clarified, we cannot properly analyze, let alone support the bill."

Representatives of other large Internet and telecommunications companies expressed concerns about the bill in a teleconference with Rockefeller's aides this week, but were not immediately available for interviews on Thursday.

A spokesman for Rockefeller also declined to comment on the record Thursday, saying that many people were unavailable because of the summer recess. A Senate source familiar with the bill compared the president's power to take control of portions of the Internet to what President Bush did when grounding all aircraft on Sept. 11, 2001. The source said that one primary concern was the electrical grid, and what would happen if it were attacked from a broadband connection.

When Rockefeller, the chairman of the Senate Commerce committee, and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) introduced the original bill in April, they claimed it was vital to protect national cybersecurity. "We must protect our critical infrastructure at all costs--from our water to our electricity, to banking, traffic lights and electronic health records," Rockefeller said.

The Rockefeller proposal plays out against a broader concern in Washington, D.C., about the government's role in cybersecurity. In May, President Obama acknowledged that the government is "not as prepared" as it should be to respond to disruptions and announced that a new cybersecurity coordinator position would be created inside the White House staff. Three months later, that post remains empty, one top cybersecurity aide has quit, and some wags have begun to wonder why a government that receives failing marks on cybersecurity should be trusted to instruct the private sector what to do.

Rockefeller's revised legislation seeks to reshuffle the way the federal government addresses the topic. It requires a "cybersecurity workforce plan" from every federal agency, a "dashboard" pilot project, measurements of hiring effectiveness, and the implementation of a "comprehensive national cybersecurity strategy" in six months--even though its mandatory legal review will take a year to complete.

The privacy implications of sweeping changes implemented before the legal review is finished worry Lee Tien, a senior staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation in San Francisco. "As soon as you're saying that the federal government is going to be exercising this kind of power over private networks, it's going to be a really big issue," he says.

Probably the most controversial language begins in Section 201, which permits the president to "direct the national response to the cyber threat" if necessary for "the national defense and security." The White House is supposed to engage in "periodic mapping" of private networks deemed to be critical, and those companies "shall share" requested information with the federal government. ("Cyber" is defined as anything having to do with the Internet, telecommunications, computers, or computer networks.)

"The language has changed but it doesn't contain any real additional limits," EFF's Tien says. "It simply switches the more direct and obvious language they had originally to the more ambiguous (version)...The designation of what is a critical infrastructure system or network as far as I can tell has no specific process. There's no provision for any administrative process or review. That's where the problems seem to start. And then you have the amorphous powers that go along with it."

Translation: If your company is deemed "critical," a new set of regulations kick in involving who you can hire, what information you must disclose, and when the government would exercise control over your computers or network.

The Internet Security Alliance's Clinton adds that his group is "supportive of increased federal involvement to enhance cyber security, but we believe that the wrong approach, as embodied in this bill as introduced, will be counterproductive both from an national economic and national secuity perspective."

Update at 3:14 p.m. PDT: I just talked to Jena Longo, deputy communications director for the Senate Commerce committee, on the phone. She sent me e-mail with this statement:
The president of the United States has always had the constitutional authority, and duty, to protect the American people and direct the national response to any emergency that threatens the security and safety of the United States. The Rockefeller-Snowe Cybersecurity bill makes it clear that the president's authority includes securing our national cyber infrastructure from attack. The section of the bill that addresses this issue, applies specifically to the national response to a severe attack or natural disaster. This particular legislative language is based on longstanding statutory authorities for wartime use of communications networks. To be very clear, the Rockefeller-Snowe bill will not empower a "government shutdown or takeover of the Internet" and any suggestion otherwise is misleading and false. The purpose of this language is to clarify how the president directs the public-private response to a crisis, secure our economy and safeguard our financial networks, protect the American people, their privacy and civil liberties, and coordinate the government's response.
Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for an on-the-record answer to these four questions that I asked her colleague on Wednesday. I'll let you know if and when I get a response.

Declan McCullagh is a contributor to CNET News and a correspondent for CBSNews.com who has covered the intersection of politics and technology for over a decade. Declan writes a regular feature called Taking Liberties, focused on individual and economic rights; you can bookmark his CBS News Taking Liberties site, or subscribe to the RSS feed. You can e-mail Declan at declan@cbsnews.com.

Preferred User
08-30-09, 20:26
Technically not feasible.

The Internet was designed to be self healing. Just as it is incredibly difficult to block SPAM and malware it would be at least as difficult to "shut off" the Internet.

Unfortunately even having a Cyber Czar will not make turning off the Internet a reality.

Honu
08-31-09, 03:20
I think his point wont be to shut down the internet as a whole but will be easy for him to shut down servers here hosting stuff he does not see fit !!!!

its a control thing as I see it

so I agree no way he can shut down the internet but he can shut down a ton of servers holding info and DNS info etc.. which will have massive results on the net as a whole and since he can then control how the info and how fast it gets out and to who !!!
and if he stops all your communications on the net ! what then ? besides knowing how china feels !!!

M4arc
08-31-09, 06:28
Just another form of control by a control happy bunch on capital hill.

Preferred User
08-31-09, 12:58
so I agree no way he can shut down the internet but he can shut down a ton of servers holding info and DNS info etc.. which will have massive results on the net as a whole and since he can then control how the info and how fast it gets out and to who !!!

I agree it is a total control/power grab thing. However the Internet (that Al Gore invented - chuckle, snicker, belly laugh) was a genius design by the military. It was distributed computing before there was such a thing.

Take the Root Servers for example. They are the controllers of DNS and all other DNS servers (like the ones at your ISP) look to the Root Servers if they cannot resolve names to IP addresses. However even if the govt. somehow managed to block access to the US based Root Servers, there are many that are based outside the US. It might slow access, but would be nearly impossible to stop. Also they would have to block access to all subordinate DNS servers (that every ISP, University, and large company maintains).

Let's say Big Brother wanted to block Google. Again a very distributed architecture that would take a great deal of time and effort to block. But again it is all about the power grab. I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

As for licensing or certifying cybersecurity professionals. We already have that and the government already recognizes us and requires us to hold certain certifications to be employed by the government and requires many defense contractors to have us on staff.

Again this just shows how out of touch Congress is.

Mo_Zam_Beek
08-31-09, 13:22
PU - you should read the proposed bill - the government will write the standard and put all the internal control standards in place. You are thinking of things in terms of how they are, not how they want them to be.

Secondly, I just got done reading The Secret Sentry (http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Sentry-History-National-Security/dp/1596915153) and it made it pretty clear - anything related to communications via an incumbent service provider in the US is, or can be monitored, interrupted, rerouted, or curtailed b/c incumbents are in bed with the Government and have been since the '40s.

In short, they may not have legal footing or a master switch now (but that is the design of the proposed legislation); however the do have collusion with industry and substantial ability now.


Good luck

Preferred User
08-31-09, 14:39
PU - you should read the proposed bill - the government will write the standard and put all the internal control standards in place. You are thinking of things in terms of how they are, not how they want them to be.I did read it. It is based on how things were 20 years ago. The reality of today is far different. Back when only data traversed the Internet it might have been slightly more possible. Now, I have great difficulty believing it can work technically.


Secondly, I just got done reading The Secret Sentry (http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Sentry-History-National-Security/dp/1596915153) and it made it pretty clear - anything related to communications via an incumbent service provider in the US is, or can be monitored, interrupted, rerouted, or curtailed b/c incumbents are in bed with the Government and have been since the '40s.Anything can be monitored and is. However information overload and other challenges make this a bigger problem for the watchers than the watched.


The Secret Sentry: The Untold History of the National Security AgencyIn short, they may not have legal footing or a master switch now (but that is the design of the proposed legislation); however the do have collusion with industry and substantial ability now.The brouhaha over ATT and Verizon allowing NSA and others to access records clearly shows the ability to watch. However the telecommunications industry has moved away from the master switch and moves further away every day.

BiggLee71
08-31-09, 14:46
seeing as the internet is truly the last bastion of free speech its only natural that it would be a target for oppression.

Mo_Zam_Beek
08-31-09, 15:07
I did read it. It is based on how things were 20 years ago. The reality of today is far different. Back when only data traversed the Internet it might have been slightly more possible. Now, I have great difficulty believing it can work technically.

Anything can be monitored and is. However information overload and other challenges make this a bigger problem for the watchers than the watched.

The brouhaha over ATT and Verizon allowing NSA and others to access records clearly shows the ability to watch. However the telecommunications industry has moved away from the master switch and moves further away every day.


Since you seem to know more than I do about the technical side of this - can you break this down crayola style to tell me why this would not be possible given the level of control proposed by SB 773 and SB 778? For a non tech person like me, it reads like they will have that level of control. Being able to read more about it and make an informed decision would be better.

The reasoning laid out in the bill does make some limited sense for the need.

TIA

Good luck

TIA

Preferred User
08-31-09, 22:19
I am not sure there is a Crayola version of explaining this, but I will give some examples.

Let's say this is actually about protecting a business. Let's use a defense contractor as an example. Most defense contractors are pretty large which means there are multiple locations. If the contractor is based in MD, has a development office in VA, manufacturing in TN, IN, TX and CA each of those locations has as least one connection to the Internet, at least one connection to the home office and probably connections to at least some of the other plants or facilities. And that is just for data.

If the home office has a data connection from ATT and one or two other providers, TN uses one of the Baby Bells, IN and TX use Verizon plus some local ISP and California uses SBC and US West; what one switch shuts down access to the Internet? And the Internet is a pretty obsolete term since more than just web sites are connected by the Internet. In reality data, voice and many other protocols traverse what was called the Internet.

And what about telecommuting workers, sales and tech people in the field, workers connecting via cellular tethering, Wi-Fi in a coffee shop, etc.? What one switch could turn them all off?

Let's take another example, a website. While it might be fairly straightforward to go to a web hosting company in the US and shut down a server what about a site hosted overseas? A great example of this is the many off-shore gambling sites. One of the few ways the government has even put a dent in their business model is via the credit card companies. (But that has just bred a whole new payment industry.)

And there are plenty more examples of why turning off the Internet is not technically feasible. I can assure you as one of the a fore mentioned cybersecurity professionals, defending our nations infrastructure is a huge challenge, however I can also say that many parts of our government do not get it.

Mo_Zam_Beek
08-31-09, 23:23
OK - I get that part of it.

I also gather from the book that there is a relationship that exists far beyond what the public has knowledge of between the government and the incumbents now. So while I will grant you that based on public knowledge, absent legal authority - there is no master switch.

However, what this is setting up is that legal authority. So if the 'master switch' ultimately is in the hands of the provider all that is missing is the legal authority. Secondly, I am confused - part of what makes the net difficult to control is protocol aspect and this bill will streamline and uniform it. So what am I missing?

TIA

Good luck

Preferred User
09-01-09, 00:33
There are relationships far beyond what the public understands in many industries. This is nothing new. It is how government abuses its power that is the concern.

Again legal authority is what is being abused or more correctly has the possibility of being abused by those without enough technical saavy to turn on a blender.

Trying to regulate protocol aspect (say everything that runs on IP) is just too broad an idea and nearly impossible to regulate. If the Internet was self contained in the US, utilized programs and protocols only written in the US by US companies and programmers, I would give a maybe. However that is not the case.

This is not Communist China (at least not yet) where telecommunications is controlled by the government and there is literally only one connection to the Internet that can be controlled and regulated.

Sometimes I think my job would be far easier if it was, but it is not and I am glad that there is a wild and wooly Internet.

Honu
09-01-09, 03:42
I dont see it as one switch ? its not that of course but its if they get something in place to call the major tier 1 providers and have them shut or flip their own switches in a sense

now the major problem is the info that flows throughout the world runs through are tier 1 also so doing this would do major disruption to other countries from banking transactions to so many things its insane to think even

talk about the world then hating our guts big time !!!!!!
I cant see this ever happening or getting anywhere ? but crazy things do happen
so its possible in a sense but with so much devastation to the worlds connections though


since most tier 1 give bandwidth to tier 2
most ISP are tier 2
so they have tier 1 connections with a few providers ! by nature most tier 1 are not redundant like tier 2 they have a single peer or a few but not a lot !
so shut down the tier 1 so the tier 2 dont have info things go down hard and fast for many
it wont even come close to killing the internet but it will do major disruption to us in the US getting access to internet and other communications
the thing is the way its set up its not really setup to handle a gov telling the tier 1 providers to shut down !

so shut down access to the top tier 1 and you have a mess

again I cant see this happening ? but its like anything cut the few major supply lines and everything else gets hurt big time and really just creates a mess and gets the world pissed at us



here is my worst analogy :)
it would be hard to shut down every plane in the sky but if you shut down the airports and each of the major airlines domicile you would wreak such havoc on the airlines and travel industry
while you wont shut down every airplane in the sky shutting down the majors and the major airports would wreak such havoc
while some small planes might fly and some small airports will let traffic out its nothing in comparison of shutting down a few major airlines and airports

again bad analogy maybe but might work :)

Preferred User
09-01-09, 07:03
If you shut down a Tier 1 it would not just be data/Internet access. Almost all voice traffic also flows across the Internet, all point to point flows across the Internet, etc. Flipping the switch would have an impact on more than just the "Internet" as most people think of it.

EDIT

Honu is quite right that it would be crippling, but on a much broader scale than just denying access to some web sites.

Mo_Zam_Beek
09-01-09, 15:01
Clarification: when you all are talk about tier 1 and tier 2 you're talking about ILECs and CLECs - incumbent providers that own the regional / continental / trans global back bone (QWEST) and leased line providers (anyone else) - correct?

There are relationships far beyond what the public understands in many industries. This is nothing new. It is how government abuses its power that is the concern.

It may not be new but it is less understood and far more invasive than most any other industry. This particular incestuous relationship has and continues to erode personal privacy more than any other out there. Giving it naked legal authority to do so is tantamount to suspension of the constitutional protection of free speech at the discretion of the executive office.

Trying to regulate protocol aspect (say everything that runs on IP) is just too broad an idea and nearly impossible to regulate. If the Internet was self contained in the US, utilized programs and protocols only written in the US by US companies and programmers, I would give a maybe. However that is not the case.

It is clearly stated in the bill - the oversight group will work to mount the effort to make this the one standard both domestically an internationally. When you say it is nearly impossible - so was sequencing DNA, going to the moon, or the atom bomb. What if the ILECs figured out a way to reject non conforming protocol data packs from being transmitted? Wanna do business on their line or with any US based entity? Do it in the Gov approved format. (Again I don't know about the specifics of tech but I do know that if there is a will, humans have proven there is a way). By that same token, I'd bet dollars to donuts that ILECs are currently capable of individually flipping the switch on singal entities. The simple leap from there is grouping entities by type in order to shut off a bigger switch. I have no doubt that in times of "National Emergency" the net will be up and running for certain sectors. No different than the GPS system which will be down for everyone else.

Again - willing to learn but thus far you haven't said anything other than - 'based on current means it would be difficult'. Is there anything specific that you can point to which would bolster your claim that this is much ado about nothing?

Good luck

Preferred User
09-01-09, 18:08
Clarification: when you all are talk about tier 1 and tier 2 you're talking about ILECs and CLECs - incumbent providers that own the regional / continental / trans global back bone (QWEST) and leased line providers (anyone else) - correct?An ILEC is not necessarily a Tier 1 provider. A Tier 1 provider is typically described as a provider that does not buy bandwidth to transit to any other point on the Internet (using the most broad definition of Internet). ILEC and CLEC refer to local carriers. However with the convergence of carriers, and the rapid changes in the industry many of these terms are rapidly becoming obsolete.


There are relationships far beyond what the public understands in many industries. This is nothing new. It is how government abuses its power that is the concern.

It may not be new but it is less understood and far more invasive than most any other industry. This particular incestuous relationship has and continues to erode personal privacy more than any other out there. Giving it naked legal authority to do so is tantamount to suspension of the constitutional protection of free speech at the discretion of the executive office.When you say less understood do you mean by the public? Do you think the defense, healthcare or energy industries are better understood by the public? You might find this article on the erosion of privacy in the Internet era (http://harvardmagazine.com/2009/09/privacy-erosion-in-internet-era) interesting. Technology is really just an avenue to the erosion of personal privacy.

There is also plenty to read on Carnivore (DCS1000) or many of the other monitoring programs.


Trying to regulate protocol aspect (say everything that runs on IP) is just too broad an idea and nearly impossible to regulate. If the Internet was self contained in the US, utilized programs and protocols only written in the US by US companies and programmers, I would give a maybe. However that is not the case.

It is clearly stated in the bill - the oversight group will work to mount the effort to make this the one standard both domestically an internationally. When you say it is nearly impossible - so was sequencing DNA, going to the moon, or the atom bomb. What if the ILECs figured out a way to reject non conforming protocol data packs from being transmitted? Wanna do business on their line or with any US based entity? Do it in the Gov approved format. (Again I don't know about the specifics of tech but I do know that if there is a will, humans have proven there is a way). By that same token, I'd bet dollars to donuts that ILECs are currently capable of individually flipping the switch on singal entities. The simple leap from there is grouping entities by type in order to shut off a bigger switch. I have no doubt that in times of "National Emergency" the net will be up and running for certain sectors. No different than the GPS system which will be down for everyone else.Lots of things can be stated, lots of oversight groups try to come to a consensus (feel free to read up on how long IPV6 has been looking for consensus - it started in 1998 in case you are interested), but that does not mean it can happen or happen soon. Could it happen? Sure anything might happen.


Again - willing to learn but thus far you haven't said anything other than - 'based on current means it would be difficult'. Is there anything specific that you can point to which would bolster your claim that this is much ado about nothing?You asked for a Crayola explanation. When you post, "I'd bet dollars to donuts that ILECs are currently capable of individually flipping the switch on singal entities" I am not sure I can convince you that an ILEC is incapable of disconnecting a multi-homed entity without falling into a deep morass of jargon and technical descriptions.

Is the language in S.773 a concern? Of course. A lot of things the government proposes concern me. The on/off switch is a far smaller area of concern than other portions of S.773.

I leave you with this quote from the GovInfoSecurity post:
Remember, there is no on-off switch for the Internet and as important, the Internet was originally architected to remain functional in a nuclear attack. The idea was that the network of networks would continue to function in a national emergency. To redesign that architecture to give the president that on-off switch, though theoretically possible, would be costly and realistically impractical.


http://blogs.govinfosecurity.com/posts.php?postID=292

http://blog.soleranetworks.com/on-the-cybersecurity-act-of-2009/

http://www.cerias.purdue.edu/site/blog/post/cybersecurity_legislation/

Honu
09-01-09, 18:18
tier 1 to me is like qwest or L3 or GBLX or Verizon

Mo_Zam_Beek
09-01-09, 19:13
PU - thanks I will do some reading.

ETA - I really DO want to know if this is a big deal or not. The newsys spin it like it is, I just want to be able to make my own decisions.

tpd223
09-02-09, 04:41
I thought only Al Gore could turn off the internet?

Preferred User
09-02-09, 21:15
Bill giving Obama power to shut Web takes on new tone (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9137294/Bill_giving_Obama_power_to_shut_Web_takes_on_new_tone?source=CTWNLE_nlt_securityissues_2009-09-02)

Preferred User
09-02-09, 21:22
Want something to be concerned about right now?

Privacy Office approves laptop searches without suspicion at U.S. borders (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9137315/Privacy_Office_approves_laptop_searches_without_suspicion_at_U.S._borders_?taxonomyId=84&pageNumber=1)