Domestic cloned HK416 upper? [Archive]

variablebinary

09-01-09, 06:35

So what's the story here? Are they assembling 416 uppers in the USA from HK parts, and adding a domestic SS nitride treated barrel?

Someone help me out here. I need to understand because this is confusing as hell.

They are apparently here in UT. I might have to pop into their shop and see what the deal is first hand.

Titan Defense TD-415 APS Gas Piston Upper
Modular Capability
The TD-415 drops onto your existing
AR-15/M-16 lower receiver.

10.50 Inch Barrel
- 416 Stainless Barrel
- RC 70 Corrison Resistant Nitride Finish

Gas Block
- Ambidextrous sling attachments
- Stainless with nitride finish.
- Low profile front site attachment
- Single Piece Piston Rod Assembly

Free Floating Quad Rail System
- interlocking one piece
- extruded 6061 aluminum
- freefloating rail

Upper Receiver
- Flat top mil-spec raised rail with key reinforcements

Bolt Group
- one piece bolt carrier
- nickel teflon finish for low maintenance

Spring and Buffer
- Tungsten high reliability buffer
- Stainless Steel

Caliber Available:
- 5.56mm X 45 (.223)
- other calibers will soon be available

http://www.ar15titan.com/store/pc/catalog/td415upper10inch.jpg

http://www.ar15titan.com/store/pc/catalog/td415upper10inch-4.jpg

http://ar15gas.com/td415uppers.jpg

Iraq Ninja

09-01-09, 07:50

kdcgrohl

09-01-09, 08:40

Yep. Thats Todd Baileys new project.

variablebinary

09-01-09, 08:44

Here is what my Google told me...

No HK parts.

Coharie Arms will be selling a complete rifle, and they will be using the TD uppers. Lewis Aerospace will be making the lowers (a good thing).

The gas block will be cast.

More info and pics here...

http://www.hk-54.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=1557

Thanks for the link. They claim compatibility with HK416 parts and their uppers will drop onto any lower, which is the lame aspect of the MR556 IMHO

Seems like the interesting project. If it really can use HK parts, that's a hefty advantage over other piston makers.

Found these vids on youtube. Looks good

http://www.youtube.com/user/airflaka#play/all/uploads-all/1/MLiP763JNVg

http://www.youtube.com/user/airflaka#play/all/uploads-all/1/MLiP763JNVg

http://www.youtube.com/user/airflaka#play/all/uploads-all/1/MLiP763JNVg

Iraq Ninja

09-01-09, 09:11

Todd seems to have it out for RCM and POF. Not sure what kind of person he is, but he likes to mention others in a negative way in just about every post he makes.

variablebinary

09-01-09, 09:15

Todd seems to have it out for RCM and POF. Not sure what kind of person he is, but he likes to mention others in a negative way in just about every post he makes.

Who is RCM? Doesn't ring a bell

And I see Baily is part of Special Weapons, Bobcat etc etc. That's a buzzkill...

Iraq Ninja

09-01-09, 09:57

http://www.rcmgunparts.com/

variablebinary

09-01-09, 17:37

I gather no one has seen this thing in the flesh then?

Edit: Just spoke to them and they seem like a nice group of guys. Really courteous, and willing to answer questions; I kept them on the phone for 25 minutes.

They invited me to their next testing session so I can see the product first hand.

They are based in SLC, Utah.

TOrrock

09-01-09, 18:14

Before you get all warm and fuzzy with these guys, do a search on Todd Bailey......the most hated and untrustworthy man in the gun industry.

Outlander Systems

09-01-09, 19:06

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Special-Weapons-Top-Notch-Todd-R-Bailey/Guns-Ranges/Special-Weapons-Top-Notch-To-67MA4.htm

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=30243&st=0

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=90091

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/notes/sw5/pagesw5.htm

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-331263.html

http://www.tacticalunderground.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7050

Seems like a happenin' cat. :rolleyes:

K9-Bob

09-01-09, 19:47

Yep. Thats Todd Baileys new project.

oh da nohs! Todd Bailey!:p

Spooky130

09-01-09, 19:57

Before you get all warm and fuzzy with these guys, do a search on Todd Bailey......the most hated and untrustworthy man in the gun industry.

Listen to this...

variablebinary

09-01-09, 20:48

Jeez..after reading some of those comments on other forums, I think I will stay clear for now and let someone else take the plung first.

I do like the Troy/Titan Defense 416 height folding BUIS. I might look into getting a set. They would work great on my XCR

Outlander Systems

09-01-09, 20:57

This thread came at an interesting time.

Today I just showed some buddies of mine my recent firearm addition, and the topic of the 416 came up. I was informed that "Titan, something or other" was making a 416 clone, which I was unaware of.

I saw this thread before I was able to investigate further. Strange timing.

VB: You've got an XCR, why in the world would you want anything else?

;)

C45P312

09-01-09, 21:05

Hmm...sure does like to post negatively about other competitors very openly and all the time

Outlander Systems

09-01-09, 21:20

Hmm...sure does like to post negatively about other competitors very openly and all the time

I don't think he can compete with his "competitors".

;)

AllanRR

09-02-09, 02:39

Hmm...sure does like to post negatively about other competitors very openly and all the time

Yep, that's what I thought too after reading all his posts.....

rifleman2000

09-02-09, 08:13

Coharie Arms has Special Weapons old equipment. ;)

subzero

09-02-09, 08:34

Before you get all warm and fuzzy with these guys, do a search on Todd Bailey......the most hated and untrustworthy man in the gun industry.

Why is it this turd is apparently the go-to guy in the US for HK clones? Is his work good? Not so much, from what I've heard over the years. It's just that he's the only guy.

Iraq Ninja

09-02-09, 08:41

poak

09-02-09, 09:01

If he is only taking the Titan Defense upper and putting it on one of his lowers, maybe we should discuss Titan Defense now.

I assume Todd is not connected with Titan, and thus they may be producing a quality product.

Ah, so he's not directly affiliated w/ TD?

That makes me feel a lot better about the company. Being associated w/ Todd, SW, Bobcat, Cohaire, etc, would be a major deal breaker for me (not that I'm necessarily in the market for a GP gun).

variablebinary

09-02-09, 12:08

I've been gathering info on this Titan product since yesterday and it seems to be the case that Todd Baily is licensing Titan's upper technology for Coharie's carbine. Who knows for sure though.

Titan doesn't sell any complete firearms at all.

I wonder if Titan Defense is affiliated with Adam Webber of HKparts.net fame. They are damn close to each other and both dealing with HK related equipment.

armakraut

09-21-09, 06:20

Looks like the mailing addresses are 2 miles away from each other.

If Adam is running the show, I'll buy with confidence.

HPLLC

09-21-09, 06:38

That's cool except for the .065 higher top rail and the complete gun only rule.

Guys with M16's want an upper. I understand HK416's are picky and only like HK trigger groups so sell an upper and a trigger pack.

Some people don't have any use for the lower.

Cold Zero

09-21-09, 06:57

Any update on the release of the MR556 ? Thanks.

Don Robison

09-21-09, 21:38

but he likes to mention others in a negative way in just about every post he makes.

That seems to have always been his style.

Coharie Arms has Special Weapons old equipment. ;)

Unless she's sold it Coharie Arms was in Wendy Bailey's name. Same players, different name, same old crap.

I wouldn't trust anything with his name attached to it; especially a weapon I may need.

poak

10-24-09, 21:28

So I was flipping through a Shotgun News last night, and I spied Cohaire Arms' new advert for it's CA416 rifles (which I assume are in fact using TD's uppers).

It's pretty typical of what someone would expect from CA, I'd scan it in if it wasn't already so low-res... Instead, I'll describe:

It shows a graphic of a pagoda with a mushroom cloud coming out of the top, and it's displaying the text "The Most Powerful Weapon On Earth!!! And Look What We Found Inside" . What that means, I've no ****ing clue...

Anywho, it displays one of their upcoming GP rifles with the words "The First And Only No Lube No Clean Weapon Ever Developed". Ummm... right...

It also seems they've trademarked (or are at least indicating that they have) the slogan "Gas Piston Perfection".

I'm anxious to see some reviews of Titan Defense's upper, but I'll be damned if I buy one from CA.

olds442tyguy

10-24-09, 21:36

HK suing ATI was BS.

If they sued over this I would completely understand though. That said, I wouldn't feel guilty picking an upper up if they run and really are $1200 MSRP.

VA_Dinger

10-24-09, 21:47

Ah, so he's not directly affiliated w/ TD?

I was also told by Josh at Titan Defense that Todd Bailey is merely a customer of theirs and has zero connection to Titan Defense itself. No matter what Bailey may have tried to imply on the internet. I gather he has a connection to one of their sub-contractors and that's how he knew so much and spilled beans all over the internet.

Honestly, I find the TD uppers very interesting. I have a friend who got one of the 14.5" uppers to inspect/test and he spoke very highly of it. He is also very familiar with the real deal HK416. The TD uppers are being built to the 416 TDP so that means they have the information needed to build the guns to spec. If I were in the market for another gas piston AR I'd buy one over any of the alternatives. Since they are using the real deal 416 TDP they are by association more tested and proven than the others unless you take into account Internet BS, which I do not.

Like others though, I wonder how long it will take HK to sue them.

Jaeger

10-24-09, 23:21

My SIG rep showed me some literature on a rifle they will be releasing in 2010. It is the Sig 516. Apparently Sig has hired the engineer who designed the HK 416. He has refined some things and Sig is set to go into production shortly. Best part is that he said that Individual officer pricing is set to be about $1000. I think it will go public at the Shot Show.

Mjolnir

10-25-09, 10:56

I was also told by Josh at Titan Defense that Todd Bailey is merely a customer of theirs and has zero connection to Titan Defense itself. No matter what Bailey may have tried to imply on the internet. I gather he has a connection to one of their sub-contractors and that's how he knew so much and spilled beans all over the internet.

Honestly, I find the TD uppers very interesting. I have a friend who got one of the 14.5" uppers to inspect/test and he spoke very highly of it. He is also very familiar with the real deal HK416. The TD uppers are being built to the 416 TDP so that means they have the information needed to build the guns to spec. If I were in the market for another gas piston AR I'd buy one over any of the alternatives. Since they are using the real deal 416 TDP they are by association more tested and proven than the others unless you take into account Internet BS, which I do not.

Like others though, I wonder how long it will take HK to sue them.
Interesting. Thanks.

Mjolnir

10-25-09, 10:57

MC988

10-25-09, 22:16

Jaeger

10-26-09, 04:01

That's it. I think they will be offering it in .308 as well.

variablebinary

10-26-09, 04:14

I was impressed by it

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=38560&highlight=Titan+Defense

http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/TD4166.jpg

mildot

10-26-09, 07:23

What kind of BUIS can you run on this upper?
Does it have to be the HK 416 sights? or would a set of TROY's or MagPul work?

MarkG

10-26-09, 09:18

Adam Weber is connected to the project. He was with the Titan Defense rep when they visited a local shop about a month ago in Scottsdale, AZ.

Caeser25

10-26-09, 18:41

what's special about the 416 over other gas pistons?

variablebinary

10-26-09, 19:52

What kind of BUIS can you run on this upper?
Does it have to be the HK 416 sights? or would a set of TROY's or MagPul work?

You can use 416 sights, or Troy's new half height "stubby" sights. I have a set on my XCR and they are outstanding.

Titan will offer them with their own logo.

Here are pics of them on my XCR

http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/TroyXCR.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/TroyXCR1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/TroyXCR2.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/TroyXCR3.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/TroyXCR4.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/TroyXCR5.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/TroyXCR6.jpg

mildot

10-27-09, 17:01

Would the "regular" TROY sights work?
I don't see the "stubby's" on the website?

variablebinary

10-27-09, 19:33

Would the "regular" TROY sights work?
I don't see the "stubby's" on the website?

Call Troy for more info on short sights

Regular should work. You might have to bottom out the front sight to compensate for height over bore issues though

mildot

11-03-09, 06:56

Have any of these uppers been released for purchase?

mildot

12-04-09, 17:47

Any news? are these going to hit the market soon?
I see the sights are for sale on the website.

variablebinary

12-04-09, 20:19

Any news? are these going to hit the market soon?
I see the sights are for sale on the website.

Saw Titan at the gun show a couple of weeks back. Still testing. Might be awhile

Iraq Ninja

12-04-09, 20:40

I had Troys on my 416 and they worked fine.

When and if HK releases their carbine, AND if it has the normal location for the rear takedown pin, most people will probably forget about Titan and get the real deal.

armakraut

12-04-09, 21:25

+1

Waiting for the real deal too.

16'' IAR 416 :D

dtibbals

12-05-09, 21:17

I would not waste my money on a "clone". I had one of his HK94 clones and what a piece of junk! I replaced as many parts as I could with real HK parts and I still could not get it to run reliably. The factory was of no help and their customer service is shady at best. I sold it off and never looked back! He has a reputation for a reason. If I remember correctly HKpro.com won't even allow post about him or his product, lots of people have been burnt over the years. with all the good choices out there for a piston AR made by good companies there is no reason to buy his rifle. For the same price or a little less you can buy an LMT.

David

mildot

12-06-09, 10:33

I thought that Todd Bailey wasn't associated with this upper?

Don Robison

12-06-09, 11:00

I thought that Todd Bailey wasn't associated with this upper?

It's on his website as coming soon.

http://www.coharie-arms.com/ca415.html

mildot

07-29-10, 10:43

Any news on these uppers? Did this project have "legs" or is it dead in the water?

variablebinary

09-10-10, 03:22

Any news on these uppers? Did this project have "legs" or is it dead in the water?

Directly off Titan's website

TD415 Uppers are for sale, with a very limited supply. Due to a contractual settlement once our current inventory is gone the uppers will no longer be offered for sale again.

http://www.titandefense.com/order.asp

Something significant clearly happened behind the scenes, but now is your chance. You'll just have to use HK416 parts for spares

armakraut

09-10-10, 10:41

Variable, how has yours been running?

variablebinary

09-10-10, 15:15

Variable, how has yours been running?

It wasn't mine. It was just a loaner. I don't have enough rounds through one to have a sound opinion.

From my limited experiance I thought it had potential. It certainly worked. I would like to have seen it come to fruition.