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Mac5.56
09-03-09, 00:11
So the "Long Rifle" thread has a lot of interesting points made about the use of vehicles to bug out. Some of us live in urban, suburban environments where a forced evac (whether by government or situation) will be non-ideal but a possibility. I thought I would start a thread for the use of a vehicle, the use of highways, ext. What are some tactics that can be employed to insure that you get you and yours away while maintaining mobility?

I will leave it open to others. I have some thoughts but I am curious about what others have to say.

zushwa
09-03-09, 02:24
Good topic. I don't think it's limited to any particular AO or situation, the vehicle is going to be our primary form of travel.

Obviously the capabilities of the vehicle should be discussed, but I'm pretty sure most of us are going to go out and buy a dedicated vehicle. Keeping the vehicle in good working order, well fueled, and having some bare essential extras for the vehicle AND the passengers is probably a good idea.

More to follow.....

perna
09-03-09, 03:49
Best plan for a government evac is to leave as soon as you can. Mostly because the longer you wait the more broken down/out of gas vehicles you will have to deal with. In the SE we have planned evac routes, which always end up in a cluster very quickly, which is why all the major highways turn into one way routes(either north or west).

If taking non-highway routes stay as far away from major highways crossings, ends up being worse than being on the highway.

citizensoldier16
09-03-09, 06:38
I would say, logistically, that a good bug out vehicle must fulfill each of these specs:

V8 Gas or Diesel- provides ample power and torque. Ables such a vehicle to carry heavier loads and/or traverse steep terrain if necessary.

Four Wheel Drive- again, terrain dependent. If off-road driving is necessary, 4wd is a must.
Tires- All terrains at the least, if not off-road tires such as BFGoodrich A/Ts. These provide ample on-road performance while at the same time offering superior off-road and cross-country capabilities.
Passenger and Cargo Space- gotta carry your s***. Enough said.
Fuel Capacity- as large as possible. Given the rest of these suggestions, I forsee fuel being the limiting factor of any bug out vehicle. Carry as much fuel as you can, and you increase the distance you can traverse....your "legs" get longer for every additional gallon of fuel, whether that be gas or diesel, that you can carry.
Maintenance- necessary for any good vehicle. What good would it do you to have the best 4x4 on the road if it has bad spark plugs and the alternator craps out after 100 miles? Onboard tools should be carried as well. These should include basic hand tools whihc would enable any technically able individual to fix minor problems with the vehicle. Common spare parts should be available, either carried onboard or to be acquired.
Lighting- simple headlights often won't cut it. The addition of fog or driving lights greatly increases your off-road capability at night and can increase safety.

A grille guard wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Thats pretty much what I can think of off the top of my head. Given the above parameters, a vehicle such as that would be able to traverse highways with ease and have the "legs" to get you and the occupants out of harms way on a single tank of fuel; while at the same time off-road driving could be accomplished if necessary.

tpd223
09-03-09, 07:27
Were I single, and worried about something like a hurricane evac, I'd seriously think about a motorcycle. Pretty easy to cut through lanes of stopped traffic if need be. A little low on cargo space though.

ColdDeadHands
09-03-09, 07:46
I had a Jeep Wrangler & joined a local off-road club to learn how to really go off-road. This vehicle would get me thru everything but I sold it in favor of a more "civil", more powerful & lo-pro VW Touareg. The skills I acquired with the Jeep apply to every 4x4 or all-wheel drive vehicle. I am confident that the Touareg will get me home if I don't have to go thru 2 foot of water, climb 1 foot rocks or go thru 2 or 3 foot deep mud. I did all that with the jeep but settled for more luxury and power while still having mild off-road capability...if you can do it with a modern Land Rover, you can do it with a Touareg!
A jeep loves to go off-road but once you trick it out to make it more capable your on-road ride quality will suffer. I did some mild trails with the Touareg and it does well enough in all possible scenarios I can Imagine ever being in.

here's a pic of my ex jeep;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/1911-A1/Trucks/DSC_0069.jpg

BillCutting
09-03-09, 20:53
My bug out vehicle of choice? The out soon, Ford F-150 Raptor. This thing is sweet with a capital "S"! http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/chjapa/2010-Ford-F-150-SVT-Raptor-Jumping-.jpg


http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081104/FREE/811049997

http://www.dieselstation.com/cars/ford-f150-svt-raptor-a1140.html

Thomas M-4
09-03-09, 23:19
I would say, logistically, that a good bug out vehicle must fulfill each of these specs:

V8 Gas or Diesel- provides ample power and torque. Ables such a vehicle to carry heavier loads and/or traverse steep terrain if necessary.

Four Wheel Drive- again, terrain dependent. If off-road driving is necessary, 4wd is a must.
Tires- All terrains at the least, if not off-road tires such as BFGoodrich A/Ts. These provide ample on-road performance while at the same time offering superior off-road and cross-country capabilities.
Passenger and Cargo Space- gotta carry your s***. Enough said.
Fuel Capacity- as large as possible. Given the rest of these suggestions, I forsee fuel being the limiting factor of any bug out vehicle. Carry as much fuel as you can, and you increase the distance you can traverse....your "legs" get longer for every additional gallon of fuel, whether that be gas or diesel, that you can carry.
Maintenance- necessary for any good vehicle. What good would it do you to have the best 4x4 on the road if it has bad spark plugs and the alternator craps out after 100 miles? Onboard tools should be carried as well. These should include basic hand tools whihc would enable any technically able individual to fix minor problems with the vehicle. Common spare parts should be available, either carried onboard or to be acquired.
Lighting- simple headlights often won't cut it. The addition of fog or driving lights greatly increases your off-road capability at night and can increase safety.

A grille guard wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Thats pretty much what I can think of off the top of my head. Given the above parameters, a vehicle such as that would be able to traverse highways with ease and have the "legs" to get you and the occupants out of harms way on a single tank of fuel; while at the same time off-road driving could be accomplished if necessary.

4wd Is very nice but it isn't a must have:eek: Let me duck out the way the muds flying literally:p I live in AL and if you have ever heard the term Georgia red clay its also Alabama red clay. You can go many places and go through all most as much mud holes in a 2wd with [REAL MUD TIRES and a limited slip is good to have also] Most important is to have real MUD TIRES not A/T tires. I have seen many times were a 2WD with TRUE MUD TIRES go in places that was thought only 4WD could go. It is trickery to do it usually you are spinning like mad and shooting rooster tails but it can be done of course it would be wise you try it before the SHTF situation show that you do have some practical experience in doing it .
True mud tire's eject the mud from the tread [self cleaning if you think of it] where as A/T are no were near as good. 4 WD nice but it can be done with a 2WD with the Correct tires and some experience
LET THE MUD SLINGING COMMENCE :p

zushwa
09-03-09, 23:45
I've seen these threads often turn into "a burly 4x4 with gas cans and luggage racks" kind of mentality. The reality is people are going to bug out in what they drive every day. Can we take the type of vehicle into consideration?? Sure. I'd personally like to discuss how to maintain ANY vehicle and what to take with us in an emergency. I'd also like to discuss movement and travel considerations during multiple types of scenarios.

I saw somewhere, could have been here, where someone had a pallet of gear and goods in his garage and when it was time to go he just lifted the pallet into his truck or trailer and off he went. I thought that was an excellent idea. You can manage and maintain the "pallet" and still have use of your vehicle. I think this mentality has a ton of merit. I dont think it has to be a pallet. It could just be a tough box or a duffle, etc. Obviously the space you have and the number of people you must account for play a role in the decision making. What I like about this concept is you can have some bare essentials for on the road emergencies (first line and second line mentality) and then have your "third line" pre-staged and ready to go. I'm all about scalability, whether it's your personal survival gear, fighting gear, or vehicle gear.

Thoughts?

Gramps
09-04-09, 00:03
One might also consider the color of BOV, to blend into ones climate/environment where one lives. Being low key could be a real asset. Who knows what/who may come running in ones direction if spotted.

Know your geographic area also, get out and snoop around.

I try to not let my tank get under a 1/2 tank always. If I see a storm brewing of any kind I head to a station and top off the tank any way.

Spade
09-04-09, 00:15
I've seen these threads often turn into "a burly 4x4 with gas cans and luggage racks" kind of mentality. The reality is people are going to bug out in what they drive every day. Can we take the type of vehicle into consideration?? Sure. I'd personally like to discuss how to maintain ANY vehicle and what to take with us in an emergency. I'd also like to discuss movement and travel considerations during multiple types of scenarios.

I saw somewhere, could have been here, where someone had a pallet of gear and goods in his garage and when it was time to go he just lifted the pallet into his truck or trailer and off he went. I thought that was an excellent idea. You can manage and maintain the "pallet" and still have use of your vehicle. I think this mentality has a ton of merit. I dont think it has to be a pallet. It could just be a tough box or a duffle, etc. Obviously the space you have and the number of people you must account for play a role in the decision making. What I like about this concept is you can have some bare essentials for on the road emergencies (first line and second line mentality) and then have your "third line" pre-staged and ready to go. I'm all about scalability, whether it's your personal survival gear, fighting gear, or vehicle gear.

Thoughts?


Good points. I right now do not have the funds to buy a seperate bug out vehicle. so I will be using either my wifes Grand Am or my 86 Suburban (aka tank) depending on the situation. right now my bug out scenario if needed is to load my little black trunk of paced gear into the desired vehicle & loading some extra water & food & hitting the road. However more than likely if possible where I am now I wourld prefer to bug in. I a few miles outside a very small town an hour away from any major cities in a small group of people. But if the need arises I do not have a dedicated vehicle. Sure the Grand Am is a little more fuel efficient but the Sub. will go about anywhere & hauls a crap ton of people & gear at about 12 mpg.

oregonshooter
09-04-09, 00:27
My rig is a 1993 Suburban 4X4 with a 454 engine. It has a 42 gal (420 miles) capacity and ability to carry a refill on the roof.

I'm currently buying a 26ft trailer to hook to it as I'm bugging to another city 300 miles away or another state so a pre packed trailer I can live in seems like a pretty good idea.

Funny how no one want to bug out with a trailer because they see bugging out as MADMAX scenarios.

ColdDeadHands
09-04-09, 04:42
Funny how no one want to bug out with a trailer because they see bugging out as MADMAX scenarios.

I actually like the Idea but because of all the Horses and Dogs we have, my wife and I decided to bug in instead of bugging out.

Chooie
09-04-09, 06:33
We have two vehicles right now that could possibly serve to GTFO of Dodge - my daily driven Mazdaspeed 3 and my project Isuzu Trooper. Of the two, obviously the Trooper is the more "traditional" BOV - 4WD, tough, good space, simple - but it's not all about that. Depending on where you live in this country, being able to tick along at 155mph on abandoned desert roads may well be a more viable option than being able to crawl over sand dunes. IF you can get out early enough with good warning, give me a fast, stable road car with space and good range over a thirsty four wheeler. If you want both, get a Subaru WRX STI or Mitsubishi Evo X. In a true bug out scenario my MS3 will probably be the go to vehicle, and it will have the snow tires on it. I drive it every day and I trust it a hell of a lot more than the Isuzu.

03humpalot
09-04-09, 07:59
The pallet idea is slick, my GTFO of dodge kit is loaded in those PX special black footlockers currently.

My personal opinion is that taking a high speed precision driving/and an offroad course will put you waaaay ahead of the power curve should you need to unass your AO.

Anyone have recommendations on good quality flatbed trailers? Something suitable for minor offroad use would be nice. I need to haul an ATV/and snowmobile(dont own it yet)and as much kit as i can load onto said trailer. Tow vehicle is a 2006 Dodge 3/4 ton 4x4 cummins turbo diesel.

Any help appreciated.

ST911
09-04-09, 09:16
I've seen these threads often turn into "a burly 4x4 with gas cans and luggage racks" kind of mentality. The reality is people are going to bug out in what they drive every day. Can we take the type of vehicle into consideration?? Sure. I'd personally like to discuss how to maintain ANY vehicle and what to take with us in an emergency. I'd also like to discuss movement and travel considerations during multiple types of scenarios.

Agreed. Let's not do the Mad Max, TEOTWAWKI, zombie BS.

Same question applies here as with other stuff... What does the widget (in this case, a vehicle) have to accomplish?

If all you've got is a Chevy Malibu, what do you do?

Most folks will need to leave because of relatively common disaster scenarios, and usually have some amount of notice to do so. Looking at the various hurricane evacuation scenarios is useful here. In those, drivers that had problems ran out of gas, overheated their vehicles, had flats, or had other maintenance problems. Extra fuel, water, two real spares, and some hose/belt and simple improv repair parts are useful.

Blizzards, floods, post-disaster favor ground clearance and four wheel drive. Same other considerations apply.

The ability to go cross country off road isn't a bad thing, but the need to do so is overestimated, as is the liklihood of success. Look around as you travel and think about how realistic it is. If you're headed for the hills on forest service roads to bug-in in the trees, fine. If you're trying to get from City A to City B, not so much.

All of the above would benefit from tow straps and accessory lighting.

Having a haligan, pry bar, saws, hatchet, come-a-longs, bolt cutters, etc are handy should you need to clear obstacles.

I like the idea of pulling a small camper if you'll stay on the roads. Home on wheels, wherever you end up.

Above all else, keeping whatever you have in good repair is essential. I appreciate the realities of time and budget. There's little room for "I meant to take care of that" for most folks, though. Especially those that live where mother nature likes to roar.

zushwa
09-04-09, 09:20
The pallet idea is slick, my GTFO of dodge kit is loaded in those PX special black footlockers currently.

My personal opinion is that taking a high speed precision driving/and an offroad course will put you waaaay ahead of the power curve should you need to unass your AO.

Anyone have recommendations on good quality flatbed trailers? Something suitable for minor offroad use would be nice. I need to haul an ATV/and snowmobile(dont own it yet)and as much kit as i can load onto said trailer. Tow vehicle is a 2006 Dodge 3/4 ton 4x4 cummins turbo diesel.

Any help appreciated.

I think sourcing a small, easy to tow, trailer would be a great idea. It probably wouldn't be too expensive and would have little impact on ones day to day life.

Anyone?

MarshallDodge
09-04-09, 09:41
Why are we bugging out? Earthquake, hurricane, gas leak or riots, mayhem, invasion, etc?

I have the 4X4 and camper to tow behind but would only go that route if I absolutely had to. We live in a semi-rural area and have the security and resources to stay put. Heading out into the unknown would definitely increase risk.

I think the key to the situation is timing. If you get out before things get too crazy then about anything will do. Near the middle or end when panic has struck and its pretty much every man for himself then your vehicle may need to be something that resembles a tank or armored Hummer.

The ability to go off-road definitely gives you more options. A 4x4, motorcycle, ATV, horse, or even a horse can give you that capability. Setting out on foot with a good pack would be the stealthiest.

MIKE G
09-04-09, 12:50
.....

zushwa
09-04-09, 12:57
Those are just some thoughts and considerations that I have pondered over, hopefully they turn some lightbulbs on over someones head.

DOC

You are the man. Thanks.

Mac5.56
09-04-09, 12:58
4wd Is very nice but it isn't a must have:eek: Let me duck out the way the muds flying literally:p I live in AL and if you have ever heard the term Georgia red clay its also Alabama red clay. You can go many places and go through all most as much mud holes in a 2wd with [REAL MUD TIRES and a limited slip is good to have also] Most important is to have real MUD TIRES not A/T tires. I have seen many times were a 2WD with TRUE MUD TIRES go in places that was thought only 4WD could go. It is trickery to do it usually you are spinning like mad and shooting rooster tails but it can be done of course it would be wise you try it before the SHTF situation show that you do have some practical experience in doing it .
True mud tire's eject the mud from the tread [self cleaning if you think of it] where as A/T are no were near as good. 4 WD nice but it can be done with a 2WD with the Correct tires and some experience
LET THE MUD SLINGING COMMENCE :p

Yep, grew up in dirt, mud, and sand in the middle of the Red Dessert. My Dad use to catch so much sh@t for not having a 4wd truck, and only having a rear wheel 450. In all of my life that dude never got stuck to the point where he needed to get pulled out.

Mac5.56
09-04-09, 13:00
I've seen these threads often turn into "a burly 4x4 with gas cans and luggage racks" kind of mentality. The reality is people are going to bug out in what they drive every day. Can we take the type of vehicle into consideration?? Sure. I'd personally like to discuss how to maintain ANY vehicle and what to take with us in an emergency. I'd also like to discuss movement and travel considerations during multiple types of scenarios.


This is where I want this thread to go too. I could post that I want one of the 6 wheel UN vehicles they are using in the Sudan right now, but that's not the point of this thread!

jwfuhrman
09-04-09, 20:33
I actually like the Idea but because of all the Horses and Dogs we have, my wife and I decided to bug in instead of bugging out.

yep, I live in NE Indiana, worst weather we get is Tornado's and the every 100yr flood that gets us 30ft ABOVE flood stage....and even then, living 3miles from the river like I do, a good 100ft above ANY flood plain, I dont have to worry about it. I dont have to go far to get to family either as the family stayed in 1 general spot(within 1mile of each other). And between my parents and I, plus my cousin and my grandparents we own just over 2000acres that we farm and 200-300acres of that is hunting ground(un-farmable/wooded/creek bottom)

I think we are good to go on just staying right where we are.....

But, if I had to have a BOV, Id go with the 67 GMC that we have as our farm truck. its a 3/4ton 4speed Manual 4x4. Its been in the family since it was new. We've used it to push over good sized trees, and to haul 1000 bushel grain wagons. Doesnt get the best of fuel mileage but its never let us down.

zushwa
09-05-09, 01:13
What it looks like as of late is that each of these threads spawns into a new one. I would say that the decision to stay or go could be a separate thread altogether. This one is about leaving, and vehicle considerations, once we've decided to go.

ColdDeadHands
09-05-09, 06:06
1. In a survival situation I count on nobody but myself, this is not the military. People are flakey, that's a fact of life. Make plans that only include you and your very, very immediate family.
2. It's easier & safer to just stay in your home, buggin' out has a rather slim chance of success as there are so many variables.
3. Time to unsubscribe from these bugout threads...reading some of them is like watching a science fiction movie. I can already see Joe Schmoe at home spending half an hour to load all his guns and ammo into the Suburban while calling and trying to get a hold of the other 12 people all of which are in the same survival unit. Finally after everybody arrived 5 hours later, they need to load up the 800 pound survival pallet into the SUV or onto a trailer which would make getting around harder. Once everything is ready to go, they need to stop at a gas station because half the vehicles they have are running on empty. Once they finally get to the gas station, it is already closed because they ran out of gas...5 hours earlier they still would have had gas. Trying to find another gas station one of the vehicles has 2 flat tires but no big deal, they just use the spare on the vehicle and another similar sized spare from another vehicle....after a couple hundred miles if the vehicle which received the mix and match spare has limited slip, it will burn up the differential or mess up something else because of difference in tire size. Once they finally arrive at their bug-out location they hear in the radio that the Hurricane wasn't that bad after all but it doesn't matter as they NEED to Bug out for sure now because the Home traffic has every road jammed up. Good thing they loaded up all that gear!

zushwa
09-05-09, 07:09
3. Time to unsubscribe from these bugout threads...reading some of them is like watching a science fiction movie.

It will only get that way if we let it.

perna
09-05-09, 08:21
Most of these threads either start out or end in the SHTF/total nuclear/zombie/alien attack/total break down of society, with an instant need to be armed like a seal team with your kids manning the sniper turrets while you load the vehicle so you can all make it to the promised land.

03humpalot
09-05-09, 08:33
Great post Doc.

I got a suggestion to check these trailers out (Fills my needs currently).
http://www.jumpingjacktrailers.com/tent-trailer.cfm

perna
09-05-09, 08:44
I fail to see the point of towing a TENT! That is just a tent, but you have to tow it, WTF. I can understand towing a pop-up camper which has normal camper stuff in it but that thing is nothing more than a tent.

zushwa
09-05-09, 09:33
I fail to see the point of towing a TENT! That is just a tent, but you have to tow it, WTF. I can understand towing a pop-up camper which has normal camper stuff in it but that thing is nothing more than a tent.

Negative. Click on the links and see its utility. It has the features Mr. humpalot requested plus a tent.

MIKE G
09-05-09, 09:51
.......

K.L. Davis
09-05-09, 11:38
3. Time to unsubscribe from these bugout threads...reading some of them is like watching a science fiction movie.
It will only get that way if we let it.
...and we won't

dutch308
09-05-09, 12:13
Guys just a quick question.... Some of you have talked about PX Footlockers, are these just some sort of basic boxes or are they a specific brand and style of box? I have several toughtote boxes on hand but am always looking for other/better ideas for storage.

the judge
09-05-09, 12:53
I am all for the "pallet" concept. I think that is a great idea and will work on developing that concept to fit my needs.

As I posted in the long gun thread....bugging out, whatever the case, is going to be a last resort. Having said that, having prepostitioned gear ready to move in the event its go time sounds worth spending some time working on.

I drive a 4x4 as my daily vehicle and I carry tow equipment, a big jack, tools, axe, shovel, spares oild, etc, all the time anyway, so adding the "pallet" of gear is an appealing concept.

Once thing I think is a really good item to have is a good quality chainsaw (which I need myself!) Trying to get out of an area in a hurry with trees or power poles dropping all over is going to get real tiresome if you plan to try and pull them all out of the way with your vehicle and a tow chain or strap. Cut the bastards and drive on!

While I own a travel trailer, and have access to a heavy duty utility trailer, I don't beleive they are the way to go. If you get off road anywhere, there is a good chance you will get stuck pulling it at some point if you get off a decent road surface. Most travel trailers are heavy and don't have the clearance you need off the beaten path. If you go that way, you need to carry even more spare tires if you going to ensure you reach whereever you are headed. They also tend to make you vehicle far less manouverable if you are trying to dodge debris, flying debris or other obstrcutions scattered all over the road surface.

ryanm
09-05-09, 12:54
Gorilla on wheels footlocker I believe what they are referring to with the PX boxes. I would not want to rely on one though, I'd get pelican cases. The PX boxes are great for mailing crap home from the AOR, but thats about all I use them for.

dutch308
09-05-09, 12:56
Thanks!

theJanitor
09-05-09, 13:46
everyone should remember to practice roadside repair and maintenance.

how well/fast can you change a tire? Did you throw a bunch of gear on the spare, therefore blocking it's accessibility? can you do it in the dark? after putting on those oversized tires on, does your factory jack work? etc.

do you have tow gear? you may need to pull people/friends out of a bad spot, and you may need help yourself. do you know the best attachment points on your chassis for your tow straps, etc? do you have some extra fixtures (shackles, clamps, etc) to adapt to non-traditional vehicles or attachment points.

as for vehicle mods, my old chevy 4x4 was converted to a dual battery setup, with a switch to cut/switch power between them. a dead battery could and will stop you in your tracks. i also ran battery cables all the way to the rear of the vehicle, it allows for easy jumping of other cars on narrow roads/lanes without having to turn around. you'd also be surprised how handy a 12v to 110v inverter is. and those portable battery jumpers can be invaluable

MIKE G
09-05-09, 13:53
......

03humpalot
09-05-09, 13:57
I fail to see the point of towing a TENT! That is just a tent, but you have to tow it, WTF. I can understand towing a pop-up camper which has normal camper stuff in it but that thing is nothing more than a tent.

Follow the link,it allows you to tow 2 ATV's and has 96 SQ ft of living space. This is something i can use right now for hunting/recreation and not just something to be staged in case of mutant ninja bikers invading the states. That allows me to load my truck with essential supplies and have a secondary/tertiary method of transportation with me in the event the truck takes a shit/etc.

My rig is getting outfitted with a transfer flow combo fuel tank/tool box next im home so bed space (Cant load an ATV in the back with that tank) will be limited....hence the trailer.

Based on the situation and available time i would like to be non foot mobile as long as possible....hence the trailer and ATV's. If i have to unass the AO on horseback or foot i have those contigency plans already built and in place. This is another option that im currently working on. It may not work for you so YMMV and all that happy shit.

So if there are any trailer guru's around i would appreciate any knowledge you care to share.

zushwa
09-05-09, 14:02
I think just for clarity's sake we should define the "pallet" as something pre positioned with gear and supplies that can easily be loaded into whatever vehicle you would use to travel. That means it truly could be a pallet, but also might just be a large duffle that will fit in the truck. I'm considering one of those nylon roof storage bags. I used one on a trip to Idaho and it worked pretty well. I already have it, it's rather large, and easy to hook to the wife's SUV. The "pallet" needs to fit your needs.

I'm also all about staying in place. I think that is usually the best choice, but not always.

About the chainsaw; back in the late 90's there was a big ass ice storm in the Williamsburg/Va Beach area and my wife and I were on our way back from PA. 64 was a mess and covered with broken branches and down power lines. Every exit was closed and hardly anyone was on the road. My wife and I pulled off to find a gas station or ANYTHING that was open and there were a couple gentlemen more prepared than I cutting their way back into their homes with chainsaws.

I also know a couple teams that carry small chainsaws and cordless grinders for breaching. Easy portable way to get into and out of things.

03humpalot
09-05-09, 14:09
dutch308,
Like already said the px footlockers are just plastic boxes that we use for storage/mail shit home in. They arent near as sturdy as a pelican case but i had so many laying around i put them into use. They are good for stacking copenhagen and shit on as well ;)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/thenation69/62566baa.jpg

MIKE G
09-05-09, 14:14
.....

dutch308
09-05-09, 14:26
Thanks 03 and Doc, After seeing those in ur pics I know I have seen them before. They look like what I am looking for. I already have some heavier duty boxes and was just looking for something to keep general items in and stored out of the way.

MIKE G
09-05-09, 15:07
.......

the judge
09-05-09, 15:10
Josh,

Roof carriage of bug out gear is not a bad idea. If you are using a vehicle that has interior space such as an SUV or the bed of a pick up, you can keep that space relatively clear for a quick shelter to rack out for the night or a few hours while on the move. Probably an even better idea if on the move with a family in tow; instant shelter, get the kids down for some sleep while you sort your gear for the night.

03humpalot
09-05-09, 15:22
Doc,
its a gunslinger. It worked well for what i needed.

MIKE G
09-05-09, 15:45
......

trappernana
09-06-09, 13:25
Seems to me that any source of transportation that requires gas and oil would only be a short term solution. Eventually the gas and oil will be hard to come by. Living in the country, Our bug out vehicle will include horse and buggy. I'm sure it sounds silly to those who live in suburban and urban areas, I understand thats not an option for them. But I would encourage those who do live in those areas to consider sources of transportation that get very high miles per gallon,or even those that are "human " powered instead of "horse " powered.Unless of coures it is "truly" "horse" powered. I would recomend two "horse powered".Going back to a simpler time might be exactly what this country needs. Conflict over resources will be costant,we choose to be self sufficiant. The first rule of nature is self preservation. Good luck to all and Know that cooperation not confrontation would get us through any disaster. "Walk softly but carry a big stick". Or for us a lot of ammo. Take care of you and yours.;)

QuietShootr
09-06-09, 13:28
I think just for clarity's sake we should define the "pallet" as something pre positioned with gear and supplies that can easily be loaded into whatever vehicle you would use to travel. That means it truly could be a pallet, but also might just be a large duffle that will fit in the truck. I'm considering one of those nylon roof storage bags. I used one on a trip to Idaho and it worked pretty well. I already have it, it's rather large, and easy to hook to the wife's SUV. The "pallet" needs to fit your needs.

I'm also all about staying in place. I think that is usually the best choice, but not always.

About the chainsaw; back in the late 90's there was a big ass ice storm in the Williamsburg/Va Beach area and my wife and I were on our way back from PA. 64 was a mess and covered with broken branches and down power lines. Every exit was closed and hardly anyone was on the road. My wife and I pulled off to find a gas station or ANYTHING that was open and there were a couple gentlemen more prepared than I cutting their way back into their homes with chainsaws.

I also know a couple teams that carry small chainsaws and cordless grinders for breaching. Easy portable way to get into and out of things.

Yup. A small chainsaw, a set of bolt cutters, and an 18v DeWalt die grinder are damn handy things to keep in a box on your truck.

the judge
09-06-09, 14:58
Seems to me that any source of transportation that requires gas and oil would only be a short term solution. Eventually the gas and oil will be hard to come by. Living in the country, Our bug out vehicle will include horse and buggy. I'm sure it sounds silly to those who live in suburban and urban areas, I understand thats not an option for them. But I would encourage those who do live in those areas to consider sources of transportation that get very high miles per gallon,or even those that are "human " powered instead of "horse " powered.Unless of coures it is "truly" "horse" powered. I would recomend two "horse powered".Going back to a simpler time might be exactly what this country needs. Conflict over resources will be costant,we choose to be self sufficiant. The first rule of nature is self preservation. Good luck to all and Know that cooperation not confrontation would get us through any disaster. "Walk softly but carry a big stick". Or for us a lot of ammo. Take care of you and yours.;)

While not a silly idea, horses do require a lot of forethought and planning. They require food and access to water. If you have pack animals that might help, but you start to limit what you can carry for youself if you are packing lot's of grain for the nose bag. One can't assume what time of year we need to hit the trail. In the winter forage can be pretty scarce, which dictates the need for more feed for the horses. I do think it is an option if you are using the horses to access a high country retreat or cache, but it isn't likely a good option for your "average" horse owner.

Irish
09-06-09, 16:48
If getting out with 2 vehicles I would recommend walkie-talkies that can be purchased at Wal-Mart for $18. Cobra units that have 20 channels and reach up to 16 miles if no obstructions are in the way. Cheap, easy comms that will be a huge asset and way easier to use than cell phones in an evac situation.
Another thought concerning gas usage and availability in a vehicle would be to have sturdy mountain bikes as a backup. Much more efficient than walking when carrying a bunch of crap and having to go long distances. Same thing applies with having spare tubes & such.

03humpalot
09-08-09, 12:06
Well said the hell with it and decided to move forward with acquiring one of those trailers. Will update in November after i have made some dry runs unassing my fortress and using it during Elk season.

Link to a pretty good review of said trailer. MSRP is 5 grand.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipment/adventure_equip/Jumping_jack.html

fatmoocow
10-16-09, 14:28
Ask anyone that dealt with Katrina and they will tell you two things.

1. Gas stations don't work when there's no power, they have sold out of gas, or when they are covered by 20 foot of water.
2. Being behind a million other people out of gas on the road means you aren't going anywhere.

Leave first, have gas ready to do. Everything else can be purchased when you get out of the disaster zone. A honda prius is better than wrangler if it means you can get out of dodge without running out of fuel.

Thomas M-4
10-16-09, 14:44
Ask anyone that dealt with Katrina and they will tell you two things.

1. Gas stations don't work when there's no power, they have sold out of gas, or when they are covered by 20 foot of water.
2. Being behind a million other people out of gas on the road means you aren't going anywhere.

Leave first, have gas ready to do. Everything else can be purchased when you get out of the disaster zone. A honda prius is better than wrangler if it means you can get out of dodge without running out of fuel.

Yeap I drove about 13 hours from Biloxi to B-ham. There was no way to get gas at the stations in Biloxi the lines went out into the streets I was lucky enough to have filled the tank in Mobile saw a lot of wrecks trying to get up north some bad ones.

Shibumi
10-18-09, 16:44
Hey all,

New guy here to this great forum!
Vehicles are a hot topic, and here is my perspective, greatly shaped by being overseas, and driving a 4x4 daily at work and as POV.

If you have to BO, then a 4x4 is your overall best bet, be it urban or rural. There are people who disagree, and argue a 2x4 is just as good. Here are the reasons.

1-4x4 truck or SUV is built to carry extra weight, and heavier duty suspension than a car or light truck.

2-Higher ground clearance. Must stucks involve getting "high centered", and this can also contribute to undercarriage damage.

3-A 2x4 is actually only 1 wheel doing all the work. When you lose traction, you lost all forward movement, unless you have a "Limited Slip" or "Locker" installed. The LS allows minimum spin, and then kicks in to power the other wheel to provide power equally. The Locker locks and now you have equal power wheither you have one wheel in air or not.
A 4x4 is one wheel in front and back getting power. If you are getting spin in front and back, then you had better have a rear locker, LS, or better yet, lockers in front and rear.
Then you can pretty go anywhere and not worry about traction.

4-Gearing-My Toyota Tacoma drives like a sports car, can go 108 MPH, and is a dream to drive. It can also climb a mountain like a goat. Why? Excellent gearing, and a great 4LOW. This gear is so low, that if I am climbing a mountain, I maintain great traction, and if I am going down hill with a big load, I dont burn up the brakes. I can also climb over a item and not have to use a ton of gas to throttle through it. Slow and steady wins the race, and saves the vehicle.

5-4x4 VS 2x4-Say you have two vehicles, one a PreRunner 2 wheel drive and one a 4 wheel drive Tacoma. Excellent vehicles, but one is more equipped.
Now take two equal drivers, on one course. The 4x will excel. Why? Technology was the limit, not the people.
Now take same vehicles, same course, and an experienced off road driver in the 2x, and an amateur in the 4x. Results would probably weigh in with the 2x. Why?
Experience will take your vehicle places that would shock you.

Skill-Knowing how to handle your vehicle, what you can and cannot do are huge.
Ex:I have a 2005 Tacome TRD, 4x4 quadcab with 107K miles. I have driven extensively all over California and Nevada in it. I have driven through LA, Bay Area, and Las Vegas traffic, and off roaded it extensively. I know what I can pull off, and what is a pipe dream, all with no damage!

Reading Terrain-This is key, and will save you or get you in deep dookie real quick.
Alway look ahead, maintaining a "High Horizon". This is the concept of looking far ahead to plan your route. Always know what is in front, but don't fixate. This is how something "came out of nowhere". It was always there, you just did not see it! This works great the faster you are going.
Ex:Driving on I-5 in California allows you to swerve around retread from 18 wheel trucks, and see the worst drivers in California. A "High Horizon" allows you to plan and give yourself enough "Gap" to plan your moves safely. This also prevents "Overreacting", which is a huge cause of accidents. Cars go great straight ahead, but when you whip the wheel to and fro, it is like pissing off a tiger. They tend to go crazy! Smooth and gentle and enough finess to miss an object. A miss is as good as a mile, and a little goes a long ways.

Vehicle Capability-Knowing clearance, handling, power, etc. will make or break it.
When you go off road, you need to visualize where your two front wheels are, where the front differential is at, and how much clearance you have. Now imagine what "Line" will take you through or over this object, and how these factors will play into it. This works great at slow speed, crawling is best, and can be done safely. Usually damage occurs at speed, not when you "tap" a rock or curb. If you line up your front wheels correctly, everything else tends to follow.

Ex: I know for example that my V-6 will allow me to go 80 MPH for 300 miles. I also know I can go 100 MPH for 200 miles! That is a huge difference! Know your range, and how to get the most out of a tank of gas. Stop and go is another issue.

Ex: Weight-There are a million gteat things to put into a vehicle to make it even more bad ass, but here is a fact. Every extra 100 Lbs. of weight you put into a vehicle, reduces the MPG by 1. If you get 20 MPG, and add 500 pounds, you just got a 15 MPG vehicle. It all adds up quick, and if that 500 is armor bumpers, and protection, fine, but that is all low on the center of gravity.
Now, add all the kit and pallets, etc. How much does it all add up to? Is it up high? How did that affect handling? The center of gravity will affect all handling, especially at speed! A rollover tends to slow a BO a bit.

6-Evasive Driving-This is a lot of fun when you get paid to learn. Many cops are great at it, because they get to do it alot. When I was first trained, the best driver was a former tow truck driver. The guy was a technician! I had valeted cars at one point, and we backed them all in. You got really good at a variety of cars.

Evasive driving, or High Speed Pursuit is technical, and requires a lot of focus, hence you can tire quickly. The biggest thing is knowing your vehicle. Many will take great levels of strain, but are actually fairly fallable. They are easy to trash, and if you don't take that into consideration, you will learn real quick.

Brakes-They work great, and should be used correctly often. If they wear low, your asking for trouble when you need them. A transmission is not your braking system, even though downshifting works, it is not a brake.

Tires-They are key for traction and handling. I use the Bridgestone Desert Dueller Revos. They are 100% the best tire I have ever used. Radials, 100K warranty, 112 MPH rated, sidewall protection, and handle on pavement like glue. Even in rain, snow, sand, 120 degree heat, they are fantastic. On our last snow trip, chains were available but never used, and tires worked great.
Why did I choose these? I like to drive street and off road, and like exceptional capability. These meet it, and have never failed, which is why I continue to buy them.
Ex: During a long road trip, I drove from Livermore in Northern California, to Carlsbad in Southern California. This drive is 425 miles, and I averaged 100 MPH the entire way. 4.5 hours later, I was there. Exigent circumstances were in play, and nobody was on the road, late at night. Truck and tires held up excellent.

Tire Repair-This is the Achilles Heel of any chariot. The most common off road tire damage is side wall rock cuts. It has the least protection, and is very vulnerable to sharp rocks. Hence side wall protection tires! Avoiding it is paramount, and then know how to change your tires is huge. If the sidewall is cut, forget it and drive to flat safe location to change it.
If it has a slow leak, whip out the Slime! Fix-a-Flat works great, and injects a sealant into the interior of the tire with high pressure air. If you can, get it rotating fast to distribute it, or you will have a Thud due to pooling. This is annoying. Don't ask how I know.
Carrying 2 spares is smart and most trucks have one underneath. Having one is the bed or on bumper is extra insurance. When you get a rim, make sure it matches the lug pattern of your current vehicle. ;)

Evasive driving is about decision making, and remaining calm and not over driving the snot out of your vehicle. Cornering is where it all goes bad, and this all starts with the set-up on the approach. There is a lot of great videos and books, but what is fun if practicing in your daily driving. This can be done safely and legally, by planning your next two moves, and being smooth. That is the name of the game. Look for the options, weigh them, and then execute smoothly.
The less you have to apply gas and brakes, them better you will be. It is all finese.

7-Off Road Driving-This is best learned through a school or with an experienced off roader. Why? They have already made all the mistakes, and you can learn from them. There are 5 things which get people in trouble.

1-Clearance of undercarriage and frame.
If you get on the ground and actually look at how much clearance you have bottom of front and rear differential to ground, you will be shocked. Usually less than a foot. Either side is better, but then look at muffler. Another smash point. Look at everything and take note. This all has to be quided over or around the terrain, or make modification to life it, or armor it heavily.
Ex: Getting FJ-40 high centered in sand sucks, but at least you can dig out. Getting HC on rock is really not fun.

2-Angle of Approach/Departure-This is the angle between your front or rear edge of bumper and front/rear contact point of tire. The farther out the bumper, and lower the distance between bumper and ground, the less you have to work with.
This is why a Jeep is so good off road. They can attack something with very little bumper in the way to get hung up. This applies when you drive up a hill and when you come down. Will your bumper get stuck? Not sure, get out and check. Look from the side.
Ex:When I first got my FJ-40, I thought it was unstoppable. I then discovered the AOD concept, when I hung it up on rear bumper. It took a jack to remove it, as I now had no traction to pull or push to or fro.

3-Dimension and Limits-Your vehicle will only fit so narrow. Know your side limits, and mirror limits. Know your turning radius, forward and backward. Can you turn around here? Can you back out of this dead end? At night?
Depth of obstacle? Just because you have a bad ass War Wagon, does not mean running through any body of water or mud is a good idea!
Ex:I drove my FJ-40 to edge of pool of water, and wanted to cross. Walked out about 6 feet, and water was around calf height. No problem! Drove 10 feet out, and it dropped to above hood level. Guess where the Air Intake was? Hood level!
My buddy almost peed himslelf laughing. That did not help! Do you know where your Air Intake is? Water is a horrible thing to add, as it locks your engine, and kills it. Diesels handle this much better than gas engines.

4-Throttle-A V-8 is great with all that power, but if you look at all good leaders, they know when and how to exercise that power. Same with your right foot. Finese is the way to go. Careful application of power now, saves judicious application of digging later. Getting your tires dug in deep sucks, especially down to the frame. What is really fun is when you blow your U Joint. This is the weak link in the drive shaft, and is first to go when people try and floor it. Be gentle and it will reward you.

5-Unprepared-Two is one, and one is none. This applies to many things, including going off roading by yourself. Two trucks or Jeeps means you can get pulled out easier. If solo, at least equip yourself for Self Rescue. A winch, Come-a-long, and such are very valuable. Even tow straps for others to pull you out are essential.
For those who say they never get stuck, they are lying, or never leave the Costco parking lot. Always tell someone where you are going, when you will be back, and have a plan to SYOA, or Save Your Own Ass.

8-Fuel-Most cars and trucks can get 300 miles range in good conditions. How many people have their tanks full, RIGHT NOW?
Very few, and Katrina proved it.
Keep it topped off daily as a habit, it will cost minimal, and will keep you ahead of the power curve.
Fuel can be carried in plastic or metal full cans, but never inside vehicle. Fumes can and will build up and impair you. I prefer plastic cans, as they are lighter, easier to carry for long distance, and cheaper.
If you carry gas and water, they are exclusive. Keep them different colors, and don't deviate from system.
If you have to weld a hole in a metal can, fill with water first, then weld patch to it. This will prevent explosion from fumes. Water can be dried out later prior to refill.
I keep extra fuel at home, but add fuel additive to keep from turning to gel from sitting. You can get it at auto parts stores, and instead of a couple of months, it can preserve fuel up to a year, gas or diesel.

9-Navigation-GPS is awesome, but not always dependable. Having maps of your area in detail, state maps, and national maps will always help. Have them in large ziplock bag, or laminate them if you can this helps if you want to use Dry Erase or such to mark them for a route.
Keep them stored in vehicle with Chem Lights for visibility of navigator while you are driving.
3 Things to take into consideration-

1-Route Selection-What are your options from your home, and work?Which well maintened routes are available to get out of your town fast?
What are the alternates to those routes? When all the sheep try and run, things will bog down and stop. How will you circumvent them? On road? Off road detour?
Where is there most likely to be a road block? What is road less traveled or known?

2-Resupply-Food and Gas stations along route? Mark them clearly on map. Do they take cash or credit? Hours of operation?

3-Off Road options-What fire trails, side roads, 4x4 roads are there out of your area? Try them during the day on a quite day. Any fences? Locked gates? Blockages? Can your vehicle make it? Loaded down? At night?

10-Exodus VS SHTF?
Most scenarios are Exodus to safe zone. Hopefully they are peaceful, and uneventful, but what if it becomes hostile and turns to SHTF? What then? Do you have a plan for how to avoid, escape or fight through these events?
1-The best option would be avoidance by being hyper aware.
2-If engaged, disengage quickly as possible and reduce damage to vehicle and selves. Get as much between you as possible and disappear.
3-Know options and how to handle ambush, close and far, and establish SOP on how to handle it.
How will you handle a variety of scenarions?
Coming upon a family broken down?
Hitchhikers?
Roadblock? Government or private?
Illness? Injuries?
Sudden change in big picture plan? Safe zone no longer safe?
Vehicle disabled?
Fuel unavailable?
Direct threat to you or your family?
Use of force issues?

These are some of the things which I contemplate or have dealt with personally, and what I would hope would be usefull to my friends and family.
When your vehicle becomes your home and salvation, there are many things to consider, if your to prevail.

I look forward to hearing your thought and perspectives on this.
Thanks,

Phil

ColdDeadHands
10-18-09, 23:51
That's a great post...and all very true...I still like my Touareg a bit better then the Rubicon I had. Don't get me wrong, it was a beast off-road - especially after I lifted it 4" and put 35's on...I wheeled it hard, but on-road ride quality suffered greatly and it could barely get out of it's own way. I don't have big rocks or much mud in my area so the Touareg will do what I need it to. I might get some all terrains on it tho...

Shibumi
10-19-09, 00:27
A secondary option is the standard vehicle, be it sedan, sportscar, etc.
They can all do amazing things, but the biggest is your skill has to overcome all the issues which will challenge it.
The Saudis will take a 2 wheel drive pickup down a huge sanddune and it is no big deal. They make it, and I have definitely pushed my cars to their edge in perfomance. All the same principals apply, you just have to use more brain, and less testosterone to deal with them!

Honu
10-19-09, 01:48
just saw this thread :)

but I like camping and stuff and into expedition stuff
their are a few good off road trailers out there that can hold up to real off roading
I have one from South Africa that is pretty killer :)
for those who do not know ?
www.expeditionportal.com great offroad expo site

the expo guys are a good group and lots of us like this kinda camping just to be away from the crowds of people when camping etc.. so lots to learn from some of the guys over on expo

Aray
10-19-09, 04:26
Ex: Weight-There are a million gteat things to put into a vehicle to make it even more bad ass, but here is a fact. Every extra 100 Lbs. of weight you put into a vehicle, reduces the MPG by 1. If you get 20 MPG, and add 500 pounds, you just got a 15 MPG vehicle.


Don't get me wrong, I like what you are trying to do, but this is not a fact. There are way too many variables between vehicles to make such a statement.

Take an F350 that gets 10 mpg and load it with 3 tons (6000 pounds), that does not net -50 mpg.

Shibumi
10-19-09, 17:52
Aray,
Your absolutely right! It would have a given haul weight which it is designed for. Have you taken the MPG empty vs full of max weight.
I am not a math whiz, but I would hazard a guess that it will be affected.
Being wrong is something I am okay with, as long as I can learn from the issue.
If there is a way around MPG and loading a vehicle to the gills, I would like to know more.
Ultimately, it is about getting our bodies to the safe zone, not hauling the kitchen sink.
However I would like to know if a trailer does improve this compromise in MPG.

Luke_Y
10-22-09, 07:12
Don't get me wrong, I like what you are trying to do, but this is not a fact. There are way too many variables between vehicles to make such a statement.

Take an F350 that gets 10 mpg and load it with 3 tons (6000 pounds), that does not net -50 mpg.

Yep, when your vehicle already gets really crappy mileage it generally is fairly stable. At one time I had a truck that got 11 MPG. It was 11 city, 11 Hwy, 11 with just me in it, 11 fully loaded pulling an overweight trailer, 11 down hill with a tailwind... :( It basically used all the gas it could, all the time. But, gas was cheap then, and it made for easy planning.

Shibumi
10-22-09, 19:40
I guess if you start at the worse case scenario with mileage, at least you get consistency.
In retrospect, I should have elaborated that the formula related to standard 4x4 trucks and Jeeps.
A truck designed to haul New York would clearly not apply.
Thanks for the insight.

THellURider
10-23-09, 09:03
I guess if you start at the worse case scenario with mileage, at least you get consistency.
In retrospect, I should have elaborated that the formula related to standard 4x4 trucks and Jeeps.
A truck designed to haul New York would clearly not apply.
Thanks for the insight.

My family's Yukon Denali's get the same mileage on the highway loaded to the brim with dogs, food, gear whether you're talking about the Denali XL or the regular Denali as they get when empty. Once you get above a certain torque curve for your particular vehicle it doesn't seem to matter.

creeper
10-26-09, 23:58
Here was my thinking on a Bug out Vehicle.

I have a F350, 4x4 with an Aux fuel tank.

If it's a hurricane, then we'll hook up the camper and get out that way with our bug out bags. If we can't make it out of the area, which was common in the Houston evacuation, then we find a Walmart, Home Depot or any other large building and hide behind that. I know people who have done this in their campers.

If we have to bug out quickly as the hordes are attacking then it's only the truck with the ATV in the back. If the wife can't make it to me then we have meeting places.

All our vehicles are diesel. Her car has a range of 600 miles. My truck has a 600+ range also, with additional 100 miles with the ATV before refueling. Range with camper is about 500.

When the gas runs out there are many sources of fuel. Abandoned semis, farm equipment, home heating oil, fat storage bins and of course cooking oil left in the looted stores.

The reason for a 4x4 is that most people will be on the highways and their little 2 wheel drive cars and trucks stand no chance of crossing a damp, muddy, grassy median. Having a 4x4 opens up many more avenues of escape. Would you be able to take a Honda through a wooded area with small downed trees?

With a 4x4 you have a heavy duty vehicle for pushing or pulling. 4low has amazing pushing/pulling power. I'd rather have 4x4 and not need it, then need it and not have it.

Honu
10-27-09, 00:42
If we can't make it out of the area, which was common in the Houston evacuation, then we find a Walmart, Home Depot or any other large building and hide behind that. I know people who have done this in their campers.



always wondered if you backed down into some of those delivery areas they have in large stores for Semi trucks that go down quite a bit and are in some places covered on 3 sides ?

creeper
10-27-09, 00:50
You could. Most of the Super walmarts have space by the oil change bays that have protection on three sides. More then enough to hide a large camper.

Honu
10-27-09, 05:42
You could. Most of the Super walmarts have space by the oil change bays that have protection on three sides. More then enough to hide a large camper.

my camper is really small off road rig from south africa :) but was always thinking :)

lucky where I live now we dont get them and the islands a hit is pretty rare iniki was pretty bad though

ColdDeadHands
10-27-09, 10:05
With a 4x4 you have a heavy duty vehicle for pushing or pulling. 4low has amazing pushing/pulling power. I'd rather have 4x4 and not need it, then need it and not have it.
ditto!

keller
11-14-09, 21:54
A quality tow line is a piece of gear that should be included in your car kit as well. I recently made my DD a 4x4 (Toyota 4runner) because u cant exactly drive over curbs in most sedans. I think enough cant be said about a vehicles ground clearance.

believeraz
11-16-09, 05:16
The pallet idea is slick, my GTFO of dodge kit is loaded in those PX special black footlockers currently.


I thought the same thing. I don't do a pallet, but I have a pre-staged set of rubbermaid storage tubs ready to go. First one is a 72 hour kit for the family. The family drill is that while I'm loading that stuff up and securing premises, the kiddos dump their school backpacks and pack two changes of clothes, and whatever toys/comfort items they can fit. Wife grabs clothes/hygeine for us, and off we go.

We always had a 72 hour kit handy (byproduct of living in hurricane country) but paid more attention to how/what/how long it takes after bugging out live once upon a time. We'd taken one hard direct hit in storm season, and still had a good hole in the roof. A second strong storm took a detour to pay us a visit, and we were concerned that the roof would come off and house would come down. Long and short of it, we packed quickly, loaded the 72 hour kit, photo albums, clothes/hygeine bags, some toys, and the "oh shit" fire safe full of original docs, and punched out. The storm had taken a drastic change in path, and people weren't prepared for it. We beat the main evacuation effort by a good 8 hours, and were out of the state long before the roads were crowded.

After that experience, even though we did ok, I paid a lot closer attention to how we'd load and go in an organized fashion. There's a checklist in the fire safe now. When we lived in the DC area for a few years, we were very comfortable of being able to get out of the area ahead of the masses, just due to proper planning and a couple dry runs.

In this application (which is one of the more likely ones), having a Mad Max-mobile full of off-road supplies was pretty far down the priority list from being able to beat the Jones' to the state line, with everything we needed.

Dirk Williams
11-16-09, 12:17
These threads are a wonderful eye opener. We thought we had it dialed with our perm site in place, and being able to walk to it in a few hours. To have 1000's of rounds of ammo and food stores at our residence, and no way to carry it all unless a vehicle is used is problematic.

Or you stay at home, and just wait for what ever might be coming.

I guess what I have learned from this forum topic is that, Any plan is better then no plan. The ability to adapt specifically to whatever triggers an event is critical to a families survival. To remain flexable is critical.

Good stuff Thank you.

Dirk

MIKE G
12-04-09, 19:23
.......

believeraz
12-05-09, 05:29
Doc,

I've had success with that in a Chrysler Minivan, where the mid-seat was rear-faced and latched in...it was a late 90s or early 2000s model. I've also seen similar done where a simple u-shaped bracket was fabricated and used to hold down and bolt the attachment points of a seat where you'd like it. It'd depend on the way your seat brackets look.

Some of my trucks at work have a stripped out and dura-coated interior, with after market rear facing bench seats installed for the trunk monkey. PM me if you'd like the name of the aftermarket retrofitting company.

Iraq Ninja
12-05-09, 08:36
Racing seats seem to real popular with our vehicles.

The mounting rail in bolted to the floor. The seats to shift to the left or right sides to use either gun port.

The Seats work ok, but can be a bit uncomfortable for wide folks with kit on. Still, the point is to secure the monkey with a 4 point harness so he won't get thrown around or killed in a traffic accident. Wearing helmets in vehicles often results in neck injuries during accidents or IEDs. But, the racing seats seem to stabilize the neck and head a bit better.

Racing seats do not fold down, and thus you loose some cross decking ability.

If you do use a trunk monkey, make sure the AC is good enough to keep him cool.

MIKE G
12-06-09, 00:12
......

01tundra
03-03-10, 14:58
Guess it's a good thing my daily driver's a big burley 4WD that will go pretty much where ever I point it, comfortable for long range trips, and has a refrigerator to boot.........

I have my truck set up for expo type trips, learned a ton from some very knowledgeable folks on this forum - http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/

Even if you're not into off-roading, it's a very good resource and will help you think of things you can do to pretty much any vehicle to make it a little more user friendly for the unexpected. It's also a great place to learn about camping and survival gear.

13MPG
03-04-10, 00:59
ditto!

Same thought here. One of the things that I notice the most about people with big trucks with mud terrain tires is that 8 times out of 10 they do not have a full size spare. Kind of of silly if you think about it. Where the heck are you going to find a 35/12.50/20 if you have a flat? I keep one full size spare in the bed and if there ever was a time to bug out I would throw my 2nd one in there.

01tundra
03-04-10, 07:24
My plan is to just make my own roads if I have to.........

I carry replacement parts for the vital systems (steering, drivetrain, power, fluids), full set of standard & specialty tools, have dual sources of on-board air, carry a portable spool gun mig welder, have an on-board refrigerator/freezer, winch & recovery gear, dual GPS & CB's, dual batteries, selectable locking differentials on both axles, 4.7-L V-8, water and extra fuel, auxiliary lighting for front, rear, & under carriage, can cruise comfortably at 80 MPH if it has to, 4-speed manually shifted transfer case allowing an ultimate low range ratio of approx. 160:1, extended air intake for forging deep water, full interior cage and exterior cage,.........

It averages 15 MPG @ 70 MPH, so I have a range of about 325 miles on the primary tank and closer to 400 miles with the jerry can - not ideal, but there's trade-off's you have to make when building an all-around, long distance vehicle........

Also doesn't hurt that this has served as my daily driver for almost 10 years now, so I have total confidence in it.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/01tundra/Alllieds3.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/01tundra/toyrun-1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/01tundra/Trailreadys-1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/01tundra/P9040008.jpg

thunderinms
03-04-10, 07:44
I have a Ford Excursion Diesel 4WD. It is a 2003 6.0. If you can get an early 2003 back to 2000 with the 7.3 you are better off maintenance wise. You can tow 15,000 lbs and with the HP of my 6.0 I have gotten out of mud with my ATs on my 6.0 that supprised seasoned off-roaders.

I also now have an enclosed trailer to haul stuff discretely too. :D

Neville
03-04-10, 12:57
I second the need for compromise- especially on tight roads and parking slots in Europe. However this harsh winter has told me lessons about the need
for clearance under the car and 4x4. While being more a SUV than a true offroad vehicle, I recently chose a Volkswagen Tiguan. Our central
heat works with Diesel so we always have 2000 liters in a tank at home. With its 140 Diesel horsepowers and ability to tow 2500kg (unlike most asian
brands) its still compact enough for european parkspaces - and (unlike to US brands) sturdy enough to drive 185 km/h all day long on the German
autobahn with no more than 10litres/100km consumption (at 80km/h it needs only 6.5 litres at 100km). Volkswagen is the most common brand here
and the Tiguan leads 4x4 sales so every mechanic knows how to work on those. Already took him offroad - but I guess its true with all cars: a man
has to know his limitations...

03humpalot
03-06-10, 16:45
I thought the same thing. I don't do a pallet, but I have a pre-staged set of rubbermaid storage tubs ready to go. First one is a 72 hour kit for the family. The family drill is that while I'm loading that stuff up and securing premises, the kiddos dump their school backpacks and pack two changes of clothes, and whatever toys/comfort items they can fit. Wife grabs clothes/hygeine for us, and off we go.

We always had a 72 hour kit handy (byproduct of living in hurricane country) but paid more attention to how/what/how long it takes after bugging out live once upon a time. We'd taken one hard direct hit in storm season, and still had a good hole in the roof. A second strong storm took a detour to pay us a visit, and we were concerned that the roof would come off and house would come down. Long and short of it, we packed quickly, loaded the 72 hour kit, photo albums, clothes/hygeine bags, some toys, and the "oh shit" fire safe full of original docs, and punched out. The storm had taken a drastic change in path, and people weren't prepared for it. We beat the main evacuation effort by a good 8 hours, and were out of the state long before the roads were crowded.

After that experience, even though we did ok, I paid a lot closer attention to how we'd load and go in an organized fashion. There's a checklist in the fire safe now. When we lived in the DC area for a few years, we were very comfortable of being able to get out of the area ahead of the masses, just due to proper planning and a couple dry runs.

In this application (which is one of the more likely ones), having a Mad Max-mobile full of off-road supplies was pretty far down the priority list from being able to beat the Jones' to the state line, with everything we needed.

Nice, thanks for the rundown man.

DevilPhrog
03-07-10, 19:35
This has got me to start thinking about my SHTF situation even more. Anyone here plan on bugging out more than 800 miles? My situation my be strange, then again maybe not. If it gets this bad and it looks like we have to hunker down for more than a few days, we will be heading back to NE OH to the family farm from SE GA. We live in a very low, swampy, coastal region, and in reality the closest area that we have friends or family to ride it out with are in Ohio. I have begun the search for a good diesel truck that is 4X4, crew cab, and long bed to evac the family and dog with our gear. I am thinking of putting a shell on it, with bigger under belly fuel tanks, and some good bumpers and a winch. But after reading the threads here I have realized that I need to pack out more than I thought, more ammo, more fuel, food, comfort items for the kids, and tools needed to maintain life i.e. ways to wash clothes, shelter if it takes more than a day to get home, fuel to cook with etc. Man I knew I had some work to do, now I need to re-plan and get my a%^ in gear.

Ga Shooter
03-08-10, 08:50
I will chime in on vehicles and then throw some ideas out there. I own a service station in SE GA (hurricane prone) and have been through several evacs. I will not get into 2WD or 4WD debate you can make your own choices there.

Repair parts in this economy have been getting harder and harder to get. Also no matter how good of a mechanic you might be and I have some of the best working for me you really cannot fix newer vehicles without specialized computer equipment, internet access, and information. You CANNOT count on those things being available in a situation requiring you to leave your home.

While rebuilding carbs is somewhat of a lost art buying a prefuel injected vehicle with electronic ignition will still be your most reliable form of transportation. You can order a carb kit and keep it with the vehicle. The reason I am so focused on the carb is with our current ethanol based fuels that will be your weak point. Also it is mechanical and not electronic in nature so you should be able to find someone with enough skills to rebuild if you need to.

As a gasoline retailer I can tell you as soon as they announce a storm is within 700 miles of here the older people start topping off their tanks (5 days before other people). Old people have wisdom that we do not. I have also stayed open until all my tanks were empty and watched people panick and line up in the streets just hours before the expected announcment of an evacuation. DO NOT WAIT keep your tanks full. I have had to break up fights and wear my gear on the outside just to keep order.

Being a business owner I was one of the last to leave in a caravan to my bug out location. The city looked like something from a bad horror movie. The streets were empty and I cruised through town without seeing anybody until I got close the to the highway. It then took me 10 hours to travel to my bug out location that usually takes me 2.5 hours. I think in that case I should have waited longer at home and could have avoided the traffic but that call is situationally dependent.

I used to keep all of my supplies in the garage but people started seeing all the ammo and food and started asking question and joking about TEOTWAWKI. While this did not bother me it did make me realize that if something happened the first place they would come looking for is mine so I move my stuff under the house which is till easy to get to.

My current idea is to load a covered trailer with all my stuff and maybe to install a small window a/c unit to keep it cool in the winter time and to help keep the humid air out. Then if I need to leave I can grab the kiddies/wife/pics/papers and just hook up and go. I know this will limit mobility but unless we are talking Mad Max I don't see this as a mjor isuue.

What are your thoughts?

MarshallDodge
03-09-10, 15:44
While rebuilding carbs is somewhat of a lost art buying a prefuel injected vehicle with electronic ignition will still be your most reliable form of transportation. You can order a carb kit and keep it with the vehicle. The reason I am so focused on the carb is with our current ethanol based fuels that will be your weak point. Also it is mechanical and not electronic in nature so you should be able to find someone with enough skills to rebuild if you need to.

What are your thoughts?

Having a 1968 GTO and a 1964 Chris Craft, I can still rebuild a carburetor. Your are right about trying to keep them running with todays fuels. :mad:

Except for an EMP, my choice would definitely be fuel injection. More reliable and much better fuel economy which gives you longer range.

Ga Shooter
03-09-10, 16:05
Having a 1968 GTO and a 1964 Chris Craft, I can still rebuild a carburetor. Your are right about trying to keep them running with todays fuels. :mad:

Except for an EMP, my choice would definitely be fuel injection. More reliable and much better fuel economy which gives you longer range.

I agree that FI is more reliable and better fuel economy but I am going on the idea that if we cannot live at home;then parts replacement in case of failure will be difficult or impossible, but you can keep a carb going.

ETA: Got pics of the Goat and Chris Craft?

doorman
03-09-10, 16:18
First post in these boards... I plan to make it to a formal intro soon.I am a lurker and follow many boards such as this and the survival sites.

My understanding is this at least on the Bug Out Vehicle. A Bug Out Vehicle is just that, something for you to load up, jump in and move to a new position. As many authors and experts have stated before. Being mobile in a TEOTWAWKI is good for really only the starting phase. You want to get out of dodge and preferably farther away from the sheep.

Excluding a EMP a modern day vehicle is better for this, due to the above stated reasons but I don't see parts of maintenance being a issue. For the most part I am most likely like others on here that keep their daily driver and other vehicles in rather good condition. We do the regular work on it and make sure all the fluids and such are in good working order. As long as we do this then getting in our BOV and hauling tail for 200-1000 miles shouldn't be a problem when it comes to digital stuff. I see more of a failure in suspension or tires before any fuel injection problem.

I am currently building a BOV out of a 4x4 crew cab pickup and my first purchase after finishing and paying for the new suspension to deal with weight and off-road will be a new bumper and two extra tires/rims to go with my standard spare. Before my fuel injection goes I see my tank going empty, and my fuel tank is only to get my to my holding area where I will ride it out.

David
"doorman"

Nathan_Bell
03-09-10, 16:42
I saw several folks mentioning the range of their vehicles, all of them look entirely too high unless you get on the stick and are ahead of everyone.
If you normally get 20 mpg during your daily highway surface street commute, plan to get half of that. You will likely have to deal with traffic on a 4 lane and slow going if you take unfamiliar secondary roads.

Know what your vehicle will do. On the highway, most of us have a pretty good idea of the performance envelope of our vehicles. How many know what yours will do if you drop off the shoulder into a soft area at 10 mph? One of mine vehicles slows way down and wants to pull the other side in, another really doesn't notice, and the third tries to kill me. Not talking major offroading here, just stuff that can happen when driving on a crowded roadway in odd circumstances. Wish I could say I had planned ahead and worked to find out what the trucks do, two of the three I found out by chance, luckily avoided accidents.

Been a while since I read the entire thread, sorry if it was already covered, but make a practice run once in a while. Load up the chit and make it a weekend with your SO.

Iraq Ninja
03-09-10, 16:56
Nathan makes some good points.

Lots of people don't know how to correctly jump a curb, and that may well be the end of your bug out...

BTW, I have a 1999 Ford Explorer, Eddie Bauer, that needs a new engine. It is that, or pay too much to get the old one fixed. I hate to give up this wagon since it is still in good shape. What would be a good option for a replacement engine? It came with a v6, but can I upgrade it to a v8? I don't mind getting a high end engine either... my other car is a Mustang.

Ga Shooter
03-09-10, 17:35
Nathan makes some good points.

Lots of people don't know how to correctly jump a curb, and that may well be the end of your bug out...

BTW, I have a 1999 Ford Explorer, Eddie Bauer, that needs a new engine. It is that, or pay too much to get the old one fixed. I hate to give up this wagon since it is still in good shape. What would be a good option for a replacement engine? It came with a v6, but can I upgrade it to a v8? I don't mind getting a high end engine either... my other car is a Mustang.

In my opinion upgrading to a V8 is a real PITA because of the ECM and different sensor etc etc etc. I will PM you tomorrow from work with some phone numbers of the engine companies we use. They usually have warranties fo 3 years unlimited miles or 3 years 100,000 miles.

Nathan_Bell
03-09-10, 18:13
Nathan makes some good points.

Lots of people don't know how to correctly jump a curb, and that may well be the end of your bug out...

BTW, I have a 1999 Ford Explorer, Eddie Bauer, that needs a new engine. It is that, or pay too much to get the old one fixed. I hate to give up this wagon since it is still in good shape. What would be a good option for a replacement engine? It came with a v6, but can I upgrade it to a v8? I don't mind getting a high end engine either... my other car is a Mustang.

The 99 came with a 5.0 option. So swapping in a truck 302 should be relatively painless. Boneyard for the wiring harness, mounts, etc and FoMoCo for anything you need new.

Thomas M-4
03-09-10, 18:17
Nathan makes some good points.

Lots of people don't know how to correctly jump a curb, and that may well be the end of your bug out...

BTW, I have a 1999 Ford Explorer, Eddie Bauer, that needs a new engine. It is that, or pay too much to get the old one fixed. I hate to give up this wagon since it is still in good shape. What would be a good option for a replacement engine? It came with a v6, but can I upgrade it to a v8? I don't mind getting a high end engine either... my other car is a Mustang.

Just find a 5.0 explorer and swap out the whole drive train motor,trans and rear end.
The explorer 5.0 comes with GT-40P heads which are very desirable for factory cast iron heads.
The hard part will problable be trying to find a good doner explorer before all the mustang guys swoop in and take the motor.

Nathan_Bell
03-13-10, 08:40
Repairs of vehicles were mentioned up thread.

What parts / assemblies fail the most on your model vehicle? Are they things you can fix with your tool kit, or would it require a lift and a tech to fix it?

What tools are you carrying? I have too few in my vehicle and am currently reworking what I need to have and a way to carry them that keeps them organized and quiet. I hate mechanics roll type holders, but they seem to be the cheapest way to get the secure and quiet.

Neat thing I found while looking for organizing stuff.

http://www.macscustomtiedowns.com/product/TrailD-Vise/All

"Mac's Trail D-Vise make those on-the-trail repairs easier and more effective. Simply slide the D-Vise into your receiver, pin it and you have a stout bench vise in the middle of nowhere! Turns using your lugwrench or socket wrench, or better yet, the INCLUDED HANDLE that stows neatly on the side when not in use."

A bit of a facepalm moment on that one. I have seen and used big assed home/shop fabbed setups like this, but the stowage on them sucked.

MarshallDodge
03-14-10, 13:11
ETA: Got pics of the Goat and Chris Craft?
This is an old scanned image of the Goat sitting in front of a previous residence:
http://home.comcast.net/~bdkirk11/cars/gtolowres.jpg
I need to get some better pics.....

The Chris Craft:
http://home.comcast.net/~bdkirk11/chriscraft/front34small.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~bdkirk11/chriscraft/rear34small.jpg

Bulldog1967
03-14-10, 13:46
I think that one of the keys to flying under the radar when BFO is to look like everyone else.

That's why my Honda Odyssey Touring minivan (blue) is a discreet, but powerful option.

It is also my everyday work vehicle.

Both mid row seats can be ditched within seconds for more cargo space.

I am upgrading to the tow package soon to stash a bunch of MFCs.

http://www.sportomotoring.com/photos/heinhh23.jpg

Nathan_Bell
06-10-10, 07:51
Pickerd up the past two issues of this magazine
http://www.4wdtoyotaowner.com/

and it has a good bit of information and advertisements aimed at the expedition traveler.

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/

IS the place to go for seeing how these guys set up their rigs. Not that you want to carry 3/4 of a ton of gear everyday, but that magazine and that forum has given me some good idea.

Davesrb
06-10-10, 12:57
I don't subscribe to the bug out vehicle idea FOR ME, because I will be bugging in for any foreseeable situation. I live near Destin, Florida, between the Bay and the Gulf. The house I live in has weathered every storm for 30 years. I have never evacuated for any storm, and don't plan too. I think my plan covers me for natural disasters, and economic ones. I'm not too worried about zombies or invasions...yet!
Hurricane Opal taught me many things about what is important for an after a disaster vehicle. I think these lessons would pertain to someone "bugging out" also. Mainly never be without an off road capable vehicle with some ground clearance. A front mounted winch and chainsaw are also a must, for moving downed tree's so you can get out. After Opal I found that the only useful vehicle I owned was the '43 MB! Without it I would have been on foot for the 4 days it took for the water to dry up and for me to cut my way out.
My vehicle selection now for my bug in, after a disaster scenario is layered. A Jeep Unlimited, with good mud capable tires, a front mounted winch and on board air compressor. I also have a small ATV which comes in handy.
After a Hurricane one of the problems is always a fuel shortage. You don't want to fill your vehicle tank up with the fuel needed for a generator. Thus, my best idea (I think) to date. I have a heavily modified Yamaha utility golf cart. This would probably get the most use after a natural disaster. I have it set up with ATV shocks and off road tires, so it has 9 inches of road clearance, 6 Marine trolling motors, removed the speed governor. I can get about 17 mile range, tops out at 21 mph. Best of all, it hooks into my back up solar power system so it can be re charged in a day. For bugging in, where I need a vehicle to get me around and haul stuff shorter distances, but might not be able to get gas easily, this was my solution.

Davesrb

Oh, as a side note, many of my friend do head out when a storm hits. Without an off road capable vehicle it has take up to two weeks for them to be able to make it back to their house! For anyone thinking about having to hit the road in front of a storm, give that some thought. Also, from my friends who do evacuate, they talk of long, slow moving lines of traffic, gas stations out of gas and cars blocking traffic as they run out. If you can't get a 4 wheel drive, at least have some tires that will let you get through wet, muddy ditches to get around something.

arbninftry
06-10-10, 16:45
Anyone here plan on bugging out more than 800 miles?

My bug out is spot is 16 hours away, to NE Oklahoma. The family and a cabin are there. I started plotting routes, and honestly if the main route out of El Paso, TX is closed to me then my 16 hours becomes 20. I am in the process of getting an external tank for my diesel truck. If you have been watching the news lately, it has been getting more and more tense here. I do have an alternate spot 4 hours away in Arizona at the Mother-in-laws but the situation is really going to depend on where we go. Potentially Tombstone, AZ might not be much better than El Paso.
After the alternate tank is aquired, everything is already in 3 tuff boxs that are the must haves, other than All guns will be going with me when we go, which are in the safe. I also have a 12 foot box trailer with spare for other items if time is allowed. The problem we have in picking our routes, if you look at a map, El Paso is very secluded. There are only four ways in and out of town. I-10 East and West, State Highway 54 to Alamagordo, and up I-10 East you can catch another highway to Alberquerque. If you dont beat the rush here, side roads are limited, and through the desert is possible to get around some stuff, but there will be alot of people here trying to take your stuff to get out. So Time is our biggest planning factor. Holding up in your home is possible for awhile and the primary plan, but the hostilities here toward anyone not hispanic is getting worse. Especially when a BP Agent shoots a coyote that was throwing rocks, that was BTW 15 years old, laying low may not be possible. So I thank all of you on sharing your techniques, I have started refining my Load Plans, and believe my Load Plan will be a continual process of improvement.

Blstr88
06-13-10, 20:10
arbninftry - Youll love the external tank. I've got a 38 gallon diamond plate one in the bed of my 08 Cummins. When I've got the truck set to "economy" on the tuner, I get 19-22 MPG...assuming the lowest MPG, with my main tank and the auxiliary topped off I have a range of ~1350 miles.

And the best part is, since hardly anyone keeps there vehicles topped off every single day, even if I had to use the truck and only had 1/4 tank of gas, Id still have ~880 mile range, since the aux tank in the bed is always full. Those external tanks are awesome.

arbninftry
06-14-10, 08:58
arbninftry - Youll love the external tank. I've got a 38 gallon diamond plate one in the bed of my 08 Cummins. When I've got the truck set to "economy" on the tuner, I get 19-22 MPG...assuming the lowest MPG, with my main tank and the auxiliary topped off I have a range of ~1350 miles.

And the best part is, since hardly anyone keeps there vehicles topped off every single day, even if I had to use the truck and only had 1/4 tank of gas, Id still have ~880 mile range, since the aux tank in the bed is always full. Those external tanks are awesome.

Where did you pick it up? Tractor Supply Co. is the cheapest I have found so far, but did not know if there was someplace cheaper.
Thanks

M151A1
07-19-10, 14:42
I believe just about any bug out situation will fall into one of two basic scenarios. #1 is a temporary inconvenience, as in a localized natural disaster where help is available or on the way. #2 is full blown social/economic meltdown, as in no communication, no authority; basically total chaos with no end in sight. In scenario #1, basic preparation and a well maintained, reliable vehicle will probably suffice. Localized disasters are not that uncommon, so knowing what specific situations to prepare for in your area is fairly easy.

Scenario #2 is the one that worries me. A situation like this can be caused by many factors (war, disease, economic collapse), but this is a moot point because the situations you will have to deal with will be basically the same. People in general will panic, so in my mind the #1 priority is to separate yourself/family from other people as much as possible. This poses a major problem because everyone will head to the roads which will be almost immediately clogged with abandoned vehicles. Laying low and traveling cross country away from major roads/population centers seems to be the obvious solution, so that is what I'm outfitting my BOV for. I figure my BOV will serve me best by being able to go where no other vehicles can follow.

My BOV rig is a 1964 M-151 MUTT (military jeep). Being a military vehicle, it is already super reliable, easy to service, waterproof, and the ignition is hardened aginst EMP :D. I kept the engine basically original, but I converted it to run on propane for a few reasons. First, is range, 1 gal. of propane will get you further than 1 gal. of gas. Second, is longevity, compressed propane will last a lifetime; it never goes bad like gas. Third, is reliability, nothing to spill, no vents to let contaminents in, no carburator adjustments, and no fuel pump to go out. Finally and most importantly, is demand, people will be killing each other for that last gallon of gas. Propane won't immediately make you a target, as most vehicles run on gas/diesel.

I swapped the original independent suspension and axles for a Dana 44 and a 9" from a 1978 Ford F-150, both axles are spooled (locked all the time). The tires are 36" x 12.5" surplus Hummer Goodyears on double beadlock Hummer wheels that I re-centered to match the axle lug pattern. The wheels have surplus magnesium run-flat inserts, so I can run indefinately on 4 flat tires, especially because they were designed for a 10,000 pound Hummer. I designed the suspension for extreme articulation, and load carrying capability, but eventually I would like to outfit a small military jeep trailer to carry spare fuel/supplies. I will also fabricate a large removable roof rack for more storage. It isn't shown in the pics, but with the snorkle it can ford water up to 66" deep, basically if the driver can breath, the M151 is good to go.

If you would like to see the entire story of the Mutt, check out my build thread: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=805076

Feel free to comment/make suggestions as I'm always looking for ways to improve my bug-out plan and vehicle.



This is what it looked like when I got it. It was a rusted out pile I gave $500 for.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mutt/100_0255.jpg


Here it is lifted with the independent suspension. This setup didn't last long, but it was a fun weekend of destruction.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mutt/102_0241.jpg


Here it is in it's current state. It is a lot closer to being finished than it looks in these pics.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mutt/DSCN0072.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mutt/DSCN0043.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mutt/DSCN0045.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mutt/DSCN0053.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mutt/DSCN0058.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mutt/DSCN0061.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mutt/DSCN0068.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx62/custom500pics/Mutt/DSCN0069.jpg

Alpha Sierra
08-09-10, 17:07
In my part of the country it will be nearly impossible to drive off road (truly offroad). You will be constantly battling fences, hedges, and drainage ditches making passage painfully slow to impossible.

The best tool in my AO is a Delorme atlas and gazetteer, which shows every little road in the state. Ohio is lucky to have a huge network of county roads that make traveling across the state possible without hardly ever driving on a state, federal, or interstate route.

Those patchworks of country roads will become salvation as the sheeple clog the main arteries in no time flat.

Dale Gribble
08-09-10, 17:47
Ohio is lucky to have a huge network of county roads that make traveling across the state possible without hardly ever driving on a state, federal, or interstate route.

Those patchworks of country roads will become salvation as the sheeple clog the main arteries in no time flat.

And in most counties they are simple to navigate. Many counties have numbered roads going north-south and lettered roads going east-west. In Williams County for instance if you were at the intersection of county road 9 and county road k you would be 9 miles from the western border of the county (Indiana/Ohio state line) and 11 miles from the southern edge of the county.

buddy357
08-15-10, 12:42
My biggest decision is which vehicle to keep. After the divorce I ended up with a 03 excursion 4x4 6.0L and a 06 liberty 4x4 CRD. The both have pros/cons, but I have to get rid of one.

Besides, I am thinking more along the lines of a regional SHTF than TEOTWAKI. I dont feel the east coast is a place you want to be in case of TEOTWAKI, and I dont get to choose where I am stationed.

Dale Gribble
08-15-10, 13:44
Anybody else think procuring a horse might be a great option??

ColdDeadHands
08-15-10, 14:12
Anybody else think procuring a horse might be a great option??

I'd rather have a dirt bike. It's on my SHTF Shopping list actually. You only feed it when you use it and you don't have to clean up after it.

Dale Gribble
08-15-10, 15:03
I'd rather have a dirt bike. It's on my SHTF Shopping list actually. You only feed it when you use it and you don't have to clean up after it.

Dirt bikes require fuel you can't make yourself. That was kinda why I suggested a horse.

Thomas M-4
08-15-10, 16:15
Dirt bikes require fuel you can't make yourself. That was kinda why I suggested a horse.

If you got the land and fencing and willing to do the up keep shots, shoeing , saddling so on an so on because I know there others thing I forgot about. I lot of work goes into horses more than I am willing to do.

lonewolf21
08-15-10, 17:03
I was driving to work the other day and considered what gun would I have up front with me. I have a jeep Cherokee sport and it would be cramped with my family inside. Of course would have a pistol on me, but not having an sbr, I would probably favor my 870. Due to the good chance of some close in work. Off subject a bit, but it came to mind. Looking to upgrade to a Tacoma pretty soon. I do have several empty cargo bins ready if a bug out presents itself.

Dale Gribble
08-15-10, 17:10
If you got the land and fencing and willing to do the up keep shots, shoeing , saddling so on an so on because I know there others thing I forgot about. I lot of work goes into horses more than I am willing to do.

Which is why I said "procure" a horse. In a SHTF scenario you could easily (at least in this area) find abandoned horses, or maybe someone willing to part with a horse or two in exchange for ammo, food, etc.

Gramps
08-15-10, 17:37
Anybody else think procuring a horse might be a great option??

Not as fast, BUT a whole lot quieter. Hopefully fuel would be around depending on where and time of year, something to think about. For some it might not be a bad idea to get around horses and learn some about them. Never know what could happen, or need to happen.

No, IMO, it's not a bad idea.

Belmont31R
08-15-10, 18:04
A horse would be a poor choice of transportation. Id keep one around if I could only in case I had to eat the damn thing.


BTW I grew up on a horse ranch, and my parents used to show Arabians in competitions and whatnot. Horses require a lot of attention, constant maintenance, and most horses are not accustomed to gun fire. If you had to shoot off a horse that had never been around gun fire before you'd probably find yourself on your ass while your horse is making a b-line for the next county with all your shit still on it.


If you already have a ranch or something with a specific place to go that would be one thing but I wouldn't want to find an abandoned horse, and saddle it up just to have something to ride on. Maybe in time once things settle down, and there aren't a lot of threats. If you are in a high threat area horses are noisy, and too much to take care of at the same time as trying to keep yourself/family safe. They are dangerous, too, if you are not an experienced rider. You'd stand a good chance of having a family member hurt/injured either from them not being experienced enough, the horse stumbles on something, etc.

If you ever watch the show Mantracker horses are pretty limited in what type of terrain they can go through. IMO you are much better off on your own two feet, a few people who somewhat know what they are doing (and are trustworthy), and a place to go.

Tennvol12345
08-15-10, 18:15
I think it depends on where you are. I live just outside of DC and if SHTF there is no way I'm leaving. On a normal day it can take 2-3 hours to drive 10 miles around here. Since I work from home if something happens I'm loading up my truck (complete with ARB bumper), grabbing my armor, SBR, and spare mags and picking up my little one from daycare, then holding up in the house.

No special tactics here, if I have to drive through someone's yard or cut across a field then I'll do whatever I have to do. I've hit a deer at highway speeds with the ARB bumper and cut the deer in half, I'm pretty sure I could handle knocking a few cars out of the way. I keep pretty large emergency box, a go-bag, and a 3/4 full gas tank in the truck.

ST911
08-16-10, 12:00
Even in dense crowds and traffic, you can get around pretty easily and quickly on a small MC or dirtbike. A full tank and an extra couple of gallons strapped to it will get you a good distance.

To help with fuel concerns, get a multi-fuel model.

Unless you're a farmer/rancher already, horses are quite a bother, and aren't something for the casual owner unless you have hired help to maintain them.


I was driving to work the other day and considered what gun would I have up front with me. I have a jeep Cherokee sport and it would be cramped with my family inside. Of course would have a pistol on me, but not having an sbr, I would probably favor my 870. Due to the good chance of some close in work. Off subject a bit, but it came to mind. Looking to upgrade to a Tacoma pretty soon. I do have several empty cargo bins ready if a bug out presents itself.

In a space-limited SUV or other vehicle such as the Cherokee, sew up a side-break scabbard and strap it to the rear of the driver or passenger seat. Hides in plain sight and can be made to look like other things or integrated with an existing seat cover.

Dale Gribble
08-16-10, 12:26
In a space-limited SUV or other vehicle such as the Cherokee, sew up a side-break scabbard and strap it to the rear of the driver or passenger seat. Hides in plain sight and can be made to look like other things or integrated with an existing seat cover.

Not sure how similar the seats are but they make these MOLLE seat covers for Wranglers....

http://www.4wd.com/productdetails.aspx?groupID=545

lonewolf21
08-16-10, 15:38
Thanks for posting that. The Cherokee and wrangler seats appear to be the same. I'll look into these.

Dale Gribble
08-16-10, 16:26
Thanks for posting that. The Cherokee and wrangler seats appear to be the same. I'll look into these.

Should work fine. This page (http://www.4wd.com/jeep-parts.aspx?plID=1172) says they fit all models, too bad the rear seat one only fits TJ, YJ, & CJ's.

ctrmass
08-18-10, 19:30
I've got a diesel 4x4 extended cab pickup. It holds 100 gallons of diesel, the engine is "multi fuel" so it'll run on kero, JP-4 JP-8 diesel #1 #2 home heating oil (very popular around here) and veggie oil.
I put an ENORMOUS "get the **** outta the way" bumper on the front. It's been tested on a dodge caravan. Works good.:sarcastic:
It's only the wife 3.5 yo and me. No such thing as SBR's etc here, so I havent decided which long gun would ride. Most likley whatever I have the most ammo for and would be the handiest.
I have a minumum BOB packed. I have to rethink this. A very min first aid kit, fire making stuff, 2 o 3 ponchos, and water tabs.

I also have a 32' camper but I dont think this would be of much use.

Edit: Got a 6 yo german shepherd. She comes.

Nathan_Bell
08-19-10, 08:53
Even in dense crowds and traffic, you can get around pretty easily and quickly on a small MC or dirtbike. A full tank and an extra couple of gallons strapped to it will get you a good distance.

To help with fuel concerns, get a multi-fuel model.

Unless you're a farmer/rancher already, horses are quite a bother, and aren't something for the casual owner unless you have hired help to maintain them.



In a space-limited SUV or other vehicle such as the Cherokee, sew up a side-break scabbard and strap it to the rear of the driver or passenger seat. Hides in plain sight and can be made to look like other things or integrated with an existing seat cover.

If you are going with a dual purpose MC you had better plan on taking the alternative routes that the vehicle offers you and staying the hell away from primary routes.

a1fabweld
08-31-10, 22:57
My BO vehicle is my work truck. Super Duty 7.3 Diesel , crew cab, 4wd, slightly lifted with all terrains, & my 500 amp diesel welder/19kw generator in the back. Between the truck & generator I can carry 55 gals of diesel. I have an extra electric fuel pump with 10' of rubber hose for transfering fuel from the truck to the generator or the other way around. Tool boxes full of cutting & welding equipment & quite a bit of storage. Soon to come is a beefy plate front bumper with a winch.

Redneck19
09-16-10, 17:07
A horse would be a poor choice of transportation. Id keep one around if I could only in case I had to eat the damn thing.


BTW I grew up on a horse ranch, and my parents used to show Arabians in competitions and whatnot. Horses require a lot of attention, constant maintenance, and most horses are not accustomed to gun fire. If you had to shoot off a horse that had never been around gun fire before you'd probably find yourself on your ass while your horse is making a b-line for the next county with all your shit still on it.


If you already have a ranch or something with a specific place to go that would be one thing but I wouldn't want to find an abandoned horse, and saddle it up just to have something to ride on. Maybe in time once things settle down, and there aren't a lot of threats. If you are in a high threat area horses are noisy, and too much to take care of at the same time as trying to keep yourself/family safe. They are dangerous, too, if you are not an experienced rider. You'd stand a good chance of having a family member hurt/injured either from them not being experienced enough, the horse stumbles on something, etc.

If you ever watch the show Mantracker horses are pretty limited in what type of terrain they can go through. IMO you are much better off on your own two feet, a few people who somewhat know what they are doing (and are trustworthy), and a place to go.

This. You have to work them pretty much daily to keep them trained. A relative refers to them as "d---d hay burners".

Von Rheydt
09-17-10, 09:44
Moved

Keith E.
09-17-10, 12:01
Just stumbled onto this thread but will be back. Picking up good tips and will try to leave a few also.

Thanks, Keith

TXLowflyer
09-18-10, 02:40
During Sept. 2005 I was flying a helicopter for KRIV/Fox 26 in Houston,TX and we were covering the largest evacuation ever in Texas if not in the US.

Every highway and secondary road was packed. Even with Law Enforcement allowing the southbound lanes of I45 to travel northbound,traffic was lucky to move at 3 to 5MPH in most places. They only things really moving were motorcycles

For me if I would either leave as early as possible or just shelter in place. If I had to "Bug Out" I would try to do so after the fact.

We evacuated to San Antonio and flew back to West Houston hours after Rita made landfall. Hardly anything was moving after the fact.

I talked with a couple latter in the day in Huntsville,TX north of Houston. They told me it took them 18 hrs to move 50 miles and that they ran out of gas along the side of the road.

Like I said i think I would shelter in place and be prepared to move after the event if needed.

rat31465
09-18-10, 10:04
I recently purcahsed a used but not abused Dodge Durango SLT 4X4with a 4.7 V-8...as my families Bug Out Vehicle. I like the fact that it is a four wheel drive (I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it)
Since my bug out plans now include the addition of my two adult daughters and a 3-month old as well as a 3-year old Grandson...the 8-passenger capability is a huge plus as well.
I intend to add a luggage rack as well as an addition of a Hitch Haul so I do not have to depend upon a trailer to carry essentials.
As for Highway Tactics...I am very familiar with every back road and cow path leading out of my area of town. I happen to live within 1-mile of the city limits, and two miles of two major highway arteries.
The only real choke points I forsee that could create problems are the Water resevoir for one of the Power Plants, that would require crossing via state controlled bridges.
As for firearms...the Glock 17 and S&W Model 13 in .357 would be in the center console...as both my daughters know how to shoot I would keep the 870 Special Purpose loaded with slugs and one of the carbines within easy reach.
I'll add one last thing for those who drive Vehicles with an Automatic Transmission....Install a quality Transmission Cooler to the vehicle...In the long run you will be happy that you did.

NavyDavy55
09-18-10, 12:32
I live in an area which is pretty hilly with lots of bridges spanning large rivers. I'd be concerned with traveling these bridges during a SHTF situation. Just not sure how safe they would be structurally and also from ambush. For me, a boat may be a good alternative for bugging out?

Von Rheydt
10-13-10, 11:30
Just for interest.

There was an accident on the I-4 yesterday, northbound, around the Maitland area, two lanes closed one still open, just before rush hour.

It was taking people 1.5 hours to move around 8 miles from central Orlando to the point after the accident.

All the side roads leading to the alternative, 17/92, were snarled up, as was the 17/92.

And that was probably less than a quarter of the cars that would hit the road if something big happened.

daddyusmaximus
10-04-15, 14:33
Let's bring this thread back to life... Lockers make a lot of difference in rugged terrain. Here we see me going up a steep hill at the Badlands Off Road Park. At first I thought it was nothing because it has concrete poured down it. Turns out the sandy mud that was all over it from previous vehicles made it impossible. Once I hit the locker switches (I have dual ARB Air Lockers) we were golden. I then had to use my 9,000 lb truck as a winch anchor for my buddy who's Jeep did not have lockers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUlEC9D6brQ

steyrman13
10-04-15, 22:36
Let's bring this thread back to life... Lockers make a lot of difference in rugged terrain. Here we see me going up a steep hill at the Badlands Off Road Park. At first I thought it was nothing because it has concrete poured down it. Turns out the sandy mud that was all over it from previous vehicles made it impossible. Once I hit the locker switches (I have dual ARB Air Lockers) we were golden. I then had to use my 9,000 lb truck as a winch anchor for my buddy who's Jeep did not have lockers.



What all upgrades have you done to your f250 and what year is it? You can PM me if you like.
TIA

daddyusmaximus
10-04-15, 22:49
1999 F-250 Super Duty. Here is a build thread. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=332590