View Full Version : Lake City 62gr .223?
Hi guys. Hoping you can give me the scoop on some ammo I purchased. A couple weeks ago at a gun show I picked up another 500 rounds of ammo. Admittedly, I got a couple of phone calls right as I was about to purchase it, got a little side-tracked, and didn't necessarily think through all the details. Now I'm curious exactly what I have.
When it comes to Lake City ammo what I'm familiar with is XM193 55gr. 5.56 and the green tip XM855 62gr 5.56. Now the guy had 500 round bags of 55gr and 62gr but both sets of bags had signs laying on top that said .223 and I've only seen LC 5.56 offered before. Also the 62gr doesn't have the green tip. Does LC even make .223? Do you think its really 5.56 and the guy just either didn't know or thought people at the show wouldn't now the difference so labeled it .223? Maybe I bought reloaded brass instead of the real deal? At work and don't have ammo or a camera with me but the case headstamps are marked with LC, a nato cross and 08
I'm hoping its real deal 62gr 5.56 and for whatever reason the tips aren't painted green. I can't be super pissed though if I got the wrong thing cause its my own fault for getting sidetracked. If it was 5.56 mislabled as .223 then that's cool too because it won't be a problem in my DD. Only thing is I have some buddies I shoot with that I know have .223 chambers in some Bushy's, etc. and I'd hate for me to think its .223, them to get hold of one of my mags and it cause problems or bust their rifle.
If the bullets aren’t panted green and it came in bags then I don’t think you got real Lake City. Think about it. Why would someone take the ammo out of the factory packaging and put it in a bag?
You make a good point. So you're thinking fired LC brass that's been cleaned up and reloaded? I want to say I grabbed the place's card but naturally I can't find it. I hope I didn't toss it. I'd love to call and find out if its some homebrew.
So can you confirm that LC only loads to 5.56 or do they also make .223 at all?
NIB factory Federal AE has been known to show up using LC brass with crimped primers and all. Rounds sold at a gunshow in plastic bags could be anything. A chronograph may or may not point you in one direction or another. The headstamp on brass does not always tell the complete story, especially in the case of LC brass.
You can get new never fired L.C. brass so it may not be a “reload" in the since that it has been fired.
Anytime you buy ammo that is not in the factory package, it is suspect.
You can get new never fired L.C. brass so it may not be a “reload" in the since that it has been fired.
Anytime you buy ammo that is not in the factory package, it is suspect.
Absolutely true. Buyer beware. Heck, I've reloaded pulled green tip back into LC cases.
Are the primers crimped? That's the first thing I would look at. If they are. They would be factory. If they're not. Well, they could be a lot of things.
goodoleboy
09-07-09, 08:38
You can purchase surplus M885 (62 gr. steel penetrator core) projectiles for handloading that are not painted. To my understanding, the green paint is applied after the bullets are seated. Having Lake City in bags makes me want to think hand-loads.
However, none of the above info would explain the .223 sign on the bags, unless the guy who loaded them loaded them to .223 pressure range.
Let us know what you find out.
However, none of the above info would explain the .223 sign on the bags, unless the guy who loaded them loaded them to .223 pressure range.
Let us know what you find out.
The reason is a lot of people don’t know the difference between the two.
Dirty McCurdy
09-07-09, 19:14
The reason is a lot of people don’t know the difference between the two.
Yep please inform me the difference:D.
No seriously, does the ammo have crimps on the primer as stated above?
Ok, after looking at a few more of the rounds they are head stamped 05-08, not just 08 like I said earlier. The primers are also not crimped. Ok so here's the crazy part. Never found the guys card; probably went through the washing machine or something:rolleyes::). So I could report back to you guys accurately, I went looking for pictures of LC ammo crimps for comparison-think some companies have some kind of ring between the primer and the brass instead of a notched indention (what I would actually consider a crimp) so wanted to make sure. In searching for pics I ran randomly across these links:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/958218399/Non-Guns/Ammunition/5_56_Lake_City_Bulk_Ammo_500_round_bags.htm
http://www.gunsamerica.com/962409446/Non-Guns/Ammunition/5_56_Lake_City_Bulk_Ammo_1000_round_bags.htm
No pictures but recognize the sellers name and this is actually what I purchased. Its got a number so I'm going to try and call tomorrow. Not much in the details section but he makes a point to say its not crimped. Here its labeled 5.56. What do you think?
lanceriley
09-09-09, 19:00
this is interesting.. id like to know too
Ok, called the number I found in the links above and sure enough it was the same guy. He gave me the following info about the ammo. Apparently he buys in bulk from someone we'll call guy#2 in like 5000-10000 rd batches and then breaks them up into 500 rd bags. Guy#2 lives in a somewhat reasonable proximity to the Lake City plant and gets SS109 bullets and brass from them (You guys will have to verify for me if its even possible to get these components directly from LC or other source, I don't know). He then loads them .223 specs, no primer crimp, and obviously he doesn't take the time to paint them.
I have no real way to verify any of this--other than the brass is obviously LC--but the guy was nice enough and told me to let him know if I had any problems. He said the only problem reported to him was one guy who had some unspecified issue with it in a .223 bolt action of again unspecified specs.
The problem with this is. You don't know who is doing the loading. It's like buying reloads at a gun show.
Texasflyboy
09-14-09, 21:02
It's like buying reloads at a gun show.
Yep. Nobody makes ammo like Lake City.
Pretty much a world of difference between OEM M193 & M885 and anything else, including someone's loads using surplus LC components.
I've been reading the MIL Spec for M855 this week, and so far, there are over 197 separate line items that each round of ammunition have to pass before it gets the M193 or M855 MILSPEC. Fail just one and your round doesn't graduate.
I've a bit more to read, but that's what I've noted so far. The markings on the packaging are another whole publication to read (35+ pages).
I just found the original ordnance drawings for the M193 & M80 projectiles, Brass, and primers.... very interesting to see that the last revision update to M80 projectile was in 1969 or so.
Even more surprising is the ordnance note that batch lots are required to show year of manufacture. So that is another nail in the coffin on the idea that rounds with previous years stamps are used in a following year. The spec shows that year of manufacture must coincide with the headstamp marking. This may explain some of the recent Lake City 5.56 cases appearing on the market as surplus. We're in 2009 and they can't load them because they're stamped LC 08 (my opinion based on a read of the Mil Std).
Milspec M855 ammo is marked LC with a two-digit year. There will also be the NATO circle/cross stamp as well.
Regardless this ammo is still loaded by some "guy" and therefore not on par with factory ammo IMHO.
Ok, after looking at a few more of the rounds they are head stamped 05-08, not just 08 like I said earlier. The primers are also not crimped. Ok so here's the crazy part. Never found the guys card; probably went through the washing machine or something:rolleyes::). So I could report back to you guys accurately, I went looking for pictures of LC ammo crimps for comparison-think some companies have some kind of ring between the primer and the brass instead of a notched indention (what I would actually consider a crimp) so wanted to make sure. In searching for pics I ran randomly across these links:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/958218399/Non-Guns/Ammunition/5_56_Lake_City_Bulk_Ammo_500_round_bags.htm
http://www.gunsamerica.com/962409446/Non-Guns/Ammunition/5_56_Lake_City_Bulk_Ammo_1000_round_bags.htm
No pictures but recognize the sellers name and this is actually what I purchased. Its got a number so I'm going to try and call tomorrow. Not much in the details section but he makes a point to say its not crimped. Here its labeled 5.56. What do you think?
Milspec M855 ammo is marked LC with a two-digit year. There will also be the NATO circle/cross stamp as well.
Regardless this ammo is still loaded by some "guy" and therefore not on par with factory ammo IMHO.
Its got the 2 digit year and nato cross stamp on the bottom. As you said though bottom line is its still not factory and of basically unknown origin, loading, performance, etc. Already chalked it up to a live and learn experience. At least not as expensive as some mistakes I've made;) Gonna shoot it up this weekend probably but definitely won't be buying any more. Thanks for all the info guys.
Ok, called the number I found in the links above and sure enough it was the same guy. He gave me the following info about the ammo. Apparently he buys in bulk from someone we'll call guy#2 in like 5000-10000 rd batches and then breaks them up into 500 rd bags. Guy#2 lives in a somewhat reasonable proximity to the Lake City plant and gets SS109 bullets and brass from them (You guys will have to verify for me if its even possible to get these components directly from LC or other source, I don't know). He then loads them .223 specs, no primer crimp, and obviously he doesn't take the time to paint them.
I have no real way to verify any of this--other than the brass is obviously LC--but the guy was nice enough and told me to let him know if I had any problems. He said the only problem reported to him was one guy who had some unspecified issue with it in a .223 bolt action of again unspecified specs.
scary stuff. I would pull some of the bullets and weigh the powder just to see what you got as far as variance from round to round.
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