View Full Version : Progressive Press setup
NinjaMedic
09-03-09, 17:16
I have reloaded ammo in the past and understand the process but I am not up to speed on the current presses and other equipment. I am planning to start getting into IDPA and IDPSA more seriously as is my girlfriend and thus I cannot afford to keep meeting my ammo needs long term with commercial production ammo. I want to get a robust multi stage progressive reloader that I can put out relatively high volume 9mm and .40 FMJ target ammunition with excellent reliability and acceptable accuracy. I do not plan on working up rifle rounds in the progressive press. What setup would yall recomend for fufilling my needs? Thanks!
oregonshooter
09-03-09, 19:32
No Rifle reloading = Dillion 550
Reloading Rifle = Dillon 650
There is no substitute.
Working with the Dillon presses, either the RL 550B or the XL 650 would work for you. Depends what your budget is, how many rounds a session you want to do, how many a month, etc.
I'm sorta on the fence, I've got two 550's (one from Chad @ e-guns no less) and I just got a used 650 and I'm having a hard time 'loving' it as much as the 550s. It runs just fine and is a neat piece of gear (like most Dillon gear). But...
I've heard complaints on the 650 about mashed primers setting off the whole tube (from more than one reputable source), and the nice thing about the 550 is that if I start a stroke and realize something is wrong I can lower it and correct the issue. I can't do that with the 650. It will auto-index to the next station and possible dump an unfinished round or hang in the middle of the loading cycle.
Also setting it up is kind of a pain, since getting just one piece of brass in is kind of a ordeal. I'm sure it's a great setup, I'm just at the 'I dunno' stage with it.
I'm sorta on the fence, I've got two 550's (one from Chad @ e-guns no less) and I just got a used 650 and I'm having a hard time 'loving' it as much as the 550s. It runs just fine and is a neat piece of gear (like most Dillon gear). But...
Nothing wrong with the 550s and if they work for you, that is what I would use.
I have both and use both.
I've heard complaints on the 650 about mashed primers setting off the whole tube (from more than one reputable source),
Interesting, have never heard this. I would be interested in how this could happen. Which primer is getting mashed? The primer punch to push the primer in to the brass is not near the primer magazine on either press so if a primer gets mashed when seating the most that can happen is that one primer.
Unless I am misunderstanding.
and the nice thing about the 550 is that if I start a stroke and realize something is wrong I can lower it and correct the issue. I can't do that with the 650. It will auto-index to the next station and possible dump an unfinished round or hang in the middle of the loading cycle.
Yes I like that bit. People moan about the non auto indexing on the 550 but I like the idea that if I screw up I can fix it and continue without restarting. I second you on that!
However, for mass loading the 650 does beat the 550 on volume so I use that. However, I have not used the 550 case feed system and that may narrow the gap on throughput/volume of the 550 vs the 650. My story on my presses is long and boring and needless to say I picked up the 650s 11 years ago before there was a 550 case feed.
Also setting it up is kind of a pain, since getting just one piece of brass in is kind of a ordeal. I'm sure it's a great setup, I'm just at the 'I dunno' stage with it.
Actually you can just stick the brass on kind of like you do your 550. Between the station 1 locator and the actual shell plate is enough room to come in at an angle and slide it in.
For the OP, either will work fine. You can add a case feed in to the 550 (pistol calibers only) to get the throughput and still have the 550 "advantages" spoken of above.
oregonshooter
09-04-09, 01:11
I've been reloading .45ACP, 9mm on my 650XL since 1994 and have the hopper setup but not auto primer. I can load 400 rounds per hour at a smooth pace in pistol calibers kicking out one round with every pull of the handle.
Never heard of mashed primers, never had an issue. I can feel the primers seat and the system has a spring on the pusher to prevent over mashing. You gotta not be paying attention to mash primers!
I've loaded .223, .308 and 30-06 on it also, but anything over .223 practice ammo I go single stage reloading as it saves change over time, which takes about 30-40 minutes on the XL650 for me if going sm/lg primers or back.
Either press is a great setup, the XL650 is faster and easier and can do rifle if you want to. For pistol calibers (like 1000 a week) I would pick the 650 over the 550.
If you feel something go wrong the 650, stop, remove the shells/bullets from the index plate and double check your charge if need be. Not that big of a deal, but you should remove all cases/rounds and start fresh unless you are 100% sure where you are in the index cycle now. In time you will be able to back up steps easily, but not as easy as flipping the index back like the 550.
Either press is a great setup, the XL650 is faster and easier and can do rifle if you want to. For pistol calibers (like 1000 a week) I would pick the 650 over the 550.
Just so there is no confusion, both the XL 650 and the RL 550B can do rifles. In fact the RL 550B can do rifles that the XL 650 cannot, but we are talking super long monster cartridges like 460 Weatherby, where the XL 650 auto indexing starts to move the shell plate before the case is out of the die. Since the RL 550B is manual indexed you don't have this issue. But most people don't load those Monster Cartridges anyway.
Chad
eguns.com
oregonshooter
09-04-09, 01:21
Good catch Chad.
I meant that the 650 to me shines in pistol calibers for speed/volume but can do rifles also. Beyond plinking .223 I would not bother though.
The 550 is a better rifle setup with pistol ability and the 650 is a better pistol setup with rifle ability IMO.
Each person has preferences. You will find people who swear by the 650 for their match rifle ammo for high power and service rifle competition (of course they have modified their routine to fit the presses strong points). And people as we see here who prefer it mainly for pistol. Each person find their own comfort zone. There is no perfect answer.
I use the 1050 for 223 practice ammo (mainly since I had one as a local demo and familiarity unit ;-) -- I do the trimming on the 650 even when the 1050 is used to load
I use the 650 for 223 specialty ammo in qty (things like 75/77 gr stuff)
I use the 650 for any rifle (308, 6.8 spc, etc) that I want done in large QTY. Meaning 1000 or more at a sitting.
I use the 650 for my 9mm and 40 s&w in volume.
I use the 550 for precision 308 (since I don't load that en masse), 6.5x55, 303 and other low volume rifle that I do. Also 44 mag, 480 ruger, 45 acp (I don't shoot a lot of 45) etc are done on the 550.
If I did not have the 650 or 1050 available to me, I would not hesitate to do all of the above on the 550. I would probably stick a case feed on for doing the volume pistols. (I cheat though and have a 550 set up in eacg primer size and a 650 in each primer size as well so I don't have to change it over, and if I did have to change it over, meaning the 650, I would probably buy the complete primer system as it is easier to change over the whole unit instead of converting the included unit over with the parts that it comes with to do so -- long story on how my posse of Dillons came to be)
I will be using the Lee Classic single stage with 50BMG stuff for 50BMG when I get the box opened up... It has been sitting here for 2 years unopened due to moving 2 years ago and then lack of time. The only piece of LEE gear that I will be owning, besides some factory crimp dies.
The primer which is being "mashed" by the punch on a 650 and setting off a chain up into the tube has been documented on the BE forums. The disc does not provide enough isolation from the next primer in the chain to the tube and hence the chain goes up and into the tube. That said, steady pressure on a primer is not what sets them off. It's a fast impact that sets them off. That's the reason that some folks feel it is safe to, and actually do, decap brass with live primers. Slamming the handle on primers in the quest for speed isn't a particularly comforting way to handle primers to me. I've been loading on a 650 for a long time with no problems, but I'm not slamming the handle in either direction in an effort to go fast. A 650 goes plenty fast just using the casefeed tube, and even faster using the casefeeder so inattention to technique in an effort to go faster is not a good solution and usually leads to lots of problems on any press.
MarshallDodge
09-04-09, 09:15
I've been loading on a 650 for a long time with no problems, but I'm not slamming the handle in either direction in an effort to go fast. A 650 goes plenty fast just using the casefeed tube, and even faster using the casefeeder so inattention to technique in an effort to go faster is not a good solution and usually leads to lots of problems on any press.
I think you are on the right track, just take it slow and smooth
I have a 550B that has given me years of good service at about 2500 rounds a year. I use it for a pistol as well as 223, 308, and 30-06. The rifle calibers are sized on a RCBS Rock Chucker then I trim them with a Lee kit.
The primer which is being "mashed" by the punch on a 650 and setting off a chain up into the tube has been documented on the BE forums. The disc does not provide enough isolation from the next primer in the chain to the tube and hence the chain goes up and into the tube. That said, steady pressure on a primer is not what sets them off. It's a fast impact that sets them off. That's the reason that some folks feel it is safe to, and actually do, decap brass with live primers. Slamming the handle on primers in the quest for speed isn't a particularly comforting way to handle primers to me. I've been loading on a 650 for a long time with no problems, but I'm not slamming the handle in either direction in an effort to go fast. A 650 goes plenty fast just using the casefeed tube, and even faster using the casefeeder so inattention to technique in an effort to go faster is not a good solution and usually leads to lots of problems on any press.
interesting. Guess I've always been doing it "right" in making deliberate and smooth motions. You can go fast doing so without impacting primers.
oregonshooter
09-04-09, 18:19
You can unload a gun without flipping the round into the air and trying to catch it also, but that is not the IPSC way. Complacency leads to lack of respect which leads to accidents. Shooting and reloading are both areas I have too much repect for to hotdog or be careless.
YMMV
The MANUAL indexing of the 550 is the ONLY way I'd load. Those little hickups are inherent in reloading and it is indeed nice to be able to fix an issue and keep on.
about reloading .223 on a progressive press. is it not necessary to check for OAL on the fired case and trim to length? not critical?
about reloading .223 on a progressive press. is it not necessary to check for OAL on the fired case and trim to length? not critical?
What would lead you to believe that? A press is a press, regardless of it's method of operation. Reloading principles, whether on a single stage, turret, or progressive are the same. You may be able to trim using an unused hole on a turret or progressive, but if you're not measuring your brass and occasionally trimming to the correct length, then you're going to eventually either hurt your equipment or yourself. Where you trim, on press or off press makes no difference, but it still has to be done from time to time.
about reloading .223 on a progressive press. is it not necessary to check for OAL on the fired case and trim to length? not critical?
Most reloaders resize and decap on a completely separate operation. A lot of brass requires crimp removal anyway. So unless you have that Dillon 1050, you're progressive rifle reloading isnt done all in one pass like pistol ammo.
I reload from my bags of resized, cleaned, decrimped, trim(if needed), and primed brass.
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