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Outlander Systems
09-06-09, 19:06
Everyone's idea of a disaster is a variable one. For the sake of discussion, lets assume disaster will involve some or all of the following:

1) Prolonged lack of utilities (Power, Water, NG, etc.)
2) Limited LEO support
3) Nonfunctioning local, state, or national government (dependent upon the scope of the disaster)
4) Limited communications
5) Difficulty in resupply for food, batteries, clothes, meds, etc.

The above being "established", what, in the event of an emergency will you use as a primary, or "General Purpose" firearm? Is it something you currently have? Something you'd like to assemble or acquire? What do you see as your main source of threats? What's the intended purpose of said weapon? What accessories and modifications would you make to this weapon? Would you change your choices, if you knew it was intended to be an "emergency" weapon?

My perspective is as follows:

As a civilian, the bulk of my training, and the bulk of my efforts need to be applied to the Semi-Automatic pistol, due to it being the most likely to be deployed weapon system in my daily routine. That being said, I've always considered the M4/AR platform to be the weapon to go to in the event of some sort of rapid restructuring of civilised life.

I recently acquired a weapon that, to me, would be a much better system for my envisioned needs for when the glass gets broken, and the long-gun comes out.

Because I consider the likely deployment of a semi-auto, box-fed, shoulder-fired system to take place some sort of cataclysmic event, I'm trying to configure it to operate under the following:

1) No resupply for parts
2) Limited ability to clean frequently
3) STANAG magazine-compatibility - Within the M4/AR family
4) Batteryless optic
5) High-efficiency weaponlight (again, due to resupply issues)
6) Reliability
7) Reliability

What stock would you consider the most practical for a disaster situation? What grip? What upgrades/modifications to the operating system would you perform?

I'm working on this right now, but other than the bone-stock carbine and the optic, I'm lacking the rest.

In short, describe your ultimate "Disaster Blaster". Tell us the what, and tell us the why. It doesn't have to be an M4. It could be a 10/22, or a Breech-loader with an EOTech.

geminidglocker
09-06-09, 19:17
This is gonna be a fun one. Popcorn anybody?:p

Thomas M-4
09-06-09, 19:32
I am assuming when you say no resupply for parts includes no spare parts in hand.
First thought would be an AK but it does not take AR-Mags.
Second thought would be a Galil with an AR- mag adapter.
It would have to be an original imported Galil the ones being made by century arms are hit or miss and they do not have chrome lined barrels. If you could find a IMI chromelined Galil barrel and a good gunsmith that could build a good Galil.

Other choices KAC SR-15E3 , FN scar and Noveske N-4 .

MIKE G
09-06-09, 20:12
.......

RogerinTPA
09-06-09, 20:52
I'd have to say any of my AR platforms. Everyone is not equipped equally, so I shouldn't have to expect to be relived of my stash and be on a level playing field as my neighbors. I have enough spare parts, ammo and mags on hand, plus the commonality of the ARs to kit up others if required. Backed up by my AK of course.;)

Outlander Systems
09-06-09, 21:09
I am assuming when you say no resupply for parts includes no spare parts in hand.
First thought would be an AK but it does not take AR-Mags.
Second thought would be a Galil with an AR- mag adapter.
It would have to be an original imported Galil the ones being made by century arms are hit or miss and they do not have chrome lined barrels. If you could find a IMI chromelined Galil barrel and a good gunsmith that could build a good Galil.

Other choices KAC SR-15E3 , FN scar and Noveske N-4 .

In terms of resupply for parts, I meant if something goes down, and you don't have spares on hand, forget it. Having spare parts on hand is an absolutely excellent idea. Not doing so would be foolish if readying for the worst. At the least I'd like to have a spare receiver extension spring and a LPK laying around.

I decided on going the piston route, at the advisement of some associates.

Originally I had scoffed at, mocked, and bemoaned the Ruger SR-556, but objectivity took over and through several factors, I have changed my tune.

I wanted an indirect impingement system that, was designed from the ground up within/around the system, not a drop-in.

From a buddy, whom I consider trustworthy, I have heard nothing but positive reports on his SR-556. This is what caused me to bypass my initial bias, and steered me towards "just doing it".

I started a thread elsewhere on what fixes/enhancements can be done to improve the functioning. Carrier tilt seems to have not been solved by any of the manufacturers, so one of Seth's buffers is absolutely necessary. Possibly some trigger-polishing by the 'Smith is in order.

A different endplate is necessary. I think, for a survival-smokewagon, or Disaster-Blaster, a two-point sling makes a lot more sense. Despite being more used to, and comfortable with a Single-Point, I foresee more walking/carrying than door-kicking/bad-guy-hosing, so the two-point route seems more prudent. Something I definitely need to look into (optimal placement of mounts, two-point sling options, etc.) I have never really been a user of two-point slings, so it's definitely an area I need to get down and dirty with, before just buying stuff.

A new grip (the Hogue is okay, but I've never used anything but MIADs and MOEs) is pretty much mandatory as well. I'm debating whether the MOE or the MIAD is a better call for a "survival" long-gun. The MOE's solid-piece construction is appealing, and being a non A2-style nub frontstrap/medium backstrap type of dude, it makes even more sense. I've been wanting to give the Tangodown grip a whirl, but having never laid hands on it, I don't know what to expect.

I'm considering the ACS stock for this setup, mostly for the onboard storage. I've had the UBR, CTR, and the MOE stocks, and haven't had issues with any. I don't really want to do a UBR for this setup.

A weaponlight is something that has been vexing me as well. I'm seriously not sure which route to go down on this issue, as of yet.

A big part of me wants to get the new M952V from SF, but it's not the most efficient option, and if I have to hump this thing, ounces are pounds. The other option I'm considering is the VTAC light. I've had the X300, and I don't fully trust the mount on a long-gun. On a pistol, I don't believe there's anything to worry about, but I don't have 100% faith in the mount itself. On a rifle, I envision too many situations that could create a prying "fulcrum effect" to snap the mount on the X300. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't want to take that chance. The one plus to the Millennium-Series lights is that I have nothing but faith in their robustness.

I'm still brainstorming on how I'd like to outfit this thing to weather any potential storm. As well, I'm still turning the wheels on potential system upgrades to improve reliability.

6933
09-06-09, 22:51
I'm seriously considering putting an S&B scope on a 6920. There are several highly respected trainers that go this route; at least occasionally. The more I think about it, the more I see the practicality of an AR with a 1.5 or 2 base scope. Situational awareness shouldn't be affected. Easy transition from CQB to 100yds.

Got the spare parts under control. What I would like is to take an excellent armorer's course. I would also like to take a carbine course using the S&B just to make sure it works for me. Hell, this is just the tip of the iceberg. So much to consider. Got in from Savannah an hour ago so brain is not at peak. Fly to Maine early tomorrow. Will have to check back with complete list of specifics.

Good thread idea Landlord. Happy Labor Day everyone!

zushwa
09-07-09, 03:12
Well, this might sound simplistic, but I would take any of my AR's, or any of my Glocks. I have 1 AK, but everything else is the latter. I only use quality parts and brands and I have plenty of ancillary items for support. I've also have plenty of 5.56 and 9mm. Most importantly, I've got a bunch of training on both platforms.

If I were to list the features of a platform it would be reasonable compactness, a white light, and for a long gun some kind of optic with magnification.

Outlander Systems
09-07-09, 05:25
I like the way you guys are thinking. A powered optic would be an excellent choice for a survival smokewagon.

6933: Have you seen this? I have a raging case of GAS for this thing:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=21177

ColdDeadHands
09-07-09, 08:18
I like the way you guys are thinking. A powered optic would be an excellent choice for a survival smokewagon.

6933: Have you seen this? I have a raging case of GAS for this thing:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=21177

My Buddy bought it but I'm not impressed...

QuietShootr
09-07-09, 09:35
I already have it.

Colt lower, MIAD and CTR
LMT MK18 upper (10.5" medium-weight 1:7)
KAC RAS II
TD Irish grip
SF G2 in KAC mount with LED conversion head
Gemtech HALO suppressor
KAC singlepoint sling plate
Aimpoint M3/Larue mount
Larue BUIS
UERT Urban Sentry Hybrid sling and forward rail mount

Short, quiet, easy to work in and around vehicles.

Outlander Systems
09-07-09, 09:58
Break out some pics!

dbrowne1
09-07-09, 11:10
The majority of my training and experience is on the AR-15 family, both shooting and maintaining, so I'd have to stick with that. A basic 16" gun with a good optic and BUIS.

If I were starting from scratch I might look hard at the FAL as well.

PA PATRIOT
09-07-09, 13:13
Gentleman,

My wife has been following this thread and she is lacking some of the meanings of the shorten names for items we use, while I translate for her I'M sure there are more then a few layman who visit this site and may have problems with following the lingo of this thread so maybe a little more full description maybe in order.


Thanks
Phila PD

Outlander Systems
09-07-09, 13:57
Phila PD:

What are some areas of confusion? Be more specific, and I'll do my best to help.

As far as anything I've said:

STANAG = STAndardisation AGreement (NATO)
GAS = Gear Acquisition Syndrome
MIAD = Magpul MIssion ADaptable grip
MOE = Magpul Original Equipment grip
LPK = Lower Parts Kit
CTR = Magpul Compact/Type Restricted Stock
UBR = Magpul Utility/Battle Rifle Stock
ACS = Magpul Adaptable Carbine/Storage Stock

Jerm
09-07-09, 14:37
My long-term "bug-in" rifle is a 16" LMT.

It's pretty plain....MOE stock/MIAD grip and Omega rail(which isnt getting much use ATM)...Troy BUIS and G2 with lamp upgrade.

I still havent decided if it's going to get a TA33 or a TR24G (since moving my H1 to my BCM-lightweight HD rifle).I may still add an SSA trigger.

The SSA and leaving on the Omega(despite it's limited use for me now) is mostly due to small game considerations.The magnified optic is also a consideration for small game and the local terrain in general.

This set-up should be good for hunting anything in my area(VA mountains) from small game to deer.As well as obviously being a great defensive/fighting tool.

Short of the barrel assembly and stripped lowers...I have enough spare parts on hand to rebuild twice over.

MarshallDodge
09-07-09, 15:14
A well built AR with a removeable carry handle and a sling.

For a light I would use something that has rechargeable batteries with a solar charger to recharge them.

Aimpoints have an ubelievable long battery life and if you had a couple extra batteries then you would have many years of operation.

tpd223
09-07-09, 17:19
I already have what I need;

Glock 17

The gun Colt should build, but they don't, had mine put together by Ken Elmore;

Colt 16" a1 profile barrel, 1/7 twist, flat top upper, pretty much standard everything else, added a Sure Fire rail, a forward grip, Mag Pul grip, Aimpoint T1 in a LaRue mount, LaRue "PoBoy" optic on swing away mount, and a BUIS.

S&W J frame .38s


With these three guns I have everything covered that I really need in my AO since we have no large dangerous animals to deal with unless we go to the zoo.

I can cover defensive use, varmint whacking, and deer hunting if need be. I have more guns than this, but I seriously think these three would cover my needs completely if I had to choose just three guns.

I have a .22 upper for both the AR and the G17, for practice and small game hunting.

Were I to live somewhere with bears I'd seriously think about having a .44mag, and maybe keeping my Mossberg 590 loaded up with Brenneke slugs very handy.

I keep spare parts handy. I've been to armorer school on the Colt ARs, Mossberg shotguns, Remington shotguns, S&W pistols, and a few others. It's nice not needing an armorer because you can do it yourself.

kmrtnsn
09-07-09, 17:41
No matter what happens, you'll always be able to find 12 guage ammo, whether that be birdshot, OO, or slugs; the stuff is everywhere, plentiful, and cheap. I take the 870 as the primary and back it up with my USPc.

ColdDeadHands
09-07-09, 19:40
No matter what happens, you'll always be able to find 12 guage ammo, whether that be birdshot, OO, or slugs; the stuff is everywhere, plentiful, and cheap. I take the 870 as the primary and back it up with my USPc.

I disagree, post election I couldn't find buckshot anywhere...birdshot & slugs yes but no buckshot. Once it became available I stocked up tho...

Outlander Systems
09-07-09, 20:10
I think a new scattergun might be a welcomed addition to the rig...

bradb55
09-07-09, 20:59
I guess its between my Remy 870 or my Romy AK since I haven't finished my AR build and parted out my DPMS. I have a set up for both ready to go. I'd most likely grab my 870 because I'm more familiar with it, than my AK.

My Glock 19 is a no brainer.

Cool thread Landlord

kmrtnsn
09-07-09, 21:09
During a disaster or post SHTF I think the 870 is the only way to go. I think that 12ga ammo, in its many forms would be the easiest ammo to scrounge up, or beg, borrow, or if you had to; steal. Try finding 7.62x39 or 5.56. I think it would be harder to encounter and would carry a premium that a "game load" wouldn't necessarily be saddled with.

BudMan5
09-07-09, 22:35
Security, Shelter and Food.

Divide everything you do into those three things. I have a S&W 15 and a Glock 30 (for carry). I am buying ammo and magazines for both. Don't gert to fancy on what you strap onto the AR. Next will be a 22 rifle, probably a Ruger so I can hunt with it. .22 ammo is the cheapest ammo you can buy and you can get 500 round bricks all day for what you pay for .223. Next is a .22 auto pistol probably a Ruiger Mark III. First for the ammo compatability , next because it is easy to silence edited. A 12 gauge with a short barrel and a long barrel and pump action (reliability) for defense and hunting. Finally maybe a long gun shooting a larger caliber, probably .308 bolt action for (again) reliabilty.

Have at least one shooter in every caliber of ammo that you stockpile.

Ammo could become barter items. You can never have "too much". Save only the calibers that everybody uses now: .22, 12 ga. 38Spl, 9 mm, 45 acp and if the cops around you have .40S&W.

Edited - not exactly the content we want M4C associated with.

Mac5.56
09-08-09, 00:13
\Try finding 7.62x39 or 5.56.

I understand your points, but when it comes to center fire brass, every police department in five counties of me uses .223 patrol rifles. I would say that the .223 would be the most readily available rifle round in this situation. THe contenders would be the 7.62, 308, 30.06, and 30.30 all of which will be fewer and more far between.

I do agree with the 12 gauge shell being everywhere though.

kmrtnsn
09-08-09, 00:28
Exactly why I focused on 12ga. I can't think of a more prevalent cartridge outside of .22LR to be found anywhere. Unfortunately, .22LR has limited tactical practicality in a wide variety of application when compared to 12ga.

ARJJ
09-08-09, 00:29
For a primary, either AR. I could use my M&P15T and leave the lightweight frankengun for the wife, or if I'm just going out to water the dog, I'll take the lightweight. The S&W has an EOTech, MIAD, TD VFG, Modstock, & SF G2 on it currently, but I think that in the SHTF situation the OP describes, lugging that beast is gonna get old quick. Therefore, I'd prolly strip the Unnecessary stuff off to make it lighter and less portly.

A spare bolt, repair kit, and spring kit would be nice, and I have enough cleaning supplies for several years. I think that in the situation he describes (as it applies to my area), a defensive carbine would either be used a little or a lot. In the case of the latter, I probably won't be around long enough to need spare parts. A grim outlook, yes, but that's reality.

I think my Ruger MkIII .22 and Marlin M60 .22 would see a lot frequent use in a small game hunting role.

I have the M&P40 and G22 for carry, one for me and one for her. A G27 for around the house or for a "go to town" piece once a local barter economy is set up. (I anticipate this being the case due to my area's rural/agricultural setting.) The 1911 and the Smith .357 just because. (The latter would make a nice "keep inside the house" gun for my wife when loaded with .38's.)

Ideally, I would add a plain-jane underfolder AK as an all-purpose "handy gun" for just going outside, or to have around while performing mundane household chores. A good bolt-action or semi in .308 for vehicle defense and for the several acres of empty fields surrounding my home. I'd really like to have an M1 Carbine and a .410 pump shotgun for my wife, but I keep placing those items low on my list. (I think having to buy another caliber of ammo factors into that decision somewhat.)

PA PATRIOT
09-08-09, 09:45
For most weapons I buy two, one for the wife and one for me. Now that the son is 16 and a very good marksman on just about every gun we own I decided that he should be able to help defend the home with the wife until I arrive or be a added sentry for the fire watch. Plus in these days were a new assault weapons ban could pop up any day it would be his SHTF armory once here reaches age and has a place of his own. That said I have been actively checking local dealers for used guns and found a few different deals, Used Glocks in 9mm seem to have fallen off in price in my area retailing around $325.00 OTD for a lightly used, excellent condition Model-17 or 19. I also picked up a used Remington Model 870 12 gauge with a 18" barrel in like new condition for $175.00 and to round off the package a Ruger Mini-14 which maybe had 50rds fired for $365.00. In total $865.00 paid for a solid SHTF three gun package and since I already have a Ruger 10/22 and a Mark II pistol in the safe to pass over to him he should have everything a SHTF warrior would need. The only thing I'M still working on for him is support gear and body armor but the armor may have to wait a little until he stops growing.

MIKE G
09-08-09, 09:50
......

PA PATRIOT
09-08-09, 13:23
Are so called L/E dealer in the area sells the L/E only Glocks for $525.00 to Philly PD officers who are up-calibering to the .45acp. I wish we all (L.E.O's) could find a honest pricing L/E dealer like yours. The only decent deals we get are the Police turn ins that one dealer outside the city receives and one can find un-issued pistols once in a while at a sweet price. Over the years I was able to pick up a few un-issued Glock Models-17, 19, 22, 21, 34 and even a 17L.

MIKE G
09-08-09, 13:28
.....

fixer
03-12-10, 05:49
whatever you have on hand, have ammo, mags and spare parts for and have trained with beats the snot out of some "dream gun" that you're still saving for/building up/is broken/whatever.

i've got more than a few ARs. *one* shotgun, an AK or two, multiple nice accurate .22s and several Glocks. plus a few .308s that are on the chopping block. i've also got a Ruger MK2 "slabside" and an Advantage Arms .22 kit for one of the Glocks.

i've got spare parts for the ARs and Glocks.

my favorite ARs are "Lightweight Government Carbine" clones, with some modern touches (M4 handguards and "waffle" stocks, with Ergo grips but i may be switching them over to MOE furniture with MIAD grips.)

i'm not a big fan of A2 sights on carbines. i'll take a C7 upper with the A1 sights, or a *fixed* BUIS from Daniel Defense, LaRue or Troy.

one of the heavier guns has a Surefire M500 light and the lighter ones are in the process of getting Surefire G2 LEDs in VTAC mounts on MI short rails (no wires, no pressure pads) the M590A1 has a Surefire 623F.

simple two point slings. a plain GI silent sling works fine... but i'd like to get some of the slings from The Wilderness in OD or Coyote because i try to reduce the black on the gun... it really stands out in the field.

for the stock, a plain, cheap M4 "waffle" stock works fine. Magpul and other companies have other options, but if i could find the waffle stock in Coyote or Foliage i'd be happy. i find the sling mounts on the Magpul stocks a little odd. some of the other stocks have some storage options, but they all get heavier. a heavier than standard buffer is nice.

most of my ARs have Ergo grips, but i just got a MOE for the 15-22 and a MIAD to try on something else. the F4 front strap with the finger ridge and triggerguard seems to make sense. the Magpul grips have the advantage of being able to store a spare bolt on the gun. you can stick other things in the grip, but the bolt makes the most sense to me.

a red dot or other optic is nice, but irons are mandatory.

a Vortex or Phantom will help reduce your muzzle signature at night.

glocktogo
03-12-10, 08:25
Scoped Ruger 10/22 and a buttload of .22 ammo would be the first thing I'd grab. You can feed your family with one and not draw a lot of attention to yourself. With 30 round mags, you could hold off a sizable hoard out to 100 yards or so. If they show a body part, you can hit it.

Glock 17 next. 9mm ammo is even more plentiful than .22 ammo lately and you can find it in just about any store. It's decent for close defense and light weight with quite a bit of ammo on tap.

Good AR with an Aimpoint. 2-3 batteries and you have a red dot that will work for 8-12 years. Plenty of power to bring down deer and the occasional 2 legged predator.

I love shotguns, but a loadout of ammo is heavy and limited. Their range is limited and ounce for ounce, they just don't stack up except for HD and extreme close range. Anything you can kill with one for food can be done more efficiently with a .22 or the AR. If you're hunting for survival, sporting rules take a backseat. Wingshooting would be silly at that point.

PA PATRIOT
03-13-10, 22:16
I have been seeing a good number of Police trade in firearms when departments up-grade or just age replace weapons in their inventory at the local gun shops. Now we have all read were many on this forum state one should alway use rifle calibers (5.56, 6.8 or 7.62) in compact, light weight carbines for serious work and I agree with that recommendation 100% but in todays economy the cost of such platforms and the feeding of same is outside the current budgets of many.

So looking for a cheaper way to train and still be able to use the carbine in a SHTF event I picked up a Police trade in which was a Ruger Police Carbine in 9mm. The FFL I use in Feasterville, PA receives these carbines in both 9mm and .40S&W on a regular basis and currently has three of each on the rack. Now I know many want pristine condition firearms when they buy but these guns are not it. They have handling marks from being locked in racks and trunks but all appear 100% serviceable and overall the cosmetic condition is very good.

Now what I like about these carbines is that they are very compact, built like tanks, and have a winged front sight and protected ghost sight rear that gives the same sight picture as my AR does. Another good point is that magazines from 15rds to 33rds are widely available and can be had in the $20.00 range.

I ended up running my Ruger carbine hard the other day to see what it could do in terms accuracy and reliability with a host of common defensive loadings I had on hand. Since I feel this little carbine is a effective short range platform out to 50yds (Due to the increased velocity with +P and +P+ loadings from the 16" barrel should help expand H/P's some what) and a hole poker past that to 150yds I kept my shooting distance within that range.

Using Mec-Gar 20rd magazines I decided to shoot the different +P+ loadings to see just how far I could hit a 12" inch wide by 14" inch tall steel plate which many would say covers the chest area on a average sized person. Using a 100 yard zero with the iron sights I had no problems with any of the +P+ loads making low center hits at 150yds when aiming at the upper 1/4 of the plate. Using +P loadings and the same aiming point the hits were in the bottom 1/3 area of the plate and standard pressure loadings were all within the bottom 1/4 area of the plate.

Reliability wise the Ruger Carbine functioned 100% through 300rds of assorted +P+, +P and Standard pressure ammunition. So the bright spot of this whole post is that one can still find a full sized carbine which is affordable (Mine cost $375.00 OTD) New reliable inexpensive hi-cap magazines and ammunition ($9.47 per 50rds of 9mm at Wal-Mart) to train with which does not break the bank. Whats not to like?

My next test is to see how far off Hollow points will expand when shooting them into my water box but that wont happen until the weather warms up and work slows down a bit. I also may look into one of the .40S&W versions if funds and time allows.

http://best9mm.com/carbines/ruger9.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d7/Ruger_PC4.jpg/300px-Ruger_PC4.jpg

siucowboy
03-14-10, 04:44
Either one of my AR's or this...

4462

fixer
03-19-10, 19:55
with the ever increasing cost of ammo i've been giving more consideration to an AR in 5.45x39.

just got an email from Aim Surplus and they have the S&W M&P R for $880. and 44mag.com has 5.45 mags for about $14 each.

but i've also found a company that will make a custom 5.45 barrel for $230 and it's nitrided, inside and out which should be harder, slicker and more corosion resistant than chrome.

since it would be a custom barrel, yu could order it as, for example a 14.5" M4 profille. while the M&P R has an M4 profile, it's a 16" tube... and perhaps it's just me, but the grenade notch on a 16" barrel is one of the dorkiest things i've seen recently on what are otherwise usually very practical rifles. either skip the notch completely or step down to a medium contour for the whole barrel. for most people the notch is purely cosmetic.

but on a 14.5" you could have a Phantom or Vortex permanently attached and get a slightly shorter gun that's not a SBR. and a rifle that's cheap to feed. you could *and should* pile it higher and deeper if you're making the investment in a 5.45 rifle.

and since "two is one and one is none" eventually getting TWO rifles, or at least a second complete upper and some heavy hammer springs to swap onto a 5.56 AR if needed would be a VERY good idea.

with my luck, i'd have a palate of 5.45 and then have something happen to the one rifle that used it. :rolleyes:

if i can sell some of the rifles that i can't shoot because of my eye problems (the .308s, two HKs, one M1A and two bolt guns), i'll be looking into either buying or building a rifle one in 5.45 and getting more ammo while it's still cheap.

siucowboy
03-19-10, 20:44
by nitrided barrel, is that nitrocarborization?

If so I'd take hard chrome (done correctly) over something nitrocarbed anyday

tracker722
03-19-10, 23:34
******

fixer
03-20-10, 00:06
by nitrided barrel, is that nitrocarborization?

If so I'd take hard chrome (done correctly) over something nitrocarbed anyday

hmmm... not sure. it's Melonite. (salt bath nitride) http://ballisticadvantagellc.com/545x39.php

i'm familiar with Titanium Nitride from tools, blades and motorcycle forks, but i'll readily admit that i'm not familiar with nitrocarborization

DSA is also selling "nitrided" barrels for about $10 more than parkerized barrels, and i'm seeing other vendors with "Ion Bonded" parts including the bolt and BCG.

fixer
03-20-10, 00:11
Not knocking the AR, but I feel the M14 is one of the finest weapons ever made. Call me old school, but I like the feel of the M14.

can you run it lefty? or right handed from the left shoulder?

i've had two retina reatachments and a lensectomy on the right eyeball and can't aim from the right side anymore.

any interest in a match M1A? :D

tracker722
03-20-10, 00:18
*****

fixer
03-20-10, 05:48
If you can shoot a 20 ga. shotgun, the .308 is a pussycat.

hmm.. dunno. never shot a 20, and the only SG i have is a 12ga M590A1 with ghostring sights and Surefire forend.

it's got a heavy 18.5" barrel and i run the reduced recoil 9 pellet 00 in it, so it's not a heavy recoiler. that's the only scattergun i have

but i need to change the stock. right now it has a Speedfeed stock in the "bantam" length. the only way i can shoot it with this stock is full lefty. i need a one of the M4 & pistol grip conversion stocks to shoot it right handed from the left side. i need that very short LOP to shoot right handed from the left side.

i'm also waiting for the new ambi selectors for the AR from Troy. no screws like the typical ambi selector. those look like a good option.

my shooting is all jacked up right now, but a few months back i was "legally blind" and even the left side was hazy, so i'll take what i can get. this was one of my main reasons for getting the 15-22 was to relearn running everything on the other side, or crossed up.

but the HKs are very right handed and do seem to kick a bit more than the other stuff i have.

tracker722
03-21-10, 09:58
******

fixer
03-22-10, 02:23
negative on the expensive oddball calibers.

i keep my logistics simple, or at least try to.

there's a long list of oddball calibers that i don't want to have to feed; 6.5, 6.8, etc. ammo prices are STEEPER, ammo availability is less. an AR in .308 would make more sense. ammo IS available, surplus is available, i already have some... but i'm not feeling terribly undrergunned.

a 5.45 AR would let me spend more time at the range. it's slightly oddball but it's currently very cheap. it's not as cheap as it was, but not much is.

i do need to unload the HKs for ergonomic and economic reasons. those two rifles are over $5k with everything i have in them, IF i can find someone interested enough in them to pay that price... 'till then they sit in the safe. right now is not the best time to try and sell big ticket items.. a year ago i probably could have moved them easier. or if they were 20 AKs instead of 2 HKs, no problem. but unlike some people, i never wanted 20 AKs.

i'm currently "on disability" but nothing's come thru yet.

ColdDeadHands
03-22-10, 06:27
Well, if you are wanting a heavier caliber, maybe you should look into a 6.8 build or convert one of your 5.56s to it. Might even be cheaper in the long run and from what I hear, recoil is not that much greater than a 5.56.


Please let us know where you find 6.8 ammo for less then 5.56 ammo. My research shows 6.8mm SPC ammo to be twice as expensive as 5.56mm...

woody d
03-22-10, 10:13
while i do like th idea of a 9mm carbine/pistol combo, i would only grab the carbine if it took Glock mags. i refuse to buy a Kel tec so im sh*t outta luck. in a disaster i dont want to mixing and matching different mags and firearms to make sure im ready to go.

tracker722
03-22-10, 17:03
******

fixer
03-22-10, 22:07
with the 6.5, 6.8, etc there's also the problem of having mags that fit into the same gun, but that are for different calibers. it's possible that at some point, someone might grab the wrong mag and that could mess things up.

the AKs avoided this problem. 7.62 and 5.45 mags have a different shape, and they won't interchange. you simply can't but a 5.45 mag into a 7.62 rifle or vice versa. i've tried just to make sure.

and while i'm planning on getting an AR in 5.45x39 at some point... i already have the mags for it marked. a red band of electrical tape around the mags should be obvious, but i'd LOVE to find some of the red "range safety" Magpuls. and the rifle will get marked too. don't want someone else mixing things up.

Glocks (and some other pistols) also have a similar problem with 9 and .40


as for a 9mm AR, unless it's a SBR with a can it's probably in the "range toy" category and i'll take something in a rifle caliber when TSHTF.

SKINJA11
03-25-10, 20:07
not sure if this is the correct response but this is my system, i keep a 3gun bag in my tahoe packed with the following - lwrc m6a2 rifle,benelli m2,glock17 same as if i were going to a match or training day.each weapon is backed by its needed supplies,ie- mags ,holster,slings,ammo,mags etc.luckily i live 12miles to work which is at a well stocked north georgia gun shop.:) if trouble or storms or unrest arise ,we at the shop already have plans on what will happen next.home is well stocked with PLENTY of backup.i know the thread is about primary weapon but for a little more space i feel i can safely and effectively handle most emergencies with what's on hand without getting to the safe room at home.

zpo
03-25-10, 21:18
while i do like th idea of a 9mm carbine/pistol combo, i would only grab the carbine if it took Glock mags. i refuse to buy a Kel tec so im sh*t outta luck. in a disaster i dont want to mixing and matching different mags and firearms to make sure im ready to go.

Don't have one, can't vouch for it, but an option to look into is the Mech Tech CCU.

http://www.mechtechsys.com/

PA PATRIOT
03-26-10, 21:50
Don't have one, can't vouch for it, but an option to look into is the Mech Tech CCU.

http://www.mechtechsys.com/

Owned two, One Glock and the other .45acp and I sold both due to continuous function problems.

I have been more interested in Pistol Caliber Carbines ever since 5.56 and 7.62 ammunition started to dry up and increase in price five fold. I have been running my Ruger Police Carbine in 9mm almost full time when needing a rifle for training reasons due to the greatly reduce cost of 9mm and being able to engage targets out to 150yds with ease.

Since the Rugers ghost ring sights and caged front post mimics the AR sight and the magazine release button being located on the magazine well on the same side as the AR my operation manipulation with the Ruger is similar in nature and while not exact it is close enough to be able to operate either system like second nature. And lastly since both the AR and Ruger use 20 & 30rd magazines one does not lose out on magazine capacity.

My take is that once the rifle ammo runs out at least I will still have a long arm that is able to handle 9mm and .40S&W more accurately and extend the effective range over the same caliber handgun.

I'LL still always take a 7.62 or 5.56 rifle over a pistol caliber carbine any day but its nice to have the option if needed.

woody d
03-27-10, 10:23
i spent a little bit of time yesterday on gunbroker looking at 9mm ARs and the good news was there is one that takes Glock mags, but the bad news is it is made by Olympic:(

jwfuhrman
03-27-10, 10:40
My Glock 21SF would deffinately go everywhere with me. I have 5 mags, and 1000rds of 45acp. Also, Between my father and I, who lives 1/8 mile away, we have around 6500rds of commercial and handload 55gr and 75gr .223

So I would have to say, any of these rifles would be my primary, most likely my SBR, but you never know.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/paintballaddict/100_1011.jpg

PA PATRIOT
03-27-10, 14:14
i spent a little bit of time yesterday on gunbroker looking at 9mm ARs and the good news was there is one that takes Glock mags, but the bad news is it is made by Olympic:(

Lone Wolf is also selling a Glock Magazine 9mm AR lower which is said to fit most makes of 9mm uppers, they will be selling complete 9mm AR carbines soon.

01tundra
03-29-10, 11:11
Probably my .22, it only weighs 6.8 lbs with the bi-pod on it (5.8 lbs without) and ammo is also light. It will gladly take any ammo I feed it without failure and doesn't really care much about being clean or dirty. Plus for small game (food) purposes......I can give a squirrel as vasectomy at 50 yds with it ;).


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/01tundra/a10.jpg