View Full Version : Oh No I bought a RRA.....Did I fix it right?
Alright fellas I know the title kinda shows my inexperience but when purchased at the time I had limited resources of info on the AR platform. So I made the best informed decision that my budget would allow. Now instead of scrapping my RRA Tac. Entry I decided it may be more cost effective to try to bring it up to spec. Here are my mods, and if I'm heading in the wrong direction someone who is wiser then me (doesn't take much) point me in the right direction.
Anvil Arms Complete BCG with Carpenter Bolt
Spikes Tactical ST-T2 Buffer
Tactical Springs LLC Extra Power(red) Buffer Spring
I believe with these modifications I have possibly added a few more check marks on "the list" to my RRA rifle.
Thoughts/Questions/Gripes/Concerns All welcome
Matt
variablebinary
09-09-09, 04:49
I think you should shoot your RRA as it is and save your money for ammo and mags
I think you should shoot your RRA as it is and save your money for ammo and mags
I'm sorry I guess I should have covered that too. It is my patrol rifle so building it up is because I stake my life on it not because it is a safe queen. I don't get to shoot as much as I'd like but I probably have close to 3k rounds through it in a 2 1/2 year span including my basic patrol rifle school about a week in duration. The only problem I have ever had was with some bad magazines, and only fail to feed, fire, extract have all been staged malfunctions other than that no hicups. And I know if it aint broke don't fix it, but I can't help myself
Matt
I think that with most of those products you've thrown good money after bad and may wind up inducing problems you never had.
I think the Anvil bolt thing is a crock of marketing shit, and without checking the Spike's site for the weight of that buffer and knowing what ammo you're shooting can't comment on that other than to say "I wouldn't", and adding that potentially heavier buffer to a stronger power spring, again depending on ammo, may not be the best idea.
Personally, if I had an RRA that was otherwise functioning fine for 3K rounds I'd buy a BCM BCG to drop in, check the castle nut for staking, and possibly ream the chamber just to be overly cautious. If I was on the super-cheap train I would drop in a BCM extractor upgrade kit (less the o-ring), stake the carrier key and castle nut, and be done.
Shoot the dog snot out of it and try to abuse it and see where it chokes. Then fix from there.
Mr.Goodtimes
09-09-09, 08:45
I think that with most of those products you've thrown good money after bad and may wind up inducing problems you never had.
I think the Anvil bolt thing is a crock of marketing shit, and without checking the Spike's site for the weight of that buffer and knowing what ammo you're shooting can't comment on that other than to say "I wouldn't", and adding that potentially heavier buffer to a stronger power spring, again depending on ammo, may not be the best idea.
Personally, if I had an RRA that was otherwise functioning fine for 3K rounds I'd buy a BCM BCG to drop in, check the castle nut for staking, and possibly ream the chamber just to be overly cautious. If I was on the super-cheap train I would drop in a BCM extractor upgrade kit (less the o-ring), stake the carrier key and castle nut, and be done.
the ST-T2 buffer is supposed to be really nice. I believe its a little heavier then a H2, and i mean just a little. I've considered putting one in my rifle to try out.
the ST-T2 buffer is supposed to be really nice. I believe its a little heavier then a H2, and i mean just a little. I've considered putting one in my rifle to try out.
I'm not trying to pick on you, really, but how do you define "really nice" in this case? And what does "supposed to be" mean? According to who?
And what does it do that the H or H2 doesn't, and how is that influenced by ammunition selection as well as carrier weight/type and spring strength?
The OP took a carbine that has, by his account, run great for 3k+ rounds and set about to "fixing" it with a lot of parts that are either snake oil or may not work well with the other parts he bought, or the ones already in the gun.
These guns operate as a system. You have a lot of factors that go into making it work (ignoring the magazines):
ammunition used
chamber size
gas port size
gas tube length
carrier key staking
carrier type/weight
extractor
extractor tension (springs)
buffer type/weight
spring strength/length
are the most commonly mentioned. Fiddle with one and you may affect the entire chain. That is why it's important to not only understand that the parts may be desirable, but why. and adding parts to a functional gun without understanding that why or having a known issue that you're trying to address... not a recipe for success.
You can very easily take a gun that is running great with an AR carrier, blue extractor spring insert and 3-coil spring, standard buffer spring and C buffer and install a new extractor spring and insert, drop in an o-ring, go with an M16 carrier, and add an H2 buffer and extra power spring and turn your rifle into a single shot. All those things are supposedly "better", but that is not a catch-all.
Preferred User
09-09-09, 09:02
When I "fixed" my RRA Entry Tactical I followed Rob's advice from an earlier thread and did the following:
1. Installed BCM BCG, complete with extractor spring, etc.
2. Got the RRA BCG staked and keep it as a backup
3. Got a sling
4. Shot it
spent some extra $$ after I got a DD
5. Got a mil-spec extension tube
6. Took the stock from the DD and put it on the RRA
7. Properly staked the castle nut
8. Shot it some more
9. Considered changing the barrel
10. Bought more ammo instead
Although it sometimes takes a different mindset to stop spending money to fix something, I finally recognized that the RRA is a tool not something I am in love with. It is fine for what it is, it will never be a "Tier 1" no matter how much I spend. Is it a nice tack driver? Absolutely. Is it nice to shoot? Absolutely. Did I spend my $$ better on my second go round after reading a lot of posts here? Absolutely.
askani79705
09-09-09, 09:33
On the cheap.
Stake everything down.
H buffer
Bravo Company extractor kit
Is it ok to mention a deal I found on Magpul CTRs if the site doesn't have a banner for them?
I got in trouble at the other AR site for that.
Mr.Goodtimes
09-09-09, 09:38
I'm not trying to pick on you, really, but how do you define "really nice" in this case? And what does "supposed to be" mean? According to who?
ive read several reviews about this buffer. all the users that have written about it have all loved it. the way the buffer is made, the weight inside the buffer doesent shift around, supposedly making the recoil impulse smoother. its also made out of stainless steel fwiw.
im not saying its some sort of do all to end all buffer, i've never used one. i only said that its supposed to be nice. Its pretty expensive so, idk if its $45 nice. I certainly dont think that the ST-T2 would pose any reliability problems that A standard H2 or H3 wouldnt potentially cause.
I certainly dont think that the ST-T2 would pose any reliability problems that A standard H2 or H3 wouldnt potentially cause.
Depending on the weight, I would be inclined to agree with you, but then it begs the question, if it does no worse, than for the increased cost what does it do better?
Also
the way the buffer is made, the weight inside the buffer doesent shift around, supposedly making the recoil impulse smoother. its also made out of stainless steel fwiw.
I'm not actually sure I agree with making the weight stationary, or with the claims re: "recoil impulse" (a term which is hard enough to pin down as to it's meaning as to be pretty useless in and of itself). IMHO if the weights in the standard unit shift they do so for a reason. Locking them down without a clear understanding of why they are loose to begin with strikes me as a bad idea.
And, even if the ST-T2 is the best buffer ever in the universe and is easily worth 10x it's price, it can still be a source of possible reliability issues in a carbine that has been working fine with a standard C buffer. Just because a thing is the greatest since sliced bread doesn't mean it's applicable in all cases.
I own 6 RRA uppers (and a couple of lowers). I'm not going to debate their relative quality against the Noveske's, BCM's, or Colt's. They will do what I ask them when I ask them, of that I am certain. I properly staked the carrier key with a MOACKS, I properly staked the castle nut, and I ensured they had the proper extractor insert and spring. For the three which are carbine length gas systems, I am using a M16 carrier with H buffer. I used the Explanation of Features to make each of the adjustments I just mentioned, as they are reliability enhancements. The chart is meaningless to me. I will never shoot out the 4140 chrome lined barrels. If a bolt breaks, I have some BCM bolts as spares. I have shot a number of 5.56 loads through each of them without issue, so chamber dimensions are not an issue. No, my RRA's don't meet all the specs on the chart, but then, my needs don't require it. I have no doubt they will function reliably in any situation they may be needed, to include a firefight. While I have never been to a carbine class, yet, I have pumped about the same amount of rounds downrange in relatively the same amount of time as most would do during a class. That particular RRA ran fine and is running just fine (and hasn't been cleaned in the last 3000 rounds). Each of the others have the same reliability enhancements. Again, I'm not here to tell anyone that my RRA's are "just as good as". They do what I need them to do when I need them to do it. That is a fact! Of course, so does my Noveske.
Alright fellas I know the title kinda shows my inexperience but when purchased at the time I had limited resources of info on the AR platform. So I made the best informed decision that my budget would allow. Now instead of scrapping my RRA Tac. Entry I decided it may be more cost effective to try to bring it up to spec. Here are my mods, and if I'm heading in the wrong direction someone who is wiser then me (doesn't take much) point me in the right direction.
Anvil Arms Complete BCG with Carpenter Bolt
Spikes Tactical ST-T2 Buffer
Tactical Springs LLC Extra Power(red) Buffer Spring
I believe with these modifications I have possibly added a few more check marks on "the list" to my RRA rifle.
Thoughts/Questions/Gripes/Concerns All welcome
Matt
Anvil Arms Complete BCG with Carpenter Bolt NO, NOT REALLY.
Spikes Tactical ST-T2 Buffer If it is heavier than a Car buffer, then you have improved things some.
Tactical Springs LLC Extra Power(red) Buffer Spring Good idea, but the RRA spring really isn't the issue. It is the oversized GP.
If I owned a RRA, there is the list of things I would do:
1. Stake the gas key.
2. Add a BCM bolt upgrade kit (if it has a carbine gas system).
3. Buy a spare bolt (as these break on all guns).
4. Add an H buffer for a middy gas system and an H2 or H3 buffer for a carbine gas system.
5. Check the chamber to make sure it is 556 NATO.
6. Removed the RE and installed a mil-spec one and then staked the castle nut.
C4
Thomas M-4
09-09-09, 15:42
I run a tactical cs carbine buffer spring but I am using the standard rate one blue.
Just replaced as my original spring was measuring 10 3/8 '' . It works fine so far but I still have not put that many rounds through it to give me an absolute answer.
I have seen the Spikes st2 buffer it is supposed to be filled with tungsten powder and is supposed to act like a dead blow hammer. The Idea sounds good but I have no experience with it. I would try it but my carbine already ejects the brass at the 4:00 position with an H-buffer so I am fine.
Grants post pretty much sums it up.
1. Stake the gas key.
2. Add a BCM bolt upgrade kit (if it has a carbine gas system).
3. Buy a spare bolt (as these break on all guns).
4. Add an H buffer for a middy gas system and an H2 or H3 buffer for a carbine gas system.
5. Checked the chamber to make sure it is 556 NATO.
6. Removed the RE and installed a mil-spec one and then staked the castle nut.
You already have the ST2 buffer so scratch number 4 and just do the rest.
Buy good mags I recommend P-mags...
"Removed the RE and installed a mil-spec one "
Noob here but is this really necessary? Can't you just put the new H buffer and action spring in an existing commercial RE and call it good? Sure, do it if you're buying a new milspec slider but otherwise it doesn't seem that a good commercial tube will affect reliability or durability.
I keep hearing commercial REs are garbage but just can't buy that.
Guys thanks for all the input. I guess maybe I was wrong in my research on bcg and by going with the Avil Arms one. But just maybe it will work well for me and won't be an issue. Also I thought with all the extra weight from the bcg and heavier buffer I would need the extra power spring and this seems not to be the case? The spikes buffer on the website weighs in at 4.3oz which is just heavier then a H2 buffer if I recall correctly.
Anvil Arms Complete BCG with Carpenter Bolt NO, NOT REALLY.
Spikes Tactical ST-T2 Buffer If it is heavier than a Car buffer, then you have improved things some.
Tactical Springs LLC Extra Power(red) Buffer Spring Good idea, but the RRA spring really isn't the issue. It is the oversized GP.
If I owned a RRA, there is the list of things I would do:
1. Stake the gas key.
2. Add a BCM bolt upgrade kit (if it has a carbine gas system).
3. Buy a spare bolt (as these break on all guns).
4. Add an H buffer for a middy gas system and an H2 or H3 buffer for a carbine gas system.
5. Check the chamber to make sure it is 556 NATO.
6. Removed the RE and installed a mil-spec one and then staked the castle nut.
C4
In regards to Grant's post and the replies to it, the RRA carrier has been staked this happened at my patrol rifle school by one of the instructors. I'd have to look at it again to make sure it was a good job but knowing B. Sain like I do I'm sure its good to go. And I can't for the life of me find if it has a mid lenght or carbine gas system if someone knows please fill me in. In regards to checking the chamber I know I've shot both .223 rem and 556NATO through it with no digestive problems.....is this wrong? And I'm pertty darn sure it is stamped with .556NATO on the lower but the redimag covers the lower up right now. I'm assuming there is another way the check the chamber, I'm just not aware of it. And lastly number 6 "remove the RE" I'm going out on a limb here saying that that is the buffer tube?
And I guess I should add that when I removed the buffer spring it was WAY shorter then the new spring I got so I'm sure it was time for a change. And to one of rob_s questions we are required to shoot 55 grain Hornady Tap on patrol, and I've only ever put 55 grain through it as far as I'm aware. The ammo is specified by our policy so compliance is mandatory.
Thanks again guys y'all never disappoint on the amount of knowledge here, and willingness to help
Matt
immaculate
09-09-09, 21:29
Matt,
I did pretty much everything "C4IGrant" suggested a while back on my first AR - a RRA Pro-Series Government.
I started by staking the gas key on the original bolt carrier, swapping for an H buffer, and upgrading the extractor (BCM kit) on my RRA bolt. I also bought extra bolts as backups.
The "RE" is the receiver extension aka the buffer tube. I replaced my commercial buffer tube because I wanted to use the LMT SOPMOD stock. Removal was pretty straightforward - I used a heat gun to heat the area (RRA apparently uses red loc-tite) and then took the armorer's wrench to it. It took all of 10 minutes and I'm not terribly mechanically inclined. I installed a new BCM receiver extension and properly staked the castle nut.
Since then, I've acquired a few other "top tier" rifles but I'm pleased to say that my first AR (the RRA) still shoots very accurately and reliably and this is after a few thousand rounds :D There's some great advice here - follow what you can and you should be good to go.
shittercrewchief
09-09-09, 21:33
Its a carbine length gas system, don't trust the lower as far as chamber this has been discussed in other threads but the best way is the markings on the barrel and even this can be wrong (depending on manufacture).
"Removed the RE and installed a mil-spec one "
Noob here but is this really necessary? Can't you just put the new H buffer and action spring in an existing commercial RE and call it good? Sure, do it if you're buying a new milspec slider but otherwise it doesn't seem that a good commercial tube will affect reliability or durability.
I keep hearing commercial REs are garbage but just can't buy that.
Yes IMHO. Reason? The commercial RE's are 6061 and the mil-spec is 7075. So at the VERY least, they are stronger. This mostly applies to buttstroking or drop testing.
The main reason I would switch it out is because they are "glued" together vs being staked.
I have had to remove RE's on the range before in order to get a gun back up and running. That is not going to happen with a loctited castle nut.
The other side benefit is that you have more options for stocks.
C4
Guys thanks for all the input. I guess maybe I was wrong in my research on bcg and by going with the Avil Arms one. But just maybe it will work well for me and won't be an issue. Also I thought with all the extra weight from the bcg and heavier buffer I would need the extra power spring and this seems not to be the case? The spikes buffer on the website weighs in at 4.3oz which is just heavier then a H2 buffer if I recall correctly.
In regards to Grant's post and the replies to it, the RRA carrier has been staked this happened at my patrol rifle school by one of the instructors. I'd have to look at it again to make sure it was a good job but knowing B. Sain like I do I'm sure its good to go. And I can't for the life of me find if it has a mid lenght or carbine gas system if someone knows please fill me in. In regards to checking the chamber I know I've shot both .223 rem and 556NATO through it with no digestive problems.....is this wrong? And I'm pertty darn sure it is stamped with .556NATO on the lower but the redimag covers the lower up right now. I'm assuming there is another way the check the chamber, I'm just not aware of it. And lastly number 6 "remove the RE" I'm going out on a limb here saying that that is the buffer tube?
Your gun has a car gas system. What 556 NATO did you try? Some ammo is listed as 556, but actually is not. The stamping on the barrel means nothing (companies lie about this all the time). Stamping on a lower means even less (FYI).
RE = Receiver extension. The incorrect/slang term for it is "buffer tube."
C4
Well depending on whats is available I have bought Monarch 55grain .556 from academy, and have bout 2 cases of .556 m193. The cases are waiting for a Magpul Dynamics Class in October so I guess I ought to run a few mags of those to make sure its going to feed/fire. When reading about receiver extentions on the AR Technical Discussion Knowledge Based Threads I believe that I read that the milspec has a different thread then the commerical ones, if that is true will a milspec fit on my commerical receiver?
Matt
Yes IMHO. Reason? The commercial RE's are 6061 and the mil-spec is 7075. So at the VERY least, they are stronger. This mostly applies to buttstroking or drop testing.
The main reason I would switch it out is because they are "glued" together vs being staked.
I have had to remove RE's on the range before in order to get a gun back up and running. That is not going to happen with a loctited castle nut.
The other side benefit is that you have more options for stocks.
C4
Ah, thanks C4, good points! Think I'll stay put with my commercial RE but won't loctite it yet, just in case... :D
Alright guys for those following this thread I appreciate all the input thus far in this thread, and the information been relayed to me. So I got my chance to take it to the range today. My plan was not to work on drills/technique ect...but I did make sure I used my fundementals cause no round is wasted right. I loaded up 99 rounds of ammo, I planed to shoot 100 rounds but mis loaded one of my mags. Out of the 99 rounds I fired 98 rounds, I had one Fail to Feed problem. Immediate action and I was back in the fight. The main concern I have is not so much at first but the last 40 rounds I fired were out of 3 different mags and the bolt did not lock back when the last round was fired on all three mags. In my limited wisdom I think that using the extra power spring has caused a bit of short stroking and this may be the reason for the fail to feed and the failure to lock back upon firing the final round. I had no problems with performance minus what has been explained and all in all without the fail to feed and fail to lock back x3 the new bcg/buffer/and spring ran fine. But I guess to say that is to accept that that it may/will happen when I need my rifle so that in and of its self is not acceptable. I know that rifles are machines and mechanical instruments and will all fail...but until it reaches failure I need it to run as close to 100% as it can. Especialy under favorable conditions. I think being new to the AR paltform, 3 years owning and shooting, has possibly caused some "rookie" mistakes in trying to tinker with it and make it better thus leading to the range problems I had today.
Questions and my options:
1) I'm thinking of keeping the extra power spring to use as a back up only with my origional bcg and car buffer and purchasing a standard spring to use with the new bcg and buffer. The good, bad and ungly of this? (questions/comments/gripes concerns)
2) Also while speaking of the old bcg while browsing the BCM website I found the BCM Sopmod bolt upgrade/rebuild kit, the BCM extractor spring upgrade, and the BCM extractor spring upgrade kit (set of 3). It was mentioned earlier in this thread that buying a bolt upgrade kit would be a good option. So which one is it? I'd assume the Sopmod upgrade/rebuild kit but then again I'm just assuming.
3) Could the extra power spring be causing the fail to feed and fail to lock back due to short stroking? I should add that I was using 3 usgi mags with Magpul ranger floor plates and it was the first time I have shot them since adding the floor plates but have not had issues with them in the past. Am I correct in diagnosing the problem or is there potential for other factors to cause this?
Thanks again guys,
Matt
If I owned a RRA, there is the list of things I would do:
1. Stake the gas key.
2. Add a BCM bolt upgrade kit (if it has a carbine gas system).
3. Buy a spare bolt (as these break on all guns).
4. Add an H buffer for a middy gas system and an H2 or H3 buffer for a carbine gas system.
5. Check the chamber to make sure it is 556 NATO.
6. Removed the RE and installed a mil-spec one and then staked the castle nut.
C4
BTW, I trying to apply these suggestions and not waste any more money.
1) Stake the gas key:
As of the current I have two BCG's the Anvil Arms and RRA. While the Anvil is properly staked compared to the pics of staking posted on M4C the RRA which has been staked in the past is not quite up to snuff. The staking does not quite carry over from the gas key material to the screws and I'm working on finding someone to stake it for me.
2) Add a BCM bolt upgrade kit
As stated in my last post....which one? The Sopmod upgrade/rebuild or just the upgrade kit?
3) Buy a spare bolt
I currently have 2 complete BCG's that both function right now. I know the movotation behind my op is to gain some check marks on the list and upgrade my rifle. So I plan on implementing #2 above on the RRA bolt, and saving for another quality bolt if not complete BCG.....maybe BCM or LMT who knows.
4) Add an H buffer for a middy gas system and an H2 or H3 buffer for a carbine gas system
I think it has been determined that I have a carbine gas system so I've got the ST-T2 buffer which seemed to function well today at the range so I think I'll hang on to it.
5) Check the chamber to make sure it is 556 NATO
Not too sure how to check the chamber minus reading the markings.....any ideas?
6) Remove the RE and installed a mil-spec one and then staked the castle nut.
As soon as I can verify that if I buy a mil-spec RE it will work (threads are the same) I'll be doing this and maybe if I get lucky I'll find a smith who can install and stake the RE and castle nut. But who will also be able to check my chamber and properly stake my gas key.
I now have a plan
Matt
spamsammich
09-11-09, 01:14
6) Remove the RE and installed a mil-spec one and then staked the castle nut.
As soon as I can verify that if I buy a mil-spec RE it will work (threads are the same) I'll be doing this and maybe if I get lucky I'll find a smith who can install and stake the RE and castle nut. But who will also be able to check my chamber and properly stake my gas key.
I now have a plan
Matt
Threading has little to do with the difference between mil-spec and commercial tubes, lower receivers do not have commercial or mil-spec specific threads, they accept both styles.
Do a search for "quib and stake" he has a good DIY with pics. You'll need a gunsmith with a 5.56 chamber reamer to check that chamber.
spamsammich
09-11-09, 01:17
read up and enjoy
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7009
there is a receiver extension basics thread in there.
read up and enjoy
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7009
there is a receiver extension basics thread in there.
Thanks bro, I read the "buffer tube basics" the other day maybe yesterday or two days ago when it was recommended that I go to a mil-spec RE but I thought I read in there that the threads on a mil-spec vs. non mil-spec were different sizes. I'll read it again shortly to verify.
Thanks again
Matt
spamsammich
09-11-09, 01:49
They are the same thread pitch, outer diameter of the thread is different because commercial tubes have a thread diameter that is the same as the main part of the tube and thus aren't typically full height. Milspec threads are taller, but the same pitch.
Ok it all is starting to make sense now thanks for clearing that up for me
Matt
.....The threads are the same and they will fit your lower. I have a RRA lower that I initially built with a commercial RE I had laying around, I've since replaced it with a milspec RE.
Raider97, thanks a lot for the info bro.
Matt
The difference in diameters on the RE is because the milspec is made from better material, with raised threads forged in. The commercial extension has the threads cut into the RE, that's why commercial extensions are a thicker diameter. The threads are the same and they will fit your lower. I have a RRA lower that I initially built with a commercial RE I had laying around, I've since replaced it with a milspec RE.
The only maker that uses forged RE that I've been able to find is Colt. Every other maker has stated they extrude, and has acted like forging an RE is just crazy talk.
The only maker that uses forged RE that I've been able to find is Colt. Every other maker has stated they extrude, and has acted like forging an RE is just crazy talk.
What about BCM? Maybe forging isn't the right word, but I think I remember from one of your posts that the difference in diameters is because the milspec are made with the threads, the commercial is just a tube with the threads cut in.
As I understand it (and ignoring questions of material for a moment)...
The original Colt REs (and current production) were/are forged. However nothing is forged into it's final state, even lowers, and everything gets some machining at the end to get it to it's final shape (the exception is net-shape forging, which I don't think the RE is due to cost, although they might be which would explain the high cost of a Colt RE). Forging is used to get the raw material to the general shape, and it aligns the material at the microscopic level which adds strength. You can take two blocks of identical aluminum and machine one lower from the block and forge the other into the rough shape and then do the final shape via machining and the forged part will be stronger (this is why, incidentally, billet lowers are thicker/fatter, they need to be to make up for the reduced strength, IMHO billet lowers cut to the identical dimensions of a forged lower are a really bad idea and should be avoided)
If the Colt RE is a net-shape forging, it would actually make a lot of sense. This would explain why the threads stand taller than the tube. Or at least explain how that shape was originally achieved, if not the why they chose to do it that way.
Either way, all of the other receiver extensions, Bravo included, whether commercial or milspec diameter, and regardless of material used, are extruded AFAIK. When I asked LMT abut theirs I got the "of course they are extruded, only an idiot would forge them" kind of response. :rolleyes: This means that all of these tubes are effectively the same, it's just a matter of how much material they cut off of the extrusion and what material they make them of. There is no reason someone couldn't make a commercial RE out of the "better" material or a milspec RE out of the "lesser" material.
One of these days I'll round up a whole collection of RE and try to do a photographic explanation of the differences, but it's pretty far down on my list of things to do as I don't think there's actually much interest in the subject, and I've come to believe that the stock and RE are two of the least worrisome parts of the gun.
Well depending on whats is available I have bought Monarch 55grain .556 from academy, and have bout 2 cases of .556 m193. The cases are waiting for a Magpul Dynamics Class in October so I guess I ought to run a few mags of those to make sure its going to feed/fire. When reading about receiver extentions on the AR Technical Discussion Knowledge Based Threads I believe that I read that the milspec has a different thread then the commerical ones, if that is true will a milspec fit on my commerical receiver?
Matt
I doubt that the Monarch is true 556.
The thread pattern on commercial and mil-spec RE's is the same.
C4
Alright guys for those following this thread I appreciate all the input thus far in this thread, and the information been relayed to me. So I got my chance to take it to the range today. My plan was not to work on drills/technique ect...but I did make sure I used my fundementals cause no round is wasted right. I loaded up 99 rounds of ammo, I planed to shoot 100 rounds but mis loaded one of my mags. Out of the 99 rounds I fired 98 rounds, I had one Fail to Feed problem. Immediate action and I was back in the fight. The main concern I have is not so much at first but the last 40 rounds I fired were out of 3 different mags and the bolt did not lock back when the last round was fired on all three mags. In my limited wisdom I think that using the extra power spring has caused a bit of short stroking and this may be the reason for the fail to feed and the failure to lock back upon firing the final round. I had no problems with performance minus what has been explained and all in all without the fail to feed and fail to lock back x3 the new bcg/buffer/and spring ran fine. But I guess to say that is to accept that that it may/will happen when I need my rifle so that in and of its self is not acceptable. I know that rifles are machines and mechanical instruments and will all fail...but until it reaches failure I need it to run as close to 100% as it can. Especialy under favorable conditions. I think being new to the AR paltform, 3 years owning and shooting, has possibly caused some "rookie" mistakes in trying to tinker with it and make it better thus leading to the range problems I had today.
Questions and my options:
1) I'm thinking of keeping the extra power spring to use as a back up only with my origional bcg and car buffer and purchasing a standard spring to use with the new bcg and buffer. The good, bad and ungly of this? (questions/comments/gripes concerns)
The spring you bought (red model) is too long IMHO. This is why I only sell the blue one. Your spring is most likely the issue. Load one round into a mag and fire the round. Did the BCG lock to the rear?
2) Also while speaking of the old bcg while browsing the BCM website I found the BCM Sopmod bolt upgrade/rebuild kit, the BCM extractor spring upgrade, and the BCM extractor spring upgrade kit (set of 3). It was mentioned earlier in this thread that buying a bolt upgrade kit would be a good option. So which one is it? I'd assume the Sopmod upgrade/rebuild kit but then again I'm just assuming.
The extractor spring upgrade kit (3 pack) is the best value.
3) Could the extra power spring be causing the fail to feed and fail to lock back due to short stroking? I should add that I was using 3 usgi mags with Magpul ranger floor plates and it was the first time I have shot them since adding the floor plates but have not had issues with them in the past. Am I correct in diagnosing the problem or is there potential for other factors to cause this?
Thanks again guys,
Matt
Most likely. If you are running standard GI mags, the springs in them can be weak (even as new) and might not be pushing the follower up fast enough to lock the bcg to the rear (doubt it though).
C4
BTW, I trying to apply these suggestions and not waste any more money.
1) Stake the gas key:
As of the current I have two BCG's the Anvil Arms and RRA. While the Anvil is properly staked compared to the pics of staking posted on M4C the RRA which has been staked in the past is not quite up to snuff. The staking does not quite carry over from the gas key material to the screws and I'm working on finding someone to stake it for me.
That should be fine.
2) Add a BCM bolt upgrade kit
As stated in my last post....which one? The Sopmod upgrade/rebuild or just the upgrade kit?
Bolt upgrade kit (3 pack).
3) Buy a spare bolt
I currently have 2 complete BCG's that both function right now. I know the movotation behind my op is to gain some check marks on the list and upgrade my rifle. So I plan on implementing #2 above on the RRA bolt, and saving for another quality bolt if not complete BCG.....maybe BCM or LMT who knows.
Don't worry about buying another bolt.
4) Add an H buffer for a middy gas system and an H2 or H3 buffer for a carbine gas system
I think it has been determined that I have a carbine gas system so I've got the ST-T2 buffer which seemed to function well today at the range so I think I'll hang on to it.
That buffer should run just as long as you do not use that spring.
5) Check the chamber to make sure it is 556 NATO
Not too sure how to check the chamber minus reading the markings.....any ideas?
Send it to someone that has a chamber checking device. ;)
6) Remove the RE and installed a mil-spec one and then staked the castle nut.
As soon as I can verify that if I buy a mil-spec RE it will work (threads are the same) I'll be doing this and maybe if I get lucky I'll find a smith who can install and stake the RE and castle nut. But who will also be able to check my chamber and properly stake my gas key.
I now have a plan
Matt
They are the same so there are no issues here.
C4
Grant, Thanks a whole bunch for all the advice and too all the others with the wiscom and knowledge and thought put into this thread.
Matt
Thomas M-4
09-11-09, 09:33
Swap the X-power buffer spring for a standard one.
Also what kind of mags are you using?
This is what I did to my RRA
I'm not sure I can really call it a Rock River anymore.
Some pieces have been falling off my DDM4 and they have found their way to my RRA.
The stock handguards have been replaced by a DD 10" lite rail and lo pro gas block.
The commercial tube and stock fell off so it got a Vltor Milspec tube and the MOE stock off my DDM4.
A DD QD receiver endplate found it's way on properly staked.
The DD VFG found a home on the RR.
The safety had already been swapped out for an ambi.
The std M4 profile barrel from the DDM4 found it's way there too so now it's light 1/7 twist with chrome bore and M4 feed ramps.
The BCG has been swapped out for a DD one FA/milspec.
A pair of troy buis have found their way there too.
It's having an identity crisis and doesn't know what to call itself anymore.
I was able to sell the parts from the RRA and I ended up with very little out of pocket using parts off my DDM4 to improve the RRA.
http://www.pbase.com/shadco/image/114844118.jpg
Swap the X-power buffer spring for a standard one.
Also what kind of mags are you using?
I was shooting plain jane USGI mags with light green followers. I run PMAGs most of the time. The USGI's just haven't been shot since putting the ranger plates on so I used them instead.
Matt
I guess you might be crazier than me, but if this was my duty gun, I wouldnt stake things on "maybe it will work well".
Since I saw you had issues on page two, I figured id just say as well. I had two RRAs (prior to my LMTs, Noveskes, and COLT) one middy and one carbine. I probably shot well over 3000 rds through the carbine without any issue using basic NHMTG aluminum mags. Ammo was winchester white box and lake city 5.56. Obviously I could have staked everything, put in a heavier etractor spring and a f/a carrier, but the most important thing is to do the least amount of "upgrades" to a well functioning gun. Sometimes a stock gun is more reliable then a reliability upgraded gun. You just have to choose you mods very wisely.
Guys thanks for all the input. I guess maybe I was wrong in my research on bcg and by going with the Avil Arms one. But just maybe it will work well for me and won't be an issue. Also I thought with all the extra weight from the bcg and heavier buffer I would need the extra power spring and this seems not to be the case? The spikes buffer on the website weighs in at 4.3oz which is just heavier then a H2 buffer if I recall correctly.
Thomas M-4
09-11-09, 17:56
I was shooting plain jane USGI mags with light green followers. I run PMAGs most of the time. The USGI's just haven't been shot since putting the ranger plates on so I used them instead.
Matt
I have had problems with GI mags with the green followers not locking my bolt back on the last shot. Fixed the problem by swapping in magpul gen3 followers.
I guess you might be crazier than me, but if this was my duty gun, I wouldnt stake things on "maybe it will work well".
Since I saw you had issues on page two, I figured id just say as well. I had two RRAs (prior to my LMTs, Noveskes, and COLT) one middy and one carbine. I probably shot well over 3000 rds through the carbine without any issue using basic NHMTG aluminum mags. Ammo was winchester white box and lake city 5.56. Obviously I could have staked everything, put in a heavier etractor spring and a f/a carrier, but the most important thing is to do the least amount of "upgrades" to a well functioning gun. Sometimes a stock gun is more reliable then a reliability upgraded gun. You just have to choose you mods very wisely.
I know I should not have started tinkering with it but I can't help my self. As far as what might work regarding the bcg....I have shot it now, it functioned fine. I believe that other factors caused my mentioned problems not my bcg. Also I have a Magpul class coming up with a posiblility of upwards of 1800 rounds in two days at least 1800 is what is required for the class. So I figure I'll find any problems out in those two days.
I have had problems with GI mags with the green followers not locking my bolt back on the last shot. Fixed the problem by swapping in magpul gen3 followers.
That could be what is causing my issues on the range yesterday. I'm going to try the buffer spring first and then go run all my mags USGI and PMAGs if it all functions then great. If the USGI fail me again once I have the right spring then I'll know what the problem is.
Thanks agains guys,
Matt
I think that is a good method. The buffer spring you have in there now is probably too strong and is throwing the bolt over the follower with too much force and it just slides over it. Put the regular size/rate spring back and give it a shot.
That could be what is causing my issues on the range yesterday. I'm going to try the buffer spring first and then go run all my mags USGI and PMAGs if it all functions then great. If the USGI fail me again once I have the right spring then I'll know what the problem is.
Thanks agains guys,
Matt
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